Why I'm not for cardio and resistance concurrently

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Replies

  • jcstanton
    jcstanton Posts: 1,849 Member
    Here's a question for you. What about someone like me, who has a hormone disorder (PCOS) and has elevated testosterone levels to begin with? I do a mix of both two days per week, and I know for a fact that I've built plenty of muscle because caliper measurements indicate that I have. Not to mention, I have been able to increase resistance on my strength training several times over (5-20lb increases each time, depending on the exercise) and there is visible improvement in muscle definition...particularly in my arms and legs. I know you said your OP was specifically referring to "short" sets of heavy weight, but even though I do 2 sets of 15, I don't exactly lift "light" either. I used to do strength training three days a week, but I just started training for a 5K I'm doing in May, so I wanted to start doing more cardio for a while. This is my routine on days that I do strength training (Tuesdays, Thursdays), and it seems to be working fine for me:

    10min warm up on eliptical
    Leg Press=180lbs
    Leg Extension=50lbs
    Leg Curl=50lbs
    Hip Adductor=80lbs
    Hip Abductor=80lbs
    10 minutes on Wave Glider (similar to stair climber, but side to side skating motion instead of straight up and down)
    Lower Back Extension=75lbs
    Chest Press=60lbs
    Shoulder Press=35lbs
    Bicep Curl=40lbs
    Tricep Extension=55lbs
    15 minutes on eliptical

    P.S. I do 2 sets of 15 reps for each.
  • yankeedownsouth
    yankeedownsouth Posts: 717 Member
    Saving for later. Great thread!
  • SHBoss1673
    SHBoss1673 Posts: 7,161 Member
    Didn't bother quoting the previous discussion since the quotes get so long...

    But, are you really saying that no runner or cyclist builds leg muscle by cardio alone? They only build leg muscle by doing strength training? That is so clearly wrong and easily disproven that I assume we must be missing each others point somehow. My statement is straightforward. Runners and cyclists build leg muscle by doing nothing but cardio. There are millions of examples of this across the country and globe. I was always the guy with the skinny legs until I started cycling in 1983 or so. Then my legs got big, muscular, and strong. I never did any strength training until 2009, but that didn't stop me from building strong legs. As I said before, go to any local running or cycling race and check with the contestants (not the elites, the john and jane does.) You will find muscular legs on people who have never done any strength training. It is a long widespread running joke about the marathoners with muscular legs and no upper body. My circle of friends is made up of long distance runners and cyclists who fit this mold. So yeah, one can easily build muscle doing cardio alone, but it will be leg muscle. I don't even see how this can be argued with; it is all around us daily. Don't interview trainers, go see for yourself at the races. Most of the cardio types in my age bracket (I'm 59) have never done strength training, it just wasn't part of the running craze that began in the seventies. So I see it daily and never thought anything of it until I read this thread. Again, I grant you your orignal point, muscle building is more effective when strength training is separarted from cardio. But there is no question that cardio can build muscle, millions of folks do it.

    PS: I'm not combative and don't want to hijack your thread so I'm not going to post anymore. Feel free to PM me if you like, I'm open to discussion, I just don't know that I can add anything here. Thanks for all of your research and advice.

    I train amature racers, I train lots of athletes that perform in endurance sports, I run in moderate races all the time, I'm a 5Ker by trade, I run the occasional 10 K as well. I very rarely come across endurance runners who are at all serious that have "muscular legs", are they fit? are their leg muscles well defined? Yes to both, but well defined, well tuned legs do not mean "muscular in the classical weight training sense. Can you activate dormant muscle fibers, giving legs a more "cut" and defined look? Yes, but you won't grow them, not by doing cardio, sorry, you can't convince me of that. It's just not true. I go to road races all the time, and no, I don't see many cyclists that have bulky big legs regularly. Sorry, I just don't, they may be fit, and well defined, but not proportionally large. Maybe my definition of large is different than yours, but I don't define strong and large as the same thing.

    I think you may be confusing sprint training with endurance.
  • km_jenn
    km_jenn Posts: 107
    Interesting article.

    Personally though I think it all just depends on your goals, your schedule and your preferences. Each person has to experiment with workouts/types/times and see what works best for them...

    I don't think the two necessarily need to be seperated...

    Cardio consists of any exercise that gets your heart rate up... Since I think jumping on a treadmill or elliptical can be mind-numbing and boring what I do is incorporate a lot of weighted cardio & calisthenics into my circuit and interval training. This way you are getting your heart rate up AND builing both strength and muscle endurance. This works for me, but not everyone....

    I completely agree! I love to hear all the latest research, and new findings, etc, but ultimately, everyone has to do what is feasible for them. Especially when it comes to less experienced individuals... if they took all that to heart, they would have one more excuse not to work out!

    I also do a lot of plyometric circuit training, so it is impossible for me to separate my cardio.
  • StarkLark
    StarkLark Posts: 476 Member
    -This only refers to heavy weight training, I.E. hypertrophy or failure training for mass building, not high rep, low weight workouts (I.E. 15 to 30 reps or more per set)

    Wish I had read this first.

    Thanks for pointing this out, as I missed it the first read through as well. I was starting to worry about my BodyPump/Sh'Bam combo nights (yeah, I Sh'Bam, what of it :tongue: )
  • gdunn55
    gdunn55 Posts: 363
    So if I read this right, and if this is germans just say so.. But unless I'm looking to add a ton of mass, I need to lift to failure on one day focusing on certain muscles. Let those muscles rest at least 8 hours and then do cardio. Wait at least 8 hours and hit another target group. Lather, rinse, repeat.

    But how does it work in the, I'm 90+ pounds overweight?
  • M_lifts
    M_lifts Posts: 2,218 Member
    bump
  • Dave198lbs
    Dave198lbs Posts: 8,810 Member
    So if I read this right, and if this is germans just say so.. But unless I'm looking to add a ton of mass, I need to lift to failure on one day focusing on certain muscles. Let those muscles rest at least 8 hours and then do cardio. Wait at least 8 hours and hit another target group. Lather, rinse, repeat.

    But how does it work in the, I'm 90+ pounds overweight?

    it doesnt matter to those wanting to lose a lot of weight. The original article was aimed at those wanting to gain muscle mass. You dont need to worry about doing some resistence work and cardio close together.
  • adellinger01
    adellinger01 Posts: 4
    I have been doing strength training Mond, Wed, Fri for about an hour and a half.
    Then on Tues, Thur, Saturday I do an hour cardio alternating between eliptical and treadmill.
    This has worked well for me and I have lost 35 pounds as well as gain in muscle tone.
    Starting weight 240 - been 5 months doing this routine changing up muscle groups etc.
  • Phrak
    Phrak Posts: 353 Member
    People are way to gun ho on this site. They drastically cut calories, add in workouts and cardio all at once and wonder why they plateau... I use cardio to break a plateau when i dont want to cut calories any further.

    Get a chuckle when i see people, going help! cant lose weight, i eat 1200 calories a day, do cardio 6 days a week and strength train 3 times a week. How are you gonna bust through that? Cant cut calories, cant add more exercise...
  • gdunn55
    gdunn55 Posts: 363
    So if I read this right, and if this is germans just say so.. But unless I'm looking to add a ton of mass, I need to lift to failure on one day focusing on certain muscles. Let those muscles rest at least 8 hours and then do cardio. Wait at least 8 hours and hit another target group. Lather, rinse, repeat.

    But how does it work in the, I'm 90+ pounds overweight?

    it doesnt matter to those wanting to lose a lot of weight. The original article was aimed at those wanting to gain muscle mass. You dont need to worry about doing some resistence work and cardio close together.
    So I did understand right, this only affects those who are interested in bulking up.
  • Dave198lbs
    Dave198lbs Posts: 8,810 Member
    So if I read this right, and if this is germans just say so.. But unless I'm looking to add a ton of mass, I need to lift to failure on one day focusing on certain muscles. Let those muscles rest at least 8 hours and then do cardio. Wait at least 8 hours and hit another target group. Lather, rinse, repeat.

    But how does it work in the, I'm 90+ pounds overweight?

    it doesnt matter to those wanting to lose a lot of weight. The original article was aimed at those wanting to gain muscle mass. You dont need to worry about doing some resistence work and cardio close together.

    So I did understand right, this only affects those who are interested in bulking up.

    well... I am no expert but that is my take on the article.
  • gdunn55
    gdunn55 Posts: 363
    So if I read this right, and if this is germans just say so.. But unless I'm looking to add a ton of mass, I need to lift to failure on one day focusing on certain muscles. Let those muscles rest at least 8 hours and then do cardio. Wait at least 8 hours and hit another target group. Lather, rinse, repeat.

    But how does it work in the, I'm 90+ pounds overweight?

    it doesnt matter to those wanting to lose a lot of weight. The original article was aimed at those wanting to gain muscle mass. You dont need to worry about doing some resistence work and cardio close together.

    So I did understand right, this only affects those who are interested in bulking up.

    well... I am no expert but that is my take on the article.
    Well if two of us agree, we can't be wrong right? I appreciate the help.
  • fakeplastictree
    fakeplastictree Posts: 836 Member
    This is too long of a post.
  • Anomalia
    Anomalia Posts: 506 Member
    bump
  • erikblock
    erikblock Posts: 230 Member
    you can ALWAYS still do cardio, it's mind over matter, its will, it's kicking my own *kitten*.....

    I would tend to agree. When I lift first, do I WANT to do cardio? HELL NO. It's the last thing in the world I want to do. I want to lay down and drink something cold. And I don't screw around when I lift. I superset everything, with no breaks between. I am probably sweatier, more tired, and more out of breath during my resistance work than I am during my cardio work. When I finish lifting, I'm usually beet red, dripping sweat, and seeing spots before my eyes. But I go get a drink of water, "walk it off" a little bit, grab my headphones, and hop on the treadmill or elliptical anyway.

    (Once, after a 13-hour work day, I notified my girlfriend that I was heading to the gym. She said "You still have the strength for that?" I thought it was a funny question. My response: "Of course I have the strength. I don't WANT to do it. But it's a simple choice. I WILL do it." Kind of the same thing, in my opinion.)
  • SHBoss1673
    SHBoss1673 Posts: 7,161 Member
    I think that people are confusing my original concept or are unclear a little. I'm not saying you won't burn calories if you do both, I'm saying if you do both cardio and resistance, there will be a diminished return on both of the workouts. The reason why I pointed it out in the first place is for people looking to add muscle mass. For those of us looking to add mass instead of just burn calories or possibly increase their aerobic endurance, it's not optimal to do moderate cardio in the same routine as heavy weight training.

    The reason why I didn't just say this before is because I've said that about a hundred times on MFP(I've been here for a loooong time:tongue: ), and people were looking for proof of that, I am simply supplying the proof of why weight training and cardio together will inhibit the body's ability to increase muscle mass and strength.
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,427 MFP Moderator
    I think that people are confusing my original concept or are unclear a little. I'm not saying you won't burn calories if you do both, I'm saying if you do both cardio and resistance, there will be a diminished return on both of the workouts. The reason why I pointed it out in the first place is for people looking to add muscle mass. For those of us looking to add mass instead of just burn calories or possibly increase their aerobic endurance, it's not optimal to do moderate cardio in the same routine as heavy weight training.

    The reason why I didn't just say this before is because I've said that about a hundred times on MFP(I've been here for a loooong time:tongue: ), and people were looking for proof of that, I am simply supplying the proof of why weight training and cardio together will inhibit the body's ability to increase muscle mass and strength.

    And I know many of us are very thankful. Keep this info coming.
  • raven56706
    raven56706 Posts: 918 Member
    bump
  • filinfrogerific
    filinfrogerific Posts: 1
    So I have been working out in a gym for the last two months roughly. Doing both cardio and weight in the same sitting. Usually a 2.5 hour routine. I shouldnt be doing this from what I am reading but I have blocks of time available on those days that I do not have anywhere else. What about Cardio combined with abs for a day and weights another?
  • Dave198lbs
    Dave198lbs Posts: 8,810 Member
    So I have been working out in a gym for the last two months roughly. Doing both cardio and weight in the same sitting. Usually a 2.5 hour routine. I shouldnt be doing this from what I am reading but I have blocks of time available on those days that I do not have anywhere else. What about Cardio combined with abs for a day and weights another?

    if your ticker is correct and you are currently trying to lose 84 pounds, then the advice in this post about avoiding cardio on weight days does not apply. The advice in this post is for people trying to gain muscle mass only. It does not apply to those who are trying to lose a significant amount of weight.

    good luck!
  • Helloitsdan
    Helloitsdan Posts: 5,564 Member
    Ive always kept cardio far from my lifting days.

    In fact for cardio...a brisk walk is all thats needed today.
    Once I get to a specific body fat % I will be adding 20 min HIIT walk/run intervals but thats it.
  • frumpytofit
    frumpytofit Posts: 83
    bump for later
  • chiera88
    chiera88 Posts: 155
    bump
  • 70davis
    70davis Posts: 348 Member
    bump
  • zeepotafb
    zeepotafb Posts: 6
    bump
  • maxonehiphop
    maxonehiphop Posts: 139 Member
    I'm not muscle scientist but I thoroughly enjoyed this thread.
  • kvigo821
    kvigo821 Posts: 13 Member
    bump
  • Panda_1999
    Panda_1999 Posts: 191 Member
    And another bump :-)
  • jenniejengin
    jenniejengin Posts: 784 Member
    bump
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