BMR question

I followed that link and he says not to eat less than your BMR. But I went to the fat2fit site that he suggested and there are two different BMR calculations. The Katch-McArdle uses body fat % in the equation so I am using that. It says my BMR is 1803. It then suggests that I eat 1578 cal/day to reach my goal (based on active person who works out 6-7 times/week). So that is much lower than my BMR according to that method.

Interesting, that's not usually what happens.

Now, the paragraph above that chart shares what they are doing, taking BMR at the goal weight you entered, and then showing you the activity levels. I thought they had a protection for that though, I guess not.

I'd be curious if you did the same thing in this spreadsheet what happens.
You have to do a bit more homework on activity levels and times, but the idea is the same, eating at future maintenance level, or as close as currently able to estimate.
This just allows you to nail the activity better, to maximize the potential deficit.
But it also usually protects the current BMR, unless very overweight, in which case undercutting the BMR at first won't be as bad.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Amt7QBR9-c6MdGZlcmNCNmhJWFhtUGl0ZEk1RFd1c0E

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/477666-eating-for-future-you-method

So I plugged my info into the worksheet and the BMR is about the same, averaged 1750 and daily activities averaged 950, with total calories at 2700. Mifflin's goal weight calorie is 2634. So is this the daily calories I should be consuming to lose weight? It doesn't seem like that we do anything since it is only 66 calories less. My goal is to lose 1-2lbs/wk and keep my muscle mass.

Wow - you must have a lot of activity on daily basis. Because those calculator calories are actually underestimated except for very light intensity efforts. So to still be at 950 is incredible.

So, take one of your typical workout days.
Take the goal weight calories 2634 minus the real calorie burn you have in that day's workouts. Hopefully HRM estimate, or something other estimate.
Are you left with around your BMR, probably a tad less?

So the real idea here on both methods - you protect the BMR from being suppressed by constantly underfeeding it, and missing out on free burn.

And your real deficit comes from non-exercise daily activity which is mainly fat burning and doesn't need to be fed.
That 66 is not the real deficit. That would be the case if that calculator truly had all burn amounts exact.

You frankly don't have enough to lose to have 1-2 lb loss/wk. And not enough non-exercise activity. If you have been thinking about a rest day, I'd take it, and walk on that day instead. 3-4mph walk. Don't feed it, doesn't need it.
Probably looking at .5 to .75 lb/wk if you increase daily activity. Parking farther, stairs, walking at work, ect.

Now, this method, if your BMR is indeed protected, will allow all your exercise to be fed and body to recover and get stronger, while fat will melt away.
Especially if you've been eating below your BMR for any length of time, weight may not change at first, but everyone has seen inches move first.

Wow - you must have a lot of activity on daily basis. Because those calculator calories are actually underestimated except for very light intensity efforts. So to still be at 950 is incredible.

So, take one of your typical workout days.
Take the goal weight calories 2634 minus the real calorie burn you have in that day's workouts. Hopefully HRM estimate, or something other estimate.
Are you left with around your BMR, probably a tad less?

So the real idea here on both methods - you protect the BMR from being suppressed by constantly underfeeding it, and missing out on free burn.

And your real deficit comes from non-exercise daily activity which is mainly fat burning and doesn't need to be fed.
That 66 is not the real deficit. That would be the case if that calculator truly had all burn amounts exact.

You frankly don't have enough to lose to have 1-2 lb loss/wk. And not enough non-exercise activity. If you have been thinking about a rest day, I'd take it, and walk on that day instead. 3-4mph walk. Don't feed it, doesn't need it.
Probably looking at .5 to .75 lb/wk if you increase daily activity. Parking farther, stairs, walking at work, ect.

Now, this method, if your BMR is indeed protected, will allow all your exercise to be fed and body to recover and get stronger, while fat will melt away.
Especially if you've been eating below your BMR for any length of time, weight may not change at first, but everyone has seen inches move first.

Thanks for the info. And no, I actually don't have that much activity but that is where it put me at. I am working out at least 60mins/day and 2-3 days a week I work 12hr shifts in a busy ER. I don't believe my Polar HR calories so I take 20-30% off of that. I actually was wearing it at work and after a 12hr shift it was over 2500 calories. And during my workouts it is over 1000 cal/hr but I only plug in 600 to MFP. My other days, besides working out, are fairly sedentary. I am mainly working on papers for my graduate degree. So if you are saying 950 is high, than I guess something must be wrong. I put in 8hrs sleep, 10hrs sedentary daily.

Just so you know HRMs are not for all day wear. The formula they use for calculating calories burned is only for cardio exercise and are not accurate at lower heart rates that would be typical doing normal daily activities.

Bumping!

My BMR is 1720, but MFP tells me to eat 1200 calories in a day (net). Without any exercise this would only be 1200 calories flat out. Do I just trust the MFP? Or should I really be eating 500 calories more every day? How in the world would you lose?!

If you don't want to end up just lowering your metabolism, and slowing your weight loss, and then having it stall - yes, at least 500 more minimum.

You would lose because BMR is NOT your daily calorie burn, that is your TDEE (Total Daily Energy Exenditure).
MFP goes for a non-exercise daily maintenance figure, safeguarding you actually doing the workouts, not just planning them.

You can have BMR level calories pumped into your body during a coma and you will not lose weight. Well, until your muscle atrophy and BMR slows for that reason.

Do you wake up and move around? You burn more than BMR.

MFP is going for the theory that you may indeed undercut your BMR and eventually slow it down, but you will have some weeks of diminishing weight loss in there to keep you hooked for the advertisers. Nothing is free, is it.
Then you'll ask for help.

Even more nefarious thought I just had, perhaps this is part of the plan to help the advertisers of all this diet stuff. Desperate women who usually want the big weight loss goal amount weekly, undercutting the BMR and slowing down, getting aggravated and willing to spend the money on products.

Anyway, sidetracked. So yes, MFP is more than willing to do something unsmart by allowing your goal to go under your BMR. They are NOT willing at least to go under 1200 calorie goals. So they do believe in safety, but not smarts.

If you really aren't working out, you have the easiest setup of all if you don't want to suppress your metabolism.

Home - Settings - Diet/Fitness Profile.
Select activity level of Sedentary.
Select weight loss goal of 1/2 lb a week.
Save out.
That's set your daily net goal to 1814, protecting your BMR from slowing down, and losing that free daily calorie burn. Which would be 520 (1720 eventually lowering to 1200 or lower).

Will that really only be 1/2 lb week weight loss?

No. Does MFP know that maintenance level from selecting sedentary is correct calorie burn for you? No
Do you know what your true daily maintenance is? Probably not.

So your deficit is now ALL your daily activity, everything that is burned when you are not sleeping. Those are exactly the types of activity that draws mainly from fat stores, and you don't need to eat back.

Now - if you start exercising more than a 3mph walk some days a week, you need to feed that workout.
Why?
If you don't, the calories from that will be taken from the food first, and your BMR won't get the 1720, causing it to be suppressed.

Now, with MFP setup as above, as the lbs come off every week, the daily goal, and your BMR, will lower automatically.

Thanks a lot Heybales for the excellent post ... Your explanations are always very clear ...!!!