Knee Advice...please

Witchmoo · July 2012

For some months now my left knee makes a noise a bit like bubble wrap being popped when it bends...this has all been without pain. Last week I finally decided to do something about my health as after two shoulder operations this year felt able to commit to some exercise.

I started the 30 day shred last week on alternate days (yes I know it's supposed to be daily but it's a start and I do still have to modify because of the shoulder surgeries).....when I did it on Tuesday this week I noticed some pain the 'noisy' knee but not too bad and it had eased off by morning. I did the DVD again last night and this time I couldn't even do the left side lunges for the pain and this morning when I woke it's still very painful so much so I am limping!

Any ideas....have I just overdone it maybe, could it be something more serious? I'm so annoyed as I've only just started getting active and don't want to have to stop!

I have to make an appointment for the GP for something else within the next month and will of course mention it but wondered if any of you might have some bright ideas on what I can do to help it so I can keep up with the exercise and activity and not lose momentum now that I've actually found some.... :noway:

Tamara6984 · July 2012

I've had exactly this and 30 day shred made it much worse. I'm thinking of taking up swimming again as it's much gentler on the joints. Then I'll try the shred again and see how it goes. The other knee has started the popping noise when I walk upstairs, so I think this one's on its way out, too!

I'm also going to mention it to my GP on my next visit.

Good luck and let us know how you get on

Witchmoo · July 2012

It's so frustrating, I'm not brave enough to try swimming yet and in all honesty I only want to do things that won't cost me any money. Admittedly I leave by the sea but there's no way I'm swimming in English Channel!!

SRH7 · July 2012

Could be many different things and can only speak from experience... but it's worth considering whether your kneecap is tracking correctly.

I've had chronic knee problems since I was a child (pain, popping feeling, crunching and grinding) and only recently finally got a diagnosis. My feet fall inwards when I walk (overpronation), which was messing up the alignment of my legs. As such, the kneecap was not moving up and down correctly and with everything being slightly out of place the cartilage has been damaged.

I've been to a physio and podiatrist and have got insoles and strict instructions on what shoes to wear (I have to wear heels and absolutely no flats, which made me laugh after years of wearing flats thinking they would help my knees). I've also had to work hard on strengthening the muscles around my knees - so lots and lots and lots of squats. I paid privately for the treatment but, all in including the insoles, it has cost around £150 - and it's the best money I've ever spent.

I've gone from being crippled when just walking and struggling to get out of bed in the morning to actually starting running - really unbelievable considering I had to give up sport while at school as my knees were so swollen.

Before I got the diagnosis I tried 30 Day Shred and ended up barely able to walk the next day. Google 'runner's knee' and make sure you wear good supportive shoes when doing the Shred. If in any doubt, go easy on the squats. I still do 30DS but don't do the sideways squats/lunges as they kill my knees.

I also put icepacks on my knees after any exercise, irrespective of whether they hurt or not. It definitely helps prevent the popping and crunching.

You mention seeing the GP, so I'm assuming you live in the UK? If so, podiatry is no longer available on the NHS for general complaints (most areas reserve it for diabetics and people with serious ulceration etc). But mine cost around £30 a session privately (I live in Lancashire) and she adapted some orthotic insoles I bought in Boots at no extra cost (Orthaheel - might be worth giving them a go initially).

Hope you get it sorted.

swisspea · July 2012

Hi, I had a noisy knee too! I'm now lying on my butt unable to work out for the past month and for the next 10 weeks as I've torn my MCL and have a very "loose" ACL according to the doctor that looked at my MRI results. I'm still waiting until August 6th for my first physio appointment. I doubt that the "noisyness" of my knee had much to do with it's resulting injury- but I'm no expert.

Knees (and our whole body) has a cycle of "wear and repair" and sometimes this balance can get disturbed. It is vitally important that this balance stays in tact all over our bodies, but especially for our knees.

I had a very similar experience as you (twice, but it was my ankle the first time, so we don't have to go into that). I've always had a noisy knee, and I was working out a lot for the first time in a while (since the ankle injury). I would do 40 minutes on the elliptical and up to 60 minutes of yoga about 4 times per week, on top of walking long distances on hilly terrain everyday. My noisy knee started getting sore, I ignored it and kept working out, then I went on a long weekend trip and was walking for about 14 hours a day on uneven (and old) cobblestones for 3 days in a row- when I got home the next day, after simply running to catch a train my knee "popped" and now I'm dealing with the outcome of not resting when I should have. I went to the doctor after dealing with limping and pain for a week, she told me to come back in 2 weeks if it wasn't better. I instead waited for a month out of pride, then I had to wait 3 days for an MRI, then 3 weeks for a follow-up appointment and now 2 weeks for my first physiotherapy session- these things can definitely spiral out of control. In good news, the specialist wrote me a prescription for an amazing knee brace that I can wear and do light exercise in- it's amazing! Also, my MRI showed that my knee is very healthy aside from the injury and should fully recover from this injury- which is always interesting.

I suggest to totally rest for 7 days, if it's not NOTICEABLY and clearly better, than go straight to a doctor and get a referral for an MRI and specialist appointment.

All the best!

Ray50296 · July 2012

I also have left knee pain. I fell on mine while skating and injured it badly, but my hard headed teenage self...I walked it off. Or so I though. 11 years later I kept falling because it would give out from under me, or it would lock up. I Had to go see an Ortho. He had to do exploratory surgery on it and found a torn medial meniscus. Or basically I had busted up the cartilage in it. He told me it would not have been bad if a had come to see him 11 years earlier, but I had set up arthritis not only in it, but also in the opposite hip...from limping a bit all those years. And I could look forward to a knee replacement around age 40. I'm 27 now and wish I had gotten it checked out much sooner.:grumble:

On a lighter note, try an ice pack. 20 minutes on and 20 minutes off. Repeat this a couple of times. NO more than 20 minutes on the knee though, because it can damage tissues if you leave it much longer. you may also try a topical analgesic for instance Bengay or Active On, or even mineral ice. That might give you some relief. I would go easy on it for a few days, and maybe even try a knee brace or ace bandage...for support. But Please don't let this go on for a long time before you get it seen about if it persists after some home remedies. Hope this might help.

Good luck with this and your shoulder!:happy:

Ray50296 · July 2012

Hi, I had a noisy knee too! I'm now lying on my butt unable to work out for the past month and for the next 10 weeks as I've torn my MCL and have a very "loose" ACL according to the doctor that looked at my MRI results. I'm still waiting until August 6th for my first physio appointment. I doubt that the "noisyness" of my knee had much to do with it's resulting injury- but I'm no expert.

Knees (and our whole body) has a cycle of "wear and repair" and sometimes this balance can get disturbed. It is vitally important that this balance stays in tact all over our bodies, but especially for our knees.

I had a very similar experience as you (twice, but it was my ankle the first time, so we don't have to go into that). I've always had a noisy knee, and I was working out a lot for the first time in a while (since the ankle injury). I would do 40 minutes on the elliptical and up to 60 minutes of yoga about 4 times per week, on top of walking long distances on hilly terrain everyday. My noisy knee started getting sore, I ignored it and kept working out, then I went on a long weekend trip and was walking for about 14 hours a day on uneven (and old) cobblestones for 3 days in a row- when I got home the next day, after simply running to catch a train my knee "popped" and now I'm dealing with the outcome of not resting when I should have. I went to the doctor after dealing with limping and pain for a week, she told me to come back in 2 weeks if it wasn't better. I instead waited for a month out of pride, then I had to wait 3 days for an MRI, then 3 weeks for a follow-up appointment and now 2 weeks for my first physiotherapy session- these things can definitely spiral out of control. In good news, the specialist wrote me a prescription for an amazing knee brace that I can wear and do light exercise in- it's amazing! Also, my MRI showed that my knee is very healthy aside from the injury and should fully recover from this injury- which is always interesting.

I suggest to totally rest for 7 days, if it's not NOTICEABLY and clearly better, than go straight to a doctor and get a referral for an MRI and specialist appointment.

All the best!

Yes, Very good advice!!

Elleinnz · July 2012

I have heard quite a bit about 30DS and the strain it puts on knees, so I suggest you take it easy....

I have had dodgy knees for a long time, but normally managed with a bit of voltaren.... just before xmas I tore the meniscus playing tennis - had surgery to trim the meniscus, but my surgeon diagnosed grade 4 osteoarthritis.....

5 months later I still have issues and a lot of pain, so I am scheduled in for a total knee replacement early August....

I keep on thinking back and wondering if I had not pushed so hard late last year would I have been able to manage for another few years before I needed my knee replacement.

Through this whole 8 months the guy that helped me most - and was really the most sensible in breaking it down for me - and helped me understand the boundaries with my knee has been my physiotherapist - money well spent!!

jess393 · July 2012

I've had noisy knees for years and years, never with a lot of pain. However, in the last couple years I gained a lot of weight and pain started hitting. Last year, I bent down one day, and my knee locked up and I thought I was gonna die, lol... I was shopping when it happened, in the middle of the store, couldn't stand up, couldn't kneel on the ground, had to roll over and lay there. SO horrified! So I went to the dr, and he said I have a patellar tendon disorder. It's VERY common in women, and when my knee locked up, it was because the kneecap is supposed to slide up and down in the groove on the femur and mine is actually popping out to the side, and when that happens, the tendons are wrapping around the patella. gross! I had to see a physical therapist for a bit, and he gave me exercises and routines to strengthen muscles in my lower back and hips that would help pull the kneecap properly. It got a LOT better after that! My knees are still crunchy sounding, but they haven't locked up since last summer, although I've lost 40lbs since then, so that could help a little

Everyone is different, but like I said, it's apparently super common, and it sounds like a lot of people just don't know about it. May be something to ask your dr about!

Witchmoo · July 2012

Thanks guys! I will have to get some ice packs for the freezer...being british I don't actually have ice in my freezer....I have frozen peas though! Bags open....may not work.....I'll have peas everywhere!

Taking it easy it is! I can go for a walk along the sea front at least....it's all flat and I won't be going at it hamer and tong!

I do wonder about the heels thing though.....I always wear flats....maybe I should break out the heels.....alas I twisted my ankle badly 12 weeks ago and although it's much better I don't feel secure enough to be on heels with it....annoyingly the ankle is the opposite one to the dodgy knee....add in the shoulders and perhaps I should just be taken the knackers yard now!

Ray50296 · July 2012

I've had noisy knees for years and years, never with a lot of pain. However, in the last couple years I gained a lot of weight and pain started hitting. Last year, I bent down one day, and my knee locked up and I thought I was gonna die, lol... I was shopping when it happened, in the middle of the store, couldn't stand up, couldn't kneel on the ground, had to roll over and lay there. SO horrified! So I went to the dr, and he said I have a patellar tendon disorder. It's VERY common in women, and when my knee locked up, it was because the kneecap is supposed to slide up and down in the groove on the femur and mine is actually popping out to the side, and when that happens, the tendons are wrapping around the patella. gross! I had to see a physical therapist for a bit, and he gave me exercises and routines to strengthen muscles in my lower back and hips that would help pull the kneecap properly. It got a LOT better after that! My knees are still crunchy sounding, but they haven't locked up since last summer, although I've lost 40lbs since then, so that could help a little
Everyone is different, but like I said, it's apparently super common, and it sounds like a lot of people just don't know about it. May be something to ask your dr about!

Thank you for that information! My knee still gives me fits some times and Locks Up...Been wondering if I need to see the doctor again about it! Thank you again :happy:

drdebbiejo · July 2012

I have fairly significant patello-femoral syndrome (similar to many posts above) that would really flare post-call, downhill skiing, after running etc. Pilates and balance ball work did wonders for my knees as well as the inflammatory arthritis in my back, and I also limited or cut out the activities that exacerbated the symptoms as there are lots of great, less joint-stressing activities. I now do Pilates at least 3 days a week, 20-30 minutes a shot and since starting this, haven't needed to go back to physio. (Does pretty good things for the abs too - a nice perk.)

Witchmoo · July 2012

I was thinking of getting back into my yoga....never tried pilates.....I worry some of the yoga poses may be too much for the knee...and some I know are still too much for my recovering shoulders......lord I'm falling apart!

SRH7 · July 2012

Thanks guys! I will have to get some ice packs for the freezer...being british I don't actually have ice in my freezer....I have frozen peas though! Bags open....may not work.....I'll have peas everywhere!

Taking it easy it is! I can go for a walk along the sea front at least....it's all flat and I won't be going at it hamer and tong!

I do wonder about the heels thing though.....I always wear flats....maybe I should break out the heels.....alas I twisted my ankle badly 12 weeks ago and although it's much better I don't feel secure enough to be on heels with it....annoyingly the ankle is the opposite one to the dodgy knee....add in the shoulders and perhaps I should just be taken the knackers yard now!

I think with the heels it's different for everyone - my podiatrist wears higher heels than she has recommended for me as her feet and alignment is different. The trick is to make sure the heel is sturdy (no stilettoes, I'm afraid!) and that the shoe fits well (so with a strap across the front). I now live in knee-high boots with a 2in-3in chunky heel (easy in this weather for work) and shoes from Fly London (a bit 'teenage' for me but some of them have a curved sole and chunky wedges, which really give my knees a break).

Also, if you are able to take it, ibuprofen is good for getting inflammation down for now.

BinaryPulsar · July 2012

I have patellofemoral syndrome also, and was also born with feet turned inward (it was corrected with casts and shoes), and I was injured in some bad car accidents (also hit by a car while I was riding my bike as part of my knee treatment), I'm also a dancer.

There is the usual Rest, Ice, Compression Elevation (RICE)

Strengthening the inner quadriceps muscles, and massaging the IT band (on the outer part of the thigh). This could help to re-balance the knee cap. You can see if this is an issue if when you straighten your knee, you see the knee cap is to the outer side of the knee. Seeing a physiotherapist would help.

Biking is great for strengthening the correct muscles and also a cardio that does not hurt the knee.

I can't do extended, high impact cardio, without breaks. I have to make other exercise choices.

Oh, and also a lot of knee problems originate from the foot, so have your feet checked.

moonowl23 · July 2012

I had the same problem and went to my sport doctor (well, my knee clicked every time I went up/down stairs).
I had an MRI and was told the padding in my knee was swollen and needed to be removed, this was done via keyhole surgery and then had physio etc to build it back up.
It doesn't click anymore and I have no pain, but my operation was two part: one was removing the padding and second was putting my knee cap back in the right place (was in the wrong place since I was born), so I have to work extra hard to build back the muscles and get them to work like a normal person and not how I have had it my whole life...

That was my experience... Nothing more to add really... Oh, acupuncture worked for me for getting rid of the pain too...

swisspea · July 2012

New yoga poses should only be undertaken under the supervision of an instructor, especially when you already have knee pain. Refer to my original post for an example

I was thinking of getting back into my yoga....never tried pilates.....I worry some of the yoga poses may be too much for the knee...and some I know are still too much for my recovering shoulders......lord I'm falling apart!

julia6567 · July 2012

For some months now my left knee makes a noise a bit like bubble wrap being popped when it bends...this has all been without pain. Last week I finally decided to do something about my health as after two shoulder operations this year felt able to commit to some exercise.

I started the 30 day shred last week on alternate days (yes I know it's supposed to be daily but it's a start and I do still have to modify because of the shoulder surgeries).....when I did it on Tuesday this week I noticed some pain the 'noisy' knee but not too bad and it had eased off by morning. I did the DVD again last night and this time I couldn't even do the left side lunges for the pain and this morning when I woke it's still very painful so much so I am limping!

Any ideas....have I just overdone it maybe, could it be something more serious? I'm so annoyed as I've only just started getting active and don't want to have to stop!

I have to make an appointment for the GP for something else within the next month and will of course mention it but wondered if any of you might have some bright ideas on what I can do to help it so I can keep up with the exercise and activity and not lose momentum now that I've actually found some.... :noway:

I have arthritis in my knees which started off as you mentioned when popping then discomfort and finally in surgery. I do the bulk of my exercise now in the pool either swimming or aquafit which helps enormously. You can try taking anti-inflamatory or pan killers before exercise but that is not going to help in the long run if you have damaged the joint.

Best to get it checked out by and ortho surgeon just to be on the safe side.

Witchmoo · July 2012

I take ibuprofen twice a day at the moment anyway for the shoulder surgery recovery (2nd op was only 4 weeks ago), so hopefully that will help the knee too.

I have to say it's eased off since I've been at work.....the limps gone but I know if tried to do a sideway lunge I'd collapse in a heap!

Thank you so much for all your guidance, lots to think about.....biking may well be plan I don't mind forking out for a bike as at least it's free thereafter!

kikilorain · July 2012

I've experienced similar symptoms with my knees... After doing some research, I've recently started adding some strength training exercises for my hip muscles several times a week. The hip muscles help stabilize the knee and it appears that people who suffer from runner's knee often benefit from this kind of strengthening. I'm not convinced that 30DS is "bad" for the knees... I think I probably just have a muscle imbalance.... but I'm no expert.... just throwing it out there.

Amy911Gray · July 2012

My right knee was noisy then it started locking. Had it scoped. Noticed while I was losing weight that it was pretty strong, but now the left one after all the years of favoring the right one might need some attention. The upside of getting the knee scoped was the workout of my arms, back and shoulders using crutches for a month. I should have started this healthy living right after that and I wouldn't be complaining about upper body strength now.

I'm learning to see the silver lining in all of this...LOL

Laddiegirl · July 2012

I also have a left knee issue. I have a 50% tear in my patella tendon on my left knee (the tendon that keeps your kneecap in place) and due to a ton of run around with worker's comp (it happened at work) I didn't get to an ortho till almost 2 months later. The Ortho felt urgery was considered a step back so I've had a ton of physical therapy and have exercises to strengthen the muscles around my left knee. Its been a year and due to daily pain and swelling I've been told strictly to avoid squats, lunges, running and stairs (I have to take them one at a time now, I think my grandma does them faster than I, lol!). I also have really loud popping in my knee and some instability (my kneecap slides further and more sideways than it is supposed to due to the torn tendon) so that I have a tendancy to fall/trip easily.

I would avoid all exercises that stress your knee till you can see your doctor and get an idea of what might be the issue so that it doesn't get made worse. I would take an anti-inflammatory, I personally think Aleve (Naproxin Sodium is the generic name) is MAGIC and ice and elevate with any swelling or pain till you can see your Dr. An injured knee sucks and you don't want to make it worse. I do a lot of power walking as my exercise and swimming when I can visit my sister (her apt. complex has a pool) since it is great exercise for a bad knee.

persilcolours · July 2012

bump

Witchmoo · July 2012

I've experienced similar symptoms with my knees... After doing some research, I've recently started adding some strength training exercises for my hip muscles several times a week. The hip muscles help stabilize the knee and it appears that people who suffer from runner's knee often benefit from this kind of strengthening. I'm not convinced that 30DS is "bad" for the knees... I think I probably just have a muscle imbalance.... but I'm no expert.... just throwing it out there.

Erm....as I'm new to all this exercise malarky can you give me some hints on strength training exercises for the hips...ideally somehting where I don't have to go to a gym *shudder*

Witchmoo · July 2012

Appointment booked with GP for 2nd August!

Jebbster007 · July 2012

After speaking with an orthopedic surgeon, he told me that because your knees are supporting roughly 75% of your body, that every pound you are overweight, is roughly the equivalent of 4 pounds of "pressure" on your knee. So do the math. Lose 10 lbs is about 40 lbs less pressure on your knee. Lose 100 lbs, 400 lbs less pressure. Single largest factor in knee pain "generally" speaking, is being overweight. Just food for thought.

correll26 · July 2012

I've worked through hip and knee issues for years. Mike Robertson has some very good info on hip strength and mobility -- I recommend that you start with his site: http://robertsontrainingsystems.com/blog/knee-strengthening-exercises/ I have his "bulletproof knees" product which is very in depth on knee anatomy, causes of issues and exercises to get you from bad to ok to great.

I really want to avoid an eventual knee replacement so I try and do everything that I can to improve it daily!

Swissmiss · July 2012

I've had noisy knees for years and years, never with a lot of pain. However, in the last couple years I gained a lot of weight and pain started hitting. Last year, I bent down one day, and my knee locked up and I thought I was gonna die, lol... I was shopping when it happened, in the middle of the store, couldn't stand up, couldn't kneel on the ground, had to roll over and lay there. SO horrified! So I went to the dr, and he said I have a patellar tendon disorder. It's VERY common in women, and when my knee locked up, it was because the kneecap is supposed to slide up and down in the groove on the femur and mine is actually popping out to the side, and when that happens, the tendons are wrapping around the patella. gross! I had to see a physical therapist for a bit, and he gave me exercises and routines to strengthen muscles in my lower back and hips that would help pull the kneecap properly. It got a LOT better after that! My knees are still crunchy sounding, but they haven't locked up since last summer, although I've lost 40lbs since then, so that could help a little
Everyone is different, but like I said, it's apparently super common, and it sounds like a lot of people just don't know about it. May be something to ask your dr about!

Is the patellar tendon the one right below the knee cap? If so, then I have this also. My doctor has me doing exercising for it. This actually started back in 1989. Another thing I have found to help is to season my food with turmeric.

stewartcarden · July 2012

Iv read that even in full health , as in having a " perfect" knee, that it takes longer for the joints to adjust than it does the muscles. So even if your muscles are up to the challenge, the joints arent. And that you have to slowly ( 10% percentage of effort weekly or more) build your joints up to it.
Came from a running magazine if youre interested

jeyko · July 2012

My knees grind since I've had kids ( and haven't totally lost all that baby weight-my baby is 11), I bought a mini trampoline and I do all the cardio portions of my DVDs on it, it's made a difference. I also have given up on lunges for now, those were doing my knees in.
Rest is best until you're feeling better for sure. With joint pain, working through the pain is not always best!

swisspea · July 2012

Super! Take it easy and go on light walks/swim until then.

Appointment booked with GP for 2nd August!

Knee Advice...please

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