Ketogenic Diet
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myers0machine
Posts: 685
A ketogenic diet is a diet high in fat and protein, and virtually no carbohydrate. This will force the body into a state of ketosis whereby ketones are used as a fuel source – rather than glucose.
Ketogenic diets have been used to treat epilepsy and for weight loss. Many body builders also use a ketogenic diet during their ‘cutting’ phase (attempting to burn as much fat as possible while retaining muscle mass). Ketogenic diets have gained some popularity due to the extensive media coverage of low/no carb diets such as Atkins.
Is a Ketogenic Diet Healthy?
Ketogenic diets have been used to treat epilepsy and for weight loss. Many body builders also use a ketogenic diet during their ‘cutting’ phase (attempting to burn as much fat as possible while retaining muscle mass). Ketogenic diets have gained some popularity due to the extensive media coverage of low/no carb diets such as Atkins.
Is a Ketogenic Diet Healthy?
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Replies
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For a short period of time, I would say its healthy. Low-carb diets are always rough for the first couple of days because the body is still trying to use carbs for energy but isnt recieving any. The result is a lack of focus and mental awareness. Once the initial shock is over, your body will begin to regulate normally operating on ketones. I dont think there have been too many studies showing that it is unhealthy, but If your going to do it, I would suggest only for a period of up to 6 months.0
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I am fairly sure that you need to be very disciplined while on this kind of diet. From what I have read about it, if you mess up one day and eat too many carbs, it can take up to a week for you body to get back to the ketosis state. Of course, if you manage that, then I don't think it will do you harm (have not heard of studies saying that at least)0
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My husband does this diet every 6 months or so. He clearly loses fat & gains muscle, evidence in his body fat %. He's very fit anyways but it's amazing the difference in his body & the changes in muscle normally stick with him even after off the diet. It seems to sort of kick start the results he's looking for. He is starting this diet again today, I was going to start it with him but I can't give up my fruits & veggies!0
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A ketogenic diet like you describe IS unhealthy. Your body isn't getting essential nutrients that it needs to function. Not enough doses of calcium, vitamin D, or potassium are just starters. I'm actually on a doctor-supervised ketogenic diet in which she has me take supplements for everything that I can't get through my diet, and it isn't high in fat at all, because that's unhealthy for your gallbladder and liver. You can still be in ketosis while having SOME carbs. I'm allowed to eat up to 25 grams of carbs a day, but they MUST come from fruits and veggies instead of any other source. It's sustainable for a while, and for me, necessary. My body just happens to not process carbs correctly. But it does get the weight off very quickly, and it keeps muscle mass intact, especially if you're working out regularly. It's doable, IF you do it in a way that takes care of all the downfalls of a true "Atkins" diet.0
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I read about some disturbing side effects some epileptic patients have suffered from it. Of course, many were children, and they sometimes had stunted growth due to not getting enough calories. That's not going to be a problem for me, obviously. Other issues were high cholesterol and kidney stones. That's a bit more worrisome.
I'm getting under 20 carbs a day right now, sometimes as few as 10, but I don't plan on staying this low or on going to zero carbs. I plan on gradually working my way up past the number of carbs someone on a ketogenic diet for epilepsy would consume. Even the Inuit ate some carbs, like the grass from caribou stomachs. Plus, they were fish eaters, and I'm a beef eater, so I'm probably in far more danger of high cholesterol than they were on their traditional diet.0 -
It can take some time to adapt to being primarily a fat-burner (up to a few weeks apparently, I adjusted quickly) but once you are there it's great ... No real hunger, no sugar cravings, a more 'even mood' ... Makes more sense to me than needing to refuel every few hours.
When I eat I eat very well but I never feel compelled to snack and when I consume sugar I appreciate it more (e.g. some premium ice cream).
Compare this to my 'always hungry' semi-starvation days on the low-fat fad diet and it's a winner.
Long term? I'll be adding back some selected carbs (legumes, etc) but I'll probably always be on the fringes of ketosis.
Hey, I even had some garlic bread today so this isn't a religion but my body definitely feels better this way.0 -
You don't have to give up veggies, or fruits, either, really. You just have to eat fruits that are lower in carbs, in moderation.
That being said, you do have to be very disciplined... but the results are worth it if you can do that.0 -
A ketogenic diet like you describe IS unhealthy. Your body isn't getting essential nutrients that it needs to function. Not enough doses of calcium, vitamin D, or potassium are just starters. I'm actually on a doctor-supervised ketogenic diet in which she has me take supplements for everything that I can't get through my diet, and it isn't high in fat at all, because that's unhealthy for your gallbladder and liver. You can still be in ketosis while having SOME carbs. I'm allowed to eat up to 25 grams of carbs a day, but they MUST come from fruits and veggies instead of any other source. It's sustainable for a while, and for me, necessary. My body just happens to not process carbs correctly. But it does get the weight off very quickly, and it keeps muscle mass intact, especially if you're working out regularly. It's doable, IF you do it in a way that takes care of all the downfalls of a true "Atkins" diet.
You either have medical issues resulting in fat being bad for you or you need to fire your doctor.
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It can take some time to adapt to being primarily a fat-burner (up to a few weeks apparently, I adjusted quickly) but once you are there it's great ... No real hunger, no sugar cravings, a more 'even mood' ... Makes more sense to me than needing to refuel every few hours.
When I eat I eat very well but I never feel compelled to snack and when I consume sugar I appreciate it more (e.g. some premium ice cream).
Compare this to my 'always hungry' semi-starvation days on the low-fat fad diet and it's a winner.
Long term? I'll be adding back some selected carbs (legumes, etc) but I'll probably always be on the fringes of ketosis.
Hey, I even had some garlic bread today so this isn't a religion but my body definitely feels better this way.
I'm going to start by adding peanuts (potassium!) and onions (vitamin C? I forget, but I like them and miss them). After that, I'll probably stay there for awhile if I feel okay. But I'm glad you said that about it possibly taking a few weeks to adjust, because I do think my brain fog hasn't completely gone away, and I'm on day 12 or 13 or something like that.0 -
A ketogenic diet like you describe IS unhealthy. Your body isn't getting essential nutrients that it needs to function. Not enough doses of calcium, vitamin D, or potassium are just starters. I'm actually on a doctor-supervised ketogenic diet in which she has me take supplements for everything that I can't get through my diet, and it isn't high in fat at all, because that's unhealthy for your gallbladder and liver. You can still be in ketosis while having SOME carbs. I'm allowed to eat up to 25 grams of carbs a day, but they MUST come from fruits and veggies instead of any other source. It's sustainable for a while, and for me, necessary. My body just happens to not process carbs correctly. But it does get the weight off very quickly, and it keeps muscle mass intact, especially if you're working out regularly. It's doable, IF you do it in a way that takes care of all the downfalls of a true "Atkins" diet.
You either have medical issues resulting in fat being bad for you or you need to fire your doctor.
Everyone will have medical issues with the amount of fat in the Atkins diet. That's actually the cause of having to have my gallbladder taken out in an emergency procedure. That's why my diet is now doctor supervised. Also if you don't drink a TON of water to flush out the system, kidney stones can result.0 -
I am fairly sure that you need to be very disciplined while on this kind of diet. From what I have read about it, if you mess up one day and eat too many carbs, it can take up to a week for you body to get back to the ketosis state. Of course, if you manage that, then I don't think it will do you harm (have not heard of studies saying that at least)
I guess if you are the kind of person that pees on strips to determine your 'ketosis level' (which are inherently inaccurate) then you could obsess about the details.
I don't, I just avoid the processed junk, the added sugars and eat real whole nutrient-rich satisfying food.
Maybe I am not strictly 'ketogenic' but I know limiting my carbs to only what I need to fulfill my dietary fibre requirements works for me ... By all accounts less than 50g net carbs will put you into ketosis and I generally hit 30g a day.
Whether I am 'in ketosis' or not matters less than if my belt notch moves
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It can take some time to adapt to being primarily a fat-burner (up to a few weeks apparently, I adjusted quickly) but once you are there it's great ... No real hunger, no sugar cravings, a more 'even mood' ... Makes more sense to me than needing to refuel every few hours.
When I eat I eat very well but I never feel compelled to snack and when I consume sugar I appreciate it more (e.g. some premium ice cream).
Compare this to my 'always hungry' semi-starvation days on the low-fat fad diet and it's a winner.
Long term? I'll be adding back some selected carbs (legumes, etc) but I'll probably always be on the fringes of ketosis.
Hey, I even had some garlic bread today so this isn't a religion but my body definitely feels better this way.
I'm going to start by adding peanuts (potassium!) and onions (vitamin C? I forget, but I like them and miss them). After that, I'll probably stay there for awhile if I feel okay. But I'm glad you said that about it possibly taking a few weeks to adjust, because I do think my brain fog hasn't completely gone away, and I'm on day 12 or 13 or something like that.
Hey look, everyone is different ... I love onions and enjoy them in abundance but I avoid peanuts which are off my menu for a while ... I do grab a handful of raw nuts occasionally for a snack and an energy boost, better than some sugar-laden snack for me.
I truly believe the key to fat loss is discovering your tolerance to carbohydrate and everyone is different due to their genetics and the state of their metabolism.
I have tried to convince my OH to join me but I can see she is addicted to sugar (late night snacks, etc) and breaking the cycle is tricky ...
Good luck, check in with the low carb forum here if you get a chance
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A ketogenic diet like you describe IS unhealthy. Your body isn't getting essential nutrients that it needs to function. Not enough doses of calcium, vitamin D, or potassium are just starters. I'm actually on a doctor-supervised ketogenic diet in which she has me take supplements for everything that I can't get through my diet, and it isn't high in fat at all, because that's unhealthy for your gallbladder and liver. You can still be in ketosis while having SOME carbs. I'm allowed to eat up to 25 grams of carbs a day, but they MUST come from fruits and veggies instead of any other source. It's sustainable for a while, and for me, necessary. My body just happens to not process carbs correctly. But it does get the weight off very quickly, and it keeps muscle mass intact, especially if you're working out regularly. It's doable, IF you do it in a way that takes care of all the downfalls of a true "Atkins" diet.
You either have medical issues resulting in fat being bad for you or you need to fire your doctor.
Everyone will have medical issues with the amount of fat in the Atkins diet. That's actually the cause of having to have my gallbladder taken out in an emergency procedure. That's why my diet is now doctor supervised. Also if you don't drink a TON of water to flush out the system, kidney stones can result.
So you did atkins and it harmed you?
I dont understand.
Or you had a preexisting medical issue that makes fat bad for you?0 -
A ketogenic diet like you describe IS unhealthy. Your body isn't getting essential nutrients that it needs to function. Not enough doses of calcium, vitamin D, or potassium are just starters. I'm actually on a doctor-supervised ketogenic diet in which she has me take supplements for everything that I can't get through my diet, and it isn't high in fat at all, because that's unhealthy for your gallbladder and liver. You can still be in ketosis while having SOME carbs. I'm allowed to eat up to 25 grams of carbs a day, but they MUST come from fruits and veggies instead of any other source. It's sustainable for a while, and for me, necessary. My body just happens to not process carbs correctly. But it does get the weight off very quickly, and it keeps muscle mass intact, especially if you're working out regularly. It's doable, IF you do it in a way that takes care of all the downfalls of a true "Atkins" diet.
You are correct lady. Vitamin supplements are essential.0 -
It can take some time to adapt to being primarily a fat-burner (up to a few weeks apparently, I adjusted quickly) but once you are there it's great ... No real hunger, no sugar cravings, a more 'even mood' ... Makes more sense to me than needing to refuel every few hours.
When I eat I eat very well but I never feel compelled to snack and when I consume sugar I appreciate it more (e.g. some premium ice cream).
Compare this to my 'always hungry' semi-starvation days on the low-fat fad diet and it's a winner.
Long term? I'll be adding back some selected carbs (legumes, etc) but I'll probably always be on the fringes of ketosis.
Hey, I even had some garlic bread today so this isn't a religion but my body definitely feels better this way.
I'm going to start by adding peanuts (potassium!) and onions (vitamin C? I forget, but I like them and miss them). After that, I'll probably stay there for awhile if I feel okay. But I'm glad you said that about it possibly taking a few weeks to adjust, because I do think my brain fog hasn't completely gone away, and I'm on day 12 or 13 or something like that.
Hey look, everyone is different ... I love onions and enjoy them in abundance but I avoid peanuts which are off my menu for a while ... I do grab a handful of raw nuts occasionally for a snack and an energy boost, better than some sugar-laden snack for me.
I truly believe the key to fat loss is discovering your tolerance to carbohydrate and everyone is different due to their genetics and the state of their metabolism.
I have tried to convince my OH to join me but I can see she is addicted to sugar (late night snacks, etc) and breaking the cycle is tricky ...
Good luck, check in with the low carb forum here if you get a chance
Thanks! Going to have to find and join that forum. I was thinking not of eating peanuts every day, but a serving two or three times a week, but if they give me cravings for other stuff, or if the onions do, I'll immediately quit. I hate cravings, and I'm enjoying not having any major ones too much to give it up!0 -
A ketogenic diet like you describe IS unhealthy. Your body isn't getting essential nutrients that it needs to function. Not enough doses of calcium, vitamin D, or potassium are just starters. I'm actually on a doctor-supervised ketogenic diet in which she has me take supplements for everything that I can't get through my diet, and it isn't high in fat at all, because that's unhealthy for your gallbladder and liver. You can still be in ketosis while having SOME carbs. I'm allowed to eat up to 25 grams of carbs a day, but they MUST come from fruits and veggies instead of any other source. It's sustainable for a while, and for me, necessary. My body just happens to not process carbs correctly. But it does get the weight off very quickly, and it keeps muscle mass intact, especially if you're working out regularly. It's doable, IF you do it in a way that takes care of all the downfalls of a true "Atkins" diet.
You either have medical issues resulting in fat being bad for you or you need to fire your doctor.
Everyone will have medical issues with the amount of fat in the Atkins diet. That's actually the cause of having to have my gallbladder taken out in an emergency procedure. That's why my diet is now doctor supervised. Also if you don't drink a TON of water to flush out the system, kidney stones can result.
So you did atkins and it harmed you?
I dont understand.
Or you had a preexisting medical issue that makes fat bad for you?
I don't know of anyone who large amounts of unhealthy fat is GOOD for, but yes, based upon a medical condition that doesn't allow my body to process carbs correctly, I did Atkins looking to drop carbs and pounds, and it caused a lot of nutrient deficiencies and it caused gallstones that became inflamed. I have had to learn A LOT about ketogenic diets in the last 3 years, and my doctor has been great in trying to help me get past the harm that came of the original Atkins diet, because it doesn't take into account that a lot of bad can come with the good. The diet that I'm on now basically tweaked the Atkins diet so that it is a healthier diet that is low in bad fats (I still need "good" fats in small amounts) and supplements what I can't get from meat with vitamins. It's not ideal, but it's working for me, and I need to help my body function to its best capabilities any way I can! 0 -
I don't know of anyone who large amounts of unhealthy fat is GOOD for, but yes, based upon a medical condition that doesn't allow my body to process carbs correctly, I did Atkins looking to drop carbs and pounds, and it caused a lot of nutrient deficiencies and it caused gallstones that became inflamed. I have had to learn A LOT about ketogenic diets in the last 3 years, and my doctor has been great in trying to help me get past the harm that came of the original Atkins diet, because it doesn't take into account that a lot of bad can come with the good. The diet that I'm on now basically tweaked the Atkins diet so that it is a healthier diet that is low in bad fats (I still need "good" fats in small amounts) and supplements what I can't get from meat with vitamins. It's not ideal, but it's working for me, and I need to help my body function to its best capabilities any way I can!
I did a diff version of this diet as well that focused on lean meats and reduced fats (no cheese or nuts or fat meats) as well. I had to take vitamin supplements for potassium, magnesium, calcium and a multivitamin.0 -
but If your going to do it, I would suggest only for a period of up to 6 months.
Why do you say 6 months? Is it just your feeling or is there some science behind your number?0 -
I don't know of anyone who large amounts of unhealthy fat is GOOD for, but yes, based upon a medical condition that doesn't allow my body to process carbs correctly, I did Atkins looking to drop carbs and pounds, and it caused a lot of nutrient deficiencies and it caused gallstones that became inflamed. I have had to learn A LOT about ketogenic diets in the last 3 years, and my doctor has been great in trying to help me get past the harm that came of the original Atkins diet, because it doesn't take into account that a lot of bad can come with the good. The diet that I'm on now basically tweaked the Atkins diet so that it is a healthier diet that is low in bad fats (I still need "good" fats in small amounts) and supplements what I can't get from meat with vitamins. It's not ideal, but it's working for me, and I need to help my body function to its best capabilities any way I can!
I did a diff version of this diet as well that focused on lean meats and reduced fats (no cheese or nuts or fat meats) as well. I had to take vitamin supplements for potassium, magnesium, calcium and a multivitamin.
Absolutely! I take the same supplements...I can have cheese, but only small amounts and only low-fat cheeses. I also have to cut the fat off of any meats that I eat, and they suggest that I stay with lean protein to keep it easier for myself. Sounds like very similar versions!0 -
I don't know of anyone who large amounts of unhealthy fat is GOOD for, but yes, based upon a medical condition that doesn't allow my body to process carbs correctly, I did Atkins looking to drop carbs and pounds, and it caused a lot of nutrient deficiencies and it caused gallstones that became inflamed. I
The University of Maryland Medical Center says that gallstones take a long time to form. How long were you on Atkins before you had issues? Do you think that maybe that you aforementioned metabolic problems could have had anything to do with it?
It is true that a gallstone attack often follows a fat rich meal, that makes sense, that is when the gallbladder is activated, but that did not cause the underlying condition. What you suggest is like a man with arteriosclerosis blaming the bus he was chasing for his heart attack. Running caused the condition to present, but it was not the source of the condition that caused the heart attack.
On average, symptoms take about 8 years to develop." [/i
I]
Read more: http://www.umm.edu/patiented/articles/what_symptoms_of_gallstones_gallbladder_disease_000010_2.htm#ixzz208VFUTkM0
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