are good FATS good for LOSING FAT?!

hkatrobos
hkatrobos Posts: 49
edited December 19 in Health and Weight Loss
tyring to figure this one out....

most of my fat comes from avacados, salmon, nuts, coconut oil and sometimes bacon :tongue: etc

i'm trying to build muscle and lower BF%

how many grams are ideal for 24 y/o F, 5'7", 130 lbs?!

am i consuming too much? too little?

open diary
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Replies

  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,431 MFP Moderator
    tyring to figure this one out....

    most of my fat comes from avacados, salmon, nuts, coconut oil and sometimes bacon :tongue: etc

    i'm trying to build muscle and lower BF%

    how many grams are ideal for 24 y/o F, 5'7", 130 lbs?!

    am i consuming too much? too little?

    open diary

    Except for transfats, all fats are good for you. Salmon and avocado's are just higher in calories and have sources of stuff like Omega's 3 which can improve weight loss.

    Also, you can't cut body fat and gain muscle. They are different approaches. One is a calorie deficit and one is a calorie surplus.

    ps- the biggest thing that will hurt your results is the alcohol that i see fairly regularly.
  • hkatrobos
    hkatrobos Posts: 49
    oh cheese and eggs too...

    is cheese a bad fat? i find i eat a lot of cheese, but mostly for the protein!!
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,431 MFP Moderator
    oh cheese and eggs too...

    is cheese a bad fat? i find i eat a lot of cheese, but mostly for the protein!!

    I dairy every day and I have lost 6% body fat so far. It's good fat. And I added more to my original statement.
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 10,262 Member
    Those fats are fine, but if you want to build muscle you need to lift like hell and eat enough protein. Weight loss is about deficit and i suspect with your stats, your looking to tone up, so just lift heavy, eat your protein and be in a slight deficit.
  • Glucocorticoid
    Glucocorticoid Posts: 867 Member
    Your thread title implies you want to lose fat but you say you want to build muscle. So which is it?
  • hkatrobos
    hkatrobos Posts: 49
    both! are you saying that you can not lower BF% while gaining muscle mass?!
  • snowgrrl83
    snowgrrl83 Posts: 242 Member
    You NEED to eat fat to make your body function properly.
    Yes, fat is good.
    What you are trying to do is called a "Body recomposition" lose fat and maintain/gain muscle at the same time. This means that you need to eat lots of protein, lift heavy while eating at maintenance level calories. You need some fat in your diet, otherwise you will go crazy and binge or quit your diet....or your body will go nutzo. You need fat for your organs to function properly.
  • snowgrrl83
    snowgrrl83 Posts: 242 Member
    It is very difficult/nearly impossible to a significant gain muscle while losing fat at the same time...
  • Glucocorticoid
    Glucocorticoid Posts: 867 Member
    both! are you saying that you can not lower BF% while gaining muscle mass?!

    Lower BF% and losing fat are not the same thing. You can lower your BF% by gaining muscle.

    For example, let's say I weigh 195 and carry 30 lbs of fat. My BF% is 15%.

    I can now gain 10 lbs of muscle and weigh 205. My BF% is now 14.5%.
    Or I can now lose 10lbs of fat and weigh 185. My BF% is now about 11%.

    But yes, outside of newbie gains when you first start out, you should just consider it an impossibility to gain muscle while losing fat. The body is doing opposite things for these processes and will have mutually exclusive requirements.
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 10,262 Member
    both! are you saying that you can not lower BF% while gaining muscle mass?!
    Yes, but on a time line, it's equally to a nanosecond, they're called nubee gains if a person has never done any weight training before, so basically no, for all intense and purposes, especially for a woman. Sometimes when body fat is reduced it makes people appear bigger and more muscular it has to do with ratio's, like shoulder with compared to waist width.......the smaller the waist from fat loss, shoulders look bigger for example. If you don't actually have much muscle mass and appear skinny fat, then a more aggresive bulking/cutting phases are needed, but you don't look like your in that catergory.
  • jacksonpt
    jacksonpt Posts: 10,413 Member
    You NEED to eat fat to make your body function properly.
    Yes, fat is good.
    What you are trying to do is called a "Body recomposition" lose fat and maintain/gain muscle at the same time. This means that you need to eat lots of protein, lift heavy while eating at maintenance level calories. You need some fat in your diet, otherwise you will go crazy and binge or quit your diet....or your body will go nutzo. You need fat for your organs to function properly.

    and
    It is very difficult/nearly impossible to a significant gain muscle while losing fat at the same time...


    Listen to this one... she knows her stuff.
  • clobercow
    clobercow Posts: 337 Member
    For sure! Natural fats over carbs will make us feel more satiated. Just make sure you get enough protein. I would say for you about .3 grams per lb of lean body mass. The rest can be fats or carbs. Our body tend to prefer burning fats over carbs. When we eat carbs, we spike insulin and it causes those sugars to go to fat. Want t know more? PM me.
  • Glucocorticoid
    Glucocorticoid Posts: 867 Member
    Do yourself a favor and don't PM him.
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 10,262 Member
    Do yourself a favor and don't PM him.
    LOL..quoted for truth.
  • stargazer008
    stargazer008 Posts: 531
    Just eat fats except for trans fats. Fats can help you feel fuller than eating carbohydrates. Plus the body requires fat to function such as nutrient absorption. Saturated fats aren't bad for you because your body requires them too so don't be afraid of them.
  • LaurenAOK
    LaurenAOK Posts: 2,475 Member
    You NEED to eat fat to make your body function properly.
    Yes, fat is good.
    What you are trying to do is called a "Body recomposition" lose fat and maintain/gain muscle at the same time. This means that you need to eat lots of protein, lift heavy while eating at maintenance level calories. You need some fat in your diet, otherwise you will go crazy and binge or quit your diet....or your body will go nutzo. You need fat for your organs to function properly.

    Thank you for this. I have goals similar to the OP's and just posted a topic asking if I should be eating at maintenance or at a deficit. According to your post I should stay at maintenance which makes sense to me, but someone else had told me I should go to a deficit so I was confused. So thanks again!
  • ryliejaiden
    ryliejaiden Posts: 68
    these fats are great for you and as long as you aren't eating more than about 40g in a day, you'll be fine.
    I like to limit my fat to 9g a meal.
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 10,262 Member
    You NEED to eat fat to make your body function properly.
    Yes, fat is good.
    What you are trying to do is called a "Body recomposition" lose fat and maintain/gain muscle at the same time. This means that you need to eat lots of protein, lift heavy while eating at maintenance level calories. You need some fat in your diet, otherwise you will go crazy and binge or quit your diet....or your body will go nutzo. You need fat for your organs to function properly.

    Thank you for this. I have goals similar to the OP's and just posted a topic asking if I should be eating at maintenance or at a deficit. According to your post I should stay at maintenance which makes sense to me, but someone else had told me I should go to a deficit so I was confused. So thanks again!
    Lifting at maintenance will structurally build more muscle then at a deficit and during this phase you'll actually be putting yourself into a deficit from that muscle building, which if you continue to do this, which may take longer will turn out to be the more successful route to a better body recomposition.
  • clobercow
    clobercow Posts: 337 Member
    Do yourself a favor and don't PM him.
    LOL..quoted for truth.

    Pathetic childishness. If it doesn't agree with your diet myths, then no one should talk to me. Makes sense. I'll be ignoring this thread now because the trolls are already out throwing stones.
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 10,262 Member
    Do yourself a favor and don't PM him.
    LOL..quoted for truth.

    Pathetic childishness. If it doesn't agree with your diet myths, then no one should talk to me. Makes sense. I'll be ignoring this thread now because the trolls are already out throwing stones.
    If it was just one aspect of your post that didn't make any sense, that's one thing but every point you made is totally off base and proof a little information is dangerous in the wrong hands.
  • beckybrouse
    beckybrouse Posts: 6 Member
    Check out this YouTube - > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6pLRdawBw0 which is a presentation from the renowned Dr. Esselstyn.

    Evidence is interesting that we should not ingest ANY oils. This is not an extreme idea but it does go against mainstream habits and life styles. This presentation also focuses on animal protein and the research suggests animal protein is sabotaging our bodies.

    I'm searching healthy living just as you are. It can become overwhelming and a lot to consider. My best to you!
  • Glucocorticoid
    Glucocorticoid Posts: 867 Member
    Esselstyn is a moron.
  • jofjltncb6
    jofjltncb6 Posts: 34,415 Member
    I'm not as convinced about this "can't lose fat and gain muscle at the same time" mantra. For muscle gain, you need 1) a stimulus (like weight training) and 2) available raw materials. Fat loss is the result of eating a calorie deficit...however, that deficit includes activity the body does *such as building muscle* if it perceives it is needed (in response to that stimulus). You can lose a remarkable amount of fat (and other weight) in a short amount of time. Building muscle is necessarily and relatively slow.

    For example, losing TEN pounds of fat in two months is nothing shocking...but over that same period, gaining even TWO pounds of muscle is phenomenal. In fact, I don't think the average person even notices the muscle gain in this scenario. Eventually, they stop losing fat so quickly and then notice the muscle gain and deduce that it was linear...that they lost fat THEN gained muscle. I say, they were more likely doing both at the same time but only noticed the muscle gain after the fat loss.

    I'm being lazy and not providing any cites for my position...so I'll just call it my opinion (at least until someone being less lazy than me right now provides some support). The good news is, if this was the only thing people ever disagreed about re diets, the world would be a happy place.

    And yes, keep eating those healthy fats. They provide benefits beyond just their calories.

    And here's a smiley, because I've heard that these help people not to think I'm a jerk: :smile:
  • Glucocorticoid
    Glucocorticoid Posts: 867 Member
    Outside of newbie gains, you cannot gain muscle without a caloric surplus.
  • joejccva71
    joejccva71 Posts: 2,985 Member
    Outside of newbie gains, you cannot gain muscle without a caloric surplus.

    Dude what's the use. People can't grasp simple biology.
  • jofjltncb6
    jofjltncb6 Posts: 34,415 Member
    Outside of newbie gains, you cannot gain muscle without a caloric surplus.

    Well, I disagree based primarily on the position that building muscle is one of the expenditures of energy of the body involved in the overall calculation of the calorie deficit needed to lose fat. Just my opinion (and admittedly, your side of this argument certainly seems to have greater CW support. I'm just saying that CW is wrong about this.)
  • hkatrobos
    hkatrobos Posts: 49
    i DO eat fat. i DO know the difference between healthy fats and unhealthy fats (if you read my original post you'd see what fats i consume the most) i am cool with fat, folks...

    i guess my question is not clearly stated and i wasn't really thinking of losing actual fat WEIGHT just overall BF% sorry for the wrong post description....

    also, these answers would make more sense if you guys actually checked my diary before posting and saw that i eat 100+ grams of protein a day and about 50 grams of fat a day ... i'm not worried about carbs. i lift heavy a couple days a week do body weight exercises and cardio.

    i would just like to know if 50 grams of fat a day is too low or too high for me to accomplish lowering BF% or if it makes a difference at all....
  • ciordia9
    ciordia9 Posts: 7
    The body is a thermodynamic machine that watches trends. To gain a healthy amount of muscle requires a higher volume of nutrient to be in the stream for an extended period of time. When I was bodybuilding during gain seasons I'd eat over 5000 calories and a chunk of proteins etc to have available during german volume training. Then you switch your program during the late winter early fall to cutting and remove all the excess that built along with muscle.

    It's all availability. Just eating protein doesn't give you mass, stripping down your muscle and having all the necessary nutrient there for rebuilding over and over is required. If you are trying to lose fat you are trying to deficit these ideas aka counterproductive. Many thread commenters are spot on this logic. It's a simple assertion that while you may gain some muscle during a loss period you will not gain nearly as much as if you were trying to heartily gain.

    Now for this poster, the beginning of the thread, she may not want more than what can be gained during a cut cycle. I don't recall hearing the real goals of bf% loss and lean mass gain. If they are within tolerance it may be feasible. Otherwise, cut now for the summer and make your lean mass goals for the winter. Cut it back down during the late season and you'll be right where you want to be next Spring/Summer.

    None of this is new logic but has been tested for decades by those in bb'ing.
  • Captain_Tightpants
    Captain_Tightpants Posts: 2,215 Member
    The only fats you should avoid are trans fats.

    All others (sat, polyunsat, monounsat) are fine. So long as you fit them into your daily calorie allowance you will lose fat.
  • Glucocorticoid
    Glucocorticoid Posts: 867 Member
    Outside of newbie gains, you cannot gain muscle without a caloric surplus.

    Well, I disagree based primarily on the position that building muscle is one of the expenditures of energy of the body involved in the overall calculation of the calorie deficit needed to lose fat. Just my opinion (and admittedly, your side of this argument certainly seems to have greater CW support. I'm just saying that CW is wrong about this.)

    Who the hell is CW?
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