leg strength - not squats or lunges

meerkat70
meerkat70 Posts: 4,605 Member
in Fitness and Exercise
could anyone recommend some leg strengthening moves that don't involve squats or lunges. I've tried and persisted with these, but i have enduring knee problems (rooted in hypermobile joints) that mean squats and lunges cause considerable knee pain.

i run, and have quite strong legs but want them to be stronger to support my running. i do lift, but for the last few months have focused on upper body and core because of the pain squatsunami and lunges cause.

i know this post will inevitably attract suggestions i persist with squats and attend to form. i have done this with an experienced litter, who has checked my form and helped me a lot. but not enough that i don't still get a lot of pain. i can do unweighted squat without too much pain, but even there i get twinges.
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Replies

  • meerkat70
    meerkat70 Posts: 4,605 Member
    ps the pain predates running, and the running has reduced it - running isn't the problem. :-)
  • IronSmasher
    IronSmasher Posts: 3,908 Member
    Today I'll be doing sprints. And box jumps, if I can find a box.
  • myofibril
    myofibril Posts: 4,500 Member
    quads: step up (with dumbells / barbell to increase resistance when necessary)
    hamstrings: leg curl
    calves: calf raise

    Really you are looking to do two things: strengthen the supporting structures around the knees to ease reliance on them as well as remedying any muscle imbalances you have which can cause injury when running.
  • nz_deevaa
    nz_deevaa Posts: 12,209 Member
    What about the leg press or deadlifts?
  • Slimmasaurus
    Slimmasaurus Posts: 141 Member
    Have you tried pilates?
    My favourite video site is Blogilates, and Cassey really kicks my butt!
    You can find some of her workouts focused on legs here: http://blogilates.com/legs-thighs
  • DizzyLinds
    DizzyLinds Posts: 856 Member
    Hamstring curl using a stability ball
  • weyyytictacs
    weyyytictacs Posts: 2
    I'm doing leg press at the moment. It works your Glutes and your Quads at the same time.
  • albinogorilla
    albinogorilla Posts: 1,056 Member
    I second leg press, you can really play around with your foot placement to change they way it feels in your joints. I was getting bad pain in my knees and had to stop squats for a year or so, and got by on leg extensions, leg curls, and leg press.

    Another option that worked for me was moving from free squats to smith machine, by putting my feet about a foot in front of me when i got under the bar, it took a lot of the pressure off my knees that i felt when i did free squats.

    Good luck.
  • krisntraining
    krisntraining Posts: 201 Member
    Cycling... I tore my acl at a baseball game and the next week I was told I "could not have torn an acl because I could semi-walk" after an mri I was told by the doc that my quads/hamstrings were so strong it made up for the torn ligament, they were shocked. I was riding about 500 miles a month at the time.
  • IronSmasher
    IronSmasher Posts: 3,908 Member
    Car push
  • Damiilla
    Damiilla Posts: 66
    I second pilates. You can do things like sideline bicycle, leg lifts, bridges and a ton of other exercises that dont stress the knees.
  • DizzyLinds
    DizzyLinds Posts: 856 Member
    Car push

    These are great if i reckon it's what i was doing on the treadmill the other day!
  • meerkat70
    meerkat70 Posts: 4,605 Member
    Thanks for all the suggestions - I'll have a look at hamstring curls, and step ups (I do unweighted calf raises often at home and work, but will try adding some weight at the gym).

    I do use the leg press - but it's the kind where you push your body weight backwards into the seat (rather than pressing your legs away... not sure if that makes sense?). Will that be sufficient?

    I also cycle - but again, I need to be quite careful with this - sometimes it's fine and sometimes it hurts.

    I have similar problems with deadlifts to squats and lunges - but not quite as severe, so may well be worth persisting with.

    I could try the smith machine - I thought there were issues with naturalness of movement with the smith, though?


    Like this, IS? :-) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqJ-RkKrENE

    Ultimately, I'm hoping to build my strength enough that I *will* be able to go back to squats and deadlifts - I just know it's not right for me right now.
  • IronSmasher
    IronSmasher Posts: 3,908 Member
    The hill isn't really steep enough and it's supposed to be for distance.

    I like heavy dumbbell setups but it would depend entirely on your injury whether that's a good idea or a horrendous one.

    If you can do a type of squat without pain, I'd just add 2.5kg every week or two. It could still be a form, morphology or headology issue.

    Seat moving leg presses count as leg press. Foot position determines targeted muscles, lower position targets more quads/extension muscles.

    Leg curls on a ball could counter issues found with the leg curl machine, which seems to be the hardest one to set up right. Plus single leg curls keeping strict form is fairly nails.
  • meerkat70
    meerkat70 Posts: 4,605 Member
    Can I weight a plie squat? Those are relatively painless.
  • 05HeatherLouise05
    05HeatherLouise05 Posts: 178 Member
    Horse Riding!

    I reckon i could break a man in 2 with my thighs (LMao!)

    I think swimming is also good for your legs? not sure though.
  • meerkat70
    meerkat70 Posts: 4,605 Member
    IS, by the way, I can actually identify the point where the pain kicks in (even unweighted). It's on the way down, about 2/3 en route down. I used to think it was as I was pushing back up, but it isn't. Not sure if that helps.
  • IronSmasher
    IronSmasher Posts: 3,908 Member
    I'm still thinking muscle imbalance and you should see if you can get a physio referral.

    It would explain why natural squats hurt but plies are painless, and your knees caving on the way up.

    Did you try banded squats to practice strict knee alignment?
  • ironanimal
    ironanimal Posts: 5,922 Member
    Straight Leg Deadlifts.
  • mfpcopine
    mfpcopine Posts: 3,093 Member
    Pilates? Ballet?
  • victoria4321
    victoria4321 Posts: 1,719 Member
    It would be better to see a physical therapist to help with managing the knee problem before you start adding workouts. It could be harmful to your knees to create muscle imbalances with some of the workouts listed above.

    You can also wait until you lose some more weight to relieve pressure on your knees. I saw that you said running made it better but it was more than likely the weight loss.
  • mfpcopine
    mfpcopine Posts: 3,093 Member
    Can I weight a plie squat? Those are relatively painless.

    I own a weighted vest that I occasionally wear when walking (I'm always terrified of being mistaken for a suicide bomber). Fire Departments train with them. You might be able to wear one while doing a plié squat because it evenly distributes the weight. But I would check with a doctor first.

    You don't ignore knee pain.

    Mir is one brand.
  • CommandaPanda
    CommandaPanda Posts: 451 Member
    Have you looked at Glucosamine/Chondroidin? It's an over-the-counter supplement that I know many people take to support their joints. I always looked at the people I knew who took it and honestly didn't believe that it was something that could help me out and felt like they were just feeling the effects of a placebo. However, I f*cked up my knees over these past 4 years from a handful of different things... mainly the fact that my college is located on a mountain and to get to and from classes we were sometimes required to basically climb up and down these really steep stairs (describing it doesn't even due the pain we went through any justice).

    So BASICALLY, my knees were screwed and doing squats or any other leg exercise was a btch and a half. I started supplementing Glucosamine, 2,000mg/day (2 pills), and after a few weeks all of the discomfort I felt in my knees disappeared. Just something for you to consider if you or your doctors haven't already.

    As for leg exercises that I feel won't strain your knees as much:
    - Deadlifts (definitely a full-body workout)
    - Romanian Deadlifts (YouTube the technique -- really wonderful hamstring/glute exercise, be sure to keep the pressure off of your lower back)
    - Quad Extensions
    - Hamstring Curls

    I train for sprints and the muscles that get challenged the most are definitely the glutes and hamstrings -- for me, anyways. I am really not sure what is best to train for regular running. Let me know how you fare!
  • victoria4321
    victoria4321 Posts: 1,719 Member
    Have you looked at Glucosamine/Chondroidin? It's an over-the-counter supplement that I know many people take to support their joints.

    I second this! My dog was having knee issues and couldn't run up there stairs. He takes this daily and his knees are fine now.


    (Please don't be insulted that I mentioned that I give it to my dog. Dogs take a lot of medicine that people take)
  • ctooch99
    ctooch99 Posts: 459 Member
    Are you able to do wall squats? The are not a real "squat" per say, but are quite effective for building leg strength - you basically put your back against a wall then move to a seated position where your thighs are parallel to the ground - you can also vary the intensity by alternately raising each leg.

    I have "crunchy" knees from years of hockey and wall squats have been great for me.

    Also I have found martial arts kicking exercises to work well as well - alternating front and round kicks and knee kicks are a cool leg workout. Balance postures in Yoga are effective too (like bent Warrior raising to one foot).

    I also agree with the Glucosamine/Chondroidin - it has definitely helped my knee pain.
  • escher83
    escher83 Posts: 29
    Bump. Have knee problems too
  • TheAliCrock
    TheAliCrock Posts: 18 Member
    Are you able to do wall squats? The are not a real "squat" per say, but are quite effective for building leg strength - you basically put your back against a wall then move to a seated position where your thighs are parallel to the ground - you can also vary the intensity by alternately raising each leg.

    I have "crunchy" knees from years of hockey and wall squats have been great for me.
    +1 - they definitely work!
  • McBully4
    McBully4 Posts: 1,270 Member
    I do hamstring curls after my deadlifts, that is awesome
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,954 Member
    Today I'll be doing sprints. And box jumps, if I can find a box.
    THIS. FROG SQUATS too.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
  • meerkat70
    meerkat70 Posts: 4,605 Member
    Thanks everyone, I really appreciate these suggestions. Googling wildly now.

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