The true cause of obesity

PaulS70
PaulS70 Posts: 70
edited November 8 in Health and Weight Loss
A famous researcher (Jean Mayer) once said... (paraphrasing)

The idea that overeating causes obesity is vacuously true, but is no more enlightening than saying that over-drinking causes alcoholism. We need to ask why does the person over-drink?

To solve our weight problems we need to find out WHY we overeat. It has to be more than just boredom or emotions or stress.

Here are 4 different theories I have come across. Please discuss and feel free to add your own.

1.) THE FAT LAZY SLOB THEORY - We simply eat too much because we have no willpower. Our character has devolved and we are unable to resist foods that make us fat. We are also dumb and do not know which foods are fattening and continue to eat them despite their effect on our health. On top of that if we would just get off our lazy butts and exercise the overeating would disappear or be offset by "burning calories"

2.) THE TOXIC ENVIRONMENT - Junk food is everywhere, and has become ingrained in our culture. We cant help but overeat because the junk is such a part of our environment that using it is as inescapable as using toothpaste or deodorant.

3.) HYPER-PALATABILITY / MENTAL ADDICTION - We have altered food stuffs to the point where they are so delicious and so tasty that they effect "reward centers" in our brains that cause us to become chemically addicted to the foods much like drugs. We need the delicious junk food to comfort us and feed the addiction.

4.) HORMONE BLOCKAGE / INTERNAL STARVATION - The junk food that we eat causes the normal hormonal metabolic process that our body uses to become dysfunctional and unregulated. Our bodies lose the ability to transport nutrients to our muscles and organs. With the nutrients unable to get to our muscles and organs our bodies continuously send out hunger signals as they are "internally starving" and thus biologically we need tons of extra calories to break through the "hormone blockage"
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Replies

  • Sidesteal
    Sidesteal Posts: 5,510 Member
    Lack of understanding of energy intake vs energy needs.

    Now, do I think that everyone should count calories? Of course not. But I DO think that there's a significant portion of people who do not understand how energy balance dictates weight change, and knowing this could help people either lose, or not get that way to begin with.
  • Olive32214
    Olive32214 Posts: 467 Member
    bump
  • fteale
    fteale Posts: 5,310 Member
    I think there is some mileage in all those theories, but the main one I think is that biologically we have evolved over hundreds of thousands of years to seek out high calorie food because for most of human evolution food has been in short supply. It is only in the last 60 years or so that food has been so easy to come by and it takes more than 60 years to fight 300,000 years of evolution.

    Added to that we are meant to have to work hard physically, most people don't any more, so we have had to substitute artificial exercise to try to counteract the inherent laziness of our modern lifestyles.


    I don't think it's any great mystery, it's just something that everyone in the western world should be taught in school.
  • FORIANN
    FORIANN Posts: 273 Member
    I tend to agree. Since I've started counting calories I have most definitely gone over on occasion, but I see the energy value of the food I'm selecting easier and can almost guess within a couple of hundred calories how much I'm having when I eat a meal. I don't think strict calorie counting is the end all be all of a healthy lifestyle, but being aware of what you're choosing to eat does impact the choices you make.
  • PaulS70
    PaulS70 Posts: 70
    Lack of understanding of energy intake vs energy needs.

    Now, do I think that everyone should count calories? Of course not. But I DO think that there's a significant portion of people who do not understand how energy balance dictates weight change, and knowing this could help people either lose, or not get that way to begin with.

    I agree that a lot of people do not understand how much they need to eat. What puzzles me is how does every other animal do it? With ample food around you don't get fat lions and fat deer and fat cheetahs. How do they know how much they need?
  • Sidesteal
    Sidesteal Posts: 5,510 Member


    I agree that a lot of people do not understand how much they need to eat. What puzzles me is how does every other animal do it? With ample food around you don't get fat lions and fat deer and fat cheetahs. How do they know how much they need?

    We don't have to chase a hamburger through a forest and tackle it and then break it's neck before we consume it. I also haven't seen a lion order his deer-meat online while watching ESPN.

    Drastic energy expenditure differences there.
  • fteale
    fteale Posts: 5,310 Member
    Lack of understanding of energy intake vs energy needs.

    Now, do I think that everyone should count calories? Of course not. But I DO think that there's a significant portion of people who do not understand how energy balance dictates weight change, and knowing this could help people either lose, or not get that way to begin with.

    I agree that a lot of people do not understand how much they need to eat. What puzzles me is how does every other animal do it? With ample food around you don't get fat lions and fat deer and fat cheetahs. How do they know how much they need?

    We aren't wild animals. You see a lot of fat dogs and cats.
  • servilia
    servilia Posts: 3,452 Member


    I agree that a lot of people do not understand how much they need to eat. What puzzles me is how does every other animal do it? With ample food around you don't get fat lions and fat deer and fat cheetahs. How do they know how much they need?

    We don't have to chase a hamburger through a forest and tackle it and then break it's neck before we consume it. I also haven't seen a lion order his deer-meat online while watching ESPN.

    Drastic energy expenditure differences there.

    So true!!
  • kateroot
    kateroot Posts: 435
    I think the "true cause of obesity" is different for everybody. Any one of your theories, and any other theory out there, can most likely be applied to someone's experience. In general, it's overeating and under-exercising combined with eating too much of the wrong things. I know for me, my weight comes on when I eat refined carbs, added sugars, etc., even if I'm eating low-calorie. Someone else may be able to eat cookies all day but lose weight as long as they're in a calorie deficit.

    Honestly, I think it's all very individual.
  • PaulS70
    PaulS70 Posts: 70
    Yes, I agree that working for it makes a difference.

    I just really think that there is more too it than "animals get more exercise" I have read plenty of articles about animal trials with ad-libitum diets where the subjects didn't get fat and weren't working for their food. How did these animals know when to stop?

    Dogs and cats don't get fat until they start eating our food, or tons of the processed crap we make into cheap pet food.

    There has to be something to a properly functioning hunger/satiation process that is not mental. It can't be just "knowing how much fuel you need."
  • Sidesteal
    Sidesteal Posts: 5,510 Member
    Yes, I agree that working for it makes a difference.

    I just really think that there is more too it than "animals get more exercise" I have read plenty of articles about animal trials with ad-libitum diets where the subjects didn't get fat and weren't working for their food. How did these animals know when to stop?

    Dogs and cats don't get fat until they start eating our food, or tons of the processed crap we make into cheap pet food.

    There has to be something to a properly functioning hunger/satiation process that is not mental. It can't be just "knowing how much fuel you need."

    I'm not implying that it's JUST "knowing how much fuel you need". I'm saying that I think it's one major component to why SOME people are obese.

    Dogs and Cats DO get fat eating just dog and cat food if they have an owner who continually overfeeds them.
  • servilia
    servilia Posts: 3,452 Member
    Yes, I agree that working for it makes a difference.

    I just really think that there is more too it than "animals get more exercise" I have read plenty of articles about animal trials with ad-libitum diets where the subjects didn't get fat and weren't working for their food. How did these animals know when to stop?

    Dogs and cats don't get fat until they start eating our food, or tons of the processed crap we make into cheap pet food.

    There has to be something to a properly functioning hunger/satiation process that is not mental. It can't be just "knowing how much fuel you need."

    Maybe it's that with animals, it purely IS a physical trigger that tell them when to stop and they don't have the emotional aspect to deal with.. There are a lot of people for whom emotions override their natural satiety signals.. when I was down and out I know I ignored them.. and just kept eating because it felt good. Hence the weight gain. In addition, we have more variety and I would argue, yummier food LOL and it's been shown that people will eat more of a meal when it's composed of a variety of foods.
  • SoulNeedsBeauty
    SoulNeedsBeauty Posts: 154 Member
    I think there is some mileage in all those theories, but the main one I think is that biologically we have evolved over hundreds of thousands of years to seek out high calorie food because for most of human evolution food has been in short supply. It is only in the last 60 years or so that food has been so easy to come by and it takes more than 60 years to fight 300,000 years of evolution.

    Added to that we are meant to have to work hard physically, most people don't any more, so we have had to substitute artificial exercise to try to counteract the inherent laziness of our modern lifestyles.


    I don't think it's any great mystery, it's just something that everyone in the western world should be taught in school.

    I agree with you on everything you said right there^^
  • sunfyrejade
    sunfyrejade Posts: 29 Member
    I think that part of all your theories hold true for most people in some combination. The basic lack of understanding of calories needed v. calories ingested is the fundamental problem in all overweight individuals it just is a matter of why we don't pay attention to what we're eating or if we're full or not.

    Also, being lazy one day makes it easier to be lazy the next day and so on. Once you fill yourself with bad foods/bad habits it is easier to continue those. I know days/weeks when I get my exercise in I feel better and more apt to do it the next day wheras on days/weeks when I don't get it in I am more apt to skip it again the next day so our behaviors tend to follow a pattern.
  • PaulS70
    PaulS70 Posts: 70

    I'm not implying that it's JUST "knowing how much fuel you need". I'm saying that I think it's one major component to why SOME people are obese.

    Dogs and Cats DO get fat eating just dog and cat food if they have an owner who continually overfeeds them.

    Not getting mad at you, just trying to open up thought to something other than "calories in calories out / everyone's different."

    I'm starting to think that we give too much credit to the psychological and not enough credit to the physiological.

    We don't know that if the owner of the dog fed the dog its natural diet without the ground up corn gluten and whole grains and various other things that dogs don't eat, the dog may very well just stop eating when its nutrient needs are satisfied.
  • SoulNeedsBeauty
    SoulNeedsBeauty Posts: 154 Member
    BTW, be careful when using the word "true" , especially in biology and scientific world in general.
  • PaulS70
    PaulS70 Posts: 70
    BTW, be careful when using the word "true" , especially in biology and scientific world in general.


    Sorry didn't have the quote in front of me. Had to paraphrase... Point taken
  • Sidesteal
    Sidesteal Posts: 5,510 Member

    Not getting mad at you, just trying to open up thought to something other than "calories in calories out / everyone's different."

    All good, I'm using caps lock because I haven't figured out how to boldface/italicize. I'm not upset in the least.
    I'm starting to think that we give too much credit to the psychological and not enough credit to the physiological.

    i think there's probably a laundry list of reasons and they each contribute to varying degrees from individual to individual. The root cause being energy balance.
  • jweidner33
    jweidner33 Posts: 83 Member
    Lack of understanding of energy intake vs energy needs.

    Now, do I think that everyone should count calories? Of course not. But I DO think that there's a significant portion of people who do not understand how energy balance dictates weight change, and knowing this could help people either lose, or not get that way to begin with.

    This is me in a nut shell.
  • sunfyrejade
    sunfyrejade Posts: 29 Member

    i think there's probably a laundry list of reasons and they each contribute to varying degrees from individual to individual. The root cause being energy balance.

    True! Just because a person doesn't understand why there is a lack of balance between energy in and energy out doesn't mean it isn't the reason. We just have to figure out why our in/out is messed up.
  • snookumss
    snookumss Posts: 1,451 Member
    Lack of understanding of energy intake vs energy needs.

    Now, do I think that everyone should count calories? Of course not. But I DO think that there's a significant portion of people who do not understand how energy balance dictates weight change, and knowing this could help people either lose, or not get that way to begin with.


    Exactly Sidesteal. If I had been informed of all the calorie stuff in high school, there is no way I would have ever become obese. In fact, I think I would have been much healthier all along. I had no idea, it wasn't until I discovered MFP and started being able to closely look at the foods I was eating. I think that we should have a nutrition course in high school, so that people would be informed before it gets too bad.
  • PaulS70
    PaulS70 Posts: 70

    True! Just because a person doesn't understand why there is a lack of balance between energy in and energy out doesn't mean it isn't the reason. We just have to figure out why our in/out is messed up.

    This is exactly what I was trying ask with the original post... Why is our in/out messed up? Why do we overeat?

    That's why I used the term "vacuously true" which may have been a misquote, but anyway...

    In other words you must have improper energy balance to be overweight, but how and why do we get there?
  • UsedToBeHusky
    UsedToBeHusky Posts: 15,228 Member
    I can accept your first three theories, but I have to reject the last one. I reject any philosophy that treats "junk" food as if it were some foreign matter that our bodies somehow can't handle. Yes, additives have altered the nature of our diets dramatically, but additives have not chemically altered the food. Food is still food. Nutritional values vary, but if it is identified as food, whether it be healthy or "junk" it is still food. I think that viewing "junk" food as junk instead of food actually fosters an unhealthy relationship with food. As if it is somehow the food's fault that we are fat. We have to take responsibility for our own choices, and I think that blaming any kind of food is blame-shifting. Instead of taking responsibility for the choices that made us fat, we blame the restaurants, food distributors, and the government for not protecting us from the "junk", but essentially, it was OUR lack of self-control when it came to eating the nutritionally defecient food that made us fat.
  • Sidesteal
    Sidesteal Posts: 5,510 Member
    I can accept your first three theories, but I have to reject the last one. I reject any philosophy that treats "junk" food as if it were some foreign matter that our bodies somehow can't handle. Yes, additives have altered the nature of our diets dramatically, but additives have not chemically altered the food. Food is still food. Nutritional values vary, but if it is identified as food, whether it be healthy or "junk" it is still food. I think that viewing "junk" food as junk instead of food actually fosters an unhealthy relationship with food. As if it is somehow the food's fault that we are fat. We have to take responsibility for our own choices, and I think that blaming any kind of food is blame-shifting. Instead of taking responsibility for the choices that made us fat, we blame the restaurants, food distributors, and the government for not protecting us from the "junk", but essentially, it was OUR lack of self-control when it came to eating the nutritionally defecient food that made us fat.

    Great post.
  • Long2bme
    Long2bme Posts: 16 Member
    We overeat because of the vast amounts of food out there. We eat non foods such as all the processed items in the interior isles of the grocery store.

    50 yrs ago we did not have fast food or the volume of grocery store choices we have today. We have not evolved enough to listen to our bodies, we listen instead to our brain sensory cues of I see it I want it, I smell it I want it and fill our mouths with foods that are not health supporting.
  • PaulS70
    PaulS70 Posts: 70
    I can accept your first three theories, but I have to reject the last one. I reject any philosophy that treats "junk" food as if it were some foreign matter that our bodies somehow can't handle. Yes, additives have altered the nature of our diets dramatically, but additives have not chemically altered the food. Food is still food. Nutritional values vary, but if it is identified as food, whether it be healthy or "junk" it is still food. I think that viewing "junk" food as junk instead of food actually fosters an unhealthy relationship with food. As if it is somehow the food's fault that we are fat. We have to take responsibility for our own choices, and I think that blaming any kind of food is blame-shifting. Instead of taking responsibility for the choices that made us fat, we blame the restaurants, food distributors, and the government for not protecting us from the "junk", but essentially, it was OUR lack of self-control when it came to eating the nutritionally defecient food that made us fat.

    I suppose I should clarify...

    None of these theories are mine. I have read them from various researchers, doctors, scientists etc.

    I may have not described #4 as well as possible and have not represented exactly the thoughts of the theorists. It wasn't specifically junk food or food additives that cause the "hormone blockage," it could very well be too much food, or bad genetics or stress... who knows. Its mostly a proposed mechanism for overeating.
  • sunfyrejade
    sunfyrejade Posts: 29 Member
    I can accept your first three theories, but I have to reject the last one. I reject any philosophy that treats "junk" food as if it were some foreign matter that our bodies somehow can't handle. Yes, additives have altered the nature of our diets dramatically, but additives have not chemically altered the food. Food is still food. Nutritional values vary, but if it is identified as food, whether it be healthy or "junk" it is still food. I think that viewing "junk" food as junk instead of food actually fosters an unhealthy relationship with food. As if it is somehow the food's fault that we are fat. We have to take responsibility for our own choices, and I think that blaming any kind of food is blame-shifting. Instead of taking responsibility for the choices that made us fat, we blame the restaurants, food distributors, and the government for not protecting us from the "junk", but essentially, it was OUR lack of self-control when it came to eating the nutritionally defecient food that made us fat.

    One caveat I would add to this is...depending on your family background you may have been raised with unhealthy habits that are in fact your parents fault but once you reach a certain age it is your responsibility to educate yourself and fix these habits. Case in point, I was raised drinking soda to the point where I was up to 3L a day, it was accepted and natural in my house. Once I moved out and grew up, I educated myself and made a different choice but when I was a kid I didn't know better and followed my parents example.
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 10,268 Member
    It would help if the population knew what a portion looked like.
  • Pollyfleming
    Pollyfleming Posts: 147 Member
    I'm going to add that the shame factor of being overweight has been diminished over the last thirty years and our own perception of weight has changed. When I was growing up, there was one 'fat' kid in school and it was horrible for her. When I gained a little weight in elementary school, my mom immediately started shaming me into losing weight. At school the kids called me 'fatty' and all sorts of names. Even my teachers would tease me. I weighed less than 100 pounds and I was just under 5 feet. Today, I wouldn't be considered fat at all. I am not advocating going back to shaming because it was horrible but I do think it kept me in line.
    The other thing about the shame issue is our ability to get high calorie food anonymously without fear of reproach--and by that I mean in drive-thru fast food places. Thirty years ago there were fewer drive thrus for us to binge on. A lot of my kids' friends put on weight once they could drive and not because they were walking less (parents where I live drive their kids everywhere) but because suddenly they can go to McDonald's or Wendy's or Jack in the Box or Del Taco at anytime and they go A LOT.
  • Florawanda
    Florawanda Posts: 283 Member
    We have an obesity epidemic in UK at the moment, and part of it may be down to lack of knowledge of just how many calories are contained in fast-food, now so readily available. In wartime Britain, because of food rationing, which went on into the 50s, most adults were pretty healthy. Meat was in short supply, so people supplemented their ration with unrationed offal, like liver, and with lots of veggies; sugar and sweets were rationed, and Coca Cola did not then exist over here (though I do remember an American serviceman in the 1940s giving us a huge box of 'candy' - my eyes were on stalks! I can remember the careful cutting of a rare Mars Bar into 3 pieces between my 2 brothers and me... he who cut, got the last piece! When sweet rationing finally ended when I was 11, I fear I never looked back!

    Add to this the added lethargy in getting out to exercise that we are teaching our children. 25 years ago, kids would play out much more, ride their bikes around the neighbourhood, and walk to and from school. For all sorts of reasons (e.g. stranger-fear, time pressures, TV and computer games) this has changed considerably.

    But there is also the psychological element ... when you were hurt as a child, were you given, as well as a kiss and a cuddle, a sweet? Look how, if people want to give you a reward, they take you out for a meal, or give you choccies. Birthdays and any kind of celebration always involves food of some sort. So when we are emotionally low, we have learned to turn to 'comfort' food.

    The only way to break this cycle is to teach our children about other rewards, and teach them differently about food values and exercise. My long-since grown-up children were taught early on the words, protein, carbohydrate and vitamin, and also knew that they might get scurvy if they didn't eat enough fresh fruit and vegetables! They only had water or milk to drink, except on special occasions, and chocolate and sweets were bought with their limited pocket money.
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