Let's Talk About... Raspberry Ketones

Acg67
Acg67 Posts: 12,142 Member
edited November 9 in Food and Nutrition
Lots of questions are being asked about this "miracle" pill that some guy recommended on his tv show.

Raspberry ketones are are a phenolic compound derived from red raspberries. They were studied for their effect on weight loss due to a similar chemical makeup of synephrine (whose efficacy on weight loss is also questionable)

Raspberry ketones
raspberryketone.gif

Synephrine

synefrine.gif


This study on mice showed that when fed a high fat diet, the mice put on less weight while using raspberry ketones then without

Anti-obese action of raspberry ketone. Life Sci. 2005 May 27;77(2):194-204
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15862604

raspberryketone4.gif

The only one i could find on humans is an unpublished clinical trial done in 2007, now if the results were so awesome, why was it never published or more studies done on it?

http://www.naturalproductsinsider.com/news/2007/04/razberi-ktm-supports-fat-oxidation.aspx


So what can we really conclude from all this? That Dr Oz has no idea what he's talking about if he says raspberry ketones do anything special for humans like target specific fat stores, because the evidence it does so is simply not there
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Replies

  • lglg11
    lglg11 Posts: 344 Member
    Excellent .
  • _GlaDOS_
    _GlaDOS_ Posts: 1,520 Member
    You are just so awesome. :happy:
  • cgrout78
    cgrout78 Posts: 1,628 Member
    You pretty much rock...but the people that should read this...won't, you do realize that?
  • twooliver
    twooliver Posts: 450 Member
    Maybe so...but I got to say that I'm curious enough to give it a try for myself...
  • CarlyRobbinsGilbert
    CarlyRobbinsGilbert Posts: 64
    This is smart-looking stuff but maybe I'm not-so-smart -- what's wrong with the 2007 study? Just that it hasn't been duplicated/published?
  • MissO﹠A
    MissO﹠A Posts: 906 Member
    I'm not a doctor, but when I play one on TV -- people just LOVE me! *jazz hands*


    Thanks for posting this. :drinker:
  • kennethmgreen
    kennethmgreen Posts: 1,759 Member
    This needs to be in Unofficial FAQ.
  • Elizabeth_C34
    Elizabeth_C34 Posts: 6,376 Member
    This is smart-looking stuff but maybe I'm not-so-smart -- what's wrong with the 2007 study? Just that it hasn't been duplicated/published?

    Unpublished work like this has not been subjected to peer review, which is the problem. It hasn't been vetted so we have no idea if this is effective, dangerous, or whether the study was done with scientific rigor on humans.

    Acg is dead on with this post.
  • Aperture_Science
    Aperture_Science Posts: 840 Member
    This is smart-looking stuff but maybe I'm not-so-smart -- what's wrong with the 2007 study? Just that it hasn't been duplicated/published?

    There is no legal requirement to publish the result of a clinical study (in the UK at least), so a company with questionable ethics is likely only tend to publish studies which report findings favourable to their cause/drug/supplement.
  • infamousmk
    infamousmk Posts: 6,033 Member
    I was about to go all psycho-pissed about another Raspberry Ketone thread, but this actually brought me great joy.

    Thank you so much for doing the research and posting your findings!
  • Elizabeth_C34
    Elizabeth_C34 Posts: 6,376 Member
    This is smart-looking stuff but maybe I'm not-so-smart -- what's wrong with the 2007 study? Just that it hasn't been duplicated/published?

    There is no legal requirement to publish the result of a clinical study (in the UK at least), so a company with questionable ethics is likely only tend to publish studies which report findings favourable to their cause/drug/supplement.

    This too.
  • CarlyRobbinsGilbert
    CarlyRobbinsGilbert Posts: 64
    I see.
  • MrsCon40
    MrsCon40 Posts: 2,351 Member
    We should all chip in and put you on salary. Your job would be to watch Dr. Quack and debunk the horse$hit he spews before the forums are flooded with his latest miracle fat loss cure.

    Really kids - science has proven again and again that a balanced diet and plenty of daily activity not only work - you don't have to pay extra for them!
  • IronmanPanda
    IronmanPanda Posts: 2,083 Member
    But... but... Dr. Oz is a DOCTOR! :sad:
  • MissFit0101
    MissFit0101 Posts: 2,382
    :flowerforyou: :flowerforyou: :flowerforyou:
  • d2footballJRC
    d2footballJRC Posts: 2,684 Member
    Raspberry Ketones have been used for awhile now but again the issue with fat burners and other pills is people don't understand what they are for. (BTW, I don't buy into Raspberry Ketones, but there are fat burners that work)

    #1. They aren't miracle pills, you still have to move your *kitten* and eat right (in a deficit)
    #2. They aren't made for people needing to drop a ton of weight, they are made for those people at a lower body fat (12% or so) who usually want to drop sub 10% BF. That is what they are designed for, they aren't designed for people trying to lose a bunch of weight to take and watch it melt off.
    #3. There are plenty of supplements that don't have medical backing that do work. DAA is one of them, I've heard so many interesting varying things about DAA. I know from my blood work that DAA does indeed work for test. boosting.
    #4. Not all supplements work for everyone, we are all different and some supplements you might be non-responding to. I've tired a few that did nothing to me, but I gave them to my bud who had great success with them. Our bodies are not all the same.
  • Contrarian
    Contrarian Posts: 8,138 Member
    Oprah is going to be furious when she reads this.
  • infamousmk
    infamousmk Posts: 6,033 Member
    Oprah is going to be furious when she reads this.

    uh oh .... we do NOT want to piss off Oprah.
  • ilookthetype
    ilookthetype Posts: 3,021 Member
    I ate raspberries in my smoothie today. They were delicious.
  • kennethmgreen
    kennethmgreen Posts: 1,759 Member
    We should all chip in and put you on salary. Your job would be to watch Dr. Quack and debunk the horse$hit he spews before the forums are flooded with his latest miracle fat loss cure.

    Really kids - science has proven again and again that a balanced diet and plenty of daily activity not only work - you don't have to pay extra for them!
    Except that we will continue to look for a shortcut or secret.
  • TourThePast
    TourThePast Posts: 1,753 Member
    So what can we really conclude from all this? That Dr Oz has no idea what he's talking about if he says raspberry ketones do anything special for humans
    It does do something for a limited number of humans, it makes them very rich! :bigsmile:
    #4. Not all supplements work for everyone
    True. However, there are some supplements that work for nobody, and the evidence seems to suggest that this is one of them.
  • Acg67
    Acg67 Posts: 12,142 Member
    #3. There are plenty of supplements that don't have medical backing that do work. DAA is one of them, I've heard so many interesting varying things about DAA. I know from my blood work that DAA does indeed work for test. boosting.

    There are a few studies that show DAA works, that's where the oft cited 30% increase in test comes from. And sure some supps do work with scant or no human studies, but to say a supp specifically does something with no backing what so ever has to call into question the credibility of the person making it
  • LATeagno
    LATeagno Posts: 620 Member
    What's funny is that a higher fat diet doesn't even lead to weight gain. Excess calories and refined garbage does.

    Oz is a hack.
  • d2footballJRC
    d2footballJRC Posts: 2,684 Member
    #3. There are plenty of supplements that don't have medical backing that do work. DAA is one of them, I've heard so many interesting varying things about DAA. I know from my blood work that DAA does indeed work for test. boosting.

    There are a few studies that show DAA works, that's where the oft cited 30% increase in test comes from. And sure some supps do work with scant or no human studies, but to say a supp specifically does something with no backing what so ever has to call into question the credibility of the person making it

    Then there is studies that show DAA makes you go crazy and kills brain functions. The problem is test results have way too many variables. The one thing I do say about Raspberry Ketones is I think they have to have some value to some people. Some companies which I respect greatly do have the Ketones in some of their products. I don't question them much at all, as the company has shown to be one of the more up and up companies in the supplement business. The problem is people look for that magical silver bullet and it's just not there. I saw the Dr. Oz. episode and thought he worded it incredibly wrong. I also think the guy is a sellout.

    I do agree with you on supplement labels and claims. USP Labs is horrible about it, some of the blanket claims they make are just ridiculous.
  • secretiive
    secretiive Posts: 121 Member
    I have a background in the science arena, and most of the time, we look for the ability to repeat results that come during clinical trials. So the study may not be taken very seriously without more studies producing the same results.
  • Acg67
    Acg67 Posts: 12,142 Member

    Then there is studies that show DAA makes you go crazy and kills brain functions. The problem is test results have way too many variables. The one thing I do say about Raspberry Ketones is I think they have to have some value to some people. Some companies which I respect greatly do have the Ketones in some of their products. I don't question them much at all, as the company has shown to be one of the more up and up companies in the supplement business. The problem is people look for that magical silver bullet and it's just not there. I saw the Dr. Oz. episode and thought he worded it incredibly wrong. I also think the guy is a sellout.

    I do agree with you on supplement labels and claims. USP Labs is horrible about it, some of the blanket claims they make are just ridiculous.

    There are companies that use ketones or sell a standalone ketone product, SNS and AI sports come to mind, but for example SNS still sells CEE and that has been proven to be garbage. So simply because a company uses or sells a product that that happens to make other great product doesn't tell me much.
  • AmandaBroun
    AmandaBroun Posts: 126
    I can tell you that raspberry ketones will not be good for my diet, because every time the topic comes up on here, it makes me want some fruity cocktail or cookie.
  • jfluchere
    jfluchere Posts: 346 Member
    Dr oz is in business for ratings. He got you to all watch and talk and check out his website. Advertising dollars in his pocket.
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 10,268 Member
    Lots of questions are being asked about this "miracle" pill that some guy recommended on his tv show.

    Raspberry ketones are are a phenolic compound derived from red raspberries. They were studied for their effect on weight loss due to a similar chemical makeup of synephrine (whose efficacy on weight loss is also questionable)

    Raspberry ketones
    raspberryketone.gif

    Synephrine

    synefrine.gif


    This study on mice showed that when fed a high fat diet, the mice put on less weight while using raspberry ketones then without

    Anti-obese action of raspberry ketone. Life Sci. 2005 May 27;77(2):194-204
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15862604

    raspberryketone4.gif

    The only one i could find on humans is an unpublished clinical trial done in 2007, now if the results were so awesome, why was it never published or more studies done on it?

    http://www.naturalproductsinsider.com/news/2007/04/razberi-ktm-supports-fat-oxidation.aspx


    So what can we really conclude from all this? That Dr Oz has no idea what he's talking about if he says raspberry ketones do anything special for humans like target specific fat stores, because the evidence it does so is simply not there
    I believe the mouse study has raspberry ketone consumption at 2% of total calories consumed. That would equate to about 200 calories for a human trial, and considering the actual cost of the extract to be about 500.00 an ounce, don't know how many calories that would represent, but suffice is to say, in a supp, which is not regulated, it would be inconsequential and pretty much another money grap for the uninformed and desperate. Save your money people.
  • d2footballJRC
    d2footballJRC Posts: 2,684 Member

    Then there is studies that show DAA makes you go crazy and kills brain functions. The problem is test results have way too many variables. The one thing I do say about Raspberry Ketones is I think they have to have some value to some people. Some companies which I respect greatly do have the Ketones in some of their products. I don't question them much at all, as the company has shown to be one of the more up and up companies in the supplement business. The problem is people look for that magical silver bullet and it's just not there. I saw the Dr. Oz. episode and thought he worded it incredibly wrong. I also think the guy is a sellout.

    I do agree with you on supplement labels and claims. USP Labs is horrible about it, some of the blanket claims they make are just ridiculous.

    There are companies that use ketones or sell a standalone ketone product, SNS and AI sports come to mind, but for example SNS still sells CEE and that has been proven to be garbage. So simply because a company uses or sells a product that that happens to make other great product doesn't tell me much.

    AI sports is who I was getting at. The Nate's and John are good people.
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