Cleansing/Detox Drinks

If you're asking whether chemical components chelate toxins

I'm asking whether or not you believe that going on a juice fast or juice cleanse or detox "diet" will somehow remedy these apparent toxins that your body cannot otherwise rid itself of (beyond what you'd get from eating whole foods and drinking water).

I'm sure you don't mean to give unsound advice but I strongly recommend you read this article (and many others on the topic) since the effects of weight loss and the moblization of toxins stores in adipose (fat) tissue is very well documented.

Reading it now. But specifically, I would need to see that this toxicity is not removed by a normally functioning liver/kidneys/etc.

Search on blood toxicity during weight loss. It's true that the liver and kidneys remove a goodly amount of purities daily. But whatever they can't remove is preferentially stored in fat. As our food and environments become more polluted our bodies can't simply can't keep up. RAPID weight loss mobilizes the toxins along with the fat into the bloodstream to be used as fuel to compensate for reduced calorie intake and/or increased calorie expenditure. This increase can be measured.

A number of illnesses, including disruption of the endocrine, reproductive and immune systems, dementia, and cancers have been linked to the release of POPs (persistent organic pollutants). Here's an article ABC News carried: http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2010/09/08/3005218.htm. There are literally hundred of studies (NOT done by supplement manufacturers) that have replicated the findings.

And will cleansing/detoxing fix this? (EDIT: And I really would like to know, I'm not trying to be a dink here. If you are right, I need to change my viewpoint on this. But, I need to see ample evidence that a cleanse diet or detox beverage fixes the above problem).

I don't think you're trying to be anything other than a person who just got new data that challenges a belief you currently hold.

As I said in my earlier post, the so-called blood purifiers (herbal) assist in the production of urine and therefore help move mobilized toxins out of the body. Caffeinated tea and coffee probably work just as well although I haven't seen any studies. Chemical chelaters have documented efficacy--search under chelate poisoning and the individual poison name.

Let's say you're a man living in heartland America. If you lived in rural Boone County, Missouri, you'd have a 42 percent lower sperm count than your counterpart in urban Minneapolis. The rural men also had lower quality sperm as measured by movement, shape, and other factors. The sperm counts weren't low enough for the men to be considered infertile but they're still nearly half that of city dwellers. Urine samples found that men with high levels of the herbicide alachlor were 30 times more likely to have diminished sperm quality. Men with high levels of the insecticide diazanon or the herbicide atrazine were 16.7 or 11.3 times more likely to have poor sperm quality, respectively. There are documented chemicals that result in the complete loss of sperm in workers exposed to them, such as dibromochloropropane (DBCP), a pesticide historically used on pineapples. Here's the whole article: http://www.organicconsumers.org/foodsafety/fertility040504.cfm

We know the chelating agents for the heavy metals--they've been used for decades treating cases of poisoning. But we may not yet know what removes various pesticide residues. Until then they're being stored in your fat. And dieting releases them. Who knows if some of the "trash-can diagnoses" like fibromyalgia will turn out to be POP-related?

Meanwhile, drinking LOTS of water while dieting and using diuretic teas is not a bad idea. The goal is to keep the poisons moving OUT of the body.

I drink sassy water all the time! it is so refreshing! Google it

If you're asking whether chemical components chelate toxins

I'm asking whether or not you believe that going on a juice fast or juice cleanse or detox "diet" will somehow remedy these apparent toxins that your body cannot otherwise rid itself of (beyond what you'd get from eating whole foods and drinking water).

What I believe is immaterial. I do have confidence in the research--herbal "blood purifiers" do not work by chelating toxins but they do increase urine flow which in turn increases the elimination of toxins. I believe very specific chelating agents target very specific toxins because of the demonstrated efficacy of treatment in cases of poisoning. No one knows what specifically removes each and every toxin found in our blood streams when we're dieting. Nor do we know all the effects on our health if we stay fat and keep them stored in our bodies.

I agree with water, but I also use Melaleuca Herbal Tea. It has o cal. and I find that it truly helps. Also I heard that cranberry extract works well also. My chiropractor uses it.

Not picking on you but, what exactly do you mean by "I find that it truly helps" and that "cranberry extract works well too"? Could you describe the benefits derived from the use of these products and how you have measured the efficacy(baseline blood work & follow up?)

Search on blood toxicity during weight loss. It's true that the liver and kidneys remove a goodly amount of purities daily. But whatever they can't remove is preferentially stored in fat. As our food and environments become more polluted our bodies can't simply can't keep up. RAPID weight loss mobilizes the toxins along with the fat into the bloodstream to be used as fuel to compensate for reduced calorie intake and/or increased calorie expenditure. This increase can be measured.

A number of illnesses, including disruption of the endocrine, reproductive and immune systems, dementia, and cancers have been linked to the release of POPs (persistent organic pollutants). Here's an article ABC News carried: http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2010/09/08/3005218.htm. There are literally hundred of studies (NOT done by supplement manufacturers) that have replicated the findings.

This is why slow and steady weight loss is encouraged. It slows these things down from entering the blood stream. Rapid weight loss does have it's dangers!
I'd hesitate using ABC news as a reliable scientific source. FYI. They talk about what the advertisers want.

Edit - I'm afraid this topic will get locked down while I'm at the gym. It's a really nice debate!

Network news is actually more reliable than you might think. The key is whether they cite the research in the articles that come from their investigative reporting. In this case, they do. Here's the link to the original article the Korean team published in the International Journal of Obesity. It is not open access though. http://www.nature.com/ijo/journal/v34/n8/full/ijo201048a.html

Do more research, toxins are not "imaginary".

Can you please name some toxins that build up in your system, that cannot be cleansed by your body?

Anything in sufficient excess quantities could be on the list. But the ones we've researched and KNOW at least some of the effects are: DDT, PCB, dioxin, nalkanes, PCP and THC.

Over four million distinct chemical compounds have been reported in the literature since 1965, with 6,000 new compounds added to the list each week....More than 3,000 chemicals are deliberately added to food and over 700 have been identified in drinking water....Over 400 chemicals have been identified in human tissues, with some 48 found in adipose [fat], 40 in [breast] milk, 73 in the liver, and over 250 in blood plasma. The characters of chemicals found in adipose tissue are diverse, but tend to reflect biologically persistent or often used materials such as the ones I named above.

Chemicals stored in adipose and other tissues pose a continuing physiological and psychological threat to human health. Dioxin has been associated with ischemic vascular disease and with other physiological as well as psychological effects as long as ten years after initial exposure. Oncological studies have shown a significant association between PCB and DDE levels in fat and increased cancer incidence. In addition, PCB exposures have resulted in increased plasma triglycerides, even in the absence of overt symptoms of PCB toxification. PCBs in monkeys not only resulted in increased blood lipids, but negatively affected the ability to maintain pregnancy. Further, they have been related to personality and cognitive functioning of persons unexpectedly exposed.

Thus, any toxin not excreted by the body can be recycled continually into the bloodstream, re-exposing the system again and again. Since every cell in the body contains some fat—even if it’s a very small amount—the toxins can actually lodge anywhere.

It should be noted that women have more problems with toxins than do men because, with a higher percentage of fat in their bodies, they have more places to store the poisons. As Krohn and Taylor point out, women’s smaller size in general also causes them to become ill from chemicals more quickly than their male counterparts. Also, women’s higher levels of estrogen and progesterone can interfere with the efficiency of some enzymes utilized in the detoxification process. Finally, due to lower levels of the enzyme called alcohol dehydrogenase, women are less able to detoxify alcohol. This includes the alcohols in solvents as well as the kind that you drink.

Do more research, toxins are not "imaginary".

Can you please name some toxins that build up in your system, that cannot be cleansed by your body?

Anything in sufficient excess quantities could be on the list. But the ones we've researched and KNOW at least some of the effects are: DDT, PCB, dioxin, nalkanes, PCP and THC.

Over four million distinct chemical compounds have been reported in the literature since 1965, with 6,000 new compounds added to the list each week....More than 3,000 chemicals are deliberately added to food and over 700 have been identified in drinking water....Over 400 chemicals have been identified in human tissues, with some 48 found in adipose [fat], 40 in [breast] milk, 73 in the liver, and over 250 in blood plasma. The characters of chemicals found in adipose tissue are diverse, but tend to reflect biologically persistent or often used materials such as the ones I named above.

Chemicals stored in adipose and other tissues pose a continuing physiological and psychological threat to human health. Dioxin has been associated with ischemic vascular disease and with other physiological as well as psychological effects as long as ten years after initial exposure. Oncological studies have shown a significant association between PCB and DDE levels in fat and increased cancer incidence. In addition, PCB exposures have resulted in increased plasma triglycerides, even in the absence of overt symptoms of PCB toxification. PCBs in monkeys not only resulted in increased blood lipids, but negatively affected the ability to maintain pregnancy. Further, they have been related to personality and cognitive functioning of persons unexpectedly exposed.

Thus, any toxin not excreted by the body can be recycled continually into the bloodstream, re-exposing the system again and again. Since every cell in the body contains some fat—even if it’s a very small amount—the toxins can actually lodge anywhere.

It should be noted that women have more problems with toxins than do men because, with a higher percentage of fat in their bodies, they have more places to store the poisons. As Krohn and Taylor point out, women’s smaller size in general also causes them to become ill from chemicals more quickly than their male counterparts. Also, women’s higher levels of estrogen and progesterone can interfere with the efficiency of some enzymes utilized in the detoxification process. Finally, due to lower levels of the enzyme called alcohol dehydrogenase, women are less able to detoxify alcohol. This includes the alcohols in solvents as well as the kind that you drink.

^ This is a cut and paste from http://www.lymebook.com/sauna-mercury-pesticides-hydrobarbon-drug-detox

just in case anyone would like to read the full text.

Network news is actually more reliable than you might think. The key is whether they cite the research in the articles that come from their investigative reporting. In this case, they do. Here's the link to the original article the Korean team published in the International Journal of Obesity. It is not open access though. http://www.nature.com/ijo/journal/v34/n8/full/ijo201048a.html

"claim researchers from the Kyungpook National University, Daegu, in the Republic of Korea" - ABC news article you posted.

Author affiliations on the paper you just cited:

P A Essah1, J R Levy2, S N Sistrun3, S M Kelly3 and J E Nestler1,4

1Department of Internal Medicine, Virginia Commonwealth University School of Medicine, Richmond, VA, USA
2McGuire Veterans Administration Medical Center, Richmond, VA, USA
3General Clinical Research Center, Virginia Commonwealth University School of Medicine, Richmond, VA, USA
4Departments of Obstetrics and Gynecology, Virginia Commonwealth University School of Medicine, Richmond, VA, USA

So, also nope.

water.. water.. and more water?

I have issues with my kidneys - as in they do not work 100% due to some health issues when I was a tiny baby.... I have talked at length with my Dr and a specialist about detoxes and you know what they told me??? WATER... even with kidneys that to not function 100% all the time water is all you need - if you want add some lemon juice to it as the citrus does something (I am not exactly sure I would have to find all the paperwork that is packed away in my basement somewhere)

Our bodies are amazing things, they filter out the crap and keep us going, and unless you have some major health issue that prevents your kidneys and liver from doing what they are supposed to or you are re-introducing the toxins into your body by doing urine therapy you should NOT ever need to do a detox.

Anyone I know who has done detoxes loses weight but as soon as they go back to eating normal real food they do gain it back because they have lost water weight.

Just my 2 cents though.

I thought you were asking for hard science to answer your question.

I was, and while I do appreciate that you've shown that toxicity can be an issue, it doesn't show that detox or cleanse diets are the solution to that problem.

Even though it doesn't change my position on this, it was nice to read about toxins that aren't naturally cleansed.

When did I ever say they were? I responded to your claim that cellular toxic load was a myth.

I've said repeatedly there's no scientific evidence. That said, is it because the treatments don't work? Or because no studies have been done? Keep in mind that there's no money to be made from an expensive study that shows kale and spinach and bananas detox as well as some fancy new pill or tea. Pharmaceutical and nutriceutical companies are in business to make money not advise you to juice common foods. All the evidence points to the so-called detox products work by assisting in elimination by diuretic action or removing waste from the intestines, like clay and psyllium husk. Although no one has mentioned it yet, activated charcoal has the ability to adsorb (not absorb) a wide variety of substances.

Since you seem interested, I do not drink juice. I eat only whole fruits and veggies, preferably raw. I do sometimes run things through a juicer but I mix the pulp back in before using it in a recipe. My rationale is that the "active ingredient" may work better with other nutients in the food, such as the synergistic effect of vitamin C taken with calcium and magnesium. For example, nitrates in greens are much higher than in hot dogs and processed meats but they also contain vitamin C which appears to limit the carcinogenic activity. Processed meats do not which may be one reason why they are so problematic.

Do more research, toxins are not "imaginary".

Can you please name some toxins that build up in your system, that cannot be cleansed by your body?

Anything in sufficient excess quantities could be on the list. But the ones we've researched and KNOW at least some of the effects are: DDT, PCB, dioxin, nalkanes, PCP and THC.

Over four million distinct chemical compounds have been reported in the literature since 1965, with 6,000 new compounds added to the list each week....More than 3,000 chemicals are deliberately added to food and over 700 have been identified in drinking water....Over 400 chemicals have been identified in human tissues, with some 48 found in adipose [fat], 40 in [breast] milk, 73 in the liver, and over 250 in blood plasma. The characters of chemicals found in adipose tissue are diverse, but tend to reflect biologically persistent or often used materials such as the ones I named above.

Chemicals stored in adipose and other tissues pose a continuing physiological and psychological threat to human health. Dioxin has been associated with ischemic vascular disease and with other physiological as well as psychological effects as long as ten years after initial exposure. Oncological studies have shown a significant association between PCB and DDE levels in fat and increased cancer incidence. In addition, PCB exposures have resulted in increased plasma triglycerides, even in the absence of overt symptoms of PCB toxification. PCBs in monkeys not only resulted in increased blood lipids, but negatively affected the ability to maintain pregnancy. Further, they have been related to personality and cognitive functioning of persons unexpectedly exposed.

Thus, any toxin not excreted by the body can be recycled continually into the bloodstream, re-exposing the system again and again. Since every cell in the body contains some fat—even if it’s a very small amount—the toxins can actually lodge anywhere.

It should be noted that women have more problems with toxins than do men because, with a higher percentage of fat in their bodies, they have more places to store the poisons. As Krohn and Taylor point out, women’s smaller size in general also causes them to become ill from chemicals more quickly than their male counterparts. Also, women’s higher levels of estrogen and progesterone can interfere with the efficiency of some enzymes utilized in the detoxification process. Finally, due to lower levels of the enzyme called alcohol dehydrogenase, women are less able to detoxify alcohol. This includes the alcohols in solvents as well as the kind that you drink.

So, are you saying that if I drink water and eat healthy whole foods, my body with cleanse itself?

Do more research, toxins are not "imaginary".

Can you please name some toxins that build up in your system, that cannot be cleansed by your body?

Anything in sufficient excess quantities could be on the list. But the ones we've researched and KNOW at least some of the effects are: DDT, PCB, dioxin, nalkanes, PCP and THC.

Over four million distinct chemical compounds have been reported in the literature since 1965, with 6,000 new compounds added to the list each week....More than 3,000 chemicals are deliberately added to food and over 700 have been identified in drinking water....Over 400 chemicals have been identified in human tissues, with some 48 found in adipose [fat], 40 in [breast] milk, 73 in the liver, and over 250 in blood plasma. The characters of chemicals found in adipose tissue are diverse, but tend to reflect biologically persistent or often used materials such as the ones I named above.

Chemicals stored in adipose and other tissues pose a continuing physiological and psychological threat to human health. Dioxin has been associated with ischemic vascular disease and with other physiological as well as psychological effects as long as ten years after initial exposure. Oncological studies have shown a significant association between PCB and DDE levels in fat and increased cancer incidence. In addition, PCB exposures have resulted in increased plasma triglycerides, even in the absence of overt symptoms of PCB toxification. PCBs in monkeys not only resulted in increased blood lipids, but negatively affected the ability to maintain pregnancy. Further, they have been related to personality and cognitive functioning of persons unexpectedly exposed.

Thus, any toxin not excreted by the body can be recycled continually into the bloodstream, re-exposing the system again and again. Since every cell in the body contains some fat—even if it’s a very small amount—the toxins can actually lodge anywhere.

It should be noted that women have more problems with toxins than do men because, with a higher percentage of fat in their bodies, they have more places to store the poisons. As Krohn and Taylor point out, women’s smaller size in general also causes them to become ill from chemicals more quickly than their male counterparts. Also, women’s higher levels of estrogen and progesterone can interfere with the efficiency of some enzymes utilized in the detoxification process. Finally, due to lower levels of the enzyme called alcohol dehydrogenase, women are less able to detoxify alcohol. This includes the alcohols in solvents as well as the kind that you drink.

So, are you saying that if I drink water and eat healthy whole foods, my body with cleanse itself?

Yup. Provided there are no medical conditions that may hurt the process. However, even with kidneys that aren't fully functional a body will still cleanse itself.

Bump