You dont need to calorie count

Morgaen73

I've heard this said in the forums a few times, along with "just eat intuitively" and "eat LCHF" When I asked how much I need to eat with LCHF I was tols "eat untill you are full. It's very calorie dense so you get full more quickly"

Here is the problem with eating intuitively ... for some people it is not intuitive.

I am never full. Yes, I'm constantly hungry. I am either hungry or I eat until I'm nauseous. If I had to eat a piece of cheese to full me up, I would eat the whole block.

I did an experiment this weekend. I didn't log. I decided that I've been on MFP for long enough to judge how much I should eat without measuring.

So, Friday (I measured until after lunch) ... eating little bits at a time and using the "am I still hungry test" I was still hungry after I ate my "modest" portions. Lunch was 1000 kcal btw and I was still hungry.

Saturday ... had a modest breakfast of scrambled eggs and toast after my workout. Small bites during the day and we went to a bbq the evening where I had 1 beer and also ate moderately.

Sunday, the same thing. Ate moderately (according to me). Keeping to the "am I still hungry" test.

So, very optimistically I climb on the scale this morning ... 3kg heavier than Friday morning.

Now I know the following contributed
1. I haven had a poop since Thursday
2. Water weight ... but I have had my full water requirement every day so there is no reason why my body would hold back water

So yeah ... clearly some people need to count calories for the rest of their lives.

estherdragonbat

I'm pretty sure I will. For the simple reason that I have some spatial perception issues. Like, you know in geometry when they show you an unfolded box and ask you to determine which shape represents what it would look like if folded? I can't do it. I also can't eyeball a scoop of rice and tell you if it's one cup or two.

Also, I have no doubt that when exposed to foods that I... moderate reluctantly (as in, yes, I can stop at 4 oz of potatoes, but oh if I had the calories, I'd love to have more), without the scale to keep me accountable, my modest portions are going to creep up.

Lounmoun

I feel that I also don't have that intuitive fullness meter that I can trust. Since calorie counting is so easy for me it makes sense to use the tool instead of guessing and being unhappy with my results.
After logging for a couple of years, I could probably eat okay by now without logging because I know roughly how many calories are in the food I typically eat and what portions for me should be. That is still not relying on feeling full or hungry.

Some people don't need to use the tool of calorie counting to manage their weight. Some of us do. Pick what helps you.

dutchandkiwi

I will count even if I learn - In the past I have been very capable to unlearn my portion sizes again. Not logging leads to weightgain for me

amusedmonkey

They don't need to count calories to lose weight, I do. I can get away with not logging when I'm maintaining, but I still "count calories" in my head and watch the scale for quick adjustments. My hunger signals are weird and on some days I'm capable of eating 2000 calories in one meal, feeling full in the stomach, but hungry. On normal appetite days I NEED to leave the table hungry after I've had a meal I know from experience will satiate me eventually because my satiety signals take up to an hour to catch up. Being full when I'm done with a meal without going way over calories is rare and unpredictable. I tried to keep notes to see if certain kinds of foods help with that, but I couldn't. There are foods that help me feel full longer, but not sooner. Eating until I'm no longer hungry is not an option because it's a sure way to overeat.

As for low carb, the portions are TINY. I could NEVER feel full on them even after my usual 30-60 minutes wait. A keto Chicken Kiev is 600 calories for just one chicken breast without any side dish, that's no more than 150-200 grams of food. I need at least 4x that to feel full and leafy greens won't cut it (leafy greens never fill up for some reason unless they're on top of something like rice or as a part of a dish I know fills me up). I'm baffled at the ability of people to feel full on a keto diet.

Raw vegan diet was another thing I tried to document. A lot of food, and I feel full in the stomach, but not in the head. I need a little bit of fat to feel satisfied (not a lot) and going very very low fat was a disaster for my satiety where my stomach is exploding but I'm still hungry somehow. I also noticed cooked foods satiate me better, probably psychological.

Some people are capable of eating intuitively and unconsciously compensating with extra NEAT on days they overeat slightly so any inaccuracies do not have as big of an effect on their weight. I don't have that reaction. If anything, I'm less active on days I overeat unless I intentionally introduce more activity, which is why I try to always pay attention to my day to day activity level and correct whenever it starts degrading.

Some people just have certain intuitive mechanisms that help them regulate their calories, all they need to do is find a way of eating that triggers these mechanisms. I feel I got dealt a bad had in that regard, so calorie counting will always be in the cards for me.

sijomial

I don't enjoy calorie counting but can't eat intuitively or to hunger signals - well I can but I would be enormous!

There's a third choice which is conscious/thoughtful eating. It's what I've done for the majority of my adult life.

I'm calorie aware and think about how much I actually need as opposed to how much I want to eat but don't log my food. Casual monitoring of my weight trend has an impact on my "how much I need" decisions. I've got a variety of tools to reduce calories to correct a persistent upward trend before it gets out of hand.

For me calorie counting was a temporary but useful interlude to get from the level where I maintained my weight but overweight for 20 years to maintaining weight in the right range.
It's still there as a tool/skill if I want the precision to be a certain weight at a certain date and the educational benefits remain long after you stop logging.

But if I had to calorie count to maintain my weight it would be a small price to pay in terms of investment of time.

kommodevaran

I fear that the goal of being able to manage "intuitive eating" puts a lot of pressure on many people. If you're overweight, what's "intuitively enough", is obviously too much. And that's not something which makes that individual a freak - so many are overweight now, that we can't think of getting overweight as simply a personal flaw. We have, naturally, excess appetite in order to fill up in times of plenty, but no times of famine to empty the stores. The food we are surrounded by is not just a lot, it's calorie dense, easy to eat, made to be irrestistible, heavily marketed, and supported by a culture that values indulgence, fast, cheap and easy, and individualism, and frowns on modesty, effort, reason, patience, and at the same time tells us that we have to be like everybody else - that means thin - and avoid disease, by jumping through complicated hoops and loops, but in short just by abstaining from everything we like. Many people use food to cope with stress, and that conflict, with the added feeling of defeat of using eating as a coping mechanism, creates stress for many. And we don't have to move to get anything done, we have to make a conscious effort to even get any exercise at all.

Some of it has to do with habits and what you perceive as normal - I have to "translate" what I think others think of as "full", into what I think of as "a little full". And this is after I've weighed and portioned, mindfully, and eaten mindfully. If I eat from a bag or box or bush, I have to count.

Calorie counting with MFP was a great tool for me to learn to eat mindfully and come up with a practical way of eating that meets my needs for fuel and pleasure, good health and normal weight. I still plan and log my meals, but I don't focus on calories so much.

Morgaen73

Thanks everyone It;s great to know I'm not alone.

Wendyanneroberts

dutchandkiwi wrote: »

I will count even if I learn - In the past I have been very capable to unlearn my portion sizes again. Not logging leads to weightgain for me

I will also be counting and logging (or keeping some type of record), every day for life. As this is the first ime I have been a consistent weight, for any length of time, for about 30 years. The weight gain has been for different reasons; pregnancies, ill health, becoming disabled and life/activity levels changing overnight, bad food choices (not bad foods, but to many of high calorie foods and no balance.) I was either "on a diet" and would successfully lose some or all of my excess weight, but then stop because I'd reach goal or I'd have a health flareups up. Then "stop dieting" and every time , I have always regained some or all of weight lost.

This time is different because tracking on MFP is so easy and I can adjust daily, if need be to fit my lifestyle and balancing healthy choices.
At the moment I'm still eating fewer calories to lose a few more pounds, but I also have days at maintenance, to suit my life. I have also learnt about suitable maintenance levels for me. As being disabled has altered calories out for me. Tracking has really improved my diet, my health and is reflected in blood test results. For a few moments daily, it's become a habit (a bit like brushing my teeth.) Why stop, when I'm reaping the benefits of using this tool.

Morgaen73

Thanks everyone that took the time to share.

VintageFeline

I'd like to think I can maintain when I get there intuitively but I'm a realist and whilst I have maintained in the past, it was overweight. So I'll give it a go but if my weight creeps up I'll log again, even if it's just casually to make sure I am largely where I should be.

I like food. I like eating a lot of it. Letting go of the reins entirely could be a disaster!

lemurcat12

sijomial wrote: »

I don't enjoy calorie counting but can't eat intuitively or to hunger signals - well I can but I would be enormous!

There's a third choice which is conscious/thoughtful eating. It's what I've done for the majority of my adult life.

I'm calorie aware and think about how much I actually need as opposed to how much I want to eat but don't log my food. Casual monitoring of my weight trend has an impact on my "how much I need" decisions. I've got a variety of tools to reduce calories to correct a persistent upward trend before it gets out of hand.

For me calorie counting was a temporary but useful interlude to get from the level where I maintained my weight but overweight for 20 years to maintaining weight in the right range.
It's still there as a tool/skill if I want the precision to be a certain weight at a certain date and the educational benefits remain long after you stop logging.

But if I had to calorie count to maintain my weight it would be a small price to pay in terms of investment of time.

This is largely how I am too.

I sometimes enjoy calorie counting for the short term and sometimes use it to motivate myself if I am becoming less mindful, and I found it very educational, but I can maintain fine without counting. What I cannot do is eat to hunger (I'm not really hungry or not -- my desire to eat is mostly based on habit or mental things, like whether something looks tasty, period). I don't even think this is a flaw in my makeup or psychology, it would have worked fine in most eras and cultures when food was eaten according to custom and wasn't hugely available. During a service trip to Nicaragua, for example, I'd happily eat the breakfast provided, work til lunch, eat lunch, so on, and lost quite a bit of weight never feeling one bit hungry (on high carb macros, even) because for me if food is not around or expected I don't think about it.

But when food is on offer all the time and so easy and portions are easy to distort I have to add some thought, be mindful, and for me it's helpful to eat to a schedule and pay attention to the portions I've learned work for me.

That's not "inituitive eating" or "listening to my body" (my body lies), but also easier for me than always calorie counting. (But like you calorie counting wouldn't be that hard if it was the only option.)

ninerbuff

The people I know of who eat intuitively, don't really eat that I've ever seen. I have a couple of acquaintances that do and they are both vegetarian, don't exercise and just eat so little. We went out one time and they both orders small salads for dinner and that was it. Maybe they ate before? Who knows, but every time I've seen them on get togethers, I've never seen them snack or eat even if there is decent food available.
For me, I count because I like to be somewhat accurate. And also being able to teach it to my clients matter too.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

MOJayhawker

I'm one of those type of eaters too, Morgaen73. I'll eat until I'm sick if you give me the chance and love every minute of it. Trying to eat intuitively for me is no diet for me, it's what got me here in the first place.

Since I have hyperinsulinism and high cholesterol issues, I HAVE to count the calories, eliminate problem foods, and portion all my meals. Failure to do so, or to eat foods high in sugar or carbs guarantees I'll gain instead of losing.

Since starting with MFP in May, I've only lost 13 lbs despite keeping a strict 1500 calorie a day limit, drinking my fill in water, and walking nearly 10,000 steps 5-6 days a week. It's not a huge loss considering what my goal is, but it's the first weight I've actually lost in 20 years of trying. It's a constant uphill battle that will never end.

Morgaen73

crazyravr wrote: »

Morgaen73 wrote: »

I've heard this said in the forums a few times, along with "just eat intuitively" and "eat LCHF" When I asked how much I need to eat with LCHF I was tols "eat untill you are full. It's very calorie dense so you get full more quickly"

Here is the problem with eating intuitively ... for some people it is not intuitive.

I am never full. Yes, I'm constantly hungry. I am either hungry or I eat until I'm nauseous. If I had to eat a piece of cheese to full me up, I would eat the whole block.

I did an experiment this weekend. I didn't log. I decided that I've been on MFP for long enough to judge how much I should eat without measuring.

So, Friday (I measured until after lunch) ... eating little bits at a time and using the "am I still hungry test" I was still hungry after I ate my "modest" portions. Lunch was 1000 kcal btw and I was still hungry.

Saturday ... had a modest breakfast of scrambled eggs and toast after my workout. Small bites during the day and we went to a bbq the evening where I had 1 beer and also ate moderately.

Sunday, the same thing. Ate moderately (according to me). Keeping to the "am I still hungry" test.

So, very optimistically I climb on the scale this morning ... 3kg heavier than Friday morning.

Now I know the following contributed
1. I haven had a poop since Thursday
2. Water weight ... but I have had my full water requirement every day so there is no reason why my body would hold back water

So yeah ... clearly some people need to count calories for the rest of their lives.

Volume. Nothing fills me up more than volume. And because I LOVE green veggies, this is very easy for me. Its the only way I can stay full and not go looking for food after I have that protein bar which some people claim keeps them full for most of the day.

I dont like vegeterribles to begin with so after 4 years of having salad for lunch I said enough is enough lol Yeah those bars, bananas and pretty much anything else that should "keep me full for hours" really just doesn't.

Need2Exerc1se

I'm not sure your very short test and single weigh in proves anything about the rest or your life. But when someone on these forums says you don't have to log there is no reason you need to heed the advice. Do whatever you prefer.

TeaBea

dutchandkiwi wrote: »

I will count even if I learn - In the past I have been very capable to unlearn my portion sizes again. Not logging leads to weightgain for me

I unlearn this too. I also get really lazy.

Rufftimes

I'm on the other end of the spectrum than the rest of you, but I have to agree to do what works for you....(: Having said that, since I've been on Keto the past six months, it's the first time in my life I'm not starving all the time. In fact, I've tried twice to go back to a "regular" diet plan, and the first thing I notice when I start eating carbs, and in particular sugar, is that I'm hungry all the time. Just like I used to be, ten minutes after a meal I'm back in the fridge. So definitely do what works best for your situation

missevil

I'm calorie counting now for roughly 5 months and restrict myself quite a lot. But the truth is, I never get used to the smaller portions. I've often heard "you get used to it" or "your stomach will shrink, so you don't need so much to feel full" That's unfortunately never happening for me.
Every few weeks I go to a breakfast buffet with a friend and try to be good, but in the end, I eat until I reach a food coma. My stomach can still hold a lot of food and if I don't restrict myself via MFP, I'm fat again in no time.
It's fine to skip a few days here and there and I absolutely enjoy those breakfast dates without a hint of guilt, but in general, I need to count every day and that will continue in my maintenance and forever. Probably a bit more loosely, but yeah, not counting will make me overeat all the time.

Packerjohn

My intuition is how the waist fits on my jeans. If it starts getting tight, it's time to eat less.