Looking to GAIN

pkfrankel · July 2012

I signed up to MFP two months ago. My goal was to lose about 10 pounds by eliminating the sugar sweets I ate. I basically met that goal but discovered that I am, and always have been, "skinny fat." My understanding of the term is a skinny person without good muscle tone. That's me.

My new goal is to add 10 pounds. More importantly, I want to exchange fat for muscle. So I spent some time doing research on exercise and nutrition and this is what I learned.

The Katch McArdle formula calculates BMR as 370 + (21.6 x LBM) where LBM = weight in Kg x (1-BMI). For me that equates to 1,634 calories. If I calculate my TDEE I should consume 2,614 calories.

I learned that the minimum increase in calories a person should eat is 1.2 x TDEE if they want to build muscle mass. For me that is 3,137 calories. If anyone wants to confirm or dispute my assumptions, please do.

There were several different theories as to how much protein I should eat to gain muscle mass from as few as 132 g per day (.8 x body weight) to 220 g per day (1.33 x body weight). I settled on 200.

My workouts will include more weight training and less cardio. I discovered that I will never be able to eat back all the calories I was burning in my cardio (sometimes 1,800 kcal per day).

My question is whether it matters if the non-protein calories are carbs or fat? Understand that I will still follow a healthy diet. It will take some great effort to consume 3,000 plus calories if my calculations are correct.

Please comment.

LesterBlackstone · July 2012

My new goal is to add 10 pounds. More importantly, I want to exchange fat for muscle.

Not gonna happen.

I learned that the minimum increase in calories a person should eat is 1.2 x TDEE if they want to build muscle mass.

For someone in their 20's, this makes sense. At 52 you want to be much more conservative (unless you're on hormone replacement).

My question is whether it matters if the non-protein calories are carbs or fat?

Your surplus should be primarily carbs. Not only do carbs have an additional "sink" for storage, but the process of converting dietary carbs to adipose tissue (DNL) is extremely inefficient.

Dietary fat (on the other hand) is stored rather easily. You don't want to go too low (bad things happen hormonally) but once minimum needs are met, there's no real advantage to excess fat when eating in a surplus.

My recommendation:
~ Shoot for around a 200cal/day surplus
~ Set protein at 1g/lb of bodyweight
~ Set fat at around .4g/lb of bodyweight
~ Fill in the rest with carbs.

pkfrankel · July 2012

Thanks for your comments. One question. You recommend 200 calorie surplus. Surplus above what number? BMR calories of 1600 or TDEE of 2600.

LesterBlackstone · July 2012

Thanks for your comments. One question. You recommend 200 calorie surplus. Surplus above what number? BMR calories of 1600 or TDEE of 2600.

TDEE.

hopeC12 · July 2012

Your surplus should be primarily carbs. Not only do carbs have an additional "sink" for storage, but the process of converting dietary carbs to adipose tissue (DNL) is extremely inefficient.

Dietary fat (on the other hand) is stored rather easily. You don't want to go too low (bad things happen hormonally) but once minimum needs are met, there's no real advantage to excess fat when eating in a surplus.

This is such a gross oversimplification of fat body production and is blatantly untrue. Signalling pathway which promote fat storage in places you don't want come mostly from refined carbs, not dietary fat. This also isn't a very thorough explanation, but buy a nutrition textbook if you want to understand how the body really works based on real science.

My advice would be to balance the carbs, protein, and fat, but eat mostly complex carbs.

amy1612 · July 2012

Yeah, i would disagree on the carbs vs. fat. Most bodybuilders eat more fat and lower carbs.

If youre looking to bulk up with muscle, eating a surplus is good. Check out sites like liftbigeatbig and nerd fitness for advice on how to bulk up correctly. Most would recommend heavy lifting and a diet higher in protein/good fats than carbs

dr3wman · July 2012

All about calories in vs. calories burned. When trying to meake "lean" gains, I take my maintinence calories and add ~350. That being said, I think you estimate of 200g of protein will be very effective for you. But remember carbs and healthy fats and very important as well. Its always helpful to snack on nuts when trying to gain because they are high in calories and the fats promote natural testosterone production. Good luck!

darrensurrey · July 2012

Just lift heavy weights and make sure you're eating enough meat (or other source of protein). I was skinny fat (ie tell people you want to diet and they look at you like you're mad). Took up weight lifting, now look much better. (Photos in profile are 4 months old so ignore them.) Currently cutting.

LesterBlackstone · July 2012

I was wondering how long it would take for the carbophobes to jump in with their nonsense.

From one of the top minds in sports nutrition:

Alan Aragon:

Technically, once protein & fat needs are met, the surplus should be predominantly from carbohydrate. This will help support progressive increases in work output (total tonnage moved, etc), in addition to maxing out the anabolic signals that occur through fuller glycogen stores. A surplus coming from 100% protein would be very inefficient for the objective at hand, and a surplus from 100% fat would stand a greater chance of it getting stored in the adipose (not to mention only minimally contribute to muscle protein synthesis). I don't think you have to draw really hard lines on the exact breakdown of the surplus, and I personally haven't seen any unfavorable effects from an isocaloric combo of the macros comprising the surplus. But speaking hypothetically & highly nit-pickingly once protein & fat needs are met, the surplus should be carbs>protein>fat. For smaller surpluses (200-300 kcal), I've seen good results by splitting the surplus evenly between protein & carbs, with incidental fat rounding out the remainder."

amy1612 · July 2012

I was wondering how long it would take for the carbophobes to jump in with their nonsense.

From one of the top minds in sports nutrition:

Alan Aragon:

Technically, once protein & fat needs are met, the surplus should be predominantly from carbohydrate. This will help support progressive increases in work output (total tonnage moved, etc), in addition to maxing out the anabolic signals that occur through fuller glycogen stores. A surplus coming from 100% protein would be very inefficient for the objective at hand, and a surplus from 100% fat would stand a greater chance of it getting stored in the adipose (not to mention only minimally contribute to muscle protein synthesis). I don't think you have to draw really hard lines on the exact breakdown of the surplus, and I personally haven't seen any unfavorable effects from an isocaloric combo of the macros comprising the surplus. But speaking hypothetically & highly nit-pickingly once protein & fat needs are met, the surplus should be carbs>protein>fat. For smaller surpluses (200-300 kcal), I've seen good results by splitting the surplus evenly between protein & carbs, with incidental fat rounding out the remainder."

Who went carbophobe? Could just as easily call you a 'fatphobe'.

Carbs are necessary , and there are plenty of good sources of carbs. I simply stated that its comomplace to eat more fat and protein than carbs when lifting big and trying to 'bulk up'.

Looking to GAIN

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