This is BS.

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  • pants77
    pants77 Posts: 185 Member
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    after doing even more resarch, reading lengthy posts from helloitsdan, and some amazing infomation on this site. I tried a new approach. Lifting heavy. I upped my cals to 1700 (15% below TDEE, not eat exercise calories back), i expected weight gain after putting my body though so much starvation mode. I wasn't as much as expected. so started off with some programmes and meal panning from bodybuilding.com.... that worked for about 4 weeks until i realized I couldn't really do it without a gym.

    If you are eating 15% below TDEE and also not eating your exercise calories back, you shouldn't expect to gain weight. Caloric deficit = weight loss, caloric surplus = weight gain. Whether it's fat or muscle weight depends on your level of diet and exercise.

    I'm not an expert but it sounds like you need to increase your cals significantly - over your TDEE + exercise calorie level, keep the diet clean, and keep hitting the heavy weights. This should help you build muscle. Then after a few months you could switch back to a deficit and use your added muscle mass to burn off the remaining fat.

    Also, going to 15% below TDEE w/o exercise cals is not going to get you out of starvation mode if that's where you are/were. You need to eat at maintenance or higher for a good week or two to reset your metabolism.
  • tdmcmains
    tdmcmains Posts: 227 Member
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    You look pretty awesome to me in your pics. I would say... It looks like you've been really lifting heavy for 2 months (with a change in between). I think it might just take a little longer than that to see changes. I've been working at it a year or so (not really lifting heavy but doing stuff like JM videos but with 10lb weights) and my changes are really slow. I recently added tabata 2-3 times a week and it's made a noticeable difference. Maybe something to try??
    I think ya just need to keep doing what you're doing. You're already pretty fit, so I wouldn't expect to see a huge measurement or weight change...
  • Rocbola
    Rocbola Posts: 1,998 Member
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    The calorie thing is not BS, it's just a PART of the larger picture. I read over this whole thing, and i didn't see one mention of WHAT you are eating.
    You will stay fat as long as you continue to eat:
    Refined foods
    Processed foods
    Oils
    Man-made foods
    Incomplete foods

    What percentage of your calories comes from fat? Figure that out, and it's more than 10%, it's too high.

    Way to make things up, so above 10% is too much fat and eating any of the above listed are magically evil foods that will not allow you to lose fat? What fantasy land do you live in?

    I thought it, you said it. :drinker:
    Keep eating processed foods, then. Enjoy.
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,397 MFP Moderator
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    It seems like you almost have the right idea, but not quite, and then you aren't getting that quite right either.

    the simple rules are work out tdee, eat that. if you exercise, eat that too.

    Lift heavy, compound exercises.

    Make sure you are getting enough protein. 1-1.5g/lb of LBM

    The rest sorts itself out.

    Also don't listen to the guy going on about low fat etc - that post alone lets me know that he doesn't know what he's talking about.

    "Beware of false knowledge, it is more dangerous than ignorance"

    tdee AND eating back calories? even if my exercise was put at *strenuous-6 days a week*, i thought this takes it all into account?
    I heard about the protein for 1lb of lean body mass (so 100g a day for me) easy as... but this was due to tony hortons nutrition plan. (not so easy) lol

    Its just hard to comprehend so much food, considering I LITERALLY sit on my bum all day, at a workbench, and then go home and watch tv. the only exercise i do is my workouts.

    You should relook at the BB plan. Phase I starts you at 40% protein, 40% carbs and 20% fats. Your protein seems high for the program.
  • MissStatement
    MissStatement Posts: 92 Member
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    You did not give it enough time. What was your lifting program?

    Lee Labradas 12 week trainer on bodybuilding.com

    Did you go through the entire 12 weeks or did you only do 4 weeks? I was confused by your post. Heavy lifting is awesome, but it takes some time to make a visible difference.
  • thebunches
    thebunches Posts: 40
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    I highly recommend www.NattyNutrition.com. The owners are a husband/wife team who train not only bodybuilders, but also create nutrition plans for ANYONE looking to get healthy and/or lose weight. They are AWESOME and keep in touch with you every step of the way. You check in with them each week (via Skype or email, unless you are local to their area) and send pics and give updates. Then they tweak your diet again if needed, based on YOUR PERSONAL NEEDS and what your body type is, and the goal you desire to reach.

    www.NattyNutrition.com

    Tell them the Bunches sent you. :)
  • morkiemama
    morkiemama Posts: 897 Member
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    I just have to say something. If you were on your game from November to February, but then went off the rails in March and gained all the weight back and then some, it's misleading to say that you have been doing this for six months with no results. You had results, but you went off your plan and regained weight. It happens, but by no means is that considered sticking to the plan.

    This. :) I was doing great and then fell off the wagon myself. I don't blame the plan, I deviated from it. Now I have to work myself back there. We can do it though!
  • Nikki_42
    Nikki_42 Posts: 298 Member
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    Uhhmmm...slightly off topic, but I still wish you the best, just wondering...Where did you get the BATMAN bra and underwear!?!?!?!?

    Right?! I wasn't going to ask lol.
  • jcgrant43
    jcgrant43 Posts: 64
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    I may say to much here, but what the heck its the internet, it's not like a mob with torches and pitchforks will come for me....I think.

    1) Darling, I'm a dirty old man for saying this, but if you're skinny fat then I've got a serious thing for skinny fat girls. Which is totally new for me! I always liked athletic and you sure look that way!!! Wow! Plus an Aussie accent? Perfection wrapped in Batman underwear!!!!

    2) The P90X nutrition program is a generic, one size fits all piece of crap! Forget about it. Do your eat clean thing and don't sweat it. No diet plan can fit all people. It's just part of the sales pitch. Your smart. You saw a crazy claim on a website, and caught it for what it was.:flowerforyou: Same, same with P90X.

    3) If you're feeling that its all crap, then go with it. Nothing wrong with letting your body and mind rest for a month or two. Stop stressing. Eat the things you know are good. Don't worry about calories or exercise for a bit. Just have some fun, play, walk, enjoy life....hell, have a beer :drinker: and not worry about the calories. Come back to it all when your feeling motivated and interested in doing it again. (This is where the mob shows up right?)

    Take a break. We'll all still be here when you get back.......we'll maybe not.....I've only got a little bit further to go....but others will be! :smile:
  • drateno
    drateno Posts: 12
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    Stop drinking alcohol...I saw one of your pictures with a big drink. Those are the worst calories.:drinker: :drinker: :drinker:
  • taxidermist15
    taxidermist15 Posts: 677 Member
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    Uhhmmm...slightly off topic, but I still wish you the best, just wondering...Where did you get the BATMAN bra and underwear!?!?!?!?

    Bra's n Things (in australia), I also have a matching superman pair :P hhaha they just released a pair that has little batman comic drawings over them that say "pow" hahah thats my next purchase.

    Inregards to my lifting programme. I did do it for 4 weeks. I can only train at home (having no car and living 30 mins outside the nearest town) and some of the moves I just needed that equipment for, so thats hwy i switched over to insanity and p90x.

    I checked out that natty nutrition site.. it seem legit, although a bit expensive.. but maybe I can ask for it as a birthday present :)

    Ill keep at it. Just feeling disocuraged. the main thing is this dam calorie thing. Wether to do a cut/bulk programme, which i dont really wanna. But then all the calculators are telling me that my -20% tdee is 1700 cal, but now every say i should up it...
    does anyone know the most acurate ones? i used fat2fitradio. which seems like the main one everyone uses.


    EDIT: and ive cut alcohol, only drinking, maybe once in the past 3 months. easier than expected :)
  • lporter229
    lporter229 Posts: 4,907 Member
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    I just want to second what others have said. Just give it time and have some patience. When people talk about making a lifestyle change, it's not just about weight loss. It's about fitness too. Stuff does not happen over night.

    I also wanted to voice my opinion on TDEE. Yes, there are different ways of calculating it, but as one poster said, unless you are doing the same exact thing every day, there is a ton of variability in your TDEE. IMO, the most accurate way to track is by calculating it based on sedentary and logging all of your exercise calories. If you are taking the time to meticulously log your food, why would you throw that much variability into your exercise?

    ETA: Also, you might want to try redefining your goals and expectations. "Looking more fit" is fairly vague and sometime it's hard to recognize your progress with out concrete mile stones. Maybe try to increase the number of pushups you can do, the amount of weight you can lift, or the distance you can run. Give yourself something you can measure. Accomplish it and move on. i think you will gain much more satisfaction in what you have accomplished.
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,397 MFP Moderator
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    Uhhmmm...slightly off topic, but I still wish you the best, just wondering...Where did you get the BATMAN bra and underwear!?!?!?!?

    Bra's n Things (in australia), I also have a matching superman pair :P hhaha they just released a pair that has little batman comic drawings over them that say "pow" hahah thats my next purchase.

    Inregards to my lifting programme. I did do it for 4 weeks. I can only train at home (having no car and living 30 mins outside the nearest town) and some of the moves I just needed that equipment for, so thats hwy i switched over to insanity and p90x.

    I checked out that natty nutrition site.. it seem legit, although a bit expensive.. but maybe I can ask for it as a birthday present :)

    Ill keep at it. Just feeling disocuraged. the main thing is this dam calorie thing. Wether to do a cut/bulk programme, which i dont really wanna. But then all the calculators are telling me that my -20% tdee is 1700 cal, but now every say i should up it...
    does anyone know the most acurate ones? i used fat2fitradio. which seems like the main one everyone uses.


    EDIT: and ive cut alcohol, only drinking, maybe once in the past 3 months. easier than expected :)

    What factor are you using from F2F? Are you setting it moderately active or very active?


    Also, like I said, your goal is at 1700 but most days you are less than 1600. Start eating higher calorie foods and get to 1700 or over. P90X is tough as it is, but if you switch to insanity to add harder cardio, you burn more calories. Add some nuts or extra virgin olive oil to your routine.
  • cmayfield3
    cmayfield3 Posts: 176 Member
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    EDIT: and ive cut alcohol, only drinking, maybe once in the past 3 months. easier than expected :)

    You went on a month-long vacation, including Vegas, and only drank once? If so, I am impressed. If not, I think you have a compliance problem, not a physiological one.
  • taxidermist15
    taxidermist15 Posts: 677 Member
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    EDIT: and ive cut alcohol, only drinking, maybe once in the past 3 months. easier than expected :)

    You went on a month-long vacation, including Vegas, and only drank once? If so, I am impressed. If not, I think you have a compliance problem, not a physiological one.

    vegas i drank, the four days i was there at the start of march. I was the deso for my roadtrip the rest of the holiday. so the majority of march, april and may, havent touched a drop.
  • taxidermist15
    taxidermist15 Posts: 677 Member
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    I just want to second what others have said. Just give it time and have some patience. When people talk about making a lifestyle change, it's not just about weight loss. It's about fitness too. Stuff does not happen over night.

    I also wanted to voice my opinion on TDEE. Yes, there are different ways of calculating it, but as one poster said, unless you are doing the same exact thing every day, there is a ton of variability in your TDEE. IMO, the most accurate way to track is by calculating it based on sedentary and logging all of your exercise calories. If you are taking the time to meticulously log your food, why would you throw that much variability into your exercise?

    wow... this is a good point, I never thought of it that way (probably because i don''t have an hrm)
    I know I know i should get one, But I just started my own business, i can barely feed myself. lol again, another birthday gift is on my list :)
    again, why i thought using tdee would be the easiest was of doing the whole exercise/calorie thing

    you guys are amazing! the positive thoughts and different points of view have really helped. Ill stick with my hybrid, eat more calorie dense foods (not neccesarily more food) and keep up the hard work.
    I dont know why people have so much hate for this site
  • morkiemama
    morkiemama Posts: 897 Member
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    EDIT: and ive cut alcohol, only drinking, maybe once in the past 3 months. easier than expected :)

    You went on a month-long vacation, including Vegas, and only drank once? If so, I am impressed. If not, I think you have a compliance problem, not a physiological one.

    vegas i drank, the four days i was there at the start of march. I was the deso for my roadtrip the rest of the holiday. so the majority of march, april and may, havent touched a drop.

    Alcohol aside, I would give the plan more time before you think the plan isn't working. You admitted you fell off the wagon in between and put on not only the weight you initially lost, but more. Thus, you cannot say you've been working for 6 months with NO results.

    It is okay that you fell off the wagon (heck, most of us do!), but you need to acknowledge that you can't get back to where you were instantly. Stick with it and the results will come! :)
  • LabRat529
    LabRat529 Posts: 1,323 Member
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    Sometimes I lie to myself and others by saying I can't lose weight even when eating at a big calorie deficit and exercising. Really, though, what I do is eat at a calorie deficit most days, then binge and eat at a surplus. Or I forget to count things. Or I don't measure my portions correctly. Or I over-estimate how many calories I'm burning while exercising. Or I underestimate how many calories I'm really eating. The end result is no calorie deficit and no weight loss.

    The harsh but true reality for me and everyone else is we can lose weight if we really, honestly are at a deficit. We can. I currently lack the willpower, self-awareness, and dedication necessary to make it happen for me. And, OP, as mean as it might sound (I really am NOT trying to be mean here), maybe you don't have what it takes right now.

    So my honest suggestion is to do what I'm currently doing- focus on something you CAN do and do that something well.

    For me, it's weight lifting. I'm in love with weight lifting. I lift 3 times a week. I get grouchy if I can't go. I've also added in yoga. I've seen HUGE improvements in my physical health due to lifting. My blood pressure is lower than it has been in years. The chronic pain I've endured for the last 10 years? Almost completely gone. I have energy. I can hike. I can ride a bike. I can toy with running (a little). I have more confidence. I'm happier and better able to handle stress. It's awesome.

    But guess what? I'm still fat. Because I haven't mastered the eating consistently at a calorie deficit thing. I'd like to master the calorie deficit thing one day. Until then, I'll stay fat but I'll keep lifting and I'll keep trying.
  • blizzardsmom
    blizzardsmom Posts: 63 Member
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    Looked at about a week of your diary, you are over on something just about every day, lots of times the amount of fat you take in. Try really hard tostay within all boundries
  • kris4chloe
    kris4chloe Posts: 245 Member
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    Honestly I see a pretty big difference in your before and after and like others have said it appears you are already quite thin but just want that cut look. That takes longer then just losing mass amounts of weight and the closer you are to goal the harder it will be. As well as lowering your body fat percentage.

    I know for me since I am closing in on my goal I have had to really watch my food intake (but I do indulge in skinny cow as you can tell by my dairy last night) and I have had to up my exercise to get the scale moving and start seeing a change. Your changes are going to be much less obvious but I do see a big improvement.

    P90X is a 90 day program so I say give it a full 90 days and re-evaluate and go easy on yourself on the eating. Allow yourself a few times to eat off of plan so that you stick to it. I try to follow a 90/10 idea (90% good 10% not so good). When I try to eat 100% clean I can only make it about 10 days and then I freak out and have an entire day that is bad, that was NOT working.

    Go easy on yourself, know that you are working on getting fit and be patient. :)

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