Why I'm not for cardio and resistance concurrently

SHBoss1673 · February 2012

So, a lot of people on here like to condense their workouts into a long session consisting both of cardiovascular workouts and also resistance (weight training usually) work. I've been against it for a while, for a multitude of reasons. My main reason is because they compete for resources in the body, thus neither allowing for full results. I've always been a champion of this idea, but while I know the chemistry behind the hormonal response, convincing others with less metabolic knowledge was a tad difficult.

Well, here you go folks, I finally found a research study that backs up my concepts, it's relatively recent (from 2005) and statistically relevant to my beliefs that you should never do hard cardio and weight training in the same session, and if at all possible, not in the same day either. Anyway, here's the research to back my results up.
here's a link to the research:
http://www.jssm.org/vol4/n1/10/v4n1-10pdf.pdf

Title:
RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN CIRCULATING CORTISOL AND TESTOSTERONE: INFLUENCE OF PHYSICAL EXERCISE
Kaye K. Brownlee, Alex W. Moore and Anthony C. Hackney
originally published in : Journal of Sports Science and Medicine (2005) 4, 76-83

I'll make special note of the first part of the conclusion by the researchers here:

"In conclusion, there are statistically significant relationships between cortisol and testosterone in humans in the recovery from physical exercise. Previous results demonstrate pharmacological levels of cortisol have a highly significant negative effect on circulating testosterone concentrations (Bambino and Hsueh, 1981; Cumming et al.,1983). Exercise appears to allow for the development of a similar negative relationship between cortisol and total testosterone (although not an extremely robust
association)."

essentially what this paper says is that in the post exercise recovery phase (up to about an hour after the exercise), cortisol essentially counteracts the effects of testosterone in the body, which means drastically reduced muscle building and recovery function. If you do cardio, this is not a problem as there's no statistical increase in muscle mass anyway, thus no need for elevated testosterone levels, but after a heavy resistance session where the goal is hypertrophy or otherwise increasing muscle mass, the first hour post exercise is the time when testosterone levels would be the highest, thereby generating the most muscle recovery and growth. In other words, if you do both, you're reducing the results of both.

Besides my other contentions with regards to mixed exercise types (those being, competition for energy in the form of glycogen, reduced actin-myocin bridge reaction because of increased need and depletion of calcium in the muscle site, and increased need for oxygen at the non-rebuilding muscles when in cardiovascular sub-maximal conditions), this additional research really presses home the point that you should separate your workouts, giving at LEAST an 8 hour separation to allow for hormone levels to recover and glycogen levels to be replenished before attempting an alternate exercise routine.

If all of this information is way over your head, here's the layman's synopsis:
Doing both weight training and cardio in the same session makes your body battle for resources, your weight training muscles want the resources to repair the muscles you worked out, and the cardio muscles need other hormones and resouces that fight against those weight training hormones and resources, add that to the fact that cardio depletes the energy that you need to fuel the rebuilding process, and you have reduced results from both, meaning that the results you THINK you're getting aren't going to be there.

just thought I'd throw this out there guys,

feel free to PM (<-- means personal message) me if you have any specific questions on this topic.

-Banks

SIDE NOTES:
-This topic isn't referring to warm up and cool down before weight training, I'm in full agreement with a 5 to 10 minute warm up and cool down
-This only refers to heavy weight training, I.E. hypertrophy or failure training for mass building, not high rep, low weight workouts (I.E. 15 to 30 reps or more per set)

zafferFL · February 2012

I agree, but studies aside, it makes sense to me that if you are working hard enough at one, you should not have any energy for the other.

I keep seeing diaries where someone will do 45 minutes of strength followed by an hour of cardio. Neither is being done effectively. 45 mins of strength training should leave someone wanting to take a nap, not take a zumba class.

dad106 · February 2012

I agree with both of you.. When I get done with my strength training program, the last thing I want to do is go hop on a treadmill for 20 minutes like it suggests...

What I do want to do is sit down, drink a protein shake and recover!

Smuterella · February 2012

What about strength training then cardio a few hours later?

JennLifts · February 2012

What about strength training then cardio a few hours later?

He said AT LEAST an 8 hr gap, but preferably a different day.

tabinmaine · February 2012

depends on the strength routine, if it's a few exercises at max weight you can do for 4 sets of 5, and then you do cardio , you should be able to do both.....

If it's a full body workout or 2 body parts with 12 exercises with isolation, then no, you will probably or should be exhausted..

No need for those though.... squat, bench, row and deadlift, that just about covers it !!

savvystephy · February 2012

Thanks, Banks! Great info! :-)

zafferFL · February 2012

depends on the strength routine, if it's a few exercises at max weight you can do for 4 sets of 5, and then you do cardio , you should be able to do both.....

If it's a full body workout or 2 body parts with 12 exercises with isolation, then no, you will probably or should be exhausted..

No need for those though.... squat, bench, row and deadlift, that just about covers it !!

You're not going heavy enough if you can do cardio, period.

carrie_eggo · February 2012

45 mins of strength training should leave someone wanting to take a nap, not take a zumba class.

I knew I was doing something right.....

Thanks for this post!

tabinmaine · February 2012

depends on the strength routine, if it's a few exercises at max weight you can do for 4 sets of 5, and then you do cardio , you should be able to do both.....

If it's a full body workout or 2 body parts with 12 exercises with isolation, then no, you will probably or should be exhausted..

No need for those though.... squat, bench, row and deadlift, that just about covers it !!

You're not going heavy enough if you can do cardio, period.

well that's funny because I can barely get 4 reps or squeeze out a 5th rep and keep good form, don't think I can do any heavier than that. lol should I add 50lbs and do 2reps ?

you can ALWAYS still do cardio, it's mind over matter, its will, it's kicking my own *kitten*.....

Yanicka1 · February 2012

that is exactly what i was doing. Intuitively, it was making sens to me.

Smuterella · February 2012

What about strength training then cardio a few hours later?

He said AT LEAST an 8 hr gap, but preferably a different day.

Sorry, missed that. I shouldn't post BC (before caffeine)

IronmanPanda · February 2012

What about that time I swam 1.2 miles then biked 56 and then finished it off with a 1/2 marathon? Oh wait... that's just me being a bad *kitten*.

tross0924 · February 2012

I wanted to ask what you thought about the part of the study that indicated a positive relationship between the exercise induced cortisol levels and the amount of free testosterone.

Since the fT seems to be more relevant to the production of new muscle fibers, wouldn't this in fact be a good thing? They were unable to conclude why the cortisol levels effected TT and fT in this way, but if the cortisol limits the binding ability of the SHBG allowing more testosterone to be utilized by the muscles despite having a lower total, how is that bad?

eta - * honestly I really don't know enough about blood serum and how it relates to muscle production, so I'm not trying to be a **** or anything, I actually would like to be educated if you have a minute.

DL121004 · February 2012

-This only refers to heavy weight training, I.E. hypertrophy or failure training for mass building, not high rep, low weight workouts (I.E. 15 to 30 reps or more per set)

Wish I had read this first.

SHBoss1673 · February 2012

depends on the strength routine, if it's a few exercises at max weight you can do for 4 sets of 5, and then you do cardio , you should be able to do both.....

If it's a full body workout or 2 body parts with 12 exercises with isolation, then no, you will probably or should be exhausted..

No need for those though.... squat, bench, row and deadlift, that just about covers it !!

no, in fact this is the exact worst time to do both. Any time you're going to failure you're creating microtears that require repair. Repair requires not only testosterone, HGH, and IGF-2, but also an increased level of energy for extended periods (8 to 24 hours, longer for the really large muscle groups in the legs), doing weight training first, means you should be done for the day. If you wanted to do both with an 8 or more hour gap, I would strongly advise doing cardio first, then weight training, cardio has no repair time, thus when your energy is replenished (usually within an hour) and your hormones are recovered (usually within 2 to 4 hours) then you should be fine to do resistance.

SHBoss1673 · February 2012

I wanted to ask what you thought about the part of the study that indicated a positive relationship between the exercise induced cortisol levels and the amount of free testosterone.

Since the fT seems to be more relevant to the production of new muscle fibers, wouldn't this in fact be a good thing? They were unable to conclude why the cortisol levels effected TT and fT in this way, but if the cortisol limits the binding ability of the SHBG allowing more testosterone to be utilized by the muscles despite having a lower total, how is that bad?

eta - * honestly I really don't know enough about blood serum and how it relates to muscle production, so I'm not trying to be a **** or anything, I actually would like to be educated if you have a minute.

you bring up a good point. And it's one that we should be absolutely clear on. Yes, the exercise induces both cortisol and testosterone increases, BUT, the problem there is that cortisol chemically similar to testosterone, and even though you're producing more testosterone, the cortisol levels are also going up, and since they are similar, cell receptors will accept both hormones in the same receptors, thus while total levels go up, cell reception of testosterone goes way down. It's similar to what happens during insulin resistance (but for different reasons) and type-2 diabetes, cells stop accepting the hormone, thus no matter how much your body produces, it is being flushed out and wasted.

tross0924 · February 2012

I wanted to ask what you thought about the part of the study that indicated a positive relationship between the exercise induced cortisol levels and the amount of free testosterone.

Since the fT seems to be more relevant to the production of new muscle fibers, wouldn't this in fact be a good thing? They were unable to conclude why the cortisol levels effected TT and fT in this way, but if the cortisol limits the binding ability of the SHBG allowing more testosterone to be utilized by the muscles despite having a lower total, how is that bad?

eta - * honestly I really don't know enough about blood serum and how it relates to muscle production, so I'm not trying to be a **** or anything, I actually would like to be educated if you have a minute.

you bring up a good point. And it's one that we should be absolutely clear on. Yes, the exercise induces both cortisol and testosterone increases, BUT, the problem there is that cortisol chemically similar to testosterone, and even though you're producing more testosterone, the cortisol levels are also going up, and since they are similar, cell receptors will accept both hormones in the same receptors, thus while total levels go up, cell reception of testosterone goes way down. It's similar to what happens during insulin resistance (but for different reasons) and type-2 diabetes, cells stop accepting the hormone, thus no matter how much your body produces, it is being flushed out and wasted.

Ah. That makes sense. Thanks for taking the time to explain it to me.

SHBoss1673 · February 2012

I wanted to ask what you thought about the part of the study that indicated a positive relationship between the exercise induced cortisol levels and the amount of free testosterone.

Since the fT seems to be more relevant to the production of new muscle fibers, wouldn't this in fact be a good thing? They were unable to conclude why the cortisol levels effected TT and fT in this way, but if the cortisol limits the binding ability of the SHBG allowing more testosterone to be utilized by the muscles despite having a lower total, how is that bad?

eta - * honestly I really don't know enough about blood serum and how it relates to muscle production, so I'm not trying to be a **** or anything, I actually would like to be educated if you have a minute.

you bring up a good point. And it's one that we should be absolutely clear on. Yes, the exercise induces both cortisol and testosterone increases, BUT, the problem there is that cortisol chemically similar to testosterone, and even though you're producing more testosterone, the cortisol levels are also going up, and since they are similar, cell receptors will accept both hormones in the same receptors, thus while total levels go up, cell reception of testosterone goes way down. It's similar to what happens during insulin resistance (but for different reasons) and type-2 diabetes, cells stop accepting the hormone, thus no matter how much your body produces, it is being flushed out and wasted.

Ah. That makes sense. Thanks for taking the time to explain it to me.

my pleasure, never feel bad about a good question. It takes a real lot to bother me anyway, you'd have to start being overtly offensive to me to bother me. I love a good debate, and have no qualms about being wrong, and will wholeheartedly admit it when I am.

Dave198lbs · February 2012

is this advice more geared to builders looking to gain mass?

does the very obese person using resistance training to simply try and preserve muscle while losing weight need to apply this theory?

HauteP1nk · February 2012

Interesting article.

Personally though I think it all just depends on your goals, your schedule and your preferences. Each person has to experiment with workouts/types/times and see what works best for them...

I don't think the two necessarily need to be seperated...

Cardio consists of any exercise that gets your heart rate up... Since I think jumping on a treadmill or elliptical can be mind-numbing and boring what I do is incorporate a lot of weighted cardio & calisthenics into my circuit and interval training. This way you are getting your heart rate up AND builing both strength and muscle endurance. This works for me, but not everyone....

Why I'm not for cardio and resistance concurrently

Replies

Categories