Intermittent Fasting

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  • Resalyn
    Resalyn Posts: 528 Member
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    Does anyone follow Eat-Stop-Eat by Brad Pilon? I haven't purchased his e-book yet, still researching which is better for me, Lean Gains or ESE.

    My understanding is that ESE promotes a 24-hour fast once or twice a week and Lean Gains promotes a daily fasting with a window in which you are supposed to eat, like 16/8, meaning 16 hours fasting, 8 hour window for eating. (Please correct me if I'm wrong! I'm still researching!)

    Has anyone tried both methods and can comment on which worked better for them? I plan on trying ESE for 3 months and then Lean Gains for 3 months as a personal trial to see which one works best for me....
  • Resalyn
    Resalyn Posts: 528 Member
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    How does IF violate getting in adequate nutrition, when you are eating the same number of cals and macros as you would, just in a compressed time.

    Why would you have to eat 6 times a day, when it yields no metabolic advantage?

    ^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^^ Nothing I have read about IF indicates a restricted caloric intake, simply a restriced window of time....
  • Yanicka1
    Yanicka1 Posts: 4,564 Member
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    ok some people don't like what I said... lol but good for you!! Here are some reasons why you should not INTERMITTENTFAST

    A Supplecity site visitor asked about "intermittent fasting," after having read about its many wonders on various blogs and postings written by people with credentials completely unrelated to diet and fat reduction.

    The idea behind this is you starve your body of calories just long enough to tap your fat stores but not long enough to trigger your body's starvation defenses. Looking at it from just this perspective, it would appear to be just the thing for a person who wants a magic bullet for losing fat. It's not.

    This practice has several serious shortfalls. For starters, it reduces nutrient absorption, causes insulin swings, and plays hell with your kidneys. If you want to go into a coma or wind up on dialysis, this approach is perfect. Otherwise, stay away. It's Dangerous (notice the capital D there?).

    Why would it do that? Can you explain why the kidney would be affected?
    Let's step back a moment and look at the bigger picture. If your goal is to "lose weight," then of course mindlessly reducing calories for a short enough period that you don't go into the low-metabolism, calorie conserving mode makes sense.

    But, that's not a sensible goal. A sensible goal is fat reduction. And that is hugely different (no pun intended) from weight loss. And so are the consequences. After all, you can lose weight very quickly by having your limbs amputated. Do you think a runner who wants to go faster should lose weight by such a method? Of course not. And it doesn't make sense for anyone else.

    You can lose weight by losing lean tissue, and most weight loss methods result in that. What you really want to do is lose excess fat, because that's how you get rid of a root cause of disease.

    How can someone start losing muscle after only 16 hours fast.....the body is way more resilient then that.
    Nobody has ever gone to a doctor and heard, "Well, your arteries are clogged because you have too much lean mass." No, the problem is the excess body fat.


    Hummmm..... I think it is simplifying heart disease greatly and I really do not see the link with IF
    That excess fat comes from too many calories. But simply cutting calories doesn't fix the fat problem. There's a bit more to it than that.

    IF has nothing to do with very low calories.
    Your body needs a certain amount of calories each day to:

    Maintain healthy bone and muscle.
    Maintain healthy organs.
    Maintain adequate brain functioning.
    Further, you cannot build new muscle on a restricted calorie diet. This means that, for sustainable leanness and fat loss, this diet works against you by inhibiting muscle growth.

    I totally agree with you but again IF has nothing to do with calorie restriction
    Your body also needs a certain level of fiber flow through the digestive system to reduce cancer risk and generally detoxify your system.

    When you go on intermittent fasting, all of this stops.

    You stop building new muscle, which means you reduce the amount of fat you burn just by sleeping. You will, in fact, lose muscle. And why on earth would you want to risk your job by showing up with a brain that isn't firing on all cylinders? Do you want to drive a car on our dangerous roads in that condition?

    Again, the body will not go into starvation mode in only 16 hours fast

    This diet, like all other "silver bullet" diets, ignores fundamental principles and tries to get something for nothing.

    If you want to reduce your body fat, you will find out how to safely and effectively do that in our other fat loss articles. Go here to see what they are: Weight loss and fat loss articles.

    Some general principles of fat loss are as follows:

    Get adequate nutrition. Did you notice that the intermittent fasting method violates this?

    Again IF has nothing to do with starving yourself
    Eat six meals a day. Did you notice that the intermittent fasting method violates this, also?

    Meal timing has nothing to do with metabolism
    Control your portion size to limit calories to what your body needs to maintain lean tissue, based on your lean tissue composition and activity level.

    Avoid or eliminate highly processed foods.
    If you follow just those four principles, you will see your body fat level go to well within the "Look at that tight bod!" level. Yes, there's more you can do to fine tune things and get really "cut." And maybe you would like more information on the details of doing so.

    But it you just follow these four principles, you will get results. You won't need to experiment with a health-challenging, unsustainable, uncomfortable practice like fasting. Intermittently or otherwise.
  • rileysowner
    rileysowner Posts: 8,239 Member
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    ok some people don't like what I said... lol but good for you!! Here are some reasons why you should not INTERMITTENTFAST

    A Supplecity site visitor asked about "intermittent fasting," after having read about its many wonders on various blogs and postings written by people with credentials completely unrelated to diet and fat reduction.

    The idea behind this is you starve your body of calories just long enough to tap your fat stores but not long enough to trigger your body's starvation defenses. Looking at it from just this perspective, it would appear to be just the thing for a person who wants a magic bullet for losing fat. It's not.

    This practice has several serious shortfalls. For starters, it reduces nutrient absorption, causes insulin swings, and plays hell with your kidneys. If you want to go into a coma or wind up on dialysis, this approach is perfect. Otherwise, stay away. It's Dangerous (notice the capital D there?).

    Let's step back a moment and look at the bigger picture. If your goal is to "lose weight," then of course mindlessly reducing calories for a short enough period that you don't go into the low-metabolism, calorie conserving mode makes sense.

    But, that's not a sensible goal. A sensible goal is fat reduction. And that is hugely different (no pun intended) from weight loss. And so are the consequences. After all, you can lose weight very quickly by having your limbs amputated. Do you think a runner who wants to go faster should lose weight by such a method? Of course not. And it doesn't make sense for anyone else.

    You can lose weight by losing lean tissue, and most weight loss methods result in that. What you really want to do is lose excess fat, because that's how you get rid of a root cause of disease.

    Nobody has ever gone to a doctor and heard, "Well, your arteries are clogged because you have too much lean mass." No, the problem is the excess body fat.

    That excess fat comes from too many calories. But simply cutting calories doesn't fix the fat problem. There's a bit more to it than that.

    Your body needs a certain amount of calories each day to:

    Maintain healthy bone and muscle.
    Maintain healthy organs.
    Maintain adequate brain functioning.
    Further, you cannot build new muscle on a restricted calorie diet. This means that, for sustainable leanness and fat loss, this diet works against you by inhibiting muscle growth.

    Your body also needs a certain level of fiber flow through the digestive system to reduce cancer risk and generally detoxify your system.

    When you go on intermittent fasting, all of this stops.

    You stop building new muscle, which means you reduce the amount of fat you burn just by sleeping. You will, in fact, lose muscle. And why on earth would you want to risk your job by showing up with a brain that isn't firing on all cylinders? Do you want to drive a car on our dangerous roads in that condition?

    This diet, like all other "silver bullet" diets, ignores fundamental principles and tries to get something for nothing.

    If you want to reduce your body fat, you will find out how to safely and effectively do that in our other fat loss articles. Go here to see what they are: Weight loss and fat loss articles.

    Some general principles of fat loss are as follows:

    Get adequate nutrition. Did you notice that the intermittent fasting method violates this?

    Eat six meals a day. Did you notice that the intermittent fasting method violates this, also?

    Control your portion size to limit calories to what your body needs to maintain lean tissue, based on your lean tissue composition and activity level.

    Avoid or eliminate highly processed foods.
    If you follow just those four principles, you will see your body fat level go to well within the "Look at that tight bod!" level. Yes, there's more you can do to fine tune things and get really "cut." And maybe you would like more information on the details of doing so.

    But it you just follow these four principles, you will get results. You won't need to experiment with a health-challenging, unsustainable, uncomfortable practice like fasting. Intermittently or otherwise.

    Based on this response, it seems both your knowledge of what Intermittent Fasting is and of the latest research on diet and weight loss are lacking. The whole six meals a day thing has been showed to be incorrect by numerous studies. I posted the following in another thread,
    There are several studied done recently on meal timing and all of them point to the same thing, when you eat does not matter. They did everything from one meal a day to several meals a day. In 2007 Stote et al in the A Journal of Clinical Nutrition http://www.ajcn.org/content/85/4/981.abstract?ijkey=6ff83cee7da2101afdc159e7f8dd1a61a4d9f746&keytype2=tf_ipsecsha did a study of people half the group eating one meal a day (dinner in early eveing). The other half did three meals a day. After the test time they let the whole group eat as they normally would for 11 weeks to normalize their eating pattern, then the switch the groups around. The study time was 8 weeks, and they were eating enough to maintain their body weight. The results, 3 meals a day no change in weight. 1 meal a day lost 3 pounds and an average of 4.6 pounds of fat (probably because it is difficult to eat all your calories in one meal). That is not old science, it is recent. When you eat makes no difference. See also Smeets et al British Journal of Nutrition 2008 finding no metabolic rate change between 2 or 3 meals a day; and Farshchi et al Am Jrnl of Clinical Nutrition 2005 http://www.ajcn.org/content/81/1/3.full using 3, 6 or 9 meals a day again finding no change in metabolic rate.

    The multiple meals a day may help you feel more satisfied, it may, but it will do nothing to significantly increase your calorie burning. I believe the numbers for calories burned for 100 calories of protein is like 10. You would be better off not eating that rather than thinking eating something will help you lose weight.

    As Parks et al say in their article in the Am Jrnl of Clinical Nutrition, "Simply put, the question of whether there is a health benefit from the consumption of multiple small meals will ultimately depend on how much energy is consumed, as opposed to how often or how regularly one eats."
  • Acg67
    Acg67 Posts: 12,142 Member
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    Glen wins the Broscar for his broscience

    broscar.jpg
  • holeshottdr
    holeshottdr Posts: 364 Member
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    IF works for me and my schedule. I usually run 16-20 hours with little to no calories and a 4-8 hr feeding window. It's just a different way of hitting your calorie goal and macros for the day. Works for some people and others disagree with it.
  • duetwithjosh
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    I have an elderly coworker who is vegan and in amazing shape -- she's strong, vibrant, and always full of energy. She fasts one day a week, every week. Not for weight loss or anything in particular, just to fast.

    Anecdotal experiences like those and also the amazing historical precedence of fasting (especially in various ancient religions) make me wonder if there isn't something to it -- more so for overall health than for weight loss, though.
  • mamitosami
    mamitosami Posts: 531 Member
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    I'm bumping this so that some of my MFP pals can get in on this...

    As for me, I'm still in the learning stages of this. I do one or two fasts a week (ESE style) and the rest of my eating days are structured around the LG method. I like not eating and I love eating!! I would rather eat my calories in a short window of time because it seems like more and I realllly appreciate food now. I've been doing this for three weeks now.

    I'm still having trouble figuring out how many calories I should eat (too many? too little?)... so it's a learning process. I have read the leangains website, Eat Stop Eat, the Precision Nutrition study and several other pieces of research... It's the same with any other method of weight loss, healthy eating or lifestyle, you have to figure out what suits your body best.
  • PepeGreggerton
    PepeGreggerton Posts: 986 Member
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    Since when did the body supposedly get so bad at it's job? E.g. regulating hormones... This thread is full of broscience, WTG Glen.
  • wvualum
    wvualum Posts: 428
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    I love how people make comments that they have no idea what they are talking about.

    I'm on my 3rd week of ESE as well. I love it so far. I've started losing weight again and I too love not eating. I like to eat a meal and feel full, with ESE I can do that easily. I wasn't sure how I would handle the fast days, but I do not find them hard to do at all. By the time I do eat dinner on my fast day, I am no more hungry than my non-fast days. I have way more energy overall and feel like this is something that I will be able to do easily to maintain my weight, once I get there.

    My plan is to stick to ESE with 2 fast days a week. If my weight loss stalls, I will maybe start doing fast five, but probably more like 20/4, because of my schedule.

    Anyone doing IF, feel free to add me as a friend.

    Would be interested to know how many calories people on ESE are eating on their fasting days?
  • hauntgoddess
    hauntgoddess Posts: 109 Member
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    Dieting is all about what works for YOU! Some people can eat 5 or 6 small meals a day, and still lose weight. I worked out, and did this and never lost much. As soon as I integrated fasting into my training, I lost 8 lbs in the first 2 weeks. I feel alert during my workouts, and don't find myself obsessing about when I'm going to eat. Food tastes better when I do eat! I do the ESE method 24 hours fasting/2 days a week.

    Food is so available to us these days that we THINK we need it. We are force fed commercials, and marketed weight loss programs to spend money on all their food. What do you think our ancestors did before grocery stores, and they had to hunt/farm for their food? They had to fast until they had food that was available to them.

    I've tried every program possible, and this has been the most beneficial to me.
  • ericabrothers
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    everyone is an expert/doctor huh?
    I personally think insulin spikes are total bull****. I remember on one occasion for lunch I had Pizza, coke, and hershey's dippers and about 15 min after we finished eating we got curious and checked our blood sugar. I believe mine was 90ish. easily between the 70-120 rang. Your body is amazing at compensating. Take into consideration your body's temp for instance, unless your are sick your body is rediculious at keeping the same consistent temp. If people seriously suffered that much from fasting/not eating then why would the hospital make you NPO (nothing by mouth) if you are vomiting or have diarrhea. And they normally do NOP for no less than 12 hours. Oh that is right, they are TRYING to kill you. :huh: It is one thing for people to think you are stupid, but people have this almost primal urge to open their mouth and confirm everyone's suspicions. :noway:
  • teagin2002
    teagin2002 Posts: 1,901 Member
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    I just started IF this week. I tested it out last week on Friday and loved it. It was a time of mental healing for me, a time where I didn't have to think of food at all. I started to focus on other aspects of health, like facials for my skin and coconut oil for my hair. I had more time to give myself a nice mani pedi and then practice meditation to clear my mind.

    I made Mondays my official Fasting day, I am doing the ESE method with a 24 hr fast. I stop eating on Sunday after a nice family @ 7:30 pm then start eating a gain on Monday @ 7:30 with my family.
    I am also going to incorporate clean eating Tuesdays through Fridays then I will have Saturdays and Sundays to eat what I please with in my calorie limits.

    I will be lifting weights on Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays and doing one heavy cardio day on Wednesdays. On Saturdays and Sundays I will be going out on nice outing with my sweetheart (just leisurely walks), while my Mondays will be total rest days; I like to soak in a nice hot bath with natural aloe vera (peeled and blended aloe vera leaf) and a cup of instant coffee. It makes my skin so soft!!

    Any way with all the mental benefits and relaxation I am getting on my fast day how can I resist!!! :bigsmile:
  • Matt_Wild
    Matt_Wild Posts: 2,673 Member
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    Real world results?

    387582_10150390219528848_570723847_8470460_1723854530_n.jpg

    Better angle on her face...
    7mykucx

    My SOH.
  • lilojoke
    lilojoke Posts: 427 Member
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    I have been doing it for two years almost and love it.

    I mostly do a 5-8 hour eating window every day usually between 4:30am - 12pm as this is when I workout. I find this works well for me as evening eating gets me into trouble so kitchen and food is off limits when I get home.

    Clean eating is important even with a condensed eating window. Hydrated is even more important while fasting as well.

    I find ADF which alternate day fasting to be very effective for quick fat loss and find a 5-8 hour window best for fat loss but find myself doing both including ESE from time to time.

    I do each one depending on what the day I have planned. Weekdays is a 5-8 hour morning window and fridays is a one meal in evening while grocery shopping so I can have fun foods. Saturdays is like Friday nights and Sundays is a ESE day... I try to stick with this most of the time.
  • dinosnopro
    dinosnopro Posts: 2,179 Member
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    ok some people don't like what I said... lol but good for you!! Here are some reasons why you should not INTERMITTENTFAST

    A Supplecity site visitor asked about "intermittent fasting," after having read about its many wonders on various blogs and postings written by people with credentials completely unrelated to diet and fat reduction.

    The idea behind this is you starve your body of calories just long enough to tap your fat stores but not long enough to trigger your body's starvation defenses. Looking at it from just this perspective, it would appear to be just the thing for a person who wants a magic bullet for losing fat. It's not.

    This practice has several serious shortfalls. For starters, it reduces nutrient absorption, causes insulin swings, and plays hell with your kidneys. If you want to go into a coma or wind up on dialysis, this approach is perfect. Otherwise, stay away. It's Dangerous (notice the capital D there?).

    Let's step back a moment and look at the bigger picture. If your goal is to "lose weight," then of course mindlessly reducing calories for a short enough period that you don't go into the low-metabolism, calorie conserving mode makes sense.

    But, that's not a sensible goal. A sensible goal is fat reduction. And that is hugely different (no pun intended) from weight loss. And so are the consequences. After all, you can lose weight very quickly by having your limbs amputated. Do you think a runner who wants to go faster should lose weight by such a method? Of course not. And it doesn't make sense for anyone else.

    You can lose weight by losing lean tissue, and most weight loss methods result in that. What you really want to do is lose excess fat, because that's how you get rid of a root cause of disease.

    Nobody has ever gone to a doctor and heard, "Well, your arteries are clogged because you have too much lean mass." No, the problem is the excess body fat.

    That excess fat comes from too many calories. But simply cutting calories doesn't fix the fat problem. There's a bit more to it than that.

    Your body needs a certain amount of calories each day to:

    Maintain healthy bone and muscle.
    Maintain healthy organs.
    Maintain adequate brain functioning.
    Further, you cannot build new muscle on a restricted calorie diet. This means that, for sustainable leanness and fat loss, this diet works against you by inhibiting muscle growth.

    Your body also needs a certain level of fiber flow through the digestive system to reduce cancer risk and generally detoxify your system.

    When you go on intermittent fasting, all of this stops.

    You stop building new muscle, which means you reduce the amount of fat you burn just by sleeping. You will, in fact, lose muscle. And why on earth would you want to risk your job by showing up with a brain that isn't firing on all cylinders? Do you want to drive a car on our dangerous roads in that condition?

    This diet, like all other "silver bullet" diets, ignores fundamental principles and tries to get something for nothing.

    If you want to reduce your body fat, you will find out how to safely and effectively do that in our other fat loss articles. Go here to see what they are: Weight loss and fat loss articles.

    Some general principles of fat loss are as follows:

    Get adequate nutrition. Did you notice that the intermittent fasting method violates this?

    Eat six meals a day. Did you notice that the intermittent fasting method violates this, also?

    Control your portion size to limit calories to what your body needs to maintain lean tissue, based on your lean tissue composition and activity level.

    Avoid or eliminate highly processed foods.
    If you follow just those four principles, you will see your body fat level go to well within the "Look at that tight bod!" level. Yes, there's more you can do to fine tune things and get really "cut." And maybe you would like more information on the details of doing so.

    But it you just follow these four principles, you will get results. You won't need to experiment with a health-challenging, unsustainable, uncomfortable practice like fasting. Intermittently or otherwise.




    the broscience is strong in this one.
  • strawberrie_milk
    strawberrie_milk Posts: 381 Member
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    leangains.com
    All you need to know about IF. It's not superior to other diets, it's just another way to spread out your meals (proving that meal timing does not matter). Weight loss is still calories in and calories out.
  • Sublog
    Sublog Posts: 1,296 Member
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    I don't really agree with this because when you fast you spike your insulin levels and when you finally eat because of the high insulin levels everything you eat gets stored as fat in the body.... not a good idea

    What? This is completely wrong.
  • nutandbutter
    Options
    ok some people don't like what I said... lol but good for you!! Here are some reasons why you should not INTERMITTENTFAST

    A Supplecity site visitor asked about "intermittent fasting," after having read about its many wonders on various blogs and postings written by people with credentials completely unrelated to diet and fat reduction.

    The idea behind this is you starve your body of calories just long enough to tap your fat stores but not long enough to trigger your body's starvation defenses. Looking at it from just this perspective, it would appear to be just the thing for a person who wants a magic bullet for losing fat. It's not.

    This practice has several serious shortfalls. For starters, it reduces nutrient absorption, causes insulin swings, and plays hell with your kidneys. If you want to go into a coma or wind up on dialysis, this approach is perfect. Otherwise, stay away. It's Dangerous (notice the capital D there?).

    Let's step back a moment and look at the bigger picture. If your goal is to "lose weight," then of course mindlessly reducing calories for a short enough period that you don't go into the low-metabolism, calorie conserving mode makes sense.

    But, that's not a sensible goal. A sensible goal is fat reduction. And that is hugely different (no pun intended) from weight loss. And so are the consequences. After all, you can lose weight very quickly by having your limbs amputated. Do you think a runner who wants to go faster should lose weight by such a method? Of course not. And it doesn't make sense for anyone else.

    You can lose weight by losing lean tissue, and most weight loss methods result in that. What you really want to do is lose excess fat, because that's how you get rid of a root cause of disease.

    Nobody has ever gone to a doctor and heard, "Well, your arteries are clogged because you have too much lean mass." No, the problem is the excess body fat.

    That excess fat comes from too many calories. But simply cutting calories doesn't fix the fat problem. There's a bit more to it than that.

    Your body needs a certain amount of calories each day to:

    Maintain healthy bone and muscle.
    Maintain healthy organs.
    Maintain adequate brain functioning.
    Further, you cannot build new muscle on a restricted calorie diet. This means that, for sustainable leanness and fat loss, this diet works against you by inhibiting muscle growth.

    Your body also needs a certain level of fiber flow through the digestive system to reduce cancer risk and generally detoxify your system.

    When you go on intermittent fasting, all of this stops.

    You stop building new muscle, which means you reduce the amount of fat you burn just by sleeping. You will, in fact, lose muscle. And why on earth would you want to risk your job by showing up with a brain that isn't firing on all cylinders? Do you want to drive a car on our dangerous roads in that condition?

    This diet, like all other "silver bullet" diets, ignores fundamental principles and tries to get something for nothing.

    If you want to reduce your body fat, you will find out how to safely and effectively do that in our other fat loss articles. Go here to see what they are: Weight loss and fat loss articles.

    Some general principles of fat loss are as follows:

    Get adequate nutrition. Did you notice that the intermittent fasting method violates this?

    Eat six meals a day. Did you notice that the intermittent fasting method violates this, also?

    Control your portion size to limit calories to what your body needs to maintain lean tissue, based on your lean tissue composition and activity level.

    Avoid or eliminate highly processed foods.
    If you follow just those four principles, you will see your body fat level go to well within the "Look at that tight bod!" level. Yes, there's more you can do to fine tune things and get really "cut." And maybe you would like more information on the details of doing so.

    But it you just follow these four principles, you will get results. You won't need to experiment with a health-challenging, unsustainable, uncomfortable practice like fasting. Intermittently or otherwise.

    13446004.jpg
  • stef827
    stef827 Posts: 215 Member
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    Bumping so I can research about this. Very interesting and sounds like a great idea.