Low Carbs and Anger

Troy67 · January 2012

Hey everyone,
Just an observation about something that has been going on with me and wondering if others have had similar issues.
I was at my heaviest weight (336 pounds) in 2005 and had lost 145 pounds that next year. Since then I had been up and down several times. I was back up to 257 pounds in April 2011 when I finally realized I needed to change the whole lifestyle. Couldn't "diet" any more. Dieting made me feel like I was missing out on things or being punished. I am now at 171 pounds due to eating better and exercising. I never go hungry, I have just found all of the lower calorie or healthier versions of things.
For awhile now I have been having more irritability, anger, etc. Feeling shaky, tense, headaches and so on. I at first wondered if losing all of that weight was lowering my Serotonin levels. According to all of the things I have read recently that is a possibility, but today I was looking over my food diaries for the last several months and came to another conclusion.
I burn a lot of calories through exercise every week and have noticed that I am one of those people who don't really seem to need to eat my exercise calories back. I hadn't considered that by having 150, 200, 250 or more carbs left over on a daily basis it would be a bad thing. I figured that eating somewhere in the neighborhood of 1200 calories a day was a good thing and not eating a bunch of carbs was even better.
I now realize from reasearching on a lot of different nutrition sites that this has been gradually lowering my serotonin levels and causing most if not all of my symptoms of late. I always heard the term comfort food and similar things but just thought that it was a mental thing with being obese for so long; my body craved carbs, etc, even when I didn't really need them.
Now I understand that it is actually a chemical process the carbohydrates go through to increase Seretonin and thus elevate mood. I was convinced I was going to have to go see my Dr. about getting on some meds for anger or something.
For the next couple of weeks I am going to adjust my diet by 1) eating breakfast ( I usually don't eat for the first time to 7pm or later as I always work 3-11 and/or 11-7 shift). 2) eating more carbs; not a bunch of crap-but still increasing the total and 3) adding more little snacks in between meals. Whether it is just a piece of fruit, some peanut butter, etc. Just getting carbs on a more regular basis throughout the day. If this makes a difference, I will realize that is what was going on and I do not need psychiatric care. lol
My mother's side of the family has a huge history of Diabetes/High Blood Sugar. I just figured that the less carbs I ate, the better it was for my chances to avoid the same thing. I now know though, that the other end of the spectrum isn't necessarily better. Times at work where I feel jittery, clammy, sweaty, etc and I have used the glucometer on our nursing floor I have always been low.
Just my thoughts/concerns on the matter. Any suggestions, feedback, opinions are always welcome.

Troy

Flissbo · January 2012

very interesting post!

Pebble321 · January 2012

1200 seems very low for a man, I'm glad you are looking at eating more regularly, maybe some more calories in will be good for you too.
Personally I find that I get very cranky when I'm hungry -not specifically related to macronutrients but just generally grumpy when hungry.
Now I know this, I try to eat regularly to keep my mood steady. I know this isn't the case for everyone, but it certainly is for me.
Good luck in working out the healthiest pattern for you.

AirCircleI · January 2012

I definitely get cranky and bad tempered when I haven't eaten. Sometimes I notice this before I get hungry and it makes me realise I need to eat. For the last month or so I have been in a great mood, which I think can partly be put down to a new eating and exercise regime. For me, it is involved no alcohol, sugar or caffeine. Also definitely having breakfast and lots of snacks (usually fruit and nuts, or a glass or soy milk, or some peanut butter on crackers). You can also have healthy carbs - like fruit, brown rice, brown pasta, quinoa, sweet potatoes, etc. good luck!

niknak2308 · January 2012

Very interesting post! I had never realised the connection with Seretonin and Carbs before but that's something I shall
be keeping an eye out for when I'm having a rubbishy day.
Do you think it's something that takes a while to have an effect? (You said looking back through your diary, I was wondering how far.)
I also echo that 1200 does sound low for a man - perhaps if you do make a point of eating some carbs for breakfast you'll eat an extra 300cals or so and it should give you some energy for the rest of the day

Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

Ryhenblue · January 2012

There's nothing wrong with increasing your carb intake to see how you feel. Everyone is different and some do well on low carb diets others don't. I eat a lot of carbs myself because I eat a lot of beans and pasta. I don't think I could ever go on a low carb diet since all the food I love has carbs.

CharityPearce · January 2012

I took a Nutrition class last semester that was really eye-opening for me as far as carbs go. Of course some carbs are just bad... simple sugars are just wasted cals - not to mention what they do to your teeth and blood sugar. But you do need a certain amount of carbs for many reasons. I hadn't even heard about the serotonin thing, but it makes sense. Troy, I see your diary most days and think "Holy crap! I can't believe he can function on that few cals!" Not judging, as I tend to keep my cals really, really low also. But you do exercise like a beast... : ) If you're having issues - I'm so glad you're upping the cals at least a little, and good luck!!!

dawnmcgee · January 2012

Great job on realizing nutrition is affecting your mood! I also wasn't aware of this so this helps me be more alert and I agree with you a little bit of a calorie and carb increase will help,keep us posted I am curious to see what the outcome is and thank you for sharing this with us:)

LesliePierceRN · January 2012

I've never had any doubt that low carbs make me cranky, and upping them makes me feel better.

islandgirldl76 · January 2012

You are right, there is a connection between seratonin and carbs. Have you done a good liver and kidney cleanse since you lost all of this weight? When you loose fat all the chemicals that are in it dumped into your system really give those organs a workout.

Plus I spoke to my doctor about how I can't seem to lower my carb intake to a more reasonable amount, nothing crazy low. And she said if that is the case you have Adrenal Fatigue and you need to be treating that also. If your adrenals are shot you are running on carbs and when you don't have them, you get pissy, moddy, light headed etc. This is different than low blood sugar from not eating in a while. Adrenal Fatigue she stated is underdiagnosed now days. It's all connected.

But I also agree that seems low for calories for a man, unless a doctor gave you that caloric goal. The no carb diet has shown to cause problems long term and isn't something we should strive for. It's about balance. Unless you are doing that short term for some medical reason under a doctors supervion be careful.

If we listen to our bodies they can teach us things.

sergetns73 · January 2012

oh my , i have been starving myself since day one ( 5 days ago) to only 1200 kl a day, of course i was only able to do that once and the rest i went overboard with the wrong food, my highest was yesterday with 1700 kl, i am really worry , everying i eat has high sodium , even whole wheat bread kills me 90 cal for one piece and the sodium is 175 mg, i really need help to straighten me out . i am going insane .

KYMUSE · January 2012

I've been through the low carb dilema...was seriously into body building in my 20's and training to compete..living on about 30 carbs a day-and went thru the same thing, moodiness all of it. I gave it up when I started having brown outs during a work out (not passing completely out, but couldn't stand up because the room went dim and everything starting "swirling" around me).
I really screwed my body up doing this. I think you made a really wise choice-good luck with everything!

LorinaLynn · January 2012

I've heard it called "Atkins Attitude." http://www.geneva-health.com/sciencehealth/lowcarb.html

Deedee0075 · January 2012

I low carbed (less than 50g/day) for 13 years before joining MFP. I realized that I had been doing it all wrong - I have no idea how I punished myself for so long. I don't care what anyone says - If you are working out, you need carbs.

I was not happy. I developed skin discoloration on my arm that grew larger as I continued to low carb - my doctor immediately advised me to incorporate carbs. Once I did that, I relapsed completely, gained all the weight back before losing another 40 pounds. I was lightheaded ALL of the time and eventually I could no longer lose weight by low carbing.

jared767 · January 2012

That was interesting! You actually motivated a lot of people here..like me

I am the kind of person who wants to keep fit by doing the natural way of losing weight. Although at times, I feel like losing hope and wondering if it's really possible.

After reading your story, well I just thought that if you can do it, why can't I?

Troy67 · January 2012

Thanks for the responses everyone.
Islandgirl, the adrenal fatigue sounded possible but when I took the self test, I realized I didn'e have very many of the symptoms.
I ate breakfast before going to work for a change (1st food of the day about 5 or 6 hours earlier than I usually do); have had a couple of snacks and a small lunch and feel significantly better today. No shakes, irritability, headaches, etc. Feel relaxed and calm. Hopefully it was just being low on carbs for so long and these little tweeks will fix the problem.

nels2233 · January 2012

1200 calories is way too low if you are also exercising everydayl serotin comes not only from carbs but also from turkey. think of the after thanksgiving glow. you have lost lot of weight, now you should be in maintenance -not starvation.

feel good about yourself. you have accomplished alot. now, take care of yourself.

econut2000 · January 2012

I have Type 2 diabetes but I get low blood sugar (occasionally now, but used to be multiple times a day when I was younger) and I am a complete and total *kitten* when that happens!! I sweat and get the shakes and lash out at EVERYONE! The only thing I can think about is getting food in my tummy. Honestly when I went super low carb 10 years ago, I stopped having this problem (although the first few days of starting the diet I was not a happy camper). You may check to see if you are pre-diabetic or have Type 2 diabetes. Of course getting some added calories won't hurt!

Good luck!

SparkleShine · January 2012

So what time are you getting up? If you get up several hours before your 7PM meal that could make you very cranky!

sweet110 · January 2012

...the added calories will probably help. 1200 calories...I think I'd just lay down and die if I had to live on 1200 total calories WITH exercise. And I'm a 4'11" woman. Irritable?...I think I would have killed someone already...and maybe taken a bite out of them. You probably felt okay for as long as you did because you had enough excess fat to metabolize. Now that you don't...your body starting sending you a message you couldn't ignore.

And "low-carb" without a plan is no good. Even the king of low-carb, Mr. Atkins himself, had people eating a decent amount of fruit, vegetables, and some grains after the first 2 weeks.

So, it sound like you are back on the right track. Good luck!

Helloitsdan · January 2012

!800-2200 calories daily!
Protein 30%
Carbs 40%
Fat 30%

Dedication 100%
Mood elevated due to fabulous food stuffs fueling body needing training!

Heres the deal!

I'm 37 5'5" I lose fat on anything under 2500 calories.
I lose lean mass on anything below 1600 calories.

Screw that! I would rather lose 1 lb of fat a week with maximum lean mass retention.

Set MFP up.
download Stronglifts 5x5 app from android or iTunes and do that 3 times a week at the gym.
Jog once or twice a week if you have too.

Your better body is built in the kitchen and while you sleep!
Everything else is secondary!

PS! Yuor lifestyle fits well into Intermittent Fasting!
Stop eating after 10pm, start eating again after 2pm.
youll lose fat that way too!
www.leangains.com

So sleep in, skip breakfast and lift heavy!

brownidgirl35 · January 2012

There is truth to the Snicker commercials!
Low Blood Sugar can make people cranky, irritable or angy. If my husband comes home and I get snippy with him he will immediately ask me when I ate last cause you have the crazy eyes. It's funny afterwards! Since I am basically alone during the day because I work at night I don't realize that I'm cranky. About 15-30 minutes after I eat I feel much better.
Diabetes runs in my family also and I've had a few of the sugar tests where they check your sugar all day after each meal. My sugar would always stay around 90 which is considered low after eating...so I was told. Best thing for me is to keep certs, tic-tacs or gum in my purse so I will at least have something with a little sugar in it to give me a boost.
Hope you feel better!

titletown · January 2012

What is your BMR?

1200 cals a day is way low, especially if you are working out every day and seeing that you are only 3 lbs from your goal, why not up your cals to at least your BMR and 75% of your exercise cals and see if that helps?

Troy67 · January 2012

Lately I had been up 7 or 8 hours before I ate for the first time. I didn't feel hungry so I did not notice the gradual changes for awhile.
Yeah, I didn't even intentionally go low carb. Just happened by finding all the 100 calorie versions of things and healthier versions of my favorite foods, that they were naturally lower in carbs. I believe you are right that now that I am down to a decent weight I am not metabolizing fat and creating my own supply of Serotonin.
While I was in the process of losing on a steady basis, I adjusted the whole diet to accomodate that. Now I actually have to add things back in in a healthy way to maintain. I definitely enjoy the sensation it gives my body when I eat some starchy carbohydrates. Just have to keep it in moderation.

Troy67 · January 2012

Titletown,
According to the calculators I have tried, my BMR is around 1670. I guess I had been in weight loss mode for so long, it is hard to make my brain switch to eating more. I still have my MFP settings reflecting 2 lbs per week weight loss goal and a pretty active lifestyle. I might change the numbers and see what I can do without gaining. Just scares the crap out of me when I have been in the losing mind set for so long. lol

Helloitsdan · January 2012

Gluconeogenesis could make you tired since you dont eat enough.

Gluconeogenesis is a ubiquitous process, present in plants, animals, fungi, bacteria, and other microorganisms.[2] In animals, gluconeogenesis takes place mainly in the liver and, to a lesser extent, in the cortex of kidneys. This process occurs during periods of fasting, starvation, low-carbohydrate diets, or intense exercise and is highly endergonic. For example, the pathway leading from pyruvate to glucose-6-phosphate requires 4 molecules of ATP and 2 molecules of GTP. Gluconeogenesis is often associated with ketosis. Gluconeogenesis is also a target of therapy for type II diabetes, such as metformin, which inhibits glucose formation and stimulates glucose uptake by cells.[3]

In simple terms it tries to turn down your energy expenditure by catabolizing lean mass.
Lean mass is active tissue and requires energy to operate.
The lower your TDEE the less your body has to work, the more it can hold onto fat mass.

Up calories or you could be setting yourself back.

teagin2002 · January 2012

I do eat a fairly low carb diet, but I eat, exercise and eat back as much of the exercise cals I can.
If I don't exercise I will eat 1600 cals, but I find I am not happy (moody) unless I eat around 2000 cals. SO I make sure to do something to up my calories for the day.

I do eat fruit and veggies and maybe 2 servings of either oats, 1 slice of whole wheat bread, lentils or black beans.
Upping your cals with definitely help with your mood, I know it does with me :flowerforyou:

titletown · January 2012

I'd bump it up to at least 1670 for a week and see how it goes. You may gain a few lbs right out of the gate but don't let that sacre you, probably just retaining a bit of water.

Once things even out and you start losing again, bump it up a bit more to eventually find the right place you need to be with all the exercising you do.

My guess is that it is fatigue and starvation more than anything else you are feeling.

Best of luck to you...

Helloitsdan · January 2012

After talking to Troy last night I crunched some numbers....

Okay Troy,

BMR 1596 Eating below this is a metabolism killer. Also eating below this robs nutrients from vital organs like your heart, liver, kidneys, brain etc. catabolism is known to happen in this range because the body doesnt get the nutrients it need nor the energy so it seeks to slow the body down by eating active tissue and dropping TDEE.

TDEE 2473 This is how much energy in calories you use a day. This is AKA maintenance.
Lean mass 125lbs
Fat mass 46lbs
Overweight Range

Eat 2k calories daily to lose 1lb fat per week with minimal to no lean mass lost.
Protein 30%
Carbs 40%
Fat 30%

Do this for 1 month to regulate.
You will gain some water weight for the first week but this goes away.

janegalt37 · January 2012

Troy,
I'm not one to poo-poo anyone's goals, but I'm concerned about your goal weight. My husband is 5'9", 145lbs, age 45, and he's a skinny little Italian with naturally good muscle tone and a quite low bf%. That said, your arms are quite a bit more muscular than his. He currently doesn't exercise at all (but is beginning lifting soon). I can't imagine someone exercising like you do and building muscle can have the low weight you aspire to have.
Then again, I've never met you.....
Good luck with everything, and listen to Dan.

Troy67 · January 2012

Thanks Jane. I think it is the body image thing. When I was at my biggest, I would look in the mirror and my brain would tell me that I wasn't really that big. Didn't help that friends and family said the same thing.
Now I look in the mirror and see the extra flab here and there and the extra roll in my mid-section and keep thinking I am huge and need to loose a lot more weight. Doctors and friends all remind me that is probably 20 or so pounds of flab/skin, etc and there really isn't much actual fat under there to burn, But I see the number on the scale and see that BMI says I should "weigh" 159 at the most for my height.
I can wear 34 pants up over my waist and a medium shirt now, I know that I probably only weigh 150 pounds if the skin/flab were gone. It is just hard to tell your brain that. It never keeps up with the body. lol
I was told to give it a good year once I stop losing for toning up and then if I was worried I could see about having it removed.
I am going to take Dan's advice. I already downloaded the Stronglifts workout, spreadsheets, lifting app, etc and am going to try that approach. Looks like if I can stick to that it should help me tone up a lot. Also tweaked my macros to his recommendations. I have been doing very little strength training and killing myself with cardio for 9 straight months. Will give it a shot!
Thanks, Dan!!

Low Carbs and Anger

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