Negative calories ok for extremely obese people?
dan_loehr
Posts: 4
I am 29 years old and I started at about 350 lbs. I am now 317 and joined MFP Jan 5th @ 330 lbs. How do you feel about someone my size ending up with negative net calories for the day? I am eating at least 1200 calories but doing a lot of cardio. At first I could not do much but my endurance has built up and I can now do at least 45m on my stationary bike. At my weight I can burn over 1,000 calories in a day, easily and I know this diet and exercise plan can not last forever but I figure for a few more weeks it will be fine.
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while I have to say that is amazing but unsustainable weight loss. You rock!0
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Even if your body can burn all the energy you need out of raw fat all day long, you are still probably going to lose what muscle you have to the furnace, and become deficient in a wide variety of vital nutritional components. I'd recommend no lower than 800 net calories a day, if they are "perfect" whole foods (healthy fats, proteins, and fruit/vegetable carbs) rather than crap food.0
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Even if your body can burn all the energy you need out of raw fat all day long, you are still probably going to lose what muscle you have to the furnace, and become deficient in a wide variety of vital nutritional components. I'd recommend no lower than 800 net calories a day, if they are "perfect" whole foods (healthy fats, proteins, and fruit/vegetable carbs) rather than crap food.
Maybe not perfect food but def 95 percent of it should be the best choices you can make. I agree with the rest of this post 100 percent! You are going to lose the muscle before fat and because muscle burns fat the loss of it will actually hinder your weight loss. You are right about it not being a long term option. maybe for a quick 20 pounds it works but in the end a steady healthy weight loss is your best bet for overall success and an achieving long term goals!
Best of Luck!0 -
This sounds pretty extreme, I'd suggest getting professional advice if you are going to go down this path.0
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Have you considered a PSMF? That should help with the muscle loss a bit better0
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I would worry that your body might go into starvation mode and stall your weight loss. You have made such great progess that is would be a nightmare to have it stall out now. I think you should eat the calories you burn with exercise and maybe make your goal 1400.0
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I wouldn't suggest having a huge negative net every day, but having a negative net every now and then isn't going to hurt you. Last year I was pushing 300# and my trainer actually told me NOT to eat back my exercise calories and to consume AT LEAST 1,400 calories/day and up to 1,800 on days that I work out really hard. I'm a girl and I'm only 5'3'', so that's obviously going to work a little differently, and different things work for different people. As far as losing weight, you will lose some muscle - it's just the nature of the beast - so be sure to eat plenty of protein and do weight training, not just cardio. Cardio is great, but weight training helps you lose more inches and builds muscle, which ultimately is what really burns the fat. Best of luck to you! :drinker:0
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dont stick with negative calories because even at 1200 net calories you are gonna burn alot of fat my man..one thing you need to think of is your heart health...losing too fast sounds great but your heart which you know is a muscle is used to pumping hard to get the blood through especially to your legs..when you lose alot of fat real fast it doesnt give the heart muscle the abilility to learn to slow down a bit so make sure you are doing this with a doctor okay to keep you are okay0
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Same way for anybody with human DNA.I am 29 years old and I started at about 350 lbs. I am now 317 and joined MFP Jan 5th @ 330 lbs. How do you feel about someone my size ending up with negative net calories for the day? I am eating at least 1200 calories but doing a lot of cardio. At first I could not do much but my endurance has built up and I can now do at least 45m on my stationary bike. At my weight I can burn over 1,000 calories in a day, easily and I know this diet and exercise plan can not last forever but I figure for a few more weeks it will be fine.
You are setting yourself up for failure.
MFP has already figured out your total calories you need to eat per day to lose 1lb etc. a week. That's WITHOUT exercise. You'll notice that when you actually add exercise in, the calorie limit goes up. Why? Because it's telling you to eat your exercise calories. Large deficits aren't really good to do because while you will lose weight, what kind of weight will it be? In many cases you'll lose lean muscle tissue which LOWERS your metabolic rate even more. Then you have to eat even less to compensate for less of a calorie burn to continue to lose the same amount of weight each week.
Be efficient. Exercise hard and eat back the calories. The hard exercise will RAISE your metabolic rate and burn more fat at rest.0 -
I just wondered why you want to make this a temporary thing. Can you find a way to eat more and quit "dieting" so that you can continue losing weight at a healthy rate? It didn't go on in one month...so it's not coming off in a short time. Take your time...eat healthy and yeah exercise with things you can stay with...like walking, or swimming whatever. Don't sell yourself so short..yo yo dieting is a major health problem...it's just a bad thing to do to your body. Congrats on what you have lost tho!0
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You are fine for now, but should probably bump your total cals up to around 1500 and do a higher calorie day at least once a week. As long as you can sustain it anyway.0
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At your weight this might be a good idea http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/the-rapid-fat-loss-handbook
Normally I wouldn't recommend it, but it would be better for your body composition if you do low low calories this way0 -
For a few weeks you will be just fine as long as you're eating 1200 cals (even if you burn them off by the end of the day). And I think it's great that you're starting with cardio--once you lose some of the excess weight you'll be able to incorporate some weight training in. You seem down to earth because you realize that you can't continue such a low net cal number, but at the beginning of your journey, you'll be just fine. Keep up the great work! (I don't want to step on anyone's toes, but try not to take warnings of "starvation mode" seriously. The idea is based on a study in which participants were kept on an 800 cal diet, with poor nutrients for 6+ months. You're not depriving yourself in that way!)0
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Wow! I applaud your motivation! Your progress is really awesome.
But longterm, I would agree with others here that you are not eating enough to sustain your body in a healthful way. When the calculator takes into account your height, weight, age, the figure it comes up with represents the calories that your body needs to sustain it "at rest" -- that is, the calories needed to provide the energy to keep your organs functioning, to keep you breathing, your blood pumping, to keep your very cells surviving. So, I would think of the food as the fuel, and try to get the most nutrition possible out of the calories and to eat them all.
Also, studies have shown that severely restricting calories can set you on a path for your body forever requiring fewer calories. There was a recent article about this in the New York Times health section:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/01/magazine/tara-parker-pope-fat-trap.html
I believe that with your dedication and motivation, you will reach your goal!
What I'd hate to see is the new fit you having to eat only 1200 calories forever. When you could lose the weight more gradually and at the same time work on boosting your metabolism through exercise (strength training is especially good for this). In this scenario, I see the new fit you getting to eat 2,000 or more calories. And that sounds like a more robust life to me!
Whatever you choose to do, good luck with it!0 -
I started my diet at 397lbs and I had MANY MANY days negative. I think its perfectly acceptable. I however was under a doctors supervised program that met and took blood tests every so often along with blood pressure. We did this for about 16 weeks and I lost about 80 lbs.
For really big people, the game is a little different and most people treat you as if you are 200 lbs trying to lose 20 lbs or something. Its all percentages of weight loss, so while I definitely wouldnt eat less than 1200 calories or so for your size, a negative net day is not a bad thing because your body is hitting its fat stores to get what it needs.
If you ever feel like your really hungry or starving some days, you could probably eat back some of your excersise calories.0 -
I am 29 years old and I started at about 350 lbs. I am now 317 and joined MFP Jan 5th @ 330 lbs. How do you feel about someone my size ending up with negative net calories for the day? I am eating at least 1200 calories but doing a lot of cardio. At first I could not do much but my endurance has built up and I can now do at least 45m on my stationary bike. At my weight I can burn over 1,000 calories in a day, easily and I know this diet and exercise plan can not last forever but I figure for a few more weeks it will be fine.
Don't do it. When you start eating normally again someday, you'll gain unbelievably quickly.
Google some of those Medifast stories. gaining up to 3 lbs. a day once eating normally again. ugh ugh ugh.
Why do it anyway? You'll still lose weight on a normal amount of calories. Slow and steady wins the race.0 -
I started my diet at 397lbs and I had MANY MANY days negative. I think its perfectly acceptable. I however was under a doctors supervised program that met and took blood tests every so often along with blood pressure. We did this for about 16 weeks and I lost about 80 lbs.
For really big people, the game is a little different and most people treat you as if you are 200 lbs trying to lose 20 lbs or something. Its all percentages of weight loss, so while I definitely wouldnt eat less than 1200 calories or so for your size, a negative net day is not a bad thing because your body is hitting its fat stores to get what it needs.
If you ever feel like your really hungry or starving some days, you could probably eat back some of your excersise calories.
I did pretty much the same program, yesterday was my year anniversary, the key is when you go off the ultra low calorie is don't just jump back into maintenance eating calorie levels. It should be gradual, my first 6 months were ultra low, I lost about 125 lbs, then next month I upped my calories 100 to 200 a day, still lost about 2-3 lbs a week. For a month after that I raised it up another 100 or 200. I have been eating pretty regular and will still lose a lb or 2 a week. I'm still trying to lose though, I wanna lose another 16 lbs, but doing it gradually you are no longer feeling you're on a diet because under the supervision of a nutritionist, I have learned about the actual serving sizes and now make automatic healthy choices. It helps having a regular workout regiment. It's all about changing your lifestyle, I needed a very strict low calorie meal plan to help me realize I can do it on my own and maintain it when the time comes.0 -
Why not increase your calorie goal instead? 1200 sounds kind of low for someone at that weight.0
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You are doing GREAT! I appaud your efforts!!!! Stick with it!
As long as you feel good, I'm not concerned so much about the number of calories as I am about muscle mass, loose skin, and sustainability. Folks on the biggest loser burn a lot and look and feel great (mostly), but they do a lot of strength training as well. Obviously since you are very overweight, your body can live (in part) off your fat.
In my opinion the MFP folks tend to be paranoid about eating too few calories. Weight Watchers (with tons and tons of doctors on staff and no desire to hurt folks or get sued) allows people close to goal to go as low as 1000 calories (and not eat back their exercise calories). But Weight Watchers starts folks out at a much higher calorie intake and then lowers it slowly over time. (This makes the process easier and keeps the loss steady over time.)
The issues that concern me with your extreme pattern start are:
- muscle mass --> be sure to adopt a strength training regimine along with the cardio that you are doing
- loose skin --> the faster you lose, the less time your skin has to renew itself (hence the greater the possibility of loose skin (also drink lots of water and use moisturizer); core exercises help a great deal as well
- sustainability --> it is nice, when you are extremely obese, to slowly reduce your calories over time, so that you can keep losing at a constant rate (if you start out eating really low calories, your weight loss slows over time)
I'm so excited about what you're doing. Keep up the great work!0 -
Aren't males supposed to net a minimum of 1500 calories a day? 1200 is the recommended lowest number for females.0
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As stated that is likely unsustainable. For that matter the male minimum is 1500 calories net, not 1200. At your weight you should be eating substantially more. I have no idea what your Daily Calorie burn would be, but if you go to your Goals page you will see near the top on the right had side a number for Calories burned from Normal Daily Activity. That is what you would normally burn. You don't generally want the deficit to be larger that 1000 less than that per day without very close observation by medical professionals.0
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I honestly thinks its awesome but when you lose more weight and you get to a point of plateau what will you do? work out even more...because that 1000 is going to get harder and harder to burn...or eat less then the 1200 to get it going again? either way your hurting yourself in the long run ya know:) Good luck!I am 29 years old and I started at about 350 lbs. I am now 317 and joined MFP Jan 5th @ 330 lbs. How do you feel about someone my size ending up with negative net calories for the day? I am eating at least 1200 calories but doing a lot of cardio. At first I could not do much but my endurance has built up and I can now do at least 45m on my stationary bike. At my weight I can burn over 1,000 calories in a day, easily and I know this diet and exercise plan can not last forever but I figure for a few more weeks it will be fine.0 -
Im in the boat as you except im a girl lol. I Started on here Jan 6 at 303 pds. as of today im 289 i have lost 14 pds in one week. Im supposed to be at 1400 cals per day but after adding in exercise it goes up and its kinda hard to eat your exercise calories if your eating healthy stuff, most of the time I have 800-1000 calories left to eat at the end of the day. the first two days on here my "net" was -400, which is why i was probably having a killer headache that day, anyways i posted that topic on here and someone said that the net should be at least 1200. so the last few days i got my net in the 900-1200 area,
Also i dont want to lose that much weight so fast because i dont have to have loose skin if at all possible
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From what I've learned over the years, I'd have to agree with this reply most. It's definitely going to kick off your plan! Some of the other posters who've lost large amounts of weight probably speak from experience as well. You'd eventually want to get on a healthier plan. Definitely talk to your doctor and keep them informed of what you are doing. That way they can tell you how long you should keep it up. Could be best to do it just another month, but they might okay it up until a certain amount of weight is lost. Good luck! I can't wait to see the results!!!I started my diet at 397lbs and I had MANY MANY days negative. I think its perfectly acceptable. I however was under a doctors supervised program that met and took blood tests every so often along with blood pressure. We did this for about 16 weeks and I lost about 80 lbs.
For really big people, the game is a little different and most people treat you as if you are 200 lbs trying to lose 20 lbs or something. Its all percentages of weight loss, so while I definitely wouldnt eat less than 1200 calories or so for your size, a negative net day is not a bad thing because your body is hitting its fat stores to get what it needs.
If you ever feel like your really hungry or starving some days, you could probably eat back some of your excersise calories.0 -
You should eat 1-1.5grams of protein per lb of body weight, you need to eat enough calories otherwise your body will enter starvation mode. It won't eat away at the fat, but instead start hoarding it.
You don't need to eat 3000 calories but you should eat at least 1500.
Also you will burn fat faster if you lift weights. Cardio doesn't really build muscle which helps burn fat faster. Cardio is good for warm up and cool down, but really what you want to do is this-
5 reps, 5 sets, on 5-6 machines/exercises.
For example, lifting barbells, start with a lighter weight, do five reps, switch for one higher up, do five reps, increase weight 3more times (end weight should be managable for you)
As I've heard it said before, losing weight without putting on the muscle brings you into a whole nother world of problems. newbie-fitness.blogspot.com/2007/01/stripped-5x5.html
Pretty good blog. Don't be afraid to eat, just eat stuff that will give you energy. A guy your size should eat about a pound of lean protein a day. Protein=energy to fuel muscles which burn fat.0 -
That's the way to go.Check bodyrecomposition.com for that. Lyle McDonald - The Rapid Fat Loss Handbook. Modified PSMF. Feel free to add me. I'd be glad to help you with what I know.Have you considered a PSMF? That should help with the muscle loss a bit better0
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Two words:
Loose Skin
Take it slowly, don't try to go too fast or you'll have other issues to deal with at the other end.
The more methodically you go about it, granted it will be slower, the better the finished product at the end.0 -
I started my diet at 397lbs and I had MANY MANY days negative. I think its perfectly acceptable. I however was under a doctors supervised program that met and took blood tests every so often along with blood pressure. We did this for about 16 weeks and I lost about 80 lbs.
For really big people, the game is a little different and most people treat you as if you are 200 lbs trying to lose 20 lbs or something. Its all percentages of weight loss, so while I definitely wouldnt eat less than 1200 calories or so for your size, a negative net day is not a bad thing because your body is hitting its fat stores to get what it needs.
If you ever feel like your really hungry or starving some days, you could probably eat back some of your excersise calories.
Best advice I read here so far some other good mentions above him as well. You need to balance it all and make sustainable changes in intake lifestyle. Take your time and make choices you can stick with, It will keep it coming off 6 months and even a year from now. You can do it just keep movin forward. If you want some meal plans that have worked for me feel free to friend me as my diary is open.0 -
Everyone is different, so what works for one person may not work for the next. I have dropped 5 stone in 8 months by having large negative figures. Certainly didn't affect my muscles - I now cycle 40'ish miles a day (1000 per month/12,000 in 2011) and can comfortably do 100+ miles in a day0
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If you stop losing, eat more. It defies all logic and I'm still not over having to do it, but it works. Although I'm about to go back to 1200 again and see if it works before I start gaining back!
Oh, and in case no one said it, if you're running a deficit like that, maybe you should do so under a doctor's supervision. Your liver and such could be affected.0
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