Do you think people are lacking 'class'?

The original question was not about violence or general standard of living, so I'm not sure why people keep bringing that up.

I'm also failry certain that the OP was not using the word "class" in a socio-economic context, i.e. upper, middle, lower, etc.. She was asking why being rude to each other seems to be acceptable in today's society (the words "hostile" and "angry" being used to describe those who flip people off while sitting in traffic or cursing in front of little kids at hockey games). So "class," in that sense, refers to a person's standard of behavior with regard to how he or she treats other people, not to that person's standing within society.

And here's where it blows my mind that anyone thinks "people haven't changed." Things that used to be considered completely unacceptable at all but the absolute lowest levels of society (like men cursing in front of women and kids or people wearing pajamas to the grocery store) are now commonplace at all levels of society. People HAVE changed. Nobody has any respect for anyone anymore. And as much as people rationalize their behavior under a banner of "Live, and let live," it's all a load of garbage. When a dad can't take his son or daughter to a baseball game without having to request that some inconsiderate moron behind him watch his language, it's gone way beyond minding your own business.

Civilized society requires that you take other people into consideration when you are anywhere but alone in your own home. There is nothing "civilized" about going out and mixing with other people with the attitude that you can do absolutely whatever you want and that everyone else should just leave you alone. That is the OPPOSITE of civilization. See Kant's Categorial Imperative.

This may not be popular but I believe much can be attributed to the "special snowflake" attitude that has become the norm in child upbringing over the last 20-25 years.
The idea of participation trophies and not keeping score in games so that everyone is a winner.
I get trying to establish self esteem but I think that has to come from self respect not an artificial atmosphere that is not the reality of life where there are winners and losers,successes and failures.

The whole thing has led IMO to people that can`t understand or cope with the fact that sometimes things go wrong or not as we wish them to.
Now the expectation is that whatever has happened must be made right by someone instantly because that is what is owed.
When that doesn`t happen the reaction is anger,impatience and a need to lash out.

I completely agree with this ^^ and this was the era I was raised in, however, my parents did not raise me this way and my son will not by brought up that way.

Yes. I do. But we will raise our boys to be men. Yes mam and No Sir. Thank you and can I help you with that. They know to give up there seat for an adult. Woman are not called names but cherished and respected. There Dad has the last say and money doesn't grow on trees. They know that a day may come where they have to fight for family and or country. And If it does, they won't do it with pants sagging half way down their behinds. A's and b's are expected. As one day hard work will be. Strict? Old fashioned? Yes.

Amen!!!!

I couldnt help but sit here and chuckle. My family went out last evening and I had 3diff people come up to me and state that my 3yr old boy was way to polite. My reply was what do u want him to do run around the returant and say naughty words instead of sitting here quietly using his manners. They walked away. WTF??? We r raising him to use manners, be respectful, polite, and do whats right and I get ?ed about it. Yes my son is over polite but I would rather have that then some of the kids out there.
Alot plays into how we r as a socity now adays. There is our up bringing, media, friends, ect. In a whole it can b resolved if more people cared.

there is no doubt it has been in a downward spiral decade by decade

I also believe that kids nowadays are spoiled, I put my self through school, paid off all my school debt, bought my first car on my own, bought my first cell phone at 18 when i was legally able to do so and paid the bills myself, moved from Vancouver to Ontario using my own money and paid off 11k debt in 1 year, made my first adult purchase of an equinox on my own credit and half way to paying it off in one year, now saving for a house all by the age of 27, and if i didn't have the right parents growing up teaching me how to behave and live properly I don't think I would have done all this and had the great feeling of accomplishment i have now, oh i forgot to mention doing all this while having 2 kids lol

People have been whining about how awful the younger generation is since at least Roman times.

In many ways, society today is a lot better than the 50s that people remember through the gauzy golden haze of nostalgia. But for anybody but middle- and upper-class straight white men, things have definitely gotten better in the last half a century.

I recently read "The Better Angels of Our Nature," which examines in detail how much less violent and "civilized" our society is today than at any time in history: less war, less interpersonal violence, less violence against children and animals. If we have to lose some snob's idea of "class" to make a fairer and less violent society, so be it.

"Better Angel's of Our Nature: Why Violence has Declined," by Steven Pinker.

http://www.amazon.com/Better-Angels-Our-Nature-Violence/dp/0670022950/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1329496361&sr=1-1

From a review:

The final trend Pinker discusses is the “rights revolution,” the revulsion against violence inflicted on ethnic minorities, women, children, homosexuals and animals that has developed over the past half-century. Pinker is not, of course, arguing that these movements have achieved their goals, but he reminds us how far we have come in a relatively short time from the days when lynchings were commonplace in the South; domestic violence was tolerated to such a degree that a 1950s ad could show a husband with his wife over his knees, spanking her for failing to buy the right brand of coffee. . . .

"http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/09/books/review/the-better-angels-of-our-nature-by-steven-pinker-book-review.html?pagewanted=all"

Whining? Thats how you see our conversation? Pfft. The topic was not is there more violence? But since you brought it up... I spent 10 years as a police officer.The last 2 as an investigator. From experiance, I would have rather of delt with a 45 50 year old then a 15-20 year old. Now this was a good 12-14 years ago. Not only the mouth on alot (not all) of them but because they would just as soon fight you as look at you. It is getting worse. Do you think everyone on here has fallen for a myth. Do you think I can not remember growing up? That my grandmother is just senile because she can not believe how rude children have become? ( Again,not all) I respect this guy Pinker's harvard degree and all. I think it's awsome TED interviewed him. But, I answered this topic from what I know.Personally. She ask," Do YOU think people are lacking class" I think , for the most part, yes.

People have been whining about how awful the younger generation is since at least Roman times.

In many ways, society today is a lot better than the 50s that people remember through the gauzy golden haze of nostalgia. But for anybody but middle- and upper-class straight white men, things have definitely gotten better in the last half a century.

I recently read "The Better Angels of Our Nature," which examines in detail how much less violent and "civilized" our society is today than at any time in history: less war, less interpersonal violence, less violence against children and animals. If we have to lose some snob's idea of "class" to make a fairer and less violent society, so be it.

"Better Angel's of Our Nature: Why Violence has Declined," by Steven Pinker.

http://www.amazon.com/Better-Angels-Our-Nature-Violence/dp/0670022950/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1329496361&sr=1-1

From a review:

The final trend Pinker discusses is the “rights revolution,” the revulsion against violence inflicted on ethnic minorities, women, children, homosexuals and animals that has developed over the past half-century. Pinker is not, of course, arguing that these movements have achieved their goals, but he reminds us how far we have come in a relatively short time from the days when lynchings were commonplace in the South; domestic violence was tolerated to such a degree that a 1950s ad could show a husband with his wife over his knees, spanking her for failing to buy the right brand of coffee. . . .

"http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/09/books/review/the-better-angels-of-our-nature-by-steven-pinker-book-review.html?pagewanted=all"

Whining? Thats how you see our conversation? Pfft. The topic was not is there more violence? But since you brought it up... I spent 10 years as a police officer.The last 2 as an investigator. From experiance, I would have rather of delt with a 45 50 year old then a 15-20 year old. Now this was a good 12-14 years ago. Not only the mouth on alot (not all) of them but because they would just as soon fight you as look at you. It is getting worse. Do you think everyone on here has fallen for a myth. Do you think I can not remember growing up? That my grandmother is just senile because she can not believe how rude children have become? ( Again,not all) I respect this guy Pinker's harvard degree and all. I think it's awsome TED interviewed him. But, I answered this topic from what I know.Personally. She ask," Do YOU think people are lacking class" I think , for the most part, yes.

Now those 12-14 year olds would just as much kill you as look at you. They don't understand the consequenses of their actions and no one at home to hold them accountable. It's disgusting and very scary

Of course, people have every right to whine. I know you youngins can't help it: you were brought up by permissive parents who treated you each as a special unique snowflake, so you never learned to respect your elders.

But if you must whine, GET OFF MY LAWN!

I work in a middle school. That alone should say enough! Being around those children, I have come to believe, it's the parents whose actions, or lack of, are teaching their children to act the same way. I have 5 children myself....3 are in middle school, 2 in elementary. I also believe it goes back a generation or 2. Somewhere along the line someone dropped the ball & it has escalated from there. I'm not bashing anyone or pointing fingers but respect has a huge part in this.

^^This^^ It all goes back to the narcissistic parenting style that really caught on with the GenXers and snowballed from there. You can tell the problem isn't caused by the teachers when you watch parents interact (or not) with their children in any public place. I fly a lot, and most parents who bring their kids on a plane could care less if there child is screaming, kicking the seats in front of them, throwing food around, and God forbid you say something about it. They have the 'right' to ruin the flight for all of the other passengers, because it's all about "Me Me Me". "My rights are important, you don't have any". You see the same thing in stores - it's ok for the kids to run around screaming, knocking into people, damaging the store merchandise, etc... and the parents completely tune them out. But they're the loudest out there on the front lines screaming about how you better not infringe on their rights to do whatever they want, whenever they want, even if it infringes on other people's rights. They don't have respect for other people (questionable as to whether they have respect for themselves), and they teach their kids the same thing.

Civility and class are really based on having some consideration for others, and thinking of someone besides yourself. Unfortunately, it only seems to be getting worse, and I can't imagine what it would take to turn it around.

I've had my children in stores and on a plane & care about how they act in public. On the plane, I had things for them to do for the entire ride. In stores, they just know better! It all comes down to parenting or lack of. I agree with you....it's not teachers' faults at all. It all begins in the home. So sad.

Whining? Thats how you see our conversation? Pfft. The topic was not is there more violence? But since you brought it up... I spent 10 years as a police officer.The last 2 as an investigator. From experiance, I would have rather of delt with a 45 50 year old then a 15-20 year old. Now this was a good 12-14 years ago.

15-20 year-olds have always been more violent than 45-50 year olds. The question is whether today's 15-20 year-olds are more violent than the 15-20 year-olds of thirty years ago. All the statistics say no. Violent crime is down quite a bit from thirty years ago, and most of that is due to a decline in youth violence.

Do I see all this talk about how awful today's children are as whining? Yep, pretty much. And people have been doing it for time immemorial.

Children nowadays are tyrants. They contradict their parents, gobble their food and tyrannise their teachers. --Socrates

Quit upsetting people with your pesky facts!

The original question was not about violence or general standard of living, so I'm not sure why people keep bringing that up.

I'm also failry certain that the OP was not using the word "class" in a socio-economic context, i.e. upper, middle, lower, etc.. She was asking why being rude to each other seems to be acceptable in today's society (the words "hostile" and "angry" being used to describe those who flip people off while sitting in traffic or cursing in front of little kids at hockey games). So "class," in that sense, refers to a person's standard of behavior with regard to how he or she treats other people, not to that person's standing within society.

And here's where it blows my mind that anyone thinks "people haven't changed." Things that used to be considered completely unacceptable at all but the absolute lowest levels of society (like men cursing in front of women and kids or people wearing pajamas to the grocery store) are now commonplace at all levels of society. People HAVE changed. Nobody has any respect for anyone anymore. And as much as people rationalize their behavior under a banner of "Live, and let live," it's all a load of garbage. When a dad can't take his son or daughter to a baseball game without having to request that some inconsiderate moron behind him watch his language, it's gone way beyond minding your own business.

Civilized society requires that you take other people into consideration when you are anywhere but alone in your own home. There is nothing "civilized" about going out and mixing with other people with the attitude that you can do absolutely whatever you want and that everyone else should just leave you alone. That is the OPPOSITE of civilization. See Kant's Categorial Imperative.

Very well put. And great post reference to Kant's Categorical Imperative.

Thank you for saying this. I was not pertaining to class in a socio-economic context at all. Was refering to class as in manners, civility, integrity, and character.

I do agree that it has to start with the children. There are too many lazy parents who won't put in the time to teach/nurture their kids so one day they will be adults who have those important attributes I mentioned above. But with that said, as adults we are responsible for ourselves, and if an adult has nothing but hostility towards others and is consistantly in a self-entitled mind-- unfortunately the cycle will continue.

By reading the responses, not only do we lack class as a society - not enough money is invested in our educational system!

I don't think it's up to teachers to raise their students. The job starts at home. A child that learns manners at home will be better equipped to behave in the classroom.

I couldnt help but sit here and chuckle. My family went out last evening and I had 3diff people come up to me and state that my 3yr old boy was way to polite. My reply was what do u want him to do run around the returant and say naughty words instead of sitting here quietly using his manners. They walked away. WTF??? We r raising him to use manners, be respectful, polite, and do whats right and I get ?ed about it. Yes my son is over polite but I would rather have that then some of the kids out there.
Alot plays into how we r as a socity now adays. There is our up bringing, media, friends, ect. In a whole it can b resolved if more people cared.

My husband and I make a point to stop by a table and compliment a family with well-behaved children whenever we're out. I think of it as positive reinforcement since most of the time all you hear is negativity. I'm sorry that you chose to respond that way. A polite 'thank you' might have been a more appropriate (and mannerly) response.