what's fair? financial dispute, opinions wanted...
kelseyhere
Posts: 1,123 Member
Alright, so I'm in the middle of a financial dispute with a friend, and I need some outside opinions on this. This is the situation...
December 20- She asks me if I'd like to go skiing with her in February. The trip is sponsored by her work, and everything is included. At that time, I tell her I'm interested but not sure because the trip is the same week of a huge industry conference that I will most likely have to attend for my job.
January 3- My manager says I won't go to the conference, so I tell my friend I'm in for the ski trip. I ask about payment, and she says don't worry about it for now. According to the flyer she gave me, payment is due in full on January 19th. So like she says, I don't worry about it.
January 18- My manager changes his mind, says I have to go to the conference, but there is possibility I could still go on the trip. I immeditely contact my friend, and tell her that now I don't think I can go. There is a slim chance, but it's unlikely. I tell her she should ask other friends and don't count on me. At this point, I offer to refund her the deposit. I offer to refund because according to the flyer the deposit was due on January 3rd, and the final payment on January 19th. I assumed she paid the deposit, even though she never said specifically.
Last Week- She e-mails and asks if I'm still going. I say no, I can't. She writes back and says I owe her the full amount ($535) for the trip. I write her back and say, that doesn't seem fair, because I told her before the deadline that I wasn't sure, and it was her decision to pay for the both of us. Now, at no time did she ever tell me that she paid. In her e-mail, she says the money was due on January 1st, even though the flyer she gave me says the 19th. So according to her, when I told her on the 18th that I probably couldn't go afterall, it was already too late, because she had paid the full amount on the 1st.
Now to me, she jumped the gun by paying before the actual deadline. I told her I would refund the depost ($100) and nothing more, because as of January 18th, when I told her I couldn't go, that was all I thought she had paid. Again, my assumption was based on the deadlines on the flyer.
Today she told me she found another friend that can go, but can only afford to pay $260, so she wants me to make up the rest ($270). I don't know this other person, so why should I have to pay for them to go a 1/2 price ski trip? In my eyes, it's her friend, and if she really wants them to go, she should pay the extra for them to come.
On top of it all, and maybe this shouldn't matter, she makes a lot more money than I do. $270 is another outfit from Banana Republic for her, for me it's my groceries for the month.
I think I'm being more than generous by giving her $100. In my eyes, it was her responsibility to coordinate everything since her job is the sponsor. She was never clear or explicit with me about payment, so again that is her fault, not mine. If she was worried about the money, she should have collected up front or only paid for herself.
So who do you think is right? What is fair? Is she crazy to ask me to pay for her friend? Am I wrong? Do I even owe her the $100? I know all you MFP people have plenty of opinions, so share away!
December 20- She asks me if I'd like to go skiing with her in February. The trip is sponsored by her work, and everything is included. At that time, I tell her I'm interested but not sure because the trip is the same week of a huge industry conference that I will most likely have to attend for my job.
January 3- My manager says I won't go to the conference, so I tell my friend I'm in for the ski trip. I ask about payment, and she says don't worry about it for now. According to the flyer she gave me, payment is due in full on January 19th. So like she says, I don't worry about it.
January 18- My manager changes his mind, says I have to go to the conference, but there is possibility I could still go on the trip. I immeditely contact my friend, and tell her that now I don't think I can go. There is a slim chance, but it's unlikely. I tell her she should ask other friends and don't count on me. At this point, I offer to refund her the deposit. I offer to refund because according to the flyer the deposit was due on January 3rd, and the final payment on January 19th. I assumed she paid the deposit, even though she never said specifically.
Last Week- She e-mails and asks if I'm still going. I say no, I can't. She writes back and says I owe her the full amount ($535) for the trip. I write her back and say, that doesn't seem fair, because I told her before the deadline that I wasn't sure, and it was her decision to pay for the both of us. Now, at no time did she ever tell me that she paid. In her e-mail, she says the money was due on January 1st, even though the flyer she gave me says the 19th. So according to her, when I told her on the 18th that I probably couldn't go afterall, it was already too late, because she had paid the full amount on the 1st.
Now to me, she jumped the gun by paying before the actual deadline. I told her I would refund the depost ($100) and nothing more, because as of January 18th, when I told her I couldn't go, that was all I thought she had paid. Again, my assumption was based on the deadlines on the flyer.
Today she told me she found another friend that can go, but can only afford to pay $260, so she wants me to make up the rest ($270). I don't know this other person, so why should I have to pay for them to go a 1/2 price ski trip? In my eyes, it's her friend, and if she really wants them to go, she should pay the extra for them to come.
On top of it all, and maybe this shouldn't matter, she makes a lot more money than I do. $270 is another outfit from Banana Republic for her, for me it's my groceries for the month.
I think I'm being more than generous by giving her $100. In my eyes, it was her responsibility to coordinate everything since her job is the sponsor. She was never clear or explicit with me about payment, so again that is her fault, not mine. If she was worried about the money, she should have collected up front or only paid for herself.
So who do you think is right? What is fair? Is she crazy to ask me to pay for her friend? Am I wrong? Do I even owe her the $100? I know all you MFP people have plenty of opinions, so share away!
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Replies
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Come on people, what do you think?0
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your friend did say don't worry about it when you asked about a deposit. to me, she should have kept you in the loop about when she was making payments as you did w/ telling her about your work conference. i think you are being more then generous. plus you are not going on the trip so why should you pay. if the other girl goes she should pay the full amt or just get a full refund.0
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Is your friendship worth $270?
While I agree that you're right and that your friend jumped the gun & paid the fees too soon, there really isn't a good solution to this problem. If you don't pay, there will be a weirdness between you two that could eventually end the friendship, so you have to ask yourself, "Is your friendship worth $270"?0 -
Why would she pay in full on 1st January when you didnt agree to go unil 3rd January?
I think as you agreed to go you should refund her the $100 deposit but no more. If she has a friend who can go then they should share the cost less the deposit you pay.
However,I lost a friend over a very similar issue many years ago. How important is she to you? If you need to keep her in your life pay her in full.0 -
I'm confused between January 18th and here. You told her there was a slim chance you could go, but offered to refund her the deposit? If you didn't refund the deposit, then maybe she assumed you were going. I think there were too many assumptions on both parts.January 18- My manager changes his mind, says I have to go to the conference, but there is possibility I could still go on the trip. I immeditely contact my friend, and tell her that now I don't think I can go. There is a slim chance, but it's unlikely. I tell her she should ask other friends and don't count on me. At this point, I offer to refund her the deposit. I offer to refund because according to the flyer the deposit was due on January 3rd, and the final payment on January 19th. I assumed she paid the deposit, even though she never said specifically.
Last Week- She e-mails and asks if I'm still going.
You were wishy-washy, so she never should have paid in full for you. In her defense, you did send mixed messages. What seems fair to me is both of you split the cost of the mistake. So, if the total was $535 and she actually paid it, and the other friend can pay $260, y'all should split the difference and each be responsible for $137.50. Make sense?So who do you think is right? What is fair? Is she crazy to ask me to pay for her friend? Am I wrong? Do I even owe her the $100? I know all you MFP people have plenty of opinions, so share away!0 -
It seems to me that you have made up your mind on this issue so fairness is not really relevant. If you value the friendship then do what you need to do to keep it.0
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Why would she pay in full on 1st January when you didnt agree to go unil 3rd January?
I think as you agreed to go you should refund her the $100 deposit but no more. If she has a friend who can go then they should share the cost less the deposit you pay.
However,I lost a friend over a very similar issue many years ago. How important is she to you? If you need to keep her in your life pay her in full.
^^This0 -
i think you owe her the deposit, as it isn't her fault that your manager changed his mind.
ignoring the fact she has managed to find someone to go in your place (even if she does want you to put extra towards it) don't most places have cancellation policies? surely she would have been able to cancel your place and get a refund? i know some places will keep a % depending how long it takes you to cancel, but i think it would have been fairer of her to have asked for that % back rather than the full amount!0 -
Why would she pay in full on 1st January when you didnt agree to go unil 3rd January?
Yes, this.0 -
I think your friend is being ridiculous, asking you to pay 1/2 the ticket for her friend -- who you don't even know.
I would suggest paying the refund, next time you see your friend give her a box of chocolates and some flowers. Say sorry for the drama, but paying for someone else is NOT your responsibility, nor should it be. Ridiculous!0 -
Maybe I read this wrong but if your friend already paid for the entire trip (the 535 dollars) and she found someone else to go in your place...why should you have to pay anything at all? She isn't losing any money if someone else is going in your place. I think she should ask the person who took your place to pay the other half since the other friend agreed to go.
To agree with the others, why would she pay in full on 1st when you didn't give her an answer until the 3rd...that is her fault....0 -
If a person is the sponsor of a trip you tell all others if you want to go you pay this amount by this time if you don't, you don't go end of story no confusing....if you had paid by your pay date and you decide not too go then you loooossseee ya money...0
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I think you should try to talk to her again about it. Explain your side again -which everything you have said makes sense to me. Remind her that you were informed that she hadn't paid yet, in which case you are not liable for the full payment, just the deposit. Tell her that you are worried about losing a friend over something silly like this and that you having to pay that much without going is a bit of a burden on you. If she makes you pay after all of that, I would refuse. You seem like a really nice person and it would be manipulative of her to make you pay for another person to go, especially if the both of you were not fully liable according to the flyer. For the future, I would probably just say no to doing anything else that may involve you making a financial commitment in advance with this particular friend.
Good luck.0 -
You two have a communication problem.
If it were my friend, when I cancelled on the 18th I would have made sure she hadn't paid yet and cleared things up then if she had.
I also would have made sure they weren't paying anything for me from the get go without my explicit knowledge and consent.
I would absolutely not pay for someone else's ski trip. She also should have been responsible in making sure you were going to pay BEFORE she paid 500 whatever dollars.
If you feel responsible for the deposit - pay it.
Money can ruin friendships.Take a lesson from this and be clear in all future situations.0 -
Maybe I read this wrong but if your friend already paid for the entire trip (the 535 dollars) and she found someone else to go in your place...why should you have to pay anything at all? She isn't losing any money if someone else is going in your place. I think she should ask the person who took your place to pay the other half since the other friend agreed to go.
To agree with the others, why would she pay in full on 1st when you didn't give her an answer until the 3rd...that is her fault....
I agree with this. It's not like she's out any money if she found someone to go in your place, so I absolutely would not pay for her other friend to go in your place. Not a single dime. If the other friend can't afford it and your friend doesn't want to pay for her, then she shouldn't go.
And I agree you should've cleared all these details way before the payment deadline. But I am somewhat of a control freak. I cannot stand making plans with someone who volunteers to handle the details and then tells me "don't worry about it" when I check in with her to make sure I have done everything I need to do.
The bottom line, though, is that the people above are right about deciding what your friendship is worth.0 -
If someone else is going they pay the money!0
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THIS IS WHY YOU DON'T LEND MONEY TO FRIENDS, OR PAY FOR SOMEONE ELSE!!!!! If you paid the money for the trip yourself, there would be no dispute. I don't lend money, been screwed before, ruins friendships. I can give you a 100 woulda-shoulda-coulda situations, but if you had OTHER POSSIBLE COMMITMENTS, you should have declined.0
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Some people actually pay things BEFORE the deadline, which sounds like what she did. Just because YOU like to wait until the last day to do things doesn't mean that's what everyone else likes. Our ski trip was paid for months in advance and weeks before the deadline. So step out of denial and pay your friend back. You're being a jerk.0
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I think I'm being more than generous by giving her $100. In my eyes, it was her responsibility to coordinate everything since her job is the sponsor. She was never clear or explicit with me about payment, so again that is her fault, not mine. If she was worried about the money, she should have collected up front or only paid for herself.
So who do you think is right? What is fair? Is she crazy to ask me to pay for her friend? Am I wrong? Do I even owe her the $100? I know all you MFP people have plenty of opinions, so share away!
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You are being more than generous by giving her $100. . Yes it was HER responsibility and she said to you before 'don't worry about it' Don't pay for her friend.. I would not give anything at all as, according to dates, did you need to? NO..
Lesson learnt here that never mix friendship with money ..0 -
Some people actually pay things BEFORE the deadline, which sounds like what she did. Just because YOU like to wait until the last day to do things doesn't mean that's what everyone else likes. Our ski trip was paid for months in advance and weeks before the deadline. So step out of denial and pay your friend back. You're being a jerk.
There is a deadline .. cut off time.. last possible time for payment .. this is for a reason.. just because you were lucky enough to be able to pay for your ski trip before the deadline doesn't mean that others are in the same situation, don't be too judgemental.. The lady has said that her friend has more disposible income and can buy clothes whilst she has concerns over putting food on the table .. don't be nasty. Writing in capital letters is rather rude too ...0 -
Maybe I read this wrong but if your friend already paid for the entire trip (the 535 dollars) and she found someone else to go in your place...why should you have to pay anything at all? She isn't losing any money if someone else is going in your place. I think she should ask the person who took your place to pay the other half since the other friend agreed to go.
To agree with the others, why would she pay in full on 1st when you didn't give her an answer until the 3rd...that is her fault....
I agree with this. It's not like she's out any money if she found someone to go in your place, so I absolutely would not pay for her other friend to go in your place. Not a single dime. If the other friend can't afford it and your friend doesn't want to pay for her, then she shouldn't go.
And I agree you should've cleared all these details way before the payment deadline. But I am somewhat of a control freak. I cannot stand making plans with someone who volunteers to handle the details and then tells me "don't worry about it" when I check in with her to make sure I have done everything I need to do.
The bottom line, though, is that the people above are right about deciding what your friendship is worth.
^^^this... if she's having someone take your place, then why does money need to be exchanged at all? Does she only have two friends, you and this other person that can only pay half? You aren't obligated to pay half for the other friend. IF no one goes at all, you're being fair in paying her the deposit. But like above, I'm a control freak with my $$.0 -
Some people actually pay things BEFORE the deadline, which sounds like what she did. Just because YOU like to wait until the last day to do things doesn't mean that's what everyone else likes. Our ski trip was paid for months in advance and weeks before the deadline. So step out of denial and pay your friend back. You're being a jerk.
Wow!!! Assume much? How do you know she likes to wait until the last minute? Did I read her post wrong? She said it depended on work, then work said she could go, the friend then said don't worry about $$ right now, then her work says she has to go to the conference, in which she immediately told the other friend... I don't see any where she was waiting till the last minute. Being judgemental and hateful is such an ugly trait!0 -
Hate to say this, but also keep all those emails and the flyer incase she takes you to court of this. Good Luck, but I still wouldn't pay anything more than the deposit and if a friend goes in your place, I wouldn't even pay that.0
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Today she told me she found another friend that can go, but can only afford to pay $260, so she wants me to make up the rest ($270). I don't know this other person, so why should I have to pay for them to go a 1/2 price ski trip? In my eyes, it's her friend, and if she really wants them to go, she should pay the extra for them to come.
You could offer to split the cost of the remaining balance. To be fair, though, if you made the commitment, your friend shouldn't be held accountable for the balance.
Good lesson. Might be an expensive lesson, but those are the ones that you remember.
Is your friendshiop worth $270, because, regardless of how you feel this went, your friend is obviously financially responsible for the $270?0 -
First of all, your friend's financial situation shouldn't even be a consideration for you when thinking about whether to pay something you owe her back or not.
Second of all, I can imagine that she is pretty PO'ed with you if she would bring up that you pay her back for everything. Personally, I think your friend kept telling you "not to worry about it" because as you've stated, she's in a better financial position than you, and she was probably trying to minimize the sticker shock for you in order to get you to come along with her and have fun. So she did a nice thing, paid everything up front, told you not to worry about it, and then just expected you to come...and then your boss changes his mind a DAY before the final payment submission? Really? If I was your friend I would definitely be taken aback. If I were you, I would offer to at pay at least half back. And I say at least, because if I were in your position I would pay the entire thing back.0 -
in all honesty? Because she told you not to worry and you kept asking about the money and kept her in the loop about your JOB TRIP that your BOSS was FLIP-FLOPPING about, I think you are right in offering the $100 and should NOT have to pay for her friend to go on the trip. Had you had no involvement at all, would she have asked you to help her friend that you don't know to go on this trip?0
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I'm confused. When your manager told you that you didn't have to go to the conference, didn't you book the holidays at work? In which case they would have no right to change their mind and make you cancel your booked holiday.0
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Is your friendship worth $270?
While I agree that you're right and that your friend jumped the gun & paid the fees too soon, there really isn't a good solution to this problem. If you don't pay, there will be a weirdness between you two that could eventually end the friendship, so you have to ask yourself, "Is your friendship worth $270"?
^This
If you totally feel it's unfair & you're willing to lose the friendship then stand your ground. The way she went about everything isn't right but it all depends on how far you're willing to push this & if you're willing to lose her. Good luck!0 -
THIS IS WHY YOU DON'T LEND MONEY TO FRIENDS, OR PAY FOR SOMEONE ELSE!!!!! If you paid the money for the trip yourself, there would be no dispute. I don't lend money, been screwed before, ruins friendships. I can give you a 100 woulda-shoulda-coulda situations, but if you had OTHER POSSIBLE COMMITMENTS, you should have declined.
Amen - it just gets too messy. I say everyone deals with their money. Don't let friends lend you money even if you think you can pay it back or vice versa.0 -
You shouldn't have to pay. You were honest throughout, and you have an obligation to fulfill. It's not like you dissed so you can go on a better vacation. In the future, though, you might want to ask her/friends for something in writing from the travel agency or whatever entity is running the trip. That way, business doesn't get in the way of friendship.0
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