Can you LOSE fat while on a surplus?

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Rae6503
Rae6503 Posts: 6,294 Member
in Fitness and Exercise
This is a serious question spurred by that gaining muscle while on a deficit post....

Lets take Staci for example. It says she ate 3000-4000 calories a day. Obviously (to me anyway) a surplus. Her TDEE is probably about 2500. (Random guess based on my own).

Screen-Shot-2011-07-21-at-92311-AM.jpg

Doesn't it look like she actually lost fat? Especially in her stomach? Maybe she went on a cutting cycle they didn't tell us about....

Replies

  • gp79
    gp79 Posts: 1,799 Member
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    I didn't partake in the other thread, and I'm not sure of the time lapse between these two photos but to me, it doesn't appear there to be any noticeable differences in body fat. The biggest change between the photos is the lighting which can significantly impact a photo.

    With that being said, there are some differences in appearance in the lower abdominal areas. Again, the first photo, the lighting isn't such that it would show anyway.
  • rileysowner
    rileysowner Posts: 8,230 Member
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    If she was truly in a surplus no she would not lose fat.
  • UponThisRock
    UponThisRock Posts: 4,522 Member
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    I doubt it. I think the best you can do is to make muscle gains > fat gains, thereby decreasing your bodyfat percentage.

    Although, I could imagine a situation where an obese beginner eats at a smaller surplus than he has been while lifting and gains muscle and loses fat for a while. I would imagine that this would be short lived.

    Lyle talks about the "p-ratio" in the first part of this article: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/calorie-partitioning-part-1.html
  • RonSwanson66
    RonSwanson66 Posts: 1,150 Member
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    This is a serious question spurred by that gaining muscle while on a deficit post....

    Lets take Staci for example. It says she ate 3000-4000 calories a day. Obviously (to me anyway) a surplus. Her TDEE is probably about 2500. (Random guess based on my own).

    Screen-Shot-2011-07-21-at-92311-AM.jpg

    Doesn't it look like she actually lost fat? Especially in her stomach? Maybe she went on a cutting cycle they didn't tell us about....

    I'm guessing her bodyfat % is the same in both pictures. I've seen bigger visual differences in a single day (due to water balance, etc).

    Not to mention the different lighting between the two.
  • Rae6503
    Rae6503 Posts: 6,294 Member
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    I doubt it. I think the best you can do is to make muscle gains > fat gains, thereby decreasing your bodyfat percentage.

    Although, I could imagine a situation where an obese beginner eats at a smaller surplus than he has been while lifting and gains muscle and loses fat for a while. I would imagine that this would be short lived.

    Lyle talks about the "p-ratio" in the first part of this article: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/calorie-partitioning-part-1.html

    Thanks! I've been meaning to find an article on this.
  • thefuzz1290
    thefuzz1290 Posts: 777 Member
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    It is possible, but VERY difficult (unless you use roids). There is such a thing as a clean bulk, but you pretty much eat chicken, chicken, and wait for it....more chicken.
  • gp79
    gp79 Posts: 1,799 Member
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    It is possible, but VERY difficult (unless you use roids). There is such a thing as a clean bulk, but you pretty much eat chicken, chicken, and wait for it....more chicken.

    Even with the faddish term 'clean bulk' - eating in a surplus will cause both fat and muscle gain, simply at a slower rate. If it were as easy as doing a clean bulk (gaining muscle and NO fat), everyone would be doing it.
  • AlsDonkBoxSquat
    AlsDonkBoxSquat Posts: 6,128 Member
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    It is possible, but VERY difficult (unless you use roids).

    damn, you found out my trick . . .

    Staci is really popular on the boards today.
  • Rae6503
    Rae6503 Posts: 6,294 Member
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    It is possible, but VERY difficult (unless you use roids).

    damn, you found out my trick . . .

    Staci is really popular on the boards today.

    She is. I'm guessing she went on a cut cycle of some kind that they failed to mention. She'd have to gain some fat eating "3000-4000" calories a day...
  • ednabnana
    ednabnana Posts: 304
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    She sorta looks the same except that on the second pic, she looks more muscular on the belly area. She looks great on both photos.

    Now if only I can look like this.
  • thefuzz1290
    thefuzz1290 Posts: 777 Member
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    It is possible, but VERY difficult (unless you use roids). There is such a thing as a clean bulk, but you pretty much eat chicken, chicken, and wait for it....more chicken.

    Even with the faddish term 'clean bulk' - eating in a surplus will cause both fat and muscle gain, simply at a slower rate. If it were as easy as doing a clean bulk (gaining muscle and NO fat), everyone would be doing it.

    Actually no, its not easy. Have you ever really tried to do a clean bulk? You severely limit your carb intake and eat a crap load of protein....I just can't eat that much during the day. Will you gain a little fat? Depends on the person, but you won't get FAT doing it.
  • Rae6503
    Rae6503 Posts: 6,294 Member
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    She sorta looks the same except that on the second pic, she looks more muscular on the belly area. She looks great on both photos.

    Now if only I can look like this.

    If you haven't read her story, it really is quite awesome and inspiring. There is an 11 pound difference.

    http://nerdfitness.com/blog/2011/07/21/meet-staci-your-new-powerlifting-super-hero/
  • Rae6503
    Rae6503 Posts: 6,294 Member
    Options
    It is possible, but VERY difficult (unless you use roids). There is such a thing as a clean bulk, but you pretty much eat chicken, chicken, and wait for it....more chicken.

    Even with the faddish term 'clean bulk' - eating in a surplus will cause both fat and muscle gain, simply at a slower rate. If it were as easy as doing a clean bulk (gaining muscle and NO fat), everyone would be doing it.

    Actually no, its not easy. Have you ever really tried to do a clean bulk? You severely limit your carb intake and eat a crap load of protein....I just can't eat that much during the day. Will you gain a little fat? Depends on the person, but you won't get FAT doing it.

    But you won't get "fat" doing a moderate bulk either. I like this article:

    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/general-philosophies-of-muscle-mass-gain.html
  • fakeplastictree
    fakeplastictree Posts: 836 Member
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    I don't know the answer but in my head it makes sense to say yes. From what people say and what I've read usually the macro ration and all that good stuff is what helps with the whole body recomposition. My rationalization wants to say you go in a surplus and eat more (more protein and lift a lot) That you will gain muscle and burn some of the fat off. ::shrugs::
  • garbanzalo
    garbanzalo Posts: 61 Member
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    I saw this and the supporting explanation on Nerd Fitness. There are much less flattering pictures of her from the "Before" phase there.

    3000-3500 calories are the right amount for her, considering she is leading an active lifestyle and lifting weights. THat may not be the right amount for you.

    Bottomline is simple -
    - If you are gaining weight, you are eating beyond maintenance
    - If you are losing weight, you are eating below maintenance
    - If you are steady in a small holding pattern, you are at maintenance.

    I know that this is a simplification and the TDEE for the same person with the same routine at 250 lbs. is different than at 150 lbs. but the basic premise holds.
  • Becky_Boodle
    Becky_Boodle Posts: 253 Member
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    She sorta looks the same except that on the second pic, she looks more muscular on the belly area. She looks great on both photos.

    Now if only I can look like this.

    If you haven't read her story, it really is quite awesome and inspiring. There is an 11 pound difference.

    http://nerdfitness.com/blog/2011/07/21/meet-staci-your-new-powerlifting-super-hero/

    I read her story...
    I found it amazing and extremely inspiring!!!
    women everywhere should read this!!!

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