Low fat Ketogenic Diet - Observations

Jambe
Jambe Posts: 58 Member
edited November 12 in Food and Nutrition
Okay, for anyone familiar with the diet it's basically <30g Carbs a day, 1-1.2g Protein per lb, ~25g Fat ( majority from fish oil / flaxseed oil whatever you prefer ) I also take 3 EC stack doses a day. Multivitamin, calcium, fish oil, vita c.

This REALLY limits what you can eat. Basically, lean meats, fish, canned tuna, veggies low in starches, protein powders. My meals generally consist of 8-10egg whites for breakfast with some Tabasco and spices. My lunch consists of about 16oz of light tuna with mustard and pickles. I fill in through the day with 3 scoops of protein mix ( 81g protein ) On days where I workout I drink 1/2 of that after I finish. Dinner is some lean meat and steamed veggies generally. Some days I just sub the tuna for a 2nd protein drink. Doesn't matter when you eat, just keep track ;) ( except for protein after working out of course )

I've been in and out of ketosis before, but never for as long as I have this time. Going on my 3rd week. My observations so far.

You have to pee. A lot. Like, really a lot. Ketosis + no carbs = peeing after every 32 oz water pretty much. This kind of sucks for me as I am a courier. Planning when I can drink around times I'll be at an area with unlocked bathrooms kinda sucks, but, meh.

You don't have BM as often. Cause. Really, there's not a whole lot of waste. I get my fiber from all the veggies I eat but still your body uses a lot of what you're putting in it seems :p

You get much more accurate scale readings due to basically no water retention. I'm drinking anywhere from 2-3 gallons of water a day. It's always gone by the next morning. Not that this matters that much. Just an observation. I gauge by my waist/tone, anyhow.

You can target body fat loss while maintaining muscle mass/performance on a calorie deficit. I've actually been maintaining or increasing the weights ( if only slightly ) I can do at the gym and my cardio while on the diet. There is a catch to this though- you need to consume some glucose tablets or candy prior to workout. I take 2 10 minutes prior and then 1 1/2 way through. Without these tablets, my muscles feel..it's not sore.... just "exhausted." It is hard to explain. I also take longer to recover. Used to recover in 1 day ( maintenance ). Now takes 2-3. ( deficit )

I've lost a little over 4 lbs of FAT in 14 days. I can start to see the lining on my 2nd row of abs now :D

Mouth tastes weird :( I find myself sucking on 0 carb mints all day when I won't be near a bathroom and can't drink. I'm also very thirsty! Insatiable is a good word for it ;p

Mentally I am full of energy. Physically? My legs/arms feel kind of like they are exhausted when I use them. I assume they are still getting used to running off of ketones and not quite adapted to being devoid of glycogen, yet. Supposed to take 3 weeks.

Easier to wake up. Easier to fall asleep. Dunno why, just is. Just snaps in and snaps out :)

Anyhow, this is what it's been like for me so far. I am kind of on a budget as well, as there are things I'd just love to eat but are just expensive and not really...viable for on-the-go lunch/snack. Most of what I eat is based off how efficient it is cost-wise. Protein, chicken, tuna, and egg whites are all very similar in efficiency for nutrients for cost. If you buy in bulk, that is.

Seems like it's effective :) I actually lost MORE the 2nd week than the 1st.
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Replies

  • dinosnopro
    dinosnopro Posts: 2,177 Member
    I have done this twice for a total of ten weeks. are you fallowing Lyle McDonalds plan? I will honestly say the second time was for four weeks and should have stopped at two or three. It takes tons of will power and I wouldn't advise it for everyone. I loved it though, I lost about 25 pounds and 10% or more of body fat. ( currently 185 lbs about 13% bf) what was your lifting routine like?



    forgot to add this. Be prepared for attacks, this is not a popular means of weight loss on here
    ,
  • bodyrocks365
    bodyrocks365 Posts: 81
    This is an extremely difficult diet! I don't have the willpower and I think it would be too lean a diet for me. You're already lowering cals going low fat, to drastically reduce carbs too basically leaves you with lean protein and veggies. I wouldn't live! Good luck to you. :)
  • suziecue66
    suziecue66 Posts: 1,312 Member
    Ketogenic diets are usually low carb, high fat. Arevyou doing Lyle's Rapid Fat Loss?


    "On average, caloric intakes on this diet will come out to between 400 to 1200 calories per day coming almost exclusively from protein. For those of you familiar with ketogenic (low- carbohydrate, high-fat) diets, a PSMF is essentially a ketogenic diet without the dietary fat. Obviously, this will represent a fairly large caloric deficit; how large depending on your starting body weight and activity levels."

    PSMF - Protein Sparing Modified Fast
    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/the-rapid-fat-loss-handbook
  • Jambe
    Jambe Posts: 58 Member
    Yes I have read a majority of Lyle's stuff and have been following it. Or as best as I can. It IS difficult. I did a little 7 day test just to see if I could manage prior to this one. I was able to transition fairly well into maintenance for 2-3 weeks before finally going back onto this. I did gain a lb or so, but I was lifting more heavily during that period. ;)

    Funny thing- I actually workout much less than I used to. Simply because I can't handle it :p And it's more effective. At least, fat loss wise...

    I'm a cat 2. Probably closer to 1 than 3, though.I have a feeling I'm gonna be stuck with this "loose skin" problem on my belly though for a while, regardless. Skin has to catch up :p

    My routine wasn't anything special. Just the standard Shoulder/back/bi one day and then Chest/tri/legs another. 4 sets of 10s. Couple rest days between. Repeat when not too sore/tired and time permits :p 20 mins of bike and 20mins of laps afterwards. Abs/obliques every day. I stopped running.

    Oh, funny thing. When I slow down too much during lap swimming now I friggin start to sink! I used to be able to coast pretty easily at a slow speed... :p Guess that fat was good for something after all... buoyancy!
  • Barracuda365
    Barracuda365 Posts: 37
    I started a low carb high protein diet and after a few days my breath was like a rotting corpse. My wife was disgusted by it and actually couldnt be near me.

    What is the cause of this ?

    thansk
  • PaleoPath4Lyfe
    PaleoPath4Lyfe Posts: 3,161 Member
    More power to you and happy to see it is working for you. I am not satisfied with low carb and low fat and only high protein.

    The way that works for me and leaves me satisfied is high fat, moderate protein, lower / controlled carb.
  • dinosnopro
    dinosnopro Posts: 2,177 Member
    There were a couple of times that going into ketosis was a bit rough, by the end you are way more aware of body function and feel. Now I can about guess what I will weight on any given day. You also become way more aware of your macros, and the best way to obtain them.

    I am at about a cat 1 now. I am thinking about doing it here again soon ( just 14 days though) I finally got a four pack the last time, but I want the rest to come in faster (currently doing a body recomp ) I can feel them under there, feels like I will end up with an eight pack. I've been told that an eight pack looks better than a six pack but I think it will look funny.
  • LATeagno
    LATeagno Posts: 620 Member
    I started a low carb high protein diet and after a few days my breath was like a rotting corpse. My wife was disgusted by it and actually couldnt be near me.

    What is the cause of this ?

    thansk

    Ketosis can make your breath smell foul. Ketones are emited in urine, sweat and saliva.
  • johannajebediah
    johannajebediah Posts: 55 Member
    how can you be sure your body is in Ketosis? I've been following a high-protein, low-carb diet for a few days, and I don't know when ketosis will begin...thanks!
  • hkmamma
    hkmamma Posts: 70
    to find out if you are in Ketosis you can buy over the counter urine dip sticks. Look near the diabetic supplies
  • grinch031
    grinch031 Posts: 1,679
    Unless you have a lot of fat to lose, this is probably a bad idea because it is very low calorie and will create a huge deficit.
  • thelowcarbrecipes
    thelowcarbrecipes Posts: 89 Member
    I find this a bit hard to understand, I always thought that a ketogenic diet is a high-fat, adequate-protein, low-carbohydrate diet

    If your getting trying this but with low carb, wont your body just turn the High protein your intake into glucose for energy ?

    Im not 100% sure on this tho but I have had a lot of success following the 60% fat, 35% protein and 5% carbs ketogenic diet.
  • grinch031
    grinch031 Posts: 1,679
    I find this a bit hard to understand, I always thought that a ketogenic diet is a high-fat, adequate-protein, low-carbohydrate diet

    If your getting trying this but with low carb, wont your body just turn the High protein your intake into glucose for energy ?

    Im not 100% sure on this tho but I have had a lot of success following the 60% fat, 35% protein and 5% carbs ketogenic diet.

    There is a delicate balance of protein. I've read usually 150-200g of protein (depending on exercise) is pretty much the range of protein to stay in ketosis. Otherwise too much will get converted to glucose and take you out of ketosis. The whole purpose for eating high-fat is to keep your total caloric intake high enough to prevent metabolic resistance to the diet.
  • MrDude_1
    MrDude_1 Posts: 2,510 Member
    Mentally I am full of energy. Physically? My legs/arms feel kind of like they are exhausted when I use them. I assume they are still getting used to running off of ketones and not quite adapted to being devoid of glycogen, yet. Supposed to take 3 weeks.

    taking some creatine everyday should help this... BUT you will be very thirsty the first couple days you take it.
    Then again, with your current water intake/output.. you may feel the same, but just pee less.. lol.
  • jaxson65
    jaxson65 Posts: 30 Member
    You should do the Dukan Diet which is what I am on. It is high in protein and low in carbs. You will do ketosis with this particular diet. I know what you mean about the exhaustion bit but I can honestly say that after the initial one week attack phase I don't feel as drained as you describe but there again walking is only recommended as it has the same efficient use of calories if not more than doing an aerobic workout. I too also sleep well on this diet and wake up fine, I think I do need more sleep than normal but still only do eight hours. For more information go online to Dukan website but you don't have to join which I didn't and I bought the book off Amazon. Add me as a friend if you are interested. I have lost 27lbs in six/seven weeks and I log in everyday everything that I eat. It doesn't recommend protein powders at all on this diet so you would need to up your tuna, salmon, chicken etc. These are all in unlimited quantities too. I am now on the cruise phase 2 and it is now one day protein only/second day protein and vegetables.
  • TinaDay1114
    TinaDay1114 Posts: 1,328 Member
    I'm new to this idea -- is the goal to get cut like for a competition? Or is this supposed to become a routine way of life?
  • MrDude_1
    MrDude_1 Posts: 2,510 Member
    I'm new to this idea -- is the goal to get cut like for a competition? Or is this supposed to become a routine way of life?

    its usually used to get to a goal.
    alot of people forget that what you do to change can be totally different then what you live with for maintenance....
  • LilRedRooster
    LilRedRooster Posts: 1,421 Member
    Well, the main issue with that diet isn't the calories themselves; it's putting your body into an effect where your brain is relying ketones for an extended period of time for energy. While the brain can use the ketones and function, it is not as effective as using glucose, because glucose is the brain's preferred energy source in any situation. Ketones are supposed to be backup for when glucose supplies are super-low, and it's not designed to be an extended thing.

    So really, using this diet to get a specific goal in a shorter period of time would be effective, because your body could adapt to the situation for a period, but it is not something that's designed to be done long-term, because your brain is not wired to be able to handle ketones for extended periods of time. Which means that once your done, it would be very hard to maintain the results, unless you go through the diet in cycles.
  • lisabmcd
    lisabmcd Posts: 4 Member
    Ketogenic diets are not meant to be followed long-term. Ketones are by-products of fat metabolism; technically weak acids. When ketones build up in the blood they make the blood acidic, and this can be detrimental to yur health.
  • MrDude_1
    MrDude_1 Posts: 2,510 Member
    Ketogenic diets are not meant to be followed long-term. Ketones are by-products of fat metabolism; technically weak acids. When ketones build up in the blood they make the blood acidic, and this can be detrimental to yur health.

    actually ketogenic diets dont change blood ph.... but theres a similar named disease that does.. people, including doctors, get it confused all the time.. to the point that you can find articles with it mentioned.

    if your blood ph really did change measurably, it would be life threatening.
  • lisabmcd
    lisabmcd Posts: 4 Member
    Your breath smelled awful because your body was breaking down fats for fuel. The by-products of fat metabolism are ketones. Ketones are weak acids, and thus you described perfectly what is known as "ketone breath". In addition if ketones build up in your blood, your blood will become acidic , and this can be detrimental to your health.
  • grinch031
    grinch031 Posts: 1,679
    Your breath smelled awful because your body was breaking down fats for fuel. The by-products of fat metabolism are ketones. Ketones are weak acids, and thus you described perfectly what is known as "ketone breath". In addition if ketones build up in your blood, your blood will become acidic , and this can be detrimental to your health.

    Stop repeating this nonsense. The only people who need to worry about that is Type I diabetics and alcoholics.
  • dinosnopro
    dinosnopro Posts: 2,177 Member
    Well, the main issue with that diet isn't the calories themselves; it's putting your body into an effect where your brain is relying ketones for an extended period of time for energy. While the brain can use the ketones and function, it is not as effective as using glucose, because glucose is the brain's preferred energy source in any situation. Ketones are supposed to be backup for when glucose supplies are super-low, and it's not designed to be an extended thing.

    So really, using this diet to get a specific goal in a shorter period of time would be effective, because your body could adapt to the situation for a period, but it is not something that's designed to be done long-term, because your brain is not wired to be able to handle ketones for extended periods of time. Which means that once your done, it would be very hard to maintain the results, unless you go through the diet in cycles.


    length of time that it can be carried out depends on how much body fat you have to lose, the higher th bf% the longer one can stay on the diet. That being said most would not recomend going over 4 weeks or so without a break, then eat at maintenance calories for a couple of weeks and then restart. One has to bear in mind that as you lose the fat you have to reduce the lenth of time you are on the diet. I did this two times, I droped my bf% by about 10% and ate at my maintenance calories for two weeks to let my body "balance back out" now I eat at a small deficit and lift weights (lifted the whole time I was on the diet also) and I am still losing body fat just at a slower pace ( doing a body recomp now) I will say the diet is very mentally taxing though, it takes a ton of will power.
  • grinch031
    grinch031 Posts: 1,679
    Well, the main issue with that diet isn't the calories themselves; it's putting your body into an effect where your brain is relying ketones for an extended period of time for energy. While the brain can use the ketones and function, it is not as effective as using glucose, because glucose is the brain's preferred energy source in any situation. Ketones are supposed to be backup for when glucose supplies are super-low, and it's not designed to be an extended thing.

    So really, using this diet to get a specific goal in a shorter period of time would be effective, because your body could adapt to the situation for a period, but it is not something that's designed to be done long-term, because your brain is not wired to be able to handle ketones for extended periods of time. Which means that once your done, it would be very hard to maintain the results, unless you go through the diet in cycles.

    Just so you know, back before agriculture, carbohydrates were only available in abundance seasonally. What did people eat in the winter to stay out of ketosis? The Inuit eskimos and other populations went extended periods of time on a ketogenic diet and adapted just fine.

    Explain to us why the body isn't wired to handle ketones for extended periods of time. Do you have any evidence of this claim?
  • LilRedRooster
    LilRedRooster Posts: 1,421 Member
    The acidic effect that people are referring to is ketoacidosis, that is a product of not enough insulin being available to uptake glucose in cells, so ketone bodies are produced from fatty acids. The result gives people "fruity" breath from acetone production, which is not the same as normal breakdown of fatty acids in the presence of insulin.
  • thelowcarbrecipes
    thelowcarbrecipes Posts: 89 Member
    There are no problems with being in ketosis for a very long time. Ketogenic diets have been suggested to epileptic children for ages now.
  • jeffarthur
    jeffarthur Posts: 123 Member
    good for you...and do whatever you like....BUT this sounds miserable
  • sonician1974
    sonician1974 Posts: 15 Member
    I've been on a keto diet since November 28th. Since that time, I've lost 56lbs of body fat.

    My ratio has been 5% net carbs, 35% protein and 60% fats.

    I'm 6' and currently 297lbs. My fat and protein typically settle around 120-130g per day and carbs at 20.


    I eat 75%+ of my carbs by the time lunch is over, so that I intake a very minor amount of carbs after 1pm.

    I've been also around 1700-1800 calories this entire time.

    It's worked out amazing for me. I haven't felt limited by what I can eat at all. Check out my diary for examples, but I have tomato, onion, lots of green vegetables (leafy and/or just in color), chicken, beef, pork, fish. Hell, I even have hot dogs once or twice a week. (Schneider's Country Naturals FTW!)
  • MrDude_1
    MrDude_1 Posts: 2,510 Member
    Your breath smelled awful because your body was breaking down fats for fuel. The by-products of fat metabolism are ketones. Ketones are weak acids, and thus you described perfectly what is known as "ketone breath". In addition if ketones build up in your blood, your blood will become acidic , and this can be detrimental to your health.

    Stop repeating this nonsense. The only people who need to worry about that is Type I diabetics and alcoholics.

    wait.. wut?
    I havent read anything relating specifically to ketogenic Diets and alcohol.... have any cool links to share?
    I know it wont really apply to any alcoholics I know, since beer has carbs and would kick them out of ketosis before the night is over, but I am genuinely curious.
  • grinch031
    grinch031 Posts: 1,679
    Your breath smelled awful because your body was breaking down fats for fuel. The by-products of fat metabolism are ketones. Ketones are weak acids, and thus you described perfectly what is known as "ketone breath". In addition if ketones build up in your blood, your blood will become acidic , and this can be detrimental to your health.

    Stop repeating this nonsense. The only people who need to worry about that is Type I diabetics and alcoholics.

    wait.. wut?
    I havent read anything relating specifically to ketogenic Diets and alcohol.... have any cool links to share?
    I know it wont really apply to any alcoholics I know, since beer has carbs and would kick them out of ketosis before the night is over, but I am genuinely curious.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001365/

    I would imagine a beer drinker is probably not going to hit this as easily as someone drinking hard liquor. But I know very little other than reading a brief intro about it in the book, The Ketogenic Diet.
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