The "fat Burning zone" thing...
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The fat burning zone is, however, of interest to endurance athletes as your body is only capable of storing a limited amount of glycogen but even a skinny marathon runner has 35,000 or more calories of fat available.
This is important... Unless you're an athlete, heart rate target zones are not relevant to you.0 -
The heart rate monitor is a pretty effective way of gauging calorie burn during a cardio workout, which P90X isn't. I would probably not bother with it.
There's nothing wrong with doing high intensity (read: high heart rate) workouts for cardiovascular improvement. But if you're working at 80-90% of your max heart rate, you are using more glycogen as fuel than fat. If fat burn is what you're after during a cardio workout, you really do want to work at about 65-85% max heart rate. That doesn't mean you aren't burning calories at a high intensity level... You are in fact burning more of them. It's just the ratio of fat/glycogen usage that changes.
I don't agree that P90-X isn't a cardio workout, and it's not smart to use a HRM. I use my HRM on all my P90X workouts, and I burn a boat load of calories. Now it is true that only some of the P90X workouts are aerobic, but anything that increases your heart rate is cardio vascular.0 -
ok, so i just got my new HRM (polar ft4) and did all the settings on it and calculated my max heart rate and all that sorta stuff. I calculated max heart rate as 220- age (or whatever it was, some calculation)
I am also doing the insanity programme, mixed with some P90x.
So when I do Insanity My heart rate goes through the roof and my silly little gadget wont stop beeping. This is when I really push myself.
If i exercise at my "target heat rate zone". it doesn't feel as if i'm pushing myself, I don't feel a burn, I don't get such a good sweat up and it kinda feels like cheating.
Originally I just brought my HRM to know exact calories I'm Burning, and now this heart rate zone has opened up a new can of worms. (which I know nothing about), can someone enlighten me on the whole heart rate zone things?
I agree with all of them about the "fat burning zone" however if you got the HRM to just measure your calories burned accurately, they do not the can only estimate based upon measurements and algorithms. But they will give you a good idea on what you burn
It also makes sense to convert the gross calories that the HRM gives to net calories burned. Gross calories burned includes the calories burned from exercise, as well as the calories you would have burned anyway just by being alive. If you don't convert to net calories burned, you run the risk of counting the same calories twice when you go to figure out your calorie intake.
Here's a summary: http://www.shapesense.com/fitness-exercise/articles/net-versus-gross-calorie-burn.aspx#acommonmistakerelatedtonetandgrosscalorieburn
I have a link to a good converter, but I can't seem to get to it from this laptop. I'll post it later tonite/tomorrow.0 -
Pretty much this. It depends on what your goals are. If you're just trying to lose weight then you don't need to get much more complicated than calories burned > calories eaten. But there ARE reasons one would want to pay attention to heart rate & train accordingly.This is important... Unless you're an athlete, heart rate target zones are not relevant to you.
I just completed a 12-week heart rate training program that not only got my weight moving downward again, but greatly increased my running pace & improved my cardiovascular fitness. I compared similar runs from before & after the program:
- BEFORE: I did a 7k race at about a 13:00 min/mi pace & my average HR was 154 bpm, which is Zone 4-5 for me. I pushed it hard the entire race & thought I might die a few times...it was rough.
- AFTER: About a week ago I did a structured 60-min cardio workout at about the same pace, where I was to stay in Zone 2 for 40 min (128-138), then Zone 4 for the last 20 (>147 bpm). My avg HR for this workout was 134 bpm, even with 20 min over my threshold.
The biggest difference was perceived level of exertion. The 7k basically sucked. It was hard. My workout last week was awesome. Even the Zone 4 part was reasonably comfortable compared to before.
On top of that, my VO2 max improved by 45% in just 12 weeks of focused heart rate training (see profile pic...I was down in the green at the start of my program). This will make a difference when I start my half-marathon training later this summer. I'm so pleased with my results that I'm starting another 12-wk round this coming Sunday.
So again, it depends on your goals. If you have any endurance-sport-related goals, then don't dismiss HR training. But if you're just trying to get a good calorie burn, don't worry too much about it.
ETA: I wouldn't say the "fat burning zone" thing is a myth. Someone else mentioned that there is a point where you body stops burning fat completely & that's the anaerobic threshold (bottom of Zone 4). For someone like me who still has fat to lose, another benefit of the program I just completed is that my body has been conditioned to actually burn fat when I'm running 13-minute miles. I was burning zero fat at the same pace before.0 -
Here's the best answer possible:
1. Your actual max heart rate could be as high as 210 or more and still be "normal". An estimated max heart rate should just be used as a general road map until you actually start exercising and can compare your feelings of perceived exertion with your exercise heart rate.
2. There is no "fat burning zone". There are intensity levels at which the body burns a higher percentage of fat for fuel (the highest percentage being at rest). However, the percentage of fat burned during a workout or the total amount of fat burned during a workout HAS NO EFFECT ON STORED BODY FAT. In other words there is NO advantage whatsoever in trying to "burn more fat" during a workout.
2A. The same holds true for "working for a certain duration so that your body switches from burning carbs to burning fat". That indeed might happen, but it is of zero significance when it comes to reducing body fat. Your goals during exercise are to: train for fitness, maximize overall calorie expenditure, and conserve lean muscle mass. That is achieved through a balanced program that includes cardio exercise of different intensities and duration, and resistance training.
in other words, go for it !! push yourself
This is the correct answer
The part about resistance training is key: muscle burns fat, so get more muscle and you'll burn more fat.0 -
Pretty much this. It depends on what your goals are. If you're just trying to lose weight then you don't need to get much more complicated than calories burned > calories eaten. But there ARE reasons one would want to pay attention to heart rate & train accordingly.This is important... Unless you're an athlete, heart rate target zones are not relevant to you.
I just complete a 12-week heart rate training program that not only got my weight moving downward again, but grately increased my running pace & improved my cardiovascular fitness. I compared similar runs from before & after the program:
- BEFORE: I did a 7k race at about a 13:00 min/mi pace & my average HR was 154 bpm, which is Zone 4-5 for me. I pushed it hard the entire race & thought I might die a few times...it was rough.
- AFTER: About a week ago I did a structured 60-min cardio workout at about the same pace, where I was to stay in Zone 2 for 40 min (128-138), then Zone 4 for the last 20 (>147 bpm). My avg HR for this workout was 134 bpm, even with 20 min over my threshold.
The biggest difference was perceived level of exertion. The 7k basically sucked. It was hard. My workout last week was awesome. Even the Zone 4 part was reasonably comfortable compared to before.
On top of that, my VO2 max improved by 45% in just 12 weeks of focused heart rate training (see profile pic...I was down in the green at the start of my program). This will make a difference when I start my half-marathon training later this summer. I'm so pleased with my results that I'm starting another 12-wk round this coming Sunday.
So again, it depends on your goals. If you have any endurance-sport-related goals, then don't dismiss HR training. But if you're just trying to get a good calorie burn, don't worry too much about it.
That's an amazing increase in your VO max... where does one find a 'heart rate training program"?0 -
If you exceed your target heart rate you will only burn sugar...not fat.
Doesn't sugar turn to fat?0 -
Thanks! I was really surprised at the results myself. I purchased a metabolic assessment package at my gym, so I did a resting test to figure out what my intake is supposed to be then an exercise test to establish where my HR zones are. Then the computer cranked out this 12-week program of structured workouts for me to follow, & I followed it. It was one of the best investments ever, & not very spendy, I think I paid about $130 for the initial test. After every 12-week cycle I can get an exercise retest for $55 that tells me what has changed.That's an amazing increase in your VO max... where does one find a 'heart rate training program"?0 -
There is no point at which your body stops burning fat completely. It just drops to a lower percentage of fat burned. The boundary where you cross from the aerobic to anarobic is where lactic acid starts to build up faster than your body gets rid of it. That is what causes your muscles to become sore. Also note that even if the percentage of fat burned drops you are burning more calories overall at higher HRs. So trying to keep your HR down is not necessary unless there is a medical reason behind it.0
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Here's the best answer possible:
1. Your actual max heart rate could be as high as 210 or more and still be "normal". An estimated max heart rate should just be used as a general road map until you actually start exercising and can compare your feelings of perceived exertion with your exercise heart rate.
2. There is no "fat burning zone". There are intensity levels at which the body burns a higher percentage of fat for fuel (the highest percentage being at rest). However, the percentage of fat burned during a workout or the total amount of fat burned during a workout HAS NO EFFECT ON STORED BODY FAT. In other words there is NO advantage whatsoever in trying to "burn more fat" during a workout.
2A. The same holds true for "working for a certain duration so that your body switches from burning carbs to burning fat". That indeed might happen, but it is of zero significance when it comes to reducing body fat. Your goals during exercise are to: train for fitness, maximize overall calorie expenditure, and conserve lean muscle mass. That is achieved through a balanced program that includes cardio exercise of different intensities and duration, and resistance training.
in other words, go for it !! push yourself
This IS the correct answer.
It would be nice to have a voting system on this forum.0 -
completely and utterly false...If you exceed your target heart rate you will only burn sugar...not fat.0 -
Don't worry about staying within a HR "fat burning zone", just focus on totally calorie deficit. If you create a 3,500 weekly calorie deficit and meet your protein and complex carbohydrate goals, you will lose weight. Try to do some strengthening or weight lifting program to build lean muscle as lean muscle helps raise metabolism.0
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Ty for this! I think the exercise specialist at the weight management program I go to tried to explain this and I didn't quite get it til now.Here's the best answer possible:
1. Your actual max heart rate could be as high as 210 or more and still be "normal". An estimated max heart rate should just be used as a general road map until you actually start exercising and can compare your feelings of perceived exertion with your exercise heart rate.
2. There is no "fat burning zone". There are intensity levels at which the body burns a higher percentage of fat for fuel (the highest percentage being at rest). However, the percentage of fat burned during a workout or the total amount of fat burned during a workout HAS NO EFFECT ON STORED BODY FAT. In other words there is NO advantage whatsoever in trying to "burn more fat" during a workout.
2A. The same holds true for "working for a certain duration so that your body switches from burning carbs to burning fat". That indeed might happen, but it is of zero significance when it comes to reducing body fat. Your goals during exercise are to: train for fitness, maximize overall calorie expenditure, and conserve lean muscle mass. That is achieved through a balanced program that includes cardio exercise of different intensities and duration, and resistance training.
in other words, go for it !! push yourself0 -
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Thanks! I was really surprised at the results myself. I purchased a metabolic assessment package at my gym, so I did a resting test to figure out what my intake is supposed to be then an exercise test to establish where my HR zones are. Then the computer cranked out this 12-week program of structured workouts for me to follow, & I followed it. It was one of the best investments ever, & not very spendy, I think I paid about $130 for the initial test. After every 12-week cycle I can get an exercise retest for $55 that tells me what has changed.That's an amazing increase in your VO max... where does one find a 'heart rate training program"?
Wow, very cool. I'll have to check with my gym.
Also, regarding the 'zone' thing, this morning I did the P90-X plyometrics routine, and burned 817 net calories. My heart rate, according to my HRM, spent a whole lot of time above the 'zone 3' line - 160's up to 170. Technically, because I'm 44, my 'max' heart rate is only 176, but I felt find and just kept going. It was a great workout, and I had an awesome recovery shake afterwards (my own concoction).
A few years ago, when I was in worse shape, my heart rate would get up into the 190's when I went running - quite a bit over my estimated max HR. But the numbers are just estimates, and everyone is different. Work out at the highest intensity that you can, without feeling like you're ready to hurl/collapse/etc. Listen to your body as you go, and over time, your heart rate for the same exercise and intensity will come down.0 -
Only thing that you should worry about when it comes to calorie burn is burning as much as you can in the time allotted. That's it.
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Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
As long as you don't feel like you're going to pass out, turn the beeping off.
http://www.polar.fi/e_manuals/FT4/Polar_FT4_user_manual_English/manual.pdf
Page 10.
Edited for spelling.0 -
completely and utterly false...If you exceed your target heart rate you will only burn sugar...not fat.
Yeah this sounded weird to me too. If it is true then what do you burn after this "infinate" supply of sugar is all used up?
Sure would be nice to have a fool proof way to burn up all sugar.
I tend to believe that the harder the work the more you burn.0 -
Here's the best answer possible:
1. Your actual max heart rate could be as high as 210 or more and still be "normal". An estimated max heart rate should just be used as a general road map until you actually start exercising and can compare your feelings of perceived exertion with your exercise heart rate.
2. There is no "fat burning zone". There are intensity levels at which the body burns a higher percentage of fat for fuel (the highest percentage being at rest). However, the percentage of fat burned during a workout or the total amount of fat burned during a workout HAS NO EFFECT ON STORED BODY FAT. In other words there is NO advantage whatsoever in trying to "burn more fat" during a workout.
2A. The same holds true for "working for a certain duration so that your body switches from burning carbs to burning fat". That indeed might happen, but it is of zero significance when it comes to reducing body fat. Your goals during exercise are to: train for fitness, maximize overall calorie expenditure, and conserve lean muscle mass. That is achieved through a balanced program that includes cardio exercise of different intensities and duration, and resistance training.
in other words, go for it !! push yourself
This this this!!!0 -
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