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You dont need to calorie count
Replies
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Christine_72 wrote: »Don't we all know how to intuitively eat? It's just some of us (me included) choose to ignore that little voice in our heads and that overstuffed feeling in our guts. I intuitively know full well i don't need that whole bag of chips, dessert after dinner every night or that extra scoop of pasta/rice/mashed potato, but i choose to ignore the sensible side of my brain and follow the "I need something tasty even though I'm not hungry" or the "That tastes so good, I'm not going to stop at a normal/sensible portion" side..
I don't.
Sensible side of the brain relates more to mindful eating (which does work for me), not intuitive.
Intuitive suggests that if you follow hunger and fullness cues and are sensitive to how your body feels, that you will naturally eat the right things for you (will desire them and not overeat) even without using the sensible side (i.e., thinking about how caloric something is or what a sensible portion would be).
I know for me I can EASILY go over a reasonable number of calories for the day, by a lot even, without ever feeling overstuffed. Feeling overstuffed is more about volume or how much I eat at a time, not how much I eat in the day.8 -
I'm another for whom exercise -- or just being reasonably active in a day, which I think used to be normal just in living one's life and often can be for me too, since I rarely drive anywhere and walk more often than not -- is hugely important more for reasons beyond TDEE, like emotional issues, health.
I also find that I naturally tend to eat to calories (with some mindfulness, but less thought being necessary) when I am more active. Less because of TDEE, again, as because I find that when I'm fitness-focused I don't want to eat between meals, tend to crave more nutrient-dense, lower cal foods, things like that. Part of it is probably that I stop using food for emotional stuff, and part that I just naturally focus on what is healthful when I'm in that frame of mind.3 -
I don't count calories. I did for a little bit years ago and it was not for me. That doesn't mean I eat until I'm full. I pay attention to portion size and what I'm eating.
You do what works for you.4 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »Don't we all know how to intuitively eat? It's just some of us (me included) choose to ignore that little voice in our heads and that overstuffed feeling in our guts. I intuitively know full well i don't need that whole bag of chips, dessert after dinner every night or that extra scoop of pasta/rice/mashed potato, but i choose to ignore the sensible side of my brain and follow the "I need something tasty even though I'm not hungry" or the "That tastes so good, I'm not going to stop at a normal/sensible portion" side..
I don't.
Sensible side of the brain relates more to mindful eating (which does work for me), not intuitive.
Intuitive suggests that if you follow hunger and fullness cues and are sensitive to how your body feels, that you will naturally eat the right things for you (will desire them and not overeat) even without using the sensible side (i.e., thinking about how caloric something is or what a sensible portion would be).
I know for me I can EASILY go over a reasonable number of calories for the day, by a lot even, without ever feeling overstuffed. Feeling overstuffed is more about volume or how much I eat at a time, not how much I eat in the day.
Ahh ok, I think I'm mixing up mindful and intuitive eating.3 -
Oh I hear you. I could eat for days. Even if I'm FULL I can still just eat and eat.
I stopped logging calories anyway because I think I started to go crazy after 3 years. I gained weight but I'm happy and probably still cute.10 -
Not sure if I agree with the rest of our lives we will have to count calories.
Just like anything we have to learn what works for us and what does not.
Counting calories works for me, that is why I do it. I never eat until I am full anymore, it makes me feel awful and uncomfortable.
I don't think it is healthy, but before I start a new program I fast for 1 day. It puts the whole feeling hungry thing into perspective. And when I feel hungry after I have been eating all day, I think back to when I fasted and realize I am really not that hungry. (I usually start programs at the beginning of Lent, so it is not just fasting for weight loss reasons)0 -
If you take hormones into account this whole "eat until your full" is absolutely rubbish. It works for maybe 3 and half weeks out of the month for me but that 4 days in there my body is telling me I'm never full. Now when I get to my desired goal, I will maintain and just use the scale to determine where I'm at but "eat until I'm full" while trying to cut isn't going to work.5
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I know I'll be counting calories forever now... but as with people who need to take Meds, I view it as a necessary in my life. If I had any intuition about calories, I doubt I'd have gotten obese.7
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The experiment shows you that you need to keep logging and tracking at this point, that's all. Lesson learned.
I had a look at a few days in your food diary and think I can see some reasons why you are 'never full'. Some changes to consider:
Add vegetables to your diet e.g. carrot, broccoli, and cauliflower. Eat raw, or steam or microwave is the easiest.
You ate 'hot dog rolls' - these may be made of refined white flour with sugar added. Check ingredients and try replacing this with wholemeal bread or roll or sourdough without added sugar.
You don't need the flavoured and sugared coffee sachets. Plain coffee is good.
'Protein ice cream' is still ice cream. Try some chopped veg instead with a few (weighed) unsalted nuts.
Some of the items you are eating may not be recording the correct sugars. If you eat them regularly it is worth amending the details in MFP. e.g. 'Picknpay Fat Free Cranberry and Apple Yoghurt, 200 g' must have some sugars in it, but none are showing.
The pre made chicken noodle soup you ate is probably over salted and light on the chicken and veg. Try making your own chicken noodle soup. Add veg. Remove the fat and skin from the chicken first. You can use a pre-cooked BBQ chicken but if so do not eat the stuffing (if any) or the skin or any fat. Throw it away. Log the recipe components in MFP and the no. of serves and it will tell you how many cal/kj per serve.
The lamb chop (Aus) is great! I'm Australian! Lamb is fattier than chicken though. Be sure to cut off ALL the visible fat.
Check labels of the cereals you are eating for added sugar. Replace with lower sugar cereal.
You ate 1 egg on one day. Eggs are great unless you have a reason not to eat them. Try 2 eggs and cut some other stuff out.
Biltong can be salty, check label and see if there are less salty versions.
Also - foods like protein, veg and wholemeal breads tend to be more physically filling and the last 2 will assist with *ahem* regularity. Don't overeat bread though.
Consider seeing a qualified dietician (not a nutritionist), taking along a copy of your food diary for some personalised and professional advice.
Weigh and log everything, and keep weighing yourself regularly.5 -
I found mfp after slowly gaining 15-20 lbs over the course of 10 years. During that time I ate until I was full most of the time, mixed with short periods of trying to eat "light" and rarely stuffing myself on special occasions. You don't have to overeat much to gain 2 lbs a yr! After several years of logging, I know that I could eat a little bit more now than I do and feel physically comfortable, and would most likely do so if I stopped logging, and would gain that 15 lbs back
I'm trying to increase my activity level so my tdee would get up to where I would naturally eat, but until/if that ever happens I will be logging.2 -
I've heard this said in the forums a few times, along with "just eat intuitively" and "eat LCHF" When I asked how much I need to eat with LCHF I was tols "eat untill you are full. It's very calorie dense so you get full more quickly"
Here is the problem with eating intuitively ... for some people it is not intuitive.
I am never full. Yes, I'm constantly hungry. I am either hungry or I eat until I'm nauseous. If I had to eat a piece of cheese to full me up, I would eat the whole block.
I did an experiment this weekend. I didn't log. I decided that I've been on MFP for long enough to judge how much I should eat without measuring.
So, Friday (I measured until after lunch) ... eating little bits at a time and using the "am I still hungry test" I was still hungry after I ate my "modest" portions. Lunch was 1000 kcal btw and I was still hungry.
Saturday ... had a modest breakfast of scrambled eggs and toast after my workout. Small bites during the day and we went to a bbq the evening where I had 1 beer and also ate moderately.
Sunday, the same thing. Ate moderately (according to me). Keeping to the "am I still hungry" test.
So, very optimistically I climb on the scale this morning ... 3kg heavier than Friday morning.
Now I know the following contributed
1. I haven had a poop since Thursday
2. Water weight ... but I have had my full water requirement every day so there is no reason why my body would hold back water
So yeah ... clearly some people need to count calories for the rest of their lives.
My personal experience tells me much the same thing. Some people may be able to not count. If I don't, I put on weight. My hunger/satisfaction signals are completely messed up, so calorie counting is the thing that keeps me in control of my eating.1 -
Intuitive eating (well the concept that it's based on) works when your body chemistry is doing what it's supposed to, and your brain doesn't override things, and... There are tons of variables, most of which make it a near impossible task for the majority of people. Imho I think it's just more buzz words that make people feel like there's more they could be doing because it worked for someone else. It puts $$$ in the pockets of the companies that peddle the fad diets and foods to go with them.2
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Maybe it's my personality, but I just don't trust myself here. I'm a very quantitative person - intuition doesn't really work that well for me. Plus, as Mrs Jruzer says, I'm an "eater". To my mind, calorie counting is liberating. I concede that for others it might feel like a burden, and if they can somehow make their intuition work, more power to them.
Could not agree more. For me, calorie counting gets rid of the mental games, the guilt, and the uncertainty. I used to have a cycle of guilt and I think it broke my "reward-o-meter" because a reward went from one Kit-Kat to two to three to "kitten-it, I'll just buy my roommate a new bag because I had a bad day and I deserve it".
I think I have a threshold where "intuitive" could work but it has to be JUST on the hungry side of full, otherwise I go into a "well, I already overate, so I might as well REALLY overeat" mode. I think I'm going to be counting calories for a LOOONG time, even into maintenance. It's like making a budget -- some days you over spend and some days you skip on that latte, but you make it even out in the end.
And yes, counting calories DOES get old, especially since I'm kind of a volume eater. Giving up on counting them would be the same as giving up on counting my 401k contributions -- detrimental to my old age
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You don't have to overeat much to gain 2 lbs a yr!
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I'm trying to increase my activity level so my tdee would get up to where I would naturally eat, but until/if that ever happens I will be logging.
Quoted for ain't that the truth!!
And good luck on upping that TDEE! - lots of MFP'ers report it is easy to do, but I'm guessing that it differs markedly for different folks.1 -
I've heard this said in the forums a few times, along with "just eat intuitively" and "eat LCHF" When I asked how much I need to eat with LCHF I was tols "eat untill you are full. It's very calorie dense so you get full more quickly"
Here is the problem with eating intuitively ... for some people it is not intuitive.
I am never full. Yes, I'm constantly hungry. I am either hungry or I eat until I'm nauseous. If I had to eat a piece of cheese to full me up, I would eat the whole block.
I did an experiment this weekend. I didn't log. I decided that I've been on MFP for long enough to judge how much I should eat without measuring.
So, Friday (I measured until after lunch) ... eating little bits at a time and using the "am I still hungry test" I was still hungry after I ate my "modest" portions. Lunch was 1000 kcal btw and I was still hungry.
Saturday ... had a modest breakfast of scrambled eggs and toast after my workout. Small bites during the day and we went to a bbq the evening where I had 1 beer and also ate moderately.
Sunday, the same thing. Ate moderately (according to me). Keeping to the "am I still hungry" test.
So, very optimistically I climb on the scale this morning ... 3kg heavier than Friday morning.
Now I know the following contributed
1. I haven had a poop since Thursday
2. Water weight ... but I have had my full water requirement every day so there is no reason why my body would hold back water
So yeah ... clearly some people need to count calories for the rest of their lives.
Among low carbers on these forums, I would guess the majority count their calories, at least roughly, while losing weight. For many, LCHF reduces their appetite but it may not be enough to break the habit of overeating.
I lost weight while LCHF. I logged my calories but did not count my calories to determine what I ate. Rather, I mostly recorded what I did eat with a few days of realizing I should eat a little less because a food had more calories than expected.
I stopped logging after 4 months of weight loss. After that I guess it could be called intuitive eating. I lost a few more pounds and then maintained.
Intuitive eating does happen, and it can work, but it doesn't seem to be the norm for those who were previously overweight.0 -
I'm one who feels people should strive to eat without counting. In some situations and as a learning tool, counting can be invaluable, but I don't understand the accepted reliance on daily calorie counting for life.
If after a period of time counting, surely you understand how much food you need and are ingesting without measuring every gram? If you have a trend up, eat less. If you are trending down, eat more. I know that relying on hunger cues can be dangerous, sometimes you follow your hunger & eat, sometimes you have to know when to ignore it. I also think that individuals should find foods that they enjoy that are difficult to overindulge on.9 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Speaking as a person who gets "copious amounts of exercise", I'd like to mention that I get said exercise to manage a medical condition, not my weight. The fact that my TDEE is higher due to said exercise is just a bonus.
Being active is an end unto itself for me, I think this is true for a lot of people who get into fitness. It becomes its own reward and it's really not about weight management. To imply that it has anything at all to do with being a primary focus for its pursuit really misses what most people into fitness are about.
As for logging/tracking? I can draw something accurately, but can't for the life of me measure portions. I will log for the time being.
If life happens, I'll adjust. I always do. That's one thing I've learned. I'm adaptable.
This is my experience as well. I mean, don't get me wrong, I enjoy the bonus of the higher TDEE . . . but exercise is more important for me as a mood regulator/stress relief. If I was just doing it for extra calories, I'd probably do a lot less.
If I had to cut back on the exercise, I'd be able to adjust because I now understand my body's calorie needs and how activity impacts them.1 -
I'm one who feels people should strive to eat without counting. In some situations and as a learning tool, counting can be invaluable, but I don't understand the accepted reliance on daily calorie counting for life.
If after a period of time counting, surely you understand how much food you need and are ingesting without measuring every gram? If you have a trend up, eat less. If you are trending down, eat more. I know that relying on hunger cues can be dangerous, sometimes you follow your hunger & eat, sometimes you have to know when to ignore it. I also think that individuals should find foods that they enjoy that are difficult to overindulge on.
I can understand why people might want to find foods they enjoy that are difficult to overindulge on, but to say they "should"? I don't know, I think it's a matter of personal preference. I'm happier when I have the foods I love in my diet. The price I pay for that is that I have to exercise more self-control, but I'd rather have some potato than no potato.4 -
janejellyroll wrote: »I'm one who feels people should strive to eat without counting. In some situations and as a learning tool, counting can be invaluable, but I don't understand the accepted reliance on daily calorie counting for life.
If after a period of time counting, surely you understand how much food you need and are ingesting without measuring every gram? If you have a trend up, eat less. If you are trending down, eat more. I know that relying on hunger cues can be dangerous, sometimes you follow your hunger & eat, sometimes you have to know when to ignore it. I also think that individuals should find foods that they enjoy that are difficult to overindulge on.
I can understand why people might want to find foods they enjoy that are difficult to overindulge on, but to say they "should"? I don't know, I think it's a matter of personal preference. I'm happier when I have the foods I love in my diet. The price I pay for that is that I have to exercise more self-control, but I'd rather have some potato than no potato.
I agree about the 'should'. But not sure I understand the rest of this. Why would eating potatoes = calorie counting more than other foods?0 -
If intuitive eating worked, nobody would ever be fat. People don't think before they say things.5
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impyimpyaj wrote: »If intuitive eating worked, nobody would ever be fat. People don't think before they say things.
Or they don't understand what is meant by intuitive eating. (hint: it's not eating anything and everything you want)1 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »impyimpyaj wrote: »If intuitive eating worked, nobody would ever be fat. People don't think before they say things.
Or they don't understand what is meant by intuitive eating. (hint: it's not eating anything and everything you want)
You're right, it's not. But my full and hungry signals are messed up, and I always seem to crave the exact opposite thing from what I need to feel good. So yeah, calorie counting and meal planning is what I'm going to have to do to maintain my health. I tried not doing that, and here I am back again because it didn't work to just trust my intuition all the time. I gotta see numbers.
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MFP is a good-enough tool that allows me to manage my weight and nutrition with minimal stress. I don't find it burdensome in any way. Why would I want to stop using it? You might as well say a tape measure is a learning tool and your goal should be learning to measure intuitively. If it's too hard to measure those corners, learn to like measuring straight lines. A tool is a tool, not necessarily a crutch.9
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I'm one who feels people should strive to eat without counting. In some situations and as a learning tool, counting can be invaluable, but I don't understand the accepted reliance on daily calorie counting for life.
If after a period of time counting, surely you understand how much food you need and are ingesting without measuring every gram? If you have a trend up, eat less. If you are trending down, eat more. I know that relying on hunger cues can be dangerous, sometimes you follow your hunger & eat, sometimes you have to know when to ignore it. I also think that individuals should find foods that they enjoy that are difficult to overindulge on.
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I'm one who feels people should strive to eat without counting. In some situations and as a learning tool, counting can be invaluable, but I don't understand the accepted reliance on daily calorie counting for life.
If after a period of time counting, surely you understand how much food you need and are ingesting without measuring every gram? If you have a trend up, eat less. If you are trending down, eat more. I know that relying on hunger cues can be dangerous, sometimes you follow your hunger & eat, sometimes you have to know when to ignore it. I also think that individuals should find foods that they enjoy that are difficult to overindulge on.
Why? I think people should form an idea about their eating habits, and be capable of managing food without counting if need arises, but I don't think it should be everyone's goal to always eat without counting. I mean I'm capable of doing maths in my head, but I would much rather use a calculator when I have access to it. A calculator guarantees accuracy just like logging does.
I also don't think individual should limit themselves to foods that are difficult to overindulge on. They could, but if they don't want to they don't need to. We have the tools to eat whatever we want, so why is it wrong to use said tools if it increases the chance of long term weight management? I tend to overeat dates. I like raisins too, but I don't overeat them. Someone in my situation may choose to replace dates with raisins to avoid overindulgence, but that's not a solution that increases my happiness. Liking raisins does not mean I won't still want dates. Using the tools I have to count their calories and moderate them makes me happier than giving them up, so why would I pick the option that would make me less happy?7 -
I'm one who feels people should strive to eat without counting. In some situations and as a learning tool, counting can be invaluable, but I don't understand the accepted reliance on daily calorie counting for life.
If after a period of time counting, surely you understand how much food you need and are ingesting without measuring every gram? If you have a trend up, eat less. If you are trending down, eat more. I know that relying on hunger cues can be dangerous, sometimes you follow your hunger & eat, sometimes you have to know when to ignore it. I also think that individuals should find foods that they enjoy that are difficult to overindulge on.
OK, I'm going to expose why Mrs Jruzer sometimes calls me "Sheldon."
How do you know if you're eating less, or more? How much less? How much more? If you're not measuring, how do you know?
I'm all for developing healthy habits, and I'm much better and thoughtful about what I eat than I used to be. But the whole "less/more" thing is confusing to me.10 -
I'm one who feels people should strive to eat without counting. In some situations and as a learning tool, counting can be invaluable, but I don't understand the accepted reliance on daily calorie counting for life.
If after a period of time counting, surely you understand how much food you need and are ingesting without measuring every gram? If you have a trend up, eat less. If you are trending down, eat more. I know that relying on hunger cues can be dangerous, sometimes you follow your hunger & eat, sometimes you have to know when to ignore it. I also think that individuals should find foods that they enjoy that are difficult to overindulge on.
OK, I'm going to expose why Mrs Jruzer sometimes calls me "Sheldon."
How do you know if you're eating less, or more? How much less? How much more? If you're not measuring, how do you know?
I'm all for developing healthy habits, and I'm much better and thoughtful about what I eat than I used to be. But the whole "less/more" thing is confusing to me.
You know the same way you know if you doing less or more of anything. And if for some reason you can't tell, your weight will tell you.1 -
impyimpyaj wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »impyimpyaj wrote: »If intuitive eating worked, nobody would ever be fat. People don't think before they say things.
Or they don't understand what is meant by intuitive eating. (hint: it's not eating anything and everything you want)
You're right, it's not. But my full and hungry signals are messed up, and I always seem to crave the exact opposite thing from what I need to feel good. So yeah, calorie counting and meal planning is what I'm going to have to do to maintain my health. I tried not doing that, and here I am back again because it didn't work to just trust my intuition all the time. I gotta see numbers.
Hey, do what you want. But how does calorie counting solve the cravings vs. feeling good? If you know the difference, how is that not intuition?1 -
Amused by people who think there is an answer to this question beyond "It depends. Do what works for you." I'm still losing and counting. If I have to count to maintain, I will. I will try it without counting, and if it works, Yay for me. If it doesn't I'll go back to counting.
Not counting got me to 330+ lbs. Not counting got my wife to ~135lbs.12 -
To clarify a few things from my post that seem to be misinterpreted
Should find/eat foods that are hard to overindulge on does not mean never eating other foods that you may like/love that are calorie dense. It just means this using this tactic makes it easier to not overeat since you aren't tracking every calorie. Then when you are faced with a food you have to be more cautious around, you are aware of that and take whatever steps necessary, probably eating a smaller portion, or limiting frequency.
How do you know if you are eating more/less. Several ways...the scale will trend up or down, your hunger will be higher/lower or you can know look at the foods you eat...a lot of low calorie foods eaten means you're eating less than if you were eating a lot of high calorie foods. If you've been tracking calories you know the high calorie bombs, and you know what's not.5
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