IF and Leangains

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scottywor
scottywor Posts: 140 Member
in Health and Weight Loss
looking to talk or hear from anyone who has used Intermittent fasting, ideally, Leangains...

I have found a weath of info on the web, and Martins site...

http://www.leangains.com/2010/04/leangains-guide.html

Still awaiting a book.... if it ever gets done, but I assume I could prolly find what I need to know on the web, blogs, etc.

I have read the basics and I understand the protocol, but I cant seem to find any info on total caloric intake while doing the protocol, or specific macros... Are you running a deficit while on it? I would assume no...due to the suggested 5x5 type training approach. Or are you running maintainence intake? Intake on rest days vs. training? or free meals, refeeds etc...

If anyone has any info on any of this im all ears, n thanks!

Replies

  • PercivalHackworth
    PercivalHackworth Posts: 1,437 Member
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    Hey man, I'm on my 11th week of leangain, and it's working like a charm. I've been able to put like 1 or 1,5 lbs of lean mass, to pig out, and even remove some stubborn fat there and that

    I strictly follow the protocol in term of nutrients, and I cycle them between rest/ cardio days and training days.

    What details do you want ?
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,404 MFP Moderator
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    I started doing it, but didn't make it far, lol. But I am interested in seeing some more detail
  • scottywor
    scottywor Posts: 140 Member
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    Dude, thats awesome...dunno what I have been wating for...

    I have been researching it for a bit, I probaly havent looked deep enough, so if the info is there, just point me in right direction, I dont wanna come across as being spoonfed... Hope this doesnt sound like 20 questions...but I cant seem to find info on what to eat in terms of how many calories to eat while doing it? do you run a deficit, or not? I understand the % of what to eat each day post workout and the following meals, but hat is that based on?and macro intake? and amounts on rest cardio and lifting days, and the cycling...

    And intake approach on training/cardio/rest days....

    For training how often for lifting and cardio? n if ya dont mind me asking what do you been doing?

    Im 188, and 25% BF, started much heavier than that, but now, I need something to shake the ponz off....lol

    Probably have a few more questions, no doubt....

    Thanks razique

    If ya want or it would make it easier ya can PM me too
  • PercivalHackworth
    PercivalHackworth Posts: 1,437 Member
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    Dude, thats awesome...dunno what I have been wating for...
    Here are the visuals :
    Week 0 : http://goo.gl/YJEOQ

    Week 11 : http://goo.gl/KQEyy

    I barely put weight, but in term of main frame, I think it's pretty good for 11 weeks ( I can't wait to see the 20 weeks to come)
    I have been researching it for a bit, I probaly havent looked deep enough, so if the info is there, just point me in right direction, I dont wanna come across as being spoonfed... Hope this doesnt sound like 20 questions...but I cant seem to find info on what to eat in terms of how many calories to eat while doing it?
    That's the thing... you need to find out what works for you, what is your TDEE basically
    do you run a deficit, or not? I understand the % of what to eat each day post workout and the following meals, but hat is that based on?and macro intake? and amounts on rest cardio and lifting days, and the cycling...
    Yes, I cycle : training days : 3900 calories
    Rest days : 2150 calories
    For training how often for lifting and cardio? n if ya dont mind me asking what do you been doing?
    Everyday I'm doing something, I strength 3 times a week and do cardio 4 times a week. My cardio is simple : I only walk ahah
    Im 188, and 25% BF, started much heavier than that, but now, I need something to shake the ponz off....lol

    Probably have a few more questions, no doubt....
    I started the protocol with 144 lbs, (5% BF) I'm around 146 lbs right now, (I think the BF has barely moved, since I'm kinda weight maniac)
    Thanks razique

    If ya want or it would make it easier ya can PM me too

    Anytime, I created that sheet for helping me to manage and follow my protocol
    http://interzone.kicks-*kitten*.net/Calculating_calories.xls
  • Nataliaho
    Nataliaho Posts: 878 Member
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    There is an IF group, just search for Intermittent fasting :)
  • mideon_696
    mideon_696 Posts: 770 Member
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    For me, it's just a more convenient way to get my food in.
    I don't get time in the mornings for your typical brekky, and am quite busy at work usually so can't eat regularly etc.

    There no magic in it. Minimum macros still apply.
    It's just a more efficient lifestyle. :)
  • PercivalHackworth
    PercivalHackworth Posts: 1,437 Member
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    I totally agree, I first wanted a performant technical approach, now it's a lifestyle.
    The morning I focus on cooking my lunch, sometimes I only eat one huge meal - I train fasted and after that comes the reward :glasses:
  • scottywor
    scottywor Posts: 140 Member
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    That's the thing... you need to find out what works for you, what is your TDEE basically

    Yup I have that all figured out, bout 2700-2800, is mine with 3-5 days of exercise... probably more.
    Yes, I cycle : training days : 3900 calories
    Rest days : 2150 calories

    So not knowing what your TDEE is, looks like you may be at maintainence or above, on training days.
    Assume you are running a large (20-25%) deficit on rest days, do you count your cardio days as rest days aswell?

    How do your macros break down? Are you aiming fr hitting your protein and Fat, then back fillingwith carbs, if need?
    Post workout meal 60%, following 20 % each. Its mainly the timing and intake I have questions about, as you can see. Do you add free meals, refeeds, or do you work tose into your daily intake depending on what day you have it?

    Everyday I'm doing something, I strength 3 times a week and do cardio 4 times a week. My cardio is simple : I only walk ahah

    What kind of lifting have you been doing? 5x5 ish?
    Anytime, I created that sheet for helping me to manage and follow my protocol
    http://interzone.kicks-*kitten*.net/Calculating_calories.xls

    Already in use! Gret help btw...!

    Thanks a ton

    I would be doing fasted training in the AM, up at 430, and planned to break at 1130-12, for Post workout meal at lunch, and feed till round 7-8 when I go to bed...
  • scottywor
    scottywor Posts: 140 Member
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    For me, it's just a more convenient way to get my food in.
    I don't get time in the mornings for your typical brekky, and am quite busy at work usually so can't eat regularly etc.

    There no magic in it. Minimum macros still apply.
    It's just a more efficient lifestyle. :)

    Sounds like it works for your really well.

    Just curious, what kind of results have to had to date?
  • Namwnguyen
    Namwnguyen Posts: 9
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    To my understanding, the most common practice on leangains is to eat 20% above maintinance cals on lifting days and 20% below on non-lifting days. This averages out to a slight deficit per week unless you lift 4 days a week (lg calls for btwn 2 & 4 lift days per week). You can change these caloric ratios based on your cutting/bulking goals, for example if you want to gain overall weight you could eat at + 25% on lifting days and -15% on other days. I've also heard of people flanking a 2 day lifting/feasting stretch with one day of eating light on either side of the stretch and then eating at maintinance for the remaining 3 days of the week. As far as macros, i dont remember the specifics beyond high carbs/low fats on lift days, high-ish fats/ low carbs on other days, very high protein all days

    I've been doing lg for a few months with the goal of having a phisique like Bruce Lee or spider man and I have definately gained muscle (as measured by being able to pretty consistantly increase reps/weights) while simultaniously loosing overall body weight, however, my own muscle gain goals may well fall into what is made possible by "newbie gains". I
    hope that helps
  • scottywor
    scottywor Posts: 140 Member
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    To my understanding, the most common practice on leangains is to eat 20% above maintinance cals on lifting days and 20% below on non-lifting days. This averages out to a slight deficit per week unless you lift 4 days a week (lg calls for btwn 2 & 4 lift days per week). You can change these caloric ratios based on your cutting/bulking goals, for example if you want to gain overall weight you could eat at + 25% on lifting days and -15% on other days. I've also heard of people flanking a 2 day lifting/feasting stretch with one day of eating light on either side of the stretch and then eating at maintinance for the remaining 3 days of the week. As far as macros, i dont remember the specifics beyond high carbs/low fats on lift days, high-ish fats/ low carbs on other days, very high protein all days

    I've been doing lg for a few months with the goal of having a phisique like Bruce Lee or spider man and I have definately gained muscle (as measured by being able to pretty consistantly increase reps/weights) while simultaniously loosing overall body weight, however, my own muscle gain goals may well fall into what is made possible by "newbie gains". I
    hope that helps

    Jus curious Nam, what kind of lifting program do you use? thinking 5x5, or some heavy volume variation of it.

    My goal is to cut fat, so ya think eating at maintenance on lift days or say 10% above to start is reasonable, as well on non lift days (assuming cardio) say eat 20-25% below to start?
  • scottywor
    scottywor Posts: 140 Member
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    Razique, man your IF table in the spreadsheet, makes total sense to me now...LOL...n FFS.... I was at when I posted the message asking you a few times about macros.... when they were right in front of me the whole time...and i thought that spreadsheet was fantastic before!

    There is still research to be done and some more questions, but it seems to be making more sense to me now...

    Wnet to gym today for a BF assessment from a kid... good thing is 23%, and he knew how to do that. But thats where it stopped. He was insisting that I should be eating 6 meals to keep metabolism going... i asked him if had heard of IF, he said what is that? The conversation stopped.
  • Namwnguyen
    Namwnguyen Posts: 9
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    Sorry for the delayed reply. In terms of the specific calories you eat on lift vs non-lift days when cutting is your main goal, the numbers you mentioned seem reasonable if you are able to hit those numbers somewhat comfortably (Personally I get so hungry on lift days that I'd have a harder time going below +20% than i would going below -20% on non lift days. You can also experiment with fewer lifting and more low cal days (cardio days count as off days but, obviously, the caloric deficit on such a day comes largely from calories burned in exercise). I think the important thing is to be firm in your priority of cutting over strength gain until you've reached 12% bf (which is supposed to be an optimal point for muscle gain and retention.

    As for my own lifting practice, the idea in fasted training is to involve as little indurance as possible in order to avoid taxing your system except where it realy counts. So lift sessions are limited to one hour, weight is high but reps are low, and there's lots of rest time. I do reverse pyramid lifting as described on the lg site (i forget where) which is warming up with light weights, then starting with a weight where you can only do 5 reps, then decreasing the weight 10% and going for six reps, then decreasing it by 10% once more and going for 7 reps. I take 5 min rest btwn sets of the important compound movements (deadlifts, squats, bench, chin ups, and military press). I do only two sets of squats and deadlifts (which alows me to concentrate more and put my all into those grueling movements). I do 3 sets of the others.
  • scottywor
    scottywor Posts: 140 Member
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    Sorry for the delayed reply. In terms of the specific calories you eat on lift vs non-lift days when cutting is your main goal, the numbers you mentioned seem reasonable if you are able to hit those numbers somewhat comfortably (Personally I get so hungry on lift days that I'd have a harder time going below +20% than i would going below -20% on non lift days. You can also experiment with fewer lifting and more low cal days (cardio days count as off days but, obviously, the caloric deficit on such a day comes largely from calories burned in exercise). I think the important thing is to be firm in your priority of cutting over strength gain until you've reached 12% bf (which is supposed to be an optimal point for muscle gain and retention.

    As for my own lifting practice, the idea in fasted training is to involve as little indurance as possible in order to avoid taxing your system except where it realy counts. So lift sessions are limited to one hour, weight is high but reps are low, and there's lots of rest time. I do reverse pyramid lifting as described on the lg site (i forget where) which is warming up with light weights, then starting with a weight where you can only do 5 reps, then decreasing the weight 10% and going for six reps, then decreasing it by 10% once more and going for 7 reps. I take 5 min rest btwn sets of the important compound movements (deadlifts, squats, bench, chin ups, and military press). I do only two sets of squats and deadlifts (which alows me to concentrate more and put my all into those grueling movements). I do 3 sets of the others.

    Just before i ask my question - I have not yet started IF, jus trying to gather as much info as I can before i do!

    If cutting and weight loss are the goal is RPT doable, or practical, or are higher rep ranges a better route? I have seen differing opions... I have also seen a slightly higher rep rang in RPT for better/quicker fat loss... ie 8,10,12 (work sets) The reason I ask is, if Im running a deficit both work/rest days, eg: -10 or maintenance/-25 or -30, is taxing my system still beneficial or does it become a burden? As I am 23% BF, acording to Leangains, the opitimal start range is 15%. At my current BF I dont think the standard recomp +20/-20 would help. although i have read you can do LG at anytime. i assume the 15% is optimal for recomp, but for Fat Loss, any is doable, is this a correct assumption?Some of the LG IF stuff confuses me, when it comes to this, probably my over thinking...

    Currently my training I train as follows...

    weights 3 x week, Total Body - 6 compound ex. - 4 sets, 10-12 rep, up weight on last try for 12, use that weight next w/o... rest 60 sec, or so.

    3-4 days on non lifting cardio, running 4 miles, or 35 minutes, 9:50 per mile pace, HR ~160 during.

    Wondering if this is cool, or too much, less, thoughts?

    Thanks all
  • tigersword
    tigersword Posts: 8,059 Member
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    looking to talk or hear from anyone who has used Intermittent fasting, ideally, Leangains...

    I have found a weath of info on the web, and Martins site...

    http://www.leangains.com/2010/04/leangains-guide.html

    Still awaiting a book.... if it ever gets done, but I assume I could prolly find what I need to know on the web, blogs, etc.

    I have read the basics and I understand the protocol, but I cant seem to find any info on total caloric intake while doing the protocol, or specific macros... Are you running a deficit while on it? I would assume no...due to the suggested 5x5 type training approach. Or are you running maintainence intake? Intake on rest days vs. training? or free meals, refeeds etc...

    If anyone has any info on any of this im all ears, n thanks!

    Leangains doesn't change your diet. It just changes the timing. Instead of spreading your meals throughout the day, you eat them all within a small window. So whatever weight loss deficit you are eating, you would continue to eat with leangains. Whatever macro ratios you use, you would keep using.

    Leangains purpose is to extend the length of the fast between eating, not to change the amounts or types of foods you eat.

    As for training protocols and calorie zig zagging, that's not necessarily leangains specific. It's 100% personal preference how you set up your program.
  • Namwnguyen
    Namwnguyen Posts: 9
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    The information you want is on the internet. It's just scattered in different places on the leangains site and in posts by some of Martin's clients. The leangains faq is one good place. If it were me, I would never eat below mantinance on a lifting day even when trying to lose overall weight. Instead, I would decrease the number of lifting days and eat enough on those days. If you want to know Martin's take on high reps vs high weight you can check out the c.g. Animated youtube video that comes up when you search for leangains martinmartin berkhan or burkhan (however it's spelled).
  • Helloitsdan
    Helloitsdan Posts: 5,564 Member
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    http://rippedbody.jp/reverse-pyramid-training/
  • deninevi
    deninevi Posts: 934 Member
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    bump
  • Namwnguyen
    Namwnguyen Posts: 9
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    You may want to check out the leangains cheatsheet at nerd fitness rebellion. For cutting body fat, it suggests eating AT mantinance on lifting days and 20% below mantinance on non-lifting days.
  • imbanter
    imbanter Posts: 72 Member
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    I just started LG about a week ago and personally it fits my lifestyler perfectly. However, I will say that it has been a bit tough to get all of my calories in during the 8 hours that I'm eating. Look into the IF group as someone already suggested. I have found a lot of information in there as well as some very helpful people with great success stories.

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