The truth and facts about protein

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Replies

  • becoming_a_new_me
    becoming_a_new_me Posts: 1,860 Member
    I stand by my previous statement of : "I do notice that the people who have a problem with this data are bodybuilders, muscle-bulking, or are heavily athletic. This blog was not geared towards those people. The "average" person is who this was geared towards, and is factual. I even had my doctor read the information, and he agrees that for the normal person, the data is sound."
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 10,152 Member
    I stand by my previous statement of : "I do notice that the people who have a problem with this data are bodybuilders, muscle-bulking, or are heavily athletic. This blog was not geared towards those people. The "average" person is who this was geared towards, and is factual. I even had my doctor read the information, and he agrees that for the normal person, the data is sound."
    Obviously then, you may need to update your blog to include all demographics, if your just going to say that you stand by what you say . I suspect some of the people your referring to, do actually exercise with varying degrees of intensity and type, no?Maybe they're all couch potato's but somehow I suspect they're not. For protein I suggest you look at some of the papers by Dr Peter Lemon, for starters, doesn't get much better than that and you will not only be helping yourself but the people that read your blog.
  • becoming_a_new_me
    becoming_a_new_me Posts: 1,860 Member
    I stand by my previous statement of : "I do notice that the people who have a problem with this data are bodybuilders, muscle-bulking, or are heavily athletic. This blog was not geared towards those people. The "average" person is who this was geared towards, and is factual. I even had my doctor read the information, and he agrees that for the normal person, the data is sound."
    Obviously then, you may need to update your blog to include all demographics, if your just going to say that you stand by what you say . I suspect some of the people your referring to, do actually exercise with varying degrees of intensity and type, no?Maybe they're all couch potato's but somehow I suspect they're not. For protein I suggest you look at some of the papers by Dr Peter Lemon, for starters, doesn't get much better than that and you will not only be helping yourself but the people that read your blog.

    The normal weight loss person is not a couch potato, nor are they extreme. A high-end of 30% is perfectly acceptable and safe for the layperson. Most information that I have seen points to potential dangers of a long-term high-protein diet, so I am not going to modify the blog to conform to a few minority to do not subscribe to mainstream facts. I will put a disclaimer that the information contained is for the average person, and anyone who is under a doctor's care should listen to the physician. I won't condone excessive-protein diets because a half a dozen of you feel free to attack the facts. We could get into a p!ss!ng contest all day, but what it boils down to is the typical person can benefit from the facts.
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 10,152 Member
    I stand by my previous statement of : "I do notice that the people who have a problem with this data are bodybuilders, muscle-bulking, or are heavily athletic. This blog was not geared towards those people. The "average" person is who this was geared towards, and is factual. I even had my doctor read the information, and he agrees that for the normal person, the data is sound."
    Obviously then, you may need to update your blog to include all demographics, if your just going to say that you stand by what you say . I suspect some of the people your referring to, do actually exercise with varying degrees of intensity and type, no?Maybe they're all couch potato's but somehow I suspect they're not. For protein I suggest you look at some of the papers by Dr Peter Lemon, for starters, doesn't get much better than that and you will not only be helping yourself but the people that read your blog.

    The normal weight loss person is not a couch potato, nor are they extreme. A high-end of 30% is perfectly acceptable and safe for the layperson. Most information that I have seen points to potential dangers of a long-term high-protein diet, so I am not going to modify the blog to conform to a few minority to do not subscribe to mainstream facts. I will put a disclaimer that the information contained is for the average person, and anyone who is under a doctor's care should listen to the physician. I won't condone excessive-protein diets because a half a dozen of you feel free to attack the facts. We could get into a p!ss!ng contest all day, but what it boils down to is the typical person can benefit from the facts.
    Protein requirements shouldn't be based on a percentage, but on lean mass. I'm sure we would all loike to see these long term high protein diet dangers, actual studies I mean, seriously i don't mean to be rude.
  • becoming_a_new_me
    becoming_a_new_me Posts: 1,860 Member
    I stand by my previous statement of : "I do notice that the people who have a problem with this data are bodybuilders, muscle-bulking, or are heavily athletic. This blog was not geared towards those people. The "average" person is who this was geared towards, and is factual. I even had my doctor read the information, and he agrees that for the normal person, the data is sound."
    Obviously then, you may need to update your blog to include all demographics, if your just going to say that you stand by what you say . I suspect some of the people your referring to, do actually exercise with varying degrees of intensity and type, no?Maybe they're all couch potato's but somehow I suspect they're not. For protein I suggest you look at some of the papers by Dr Peter Lemon, for starters, doesn't get much better than that and you will not only be helping yourself but the people that read your blog.

    The normal weight loss person is not a couch potato, nor are they extreme. A high-end of 30% is perfectly acceptable and safe for the layperson. Most information that I have seen points to potential dangers of a long-term high-protein diet, so I am not going to modify the blog to conform to a few minority to do not subscribe to mainstream facts. I will put a disclaimer that the information contained is for the average person, and anyone who is under a doctor's care should listen to the physician. I won't condone excessive-protein diets because a half a dozen of you feel free to attack the facts. We could get into a p!ss!ng contest all day, but what it boils down to is the typical person can benefit from the facts.
    Protein requirements shouldn't be based on a percentage, but on lean mass. I'm sure we would all loike to see these long term high protein diet dangers, actual studies I mean, seriously i don't mean to be rude.

    I have been reading Dr. Lemon's information, and every single paper that I have read speaks of "strength athletes" and "endurance athletes' and does not seem to have any studies published on the normal person who is trying to simply lose weight and become more active. The highest end of recommendations is "0.55-0.64 grams of protein per pound of body mass per day" for endurance athletes. This equates to 115g protein for a 180lb person. He does not recommend going over 2g protein per kg of weight, which for a 180lb person would be 164g protein because there is no data showing that it is safe. Assuming that this person is under a 2400 calorie per day diet, then the high end of 30% would be 180g of protein. Therefore your Dr. Lemon is actually making the same recommendations that I did in my blog.

    source: http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/nutrition-diet-articles/5337-athletic-requirements-dietary-protein.html
  • carrie_eggo
    carrie_eggo Posts: 1,396 Member
    Protein requirements shouldn't be based on a percentage, but on lean mass.

    ^^Agree.

    Here's a good explanation. http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/diet-percentages-part-2.html
  • becoming_a_new_me
    becoming_a_new_me Posts: 1,860 Member
    Protein requirements shouldn't be based on a percentage, but on lean mass.

    ^^Agree.

    Here's a good explanation. http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/diet-percentages-part-2.html

    This article refers to strength training and endurance athletes, and even still Dr. Lemon does not recommend going over 2g protein per 1kg of body mass. Read my previous response to this.
  • Acg67
    Acg67 Posts: 12,142 Member

    The normal weight loss person is not a couch potato, nor are they extreme. A high-end of 30% is perfectly acceptable and safe for the layperson. Most information that I have seen points to potential dangers of a long-term high-protein diet, so I am not going to modify the blog to conform to a few minority to do not subscribe to mainstream facts. I will put a disclaimer that the information contained is for the average person, and anyone who is under a doctor's care should listen to the physician. I won't condone excessive-protein diets because a half a dozen of you feel free to attack the facts. We could get into a p!ss!ng contest all day, but what it boils down to is the typical person can benefit from the facts.

    Please present peer reviewed literature showing that a diet getting more then 30% of daily kcal from protein is dangerous and causes the problems you listed, if your statements are indeed "facts" you should have no trouble pulling it up. Although I already presented peer reviewed literature that goes against everything you've said
  • koosdel
    koosdel Posts: 3,317 Member
    Protein requirements shouldn't be based on a percentage, but on lean mass.

    ^^Agree.

    Here's a good explanation. http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/diet-percentages-part-2.html

    This article refers to strength training and endurance athletes, and even still Dr. Lemon does not recommend going over 2g protein per 1kg of body mass. Read my previous response to this.

    Maybe this should also be edited from your blog- " Those who eat a high-protein diet are trying to build muscle mass, however no scientific study has proven this to be accurate."

    Another idea would be to change "truth and facts" to "my opinion". There would be much less conflict.
  • carrie_eggo
    carrie_eggo Posts: 1,396 Member
    Protein requirements shouldn't be based on a percentage, but on lean mass.

    ^^Agree.

    Here's a good explanation. http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/diet-percentages-part-2.html


    This article refers to strength training and endurance athletes, and even still Dr. Lemon does not recommend going over 2g protein per 1kg of body mass. Read my previous response to this.


    Did you read the article?

    Percentages mean nothing unless you also know how many calories that person is eating.
  • becoming_a_new_me
    becoming_a_new_me Posts: 1,860 Member
    I'm actually dropping this subject - those of you responding will find a way to poke holes into everything I say. Again...I use words such as "may" and "could be". You quote bodybuilding magazines and personal trainers. Lets agree to disagree and hopefully you people will realize that you are the 1% of the weight loss crowd. The normally active person does not need to overdose on protein.
  • DrG3n3
    DrG3n3 Posts: 467 Member
    I'm not a bodybuilder by any means, and I consume more than 30% protein some days. I guess I'll just wait to see if I keel over :(
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 10,152 Member
    I stand by my previous statement of : "I do notice that the people who have a problem with this data are bodybuilders, muscle-bulking, or are heavily athletic. This blog was not geared towards those people. The "average" person is who this was geared towards, and is factual. I even had my doctor read the information, and he agrees that for the normal person, the data is sound."
    Obviously then, you may need to update your blog to include all demographics, if your just going to say that you stand by what you say . I suspect some of the people your referring to, do actually exercise with varying degrees of intensity and type, no?Maybe they're all couch potato's but somehow I suspect they're not. For protein I suggest you look at some of the papers by Dr Peter Lemon, for starters, doesn't get much better than that and you will not only be helping yourself but the people that read your blog.

    The normal weight loss person is not a couch potato, nor are they extreme. A high-end of 30% is perfectly acceptable and safe for the layperson. Most information that I have seen points to potential dangers of a long-term high-protein diet, so I am not going to modify the blog to conform to a few minority to do not subscribe to mainstream facts. I will put a disclaimer that the information contained is for the average person, and anyone who is under a doctor's care should listen to the physician. I won't condone excessive-protein diets because a half a dozen of you feel free to attack the facts. We could get into a p!ss!ng contest all day, but what it boils down to is the typical person can benefit from the facts.
    Protein requirements shouldn't be based on a percentage, but on lean mass. I'm sure we would all loike to see these long term high protein diet dangers, actual studies I mean, seriously i don't mean to be rude.

    Assuming that this person is under a 2400 calorie per day diet, then the high end of 30% would be 180g of protein. Therefore your Dr. Lemon is actually making the same recommendations that I did in my blog.

    source: http://www.uk-muscle.co.uk/nutrition-diet-articles/5337-athletic-requirements-dietary-protein.html
    Actually your blog says that for a 180 lb person that they should eat 8'gs of protein for every 20 lbs of body weight which is 72g....big difference I would say
  • Acg67
    Acg67 Posts: 12,142 Member
    I'm actually dropping this subject - those of you responding will find a way to poke holes into everything I say. Again...I use words such as "may" and "could be". You quote bodybuilding magazines and personal trainers. Lets agree to disagree and hopefully you people will realize that you are the 1% of the weight loss crowd. The normally active person does not need to overdose on protein.

    You're right no one needs to OD on protein, however it will not harm them like you said it will. You seemed to have glossed over everything i have posted, which was not quoting bodybuilding mags or trainers. Also you may have no idea what you're talking about and you could be using crappy sources to base your information on

    In another thread you said you work in the nutrition field, may i ask what it is you do in the field of nutrition?
  • Truth and fact about protein...what a joke.
  • chrisdavey
    chrisdavey Posts: 9,834 Member
    Since when is a typical gp more knowledgeable on nutrition than peer reviewed studies by some of the to nutritionists & dieticians?
  • Sublog
    Sublog Posts: 1,296 Member

    Is there one peer reviewed study in all of those links are those just articles? I mean, seriously. Bodybuilding.com has a ton of mis-information articles on their main site. Not sure why, but everyone knows this already.

    I'll link this article.

    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/protein-controversies.html

    The author wrote this book:

    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/the-protein-book

    This article has these references:

    References:

    Martin WF et. al. Dietary protein intake and renal function. Nutr Metab (2005) 2: 25.
    Millward DJ. Optimal intakes of protein in the human diet. Proc Nutr Soc. (1999) 58(2): 403-13.
    Poortmans JR and Dellalieux O. Do regular high protein diets have potential health risks on kidney function in athletes? Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. (2000) 10(1):28-38.
    Dawson-Hughes B. Calcium and protein in bone health. Proc Nutr Soc. (2003) 62(2): 505-9.
    Bonjour JP. Dietary protein: an essential nutrient for bone health. J Am Coll Nutr. (2005) 24(6 Suppl): 526S-36S.
    Massey LK. Dietary animal and plant protein and human bone health: a whole foods approach. J Nutr. (2003) 133(3):862S-865S.
    Dawson-Hughes B. Interaction of dietary calcium and protein in bone health in humans. J Nutr. (2003) 133(3):852S-854S.
    Frassetto L et. al. Diet, evolution and aging–the pathophysiologic effects of the post-agricultural inversion of the potassium-to-sodium and base-to-chloride ratios in the human diet. Eur J Nutr. (2001) 40(5):200-13.
    Wiederkehr M, Krapf R. Metabolic and endocrine effects of metabolic acidosis in humans. Swiss Med Wkly. (2001) 131(9-10):127-32.
    Barzel US and LK Massey Excess dietary protein can adversely affect bone. J Nutr. (1998) 128(6):1051-3.
    Fogelholm M. Dairy products, meat and sports performance. Sports Med. (2003) 33(8):615-31.
    Sabate J. The contribution of vegetarian diets to human health. Forum Nutr. (2003) 56:218-20. 13. Li D et. al. Lean meat and heart health. Asia Pac J Clin Nutr. (2005) 14(2):113-9.
    Hodgson JM et. al. Increased lean red meat intake does not elevate markers of oxidative stress and inflammation in humans. J Nutr. (2007) 137(2):363-7. Links
    Biesalski HK.Meat and cancer: meat as a component of a healthy diet.
    Eur J Clin Nutr. (2002) 56 Suppl 1:S2-11.
    Hodgson JM et. al. Partial substitution of carbohydrate intake with protein intake from lean red meat lowers blood pressure in hypertensive persons.Am J Clin Nutr. (2006) 83(4):780-7.
    Hill M. Meat, cancer and dietary advice to the public. Eur J Clin Nutr. (2002) 56 Suppl 1:S36-41
    Elmadfa I, Freisling H. Fat intake, diet variety and health promotion. Forum Nutr. (2005) (57):1-10.
  • Since when is a typical gp more knowledgeable on nutrition than peer reviewed studies by some of the to nutritionists & dieticians?

    Everyone seems to think so. My doctor actually told me that she would not give me detailed nutrition advice because she di not know. I respect her so much!

    I am a nutrition major and am confused at where a lot of these "truths" come from. We sure aren't taught that here o.O
  • IronSmasher
    IronSmasher Posts: 3,908 Member

    Thanks

    Is there one peer reviewed study in all of those links are those just articles? I mean, seriously. Bodybuilding.com has a ton of mis-information articles on their main site. Not sure why, but everyone knows this already.

    I'll link this article.

    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/protein-controversies.html

    The author wrote this book:

    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/the-protein-book

    This article has these references:

    References:

    Martin WF et. al. Dietary protein intake and renal function. Nutr Metab (2005) 2: 25.
    Millward DJ. Optimal intakes of protein in the human diet. Proc Nutr Soc. (1999) 58(2): 403-13.
    Poortmans JR and Dellalieux O. Do regular high protein diets have potential health risks on kidney function in athletes? Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. (2000) 10(1):28-38.
    Dawson-Hughes B. Calcium and protein in bone health. Proc Nutr Soc. (2003) 62(2): 505-9.
    Bonjour JP. Dietary protein: an essential nutrient for bone health. J Am Coll Nutr. (2005) 24(6 Suppl): 526S-36S.
    Massey LK. Dietary animal and plant protein and human bone health: a whole foods approach. J Nutr. (2003) 133(3):862S-865S.
    Dawson-Hughes B. Interaction of dietary calcium and protein in bone health in humans. J Nutr. (2003) 133(3):852S-854S.
    Frassetto L et. al. Diet, evolution and aging–the pathophysiologic effects of the post-agricultural inversion of the potassium-to-sodium and base-to-chloride ratios in the human diet. Eur J Nutr. (2001) 40(5):200-13.
    Wiederkehr M, Krapf R. Metabolic and endocrine effects of metabolic acidosis in humans. Swiss Med Wkly. (2001) 131(9-10):127-32.
    Barzel US and LK Massey Excess dietary protein can adversely affect bone. J Nutr. (1998) 128(6):1051-3.
    Fogelholm M. Dairy products, meat and sports performance. Sports Med. (2003) 33(8):615-31.
    Sabate J. The contribution of vegetarian diets to human health. Forum Nutr. (2003) 56:218-20. 13. Li D et. al. Lean meat and heart health. Asia Pac J Clin Nutr. (2005) 14(2):113-9.
    Hodgson JM et. al. Increased lean red meat intake does not elevate markers of oxidative stress and inflammation in humans. J Nutr. (2007) 137(2):363-7. Links
    Biesalski HK.Meat and cancer: meat as a component of a healthy diet.
    Eur J Clin Nutr. (2002) 56 Suppl 1:S2-11.
    Hodgson JM et. al. Partial substitution of carbohydrate intake with protein intake from lean red meat lowers blood pressure in hypertensive persons.Am J Clin Nutr. (2006) 83(4):780-7.
    Hill M. Meat, cancer and dietary advice to the public. Eur J Clin Nutr. (2002) 56 Suppl 1:S36-41
    Elmadfa I, Freisling H. Fat intake, diet variety and health promotion. Forum Nutr. (2005) (57):1-10.
  • RonSwanson66
    RonSwanson66 Posts: 1,150 Member
    The title should actually be: "Made up **** about protein"
    I'm actually dropping this subject - those of you responding will find a way to poke holes into everything I say. Again...I use words such as "may" and "could be". You quote bodybuilding magazines and personal trainers.

    Your detractors quoted peer-reviewed science. You quoted websites and lay-articles.

    Which do you think is the better source?