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Do you think obese/overweight people should pay more for health insurance?
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No, slippery slope.1
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@fatblatta obviously in a true free market, people who make risky decisions would pay more for health care, because they would bear the financial consequences directly. You wouldn't need to "penalize" them.
This is the root cause of the issue - we have nothing resembling a free market since 1963 when the US government catered to employer based insurance. Collusion between government, the insurance industry, and established corporations = disaster for the populace.
@fatblatta there are quite a few flavors of libertarians here.3 -
onlytruemanhere83 wrote: »Probably not. It would be effectively discriminating a mental health issue in my opinion
How is a different price discrimination? Especially when the rules are clear up front and people choose to put themselves in the high risk high price category?
If you want to talk about discriminating against people with mental health issues, there are hundreds of thousands of Americans living like dogs, sleeping on sidewalks, eating from garbage cans. Many of them are schizophrenic or have other debilitating mental health issues.4 -
NorthCascades wrote: »onlytruemanhere83 wrote: »Probably not. It would be effectively discriminating a mental health issue in my opinion
How is a different price discrimination? Especially when the rules are clear up front and people choose to put themselves in the high risk high price category?
If you want to talk about discriminating against people with mental health issues, there are hundreds of thousands of Americans living like dogs, sleeping on sidewalks, eating from garbage cans. Many of them are schizophrenic or have other debilitating mental health issues.
There was a push in the 1980s to not violate their civil rights by institutionalizing them against their will, which had a direct effect on many mentally ill people becoming homeless. They can't manage their own affairs and refuse treatment/medication, which makes it difficult for them to maintain housing, but we can't forcibly put them in institutions.
It's a very difficult situation, but I think quite different from the obesity problem in the United States.4 -
I agree that homelessness is a difficult, complex, and tragic situation. I also agree that it's very different from obesity. The reason I posted about it here is as a reality check to those claiming unfair discrimination on mental health grounds against the obese.2
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NorthCascades wrote: »I agree that homelessness is a difficult, complex, and tragic situation. I also agree that it's very different from obesity. The reason I posted about it here is as a reality check to those claiming unfair discrimination on mental health grounds against the obese.
Oh no doubt there are people who have mental illness that contributes to their obesity, but I would suggest that is the minority of cases considering the prevalence of obesity.2 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »
I responded to a comment regarding coveting what my neighbor has because I don't want to shoulder the cost of everyone who thinks they're entitled to handouts. The point was not the actual location of the person who expects the handout, but in which direction the coveting is happening.
You're focusing on the wrong part of that statement. It's either because you really don't understand it, or you're only interested in starting a fight. Either way it's pretty lame.
Since when does not being charged more for health insurance because you're obese count as a "handout" or "entitlement?"1 -
heiliskrimsli wrote: »
I responded to a comment regarding coveting what my neighbor has because I don't want to shoulder the cost of everyone who thinks they're entitled to handouts. The point was not the actual location of the person who expects the handout, but in which direction the coveting is happening.
You're focusing on the wrong part of that statement. It's either because you really don't understand it, or you're only interested in starting a fight. Either way it's pretty lame.
Since when does not being charged more for health insurance because you're obese count as a "handout" or "entitlement?"
One could argue the obese person has a condition that causes extra medical costs and that person can in most cases control the issue. If there is no penalty on the insurance for this situation, others are picking up the cost. Some could consider this a handout or entitlement.4 -
I am a vegan. healthy weight, and I exercise regularly. In fact at 56 I can hold an 8 minute mile in a half marathon. I do not eat processed food or refined sugar. Still I suffer from hypertension and high cholesterol. It is tempting to draw conclusions by simply observing others and their behavior. There was a time before ACA when health insurance companies refused to underwrite a policy for my family because both my husband and I am are private pilots and motorcycle enthusiasts. I will not live a life bereft of passion simply to bend to the rules and whims of Big Business ( and I lived many years without insurance because of these beliefs). As long as the human body is viewed by the insurance, food, and pharmaceutical industries as a profit center, we will be 'guided' to believe assumptions that are categorically opposed to our best interests. #allroadsleadtoasinglepayer4
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Packerjohn wrote: »heiliskrimsli wrote: »
I responded to a comment regarding coveting what my neighbor has because I don't want to shoulder the cost of everyone who thinks they're entitled to handouts. The point was not the actual location of the person who expects the handout, but in which direction the coveting is happening.
You're focusing on the wrong part of that statement. It's either because you really don't understand it, or you're only interested in starting a fight. Either way it's pretty lame.
Since when does not being charged more for health insurance because you're obese count as a "handout" or "entitlement?"
One could argue the obese person has a condition that causes extra medical costs and that person can in most cases control the issue. If there is no penalty on the insurance for this situation, others are picking up the cost. Some could consider this a handout or entitlement.
I'm sure you'll be expecting your handout, er I mean insurance payout if you develop skin cancer.1 -
I think it all sums up to the person, if the obese person is trying their best to shed the weight then no if the person does not want to change then yes, its so easy these days to put on weight, medical issues such as physical and mentally, and its so easy to get into bad routines which then pile on the weight, relationships, breakups etc etc I don't think all obese should have to pay more especially the ones that are trying their hardest to lose it, its easier to quit smoking then it is to go from 300lbs+ to a healthy weight, plus these days everyones perspective of obese is different and sometimes over the top, I have a cousin is looks healthy and leads a healthy lifestyle, she was 9st before she had her baby, she only put on a stone and a half whilst and a little bit after being pregnant and she was told she was obese... before baby 126lbs after baby 150lbs how is 150lbs obese?? I think there needs to be more support available for people struggling with their weight overweight and underweight, my local doctors does not have that support, my doctor actually told me that and that the only thing they could offer is that I could come in and use their scales to weigh myself if I like, no support problem etc, sometimes its not laziness that causes obese, alot can be down to mental health issues such as depression where you physically and mentally cannot leave your bed/couch, everything weighs down on you trust me been there done that and with money issues the last thing I would want is to feel punished for being obese even if I am trying my hardest to shed this weight, believe me it can take weeks/months to shed even 1 stone (14lbs) and when your 145lbs give or take overweight its going to take a year or 2 to shed that, then there is the whole mentality of it to deal with like why do you comfort eat or when your having a bad day why do you feel the need to binge out, its a whole process that many cannot afford without prices going up any higher..... sorry ranted there didn't I but anyway in a nut shell no I don't think obese should have to pay higher costs for health care.1
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heiliskrimsli wrote: »If a smoker can be charged more, so should the overweight and obese.
True. I think it depends for sure but if it's someone who is obese then they will likely have health problems of some kind. It's kind of a null issue anyway if someone has insurance through their employer since all employees pay the same amount depending on their coverage choice.2 -
nevadavis1 wrote: »Also charging more just means that more overweight and obese people won't get health coverage and will not get preventative care and then won't see a doctor until they wind up in the ER with something life-threatening.
where I live most hospitals take in anyone regardless if they have insurance so they can pay it on a sliding scale or get assistance with paying their bill, not to mention Medicaid is offered in the USA.1 -
Should a person who makes choices that directly negatively affect their health be charged more for isurance. Absolutely. The choice could include, but not be limited to ... tobacco use, overeating to the point of morbid obesity, alcohol or drug abuse. If you purposely disregard your health then you should be penalized or taxed to compensate for it (I really like the tax idea that Japan does).
As a person who worked for a large health insurance company I carry a different perspective than someone who doesn't understand it. If you have an employer based insurance policy the employer is the one that dictates what they cover, not the insurance company. The insurance company follows the policy chosen by the employer and enforces it. If the employer chooses not to cover and experimental procedure then there is nothing you can do to force the insurance company to pay for it as it. As far as preexisting conditions, most policies waive that if there is no break in coverage from the previous policy to the current policy. If you've been years untreated for a condition and choose to pick up insurance just because you get pregnant or your condition worsens, why expect an insurance company to NOT see you as high risk and question your coverage. Once treated you could stop paying your coverage and the insurance company is left liable for thousands of medical bills when you only paid a few hundred dollars of premiums.3 -
As far as preexisting conditions, most policies waive that if there is no break in coverage from the previous policy to the current policy.
The ACA made it illegal to have pre-existing conditions be used for denial of coverage with the exception of very specific grandfathered plans regardless of breaks in coverage.0 -
Sure, let's charge overweight people more for their insurance, and while we are at it let's add smokers, heavy drinkers, those with high blood pressure, high cholesterol, or any congenital health condition. High cost has not deterred people from continuing to drink or smoke, what makes you think that the high cost of health insurance would be any different. Health costs are already sky high so let's make it even more affordable.0
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@Sweets1954 smokers already pay more for life insurance, and cigarette taxes have drastically reduced smoking rates, especially in teens.5
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Why is the emphasis on individual life style changes when other valid questions remain unaddressed. Why, for example is a hospital allowed to charge $100 for a Tylenol and $75 for a box of tissues? The reason health care facilities do not 'post' their fee schedule (as has been suggesting many times) is because the Registrar will investigate what a patient's individual policy will allow, and charge accordingly. How convenient for hospitals, insurers, Pharma, medical device suppliers, etc that the conversion continues to encourage the policyholders to focus on dividing and blaming each other. #allroadsleadtoasinglepayer
And by the way, if anyone can point me to a country that provides universal health care where the citizenry is lobbying their government to end the madness and take up a 'great' system like we have here is US, I would gladly look into their reasons.8 -
armchairherpetologist wrote: »As far as preexisting conditions, most policies waive that if there is no break in coverage from the previous policy to the current policy.
The ACA made it illegal to have pre-existing conditions be used for denial of coverage with the exception of very specific grandfathered plans regardless of breaks in coverage.
We all see how well AHA has worked haven't we?1 -
Why is the emphasis on individual life style changes when other valid questions remain unaddressed. Why, for example is a hospital allowed to charge $100 for a Tylenol and $75 for a box of tissues? The reason health care facilities do not 'post' their fee schedule (as has been suggesting many times) is because the Registrar will investigate what a patient's individual policy will allow, and charge accordingly. How convenient for hospitals, insurers, Pharma, medical device suppliers, etc that the conversion continues to encourage the policyholders to focus on dividing and blaming each other. #allroadsleadtoasinglepayer
And by the way, if anyone can point me to a country that provides universal health care where the citizenry is lobbying their government to end the madness and take up a 'great' system like we have here is US, I would gladly look into their reasons.
Physician and facilities can charge whatever they want but are contractually obligated to accept the fee schedules designated by the heath insurance ... that where your participate vs non participating providers come into play. The part that most people don't realize is that the amount over the insurance companies fee schedule are actually a tax write off for the provider. Example ... hospital charges $7000 for a maternity claim, insurance determine only $3000 allowed and benefits are paid based on that. The remaining $4000 is a tax write off for the hospital.
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