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Can diet affect your mental health?
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theresejesu wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »
So a Dr who is a:
- cardiologist,
- heart surgeon,
- heart transplant surgeon - both adult and pediatric (who, with his partner, has done more pediatric heart transplants than anyone else in the world),
- a researcher with almost 400 published articles spanning from the 1980's to present,
- inventor of medical devices for heart surgery,
- expert in immunology,
- pioneer in Xenotransplantation,
and has held the prestigious position of Professor and Chair of the Cardiothoracic Surgery Dept at Loma Linda University for many years ..... is a quack....because you say so?
And you're qualified to say so how?
Ummmm.... I would say such a professional's qualifications to speak on such subjects vastly outweigh your own.
I wonder who is more logical to listen to.....hmmmm...
I don't know who you are referring to here, but the leaky gut guy, Peter Smith, is a Naturopath. Yeah. Totally credible - did you even read that article you linked? So much woo.
The other link, from the Cardio site begins with this first sentence (from 2009, BTW) - Abstract (of a Hypothesis):The mechanisms underlying the development and progression of psychiatric illnesses are only partially known. Clinical data suggest blood-brain barrier (BBB) breakdown and inflammation are involved in some patients groups.
I assume they have had eight years and no new insights?
Do you even understand what a hypothesis is?
11 -
In my opinion there is a spiral... you feel crappy, so you eat crappy, so you feel crappier so you eat crappier. Then you get fat(ter) and feel worse and you pretend you just don't care, so you don't take care of yourself and just keep feeling worse and worse. At some point you don't even recognize yourself anymore...
(I should have written that paragraph in the first person.)3 -
theresejesu wrote: »Mental health is a bit broad...maybe depression. Does a bad diet contribute to Schizophrenia? BPD? Othello Syndrome? No it doesn't
Actually, there are reports of the reversal of schizophrenia with low-carb, ketogenic diet.
"We report the unexpected resolution of longstanding schizophrenic symptoms after starting a low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet. After review of the literature, possible reasons for this include the metabolic consequences from the elimination of gluten from the diet, and the modulation of the disease of schizophrenia at the cellular level."
Schizophrenia, gluten, and low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diets: a case report and review of the literature
Nutr Metab 2009, 6:10
PMCID: PMC2652467
The original post stated that people can get mentally unwell from a bad diet, this is not true. If you honestly also believe that someone with schizophrenia can be cured with a low carb diet then go tell it to the masses! I work for a mental health trust. We provide healthy alternatives and encourage clients to follow this lifestyle but diet is NOT the cause of their horrendous illnesses nor can it cure them
I have to disagree. And I've provided you with a case study and review of the literature. Just because you may be unaware of how diet or nutrients, or antinutrients can affect and even cause mental health issues, doesn't mean they don't or can't.
For instance, from my own experience, my daughter has serious anxiety/depression issues for which we found, by supporting mitochondrial function with nicotinamide riboside, we could completely reverse the symptoms. The result was so remarkable the first time she used it, she was so startled that at first she thought something was wrong, then she realized that, for the first time she could ever remember, she was completely free of anxiety.
She has to continue taking nicotinamide riboside or her anxiety comes flooding back, which points to her anxiety being caused by mitochondrial dysfunction, same as my responses to nicotinamide riboside point to mitochondrial dysfunction.
Fo me, taking nicotinamide riboside made an immediate difference in energy, which prior to that first dose, was so lacking, my muscles could hardly propel me across the living room floor (And that's not even getting into the pain and death-like fatigue, cognitive issues, neuromuscular and neurological issues), and at times was so bad, I couldn't even get out of bed. This had been this way for 9 years.
But with the first dose, I felt like someone had plugged me into a nuclear power plant, and I was up walking with little difficulty, and started getting my life back though only to a point, which seemed to be dependent on how much Niagen I could afford to take. At 1000mg/day minimum, that's at least a bottle a week which is quite expensive.
I've been very dependent on it for the last 2 years, with my symptoms rushing back if I waited too long between doses. What is exciting to me is, in learning how a diet high in carbs can exhaust our mitochondria, and that perhaps switching to a low carb, high fat ketogenic diet could have a positive effect on this situation, is seeing results so quickly.
After a week on the ketogenic diet my reliance on Niagen began to significantly decrease. It's now been 2 weeks, I'm primarily taking it for its other benefits and I no longer have my symptoms rushing back on me if I miss a dose. I don't even take it on a regular schedule anymore, as I no longer wake up feeling my symptoms coming back at me if I dont take it on waking.
2 days ago, for the 1st time in 10 years, I walked almost 3 miles on hilly terrain, where, at the most, I was able to walk part of a mall with the help of Niagen before this diet change to a ketogenic diet.
Research in this area of mitochondrial dysfunction and aging has led researchers around the world to start concluding that all disease and even aging itself is, at the most fundamental level, the result of mitochondrial dysfunction.
I will be talking to my daughter about trying a ketogenic diet to see if it helps her anxiety without being dependent on Niagen as much as it's helped me already with my issues. My guess is, it will.19 -
perkymommy wrote: »Yes and it can affect a child's mental health as well. Give your kids sodas and sugary crap or fast food all day and you'll have a grouchy kid that won't listen to you. I've actually had days like that with mine when they had too much junk and it's drastically different than when they eat fresh fruits or veggies and meats all day
I get grouchy if I eat fast food or anything greasy or get over full when I eat. Depends on the food though.
I used to have a book about Food and Moods and it was very interesting. It showed lists of foods you should not eat together that would affect mood and it was very true because I tried some and could tell a difference.
I used to have a book like that too, but lost it. Do you remember what it was called?4 -
I have bipolar disorder and in my experience my diet does not make one bit of difference to my mental health. Medication is the number one determinate of my sanity. I do see improvement of depressive symptoms when I exercise though.10
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jennybearlv wrote: »I have bipolar disorder and in my experience my diet does not make one bit of difference to my mental health. Medication is the number one determinate of my sanity. I do see improvement of depressive symptoms when I exercise though.
The same is true for me.
7 -
Mental health is a bit broad...maybe depression. Does a bad diet contribute to Schizophrenia? BPD? Othello Syndrome? No it doesn't
@Panda8ach do you have any links to support there being any medical validity to your quoted personal opinion about diet relationship to mental health concerns that you mentioned?7 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »Mental health is a bit broad...maybe depression. Does a bad diet contribute to Schizophrenia? BPD? Othello Syndrome? No it doesn't
@Panda8ach do you have any links to support there being any medical validity to your quoted personal opinion about diet relationship to mental health concerns that you mentioned?
You really think schizophrenia and bp can be cured by diet?10 -
excercise helps me with my depression , pizza also helps me with my depression13
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My father had a good diet... Did that stop him from having schizophrenia and othellos syndrome? No it didn't. Does my mother and brothers diet stop them from being bipolar? No it doesn't. Has my new diet and lifestyle cured my bpd? No it hasn't! I have first hand experience with this... I also work for a mental health trust. If diet cured these things do you not think the GPs or mental health professionals would suggest this miracle cure? Sure, diet may make a dint on depression and perhaps anxiety but does it cure OR cause mental health illness... No it doesn't10
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My data is purely anecdotal but here we go:
- When I restrict calories, I feel much better. Clearer mind, less anxiety, better sleep
- When I exercise, my depression symptoms improve markedly, even from just getting my 10k steps in. On the days that I don't, I have less energy and spend more time in my own head
- I've also been eating low carb and noticed an even greater shift in mental clarity and general lessening of anxiety. This could be attributed to the first two factors and I'm not sure it contributes but I've noticed steady improvement in all areas of mental health.
Full disclaimer: I've been diagnosed with depression only, not an anxiety disorder or any more serious mental illnesses. Again this is anecdotal but it's what I've noticed.4 -
SiegfriedXXL wrote: »My data is purely anecdotal but here we go:
- When I restrict calories, I feel much better. Clearer mind, less anxiety, better sleep
- When I exercise, my depression symptoms improve markedly, even from just getting my 10k steps in. On the days that I don't, I have less energy and spend more time in my own head
- I've also been eating low carb and noticed an even greater shift in mental clarity and general lessening of anxiety. This could be attributed to the first two factors and I'm not sure it contributes but I've noticed steady improvement in all areas of mental health.
Full disclaimer: I've been diagnosed with depression only, not an anxiety disorder or any more serious mental illnesses. Again this is anecdotal but it's what I've noticed.
Hey.. Every mental illness is as serious as the next. Yours is a bad to you as anyone's. I'm super happy you've found some relief Exercise produces the happy hormone that us peeps with depression struggle to produce so yes, it will help. I have depression and general anxiety disorder as well as BPD... The original claim was that poor diet CAUSES mental health problems which I believe it does not. There was a claim that schizophrenia can be cured by a low carb diet.... I just find that a ridiculous thing to say. I'm not belittling depression or any mental health problems.. I just think claiming I got poorly because of my diet and extreme thing to say.
Again, super happy you've found something to ease your suffering4 -
SiegfriedXXL wrote: »My data is purely anecdotal but here we go:
- When I restrict calories, I feel much better. Clearer mind, less anxiety, better sleep
- When I exercise, my depression symptoms improve markedly, even from just getting my 10k steps in. On the days that I don't, I have less energy and spend more time in my own head
- I've also been eating low carb and noticed an even greater shift in mental clarity and general lessening of anxiety. This could be attributed to the first two factors and I'm not sure it contributes but I've noticed steady improvement in all areas of mental health.
Full disclaimer: I've been diagnosed with depression only, not an anxiety disorder or any more serious mental illnesses. Again this is anecdotal but it's what I've noticed.
Hey.. Every mental illness is as serious as the next. Yours is a bad to you as anyone's. I'm super happy you've found some relief Exercise produces the happy hormone that us peeps with depression struggle to produce so yes, it will help. I have depression and general anxiety disorder as well as BPD... The original claim was that poor diet CAUSES mental health problems which I believe it does not. There was a claim that schizophrenia can be cured by a low carb diet.... I just find that a ridiculous thing to say. I'm not belittling depression or any mental health problems.. I just think claiming I got poorly because of my diet and extreme thing to say.
Again, super happy you've found something to ease your suffering
I think, from a careful reading of that paper, that it really pointed to the fact that in some cases of schizophrenia, gluten or celiac disease might be a factor. This isn't to say that schizophrenia is cured, I think the real issue here is a case where these people don't have true schizophrenia and just have a very atypical reaction to gluten.
People have symptoms that are like one disease in response to something else and it often leads to misdiagnosis all the time. I recently went through this myself where a very strange side effect of one of my autoimmune conditions mimicked another much more serious disease and it was hell going through the diagnostic process because we thought I had a new disease.
8 -
cmriverside wrote: »theresejesu wrote: »cmriverside wrote: »
So a Dr who is a:
- cardiologist,
- heart surgeon,
- heart transplant surgeon - both adult and pediatric (who, with his partner, has done more pediatric heart transplants than anyone else in the world),
- a researcher with almost 400 published articles spanning from the 1980's to present,
- inventor of medical devices for heart surgery,
- expert in immunology,
- pioneer in Xenotransplantation,
and has held the prestigious position of Professor and Chair of the Cardiothoracic Surgery Dept at Loma Linda University for many years ..... is a quack....because you say so?
And you're qualified to say so how?
Ummmm.... I would say such a professional's qualifications to speak on such subjects vastly outweigh your own.
I wonder who is more logical to listen to.....hmmmm...
I don't know who you are referring to here, but the leaky gut guy, Peter Smith, is a Naturopath. Yeah. Totally credible - did you even read that article you linked? So much woo.
The other link, from the Cardio site begins with this first sentence (from 2009, BTW) - Abstract (of a Hypothesis):The mechanisms underlying the development and progression of psychiatric illnesses are only partially known. Clinical data suggest blood-brain barrier (BBB) breakdown and inflammation are involved in some patients groups.
I assume they have had eight years and no new insights?
Do you even understand what a hypothesis is?
So because someone is a naturopath, that automatically makes them not credible? You know that's the ad hominem fallacy, right?
I having a hard time taking your comments seriously. Sorry, but you'll have to do better than simply throwing logical fallacies and personal opinions around.
If you have something legitimate to say of substance I am more than willing to listen and consider it, but this isn't making the cut.11 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »SiegfriedXXL wrote: »My data is purely anecdotal but here we go:
- When I restrict calories, I feel much better. Clearer mind, less anxiety, better sleep
- When I exercise, my depression symptoms improve markedly, even from just getting my 10k steps in. On the days that I don't, I have less energy and spend more time in my own head
- I've also been eating low carb and noticed an even greater shift in mental clarity and general lessening of anxiety. This could be attributed to the first two factors and I'm not sure it contributes but I've noticed steady improvement in all areas of mental health.
Full disclaimer: I've been diagnosed with depression only, not an anxiety disorder or any more serious mental illnesses. Again this is anecdotal but it's what I've noticed.
Hey.. Every mental illness is as serious as the next. Yours is a bad to you as anyone's. I'm super happy you've found some relief Exercise produces the happy hormone that us peeps with depression struggle to produce so yes, it will help. I have depression and general anxiety disorder as well as BPD... The original claim was that poor diet CAUSES mental health problems which I believe it does not. There was a claim that schizophrenia can be cured by a low carb diet.... I just find that a ridiculous thing to say. I'm not belittling depression or any mental health problems.. I just think claiming I got poorly because of my diet and extreme thing to say.
Again, super happy you've found something to ease your suffering
I think, from a careful reading of that paper, that it really pointed to the fact that in some cases of schizophrenia, gluten or celiac disease might be a factor. This isn't to say that schizophrenia is cured, I think the real issue here is a case where these people don't have true schizophrenia and just have a very atypical reaction to gluten.
People have symptoms that are like one disease in response to something else and it often leads to misdiagnosis all the time. I recently went through this myself where a very strange side effect of one of my autoimmune conditions mimicked another much more serious disease and it was hell going through the diagnostic process because we thought I had a new disease.
That's an interesting point; I would ask though, if one were able to stop the signs and symptoms through diet, wouldn't you want to?
And if someone with Type II Diabetes could bring an end to their signs and symptoms through diet, wouldn't they no longer be referred to as diabetic?
And regarding misdiagnosis, I very much agree with you. You might be interested in a book:
Could It Be B12? An Epidemic in Misdiagnoses11 -
My father had a good diet... Did that stop him from having schizophrenia and othellos syndrome? No it didn't. Does my mother and brothers diet stop them from being bipolar? No it doesn't. Has my new diet and lifestyle cured my bpd? No it hasn't! I have first hand experience with this... I also work for a mental health trust. If diet cured these things do you not think the GPs or mental health professionals would suggest this miracle cure? Sure, diet may make a dint on depression and perhaps anxiety but does it cure OR cause mental health illness... No it doesn't
Im not sure anyone can say that unless they have studied all diets in relationship to the illness. If you read Dr Gundry's book The Plant Paradox you'll find his research, and that of others, have demonstrated that many foods we think are good for us to eat, aren't. (That seems to be a very unpopular notion around here.)13 -
theresejesu wrote: »StarBrightStarBright wrote: »French_Peasant wrote: »Out of curiosity, what did she think the connection was between gut issues and ear infections? Just that a healthy gut might cure one problem so it might cure them all? Or was it to help re-establish his gut flora after the antibiotics did their damage to it?
I think it was more about re-establishing gut flora because it might be so inter-related to our whole body. She'd say things like "Make sure he eats lots of fruits and vegetables and yogurt for the next month, you don't want to mess with bad microbes, we're going to be talking about guts a lot in the next 10 years."
I am extremely skeptical of diet being a primary cause of a mental illness, although in this case the OP did not define what was meant by "mentally unwell".
It is not logical to think that humans have evolved to be so sensitive to diet that eating poorly results in erratic and "mentally unwell" behavior. However, the opposite seems logical... people who are suffering from a mental disorder may have diminished capacity to care for themselves and resort to eating foods that are easy to obtain, which typically means low quality (high fat, low nutrient) foods.
It isn't a matter of humans evolving to be so sensitive, but rather we haven't developed the capacity to not be sensitive to anti-nutrients that negatively affect us, including negatively impacting our neurotransmitters.
Garbage in, garbage out, in more ways than one.
Ironic statement is ironic.
11 -
WinoGelato wrote: »theresejesu wrote: »StarBrightStarBright wrote: »French_Peasant wrote: »Out of curiosity, what did she think the connection was between gut issues and ear infections? Just that a healthy gut might cure one problem so it might cure them all? Or was it to help re-establish his gut flora after the antibiotics did their damage to it?
I think it was more about re-establishing gut flora because it might be so inter-related to our whole body. She'd say things like "Make sure he eats lots of fruits and vegetables and yogurt for the next month, you don't want to mess with bad microbes, we're going to be talking about guts a lot in the next 10 years."
I am extremely skeptical of diet being a primary cause of a mental illness, although in this case the OP did not define what was meant by "mentally unwell".
It is not logical to think that humans have evolved to be so sensitive to diet that eating poorly results in erratic and "mentally unwell" behavior. However, the opposite seems logical... people who are suffering from a mental disorder may have diminished capacity to care for themselves and resort to eating foods that are easy to obtain, which typically means low quality (high fat, low nutrient) foods.
It isn't a matter of humans evolving to be so sensitive, but rather we haven't developed the capacity to not be sensitive to anti-nutrients that negatively affect us, including negatively impacting our neurotransmitters.
Garbage in, garbage out, in more ways than one.
Ironic statement is ironic.
Context seems to be so easily dismissed in these discussions.8 -
theresejesu wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »theresejesu wrote: »StarBrightStarBright wrote: »French_Peasant wrote: »Out of curiosity, what did she think the connection was between gut issues and ear infections? Just that a healthy gut might cure one problem so it might cure them all? Or was it to help re-establish his gut flora after the antibiotics did their damage to it?
I think it was more about re-establishing gut flora because it might be so inter-related to our whole body. She'd say things like "Make sure he eats lots of fruits and vegetables and yogurt for the next month, you don't want to mess with bad microbes, we're going to be talking about guts a lot in the next 10 years."
I am extremely skeptical of diet being a primary cause of a mental illness, although in this case the OP did not define what was meant by "mentally unwell".
It is not logical to think that humans have evolved to be so sensitive to diet that eating poorly results in erratic and "mentally unwell" behavior. However, the opposite seems logical... people who are suffering from a mental disorder may have diminished capacity to care for themselves and resort to eating foods that are easy to obtain, which typically means low quality (high fat, low nutrient) foods.
It isn't a matter of humans evolving to be so sensitive, but rather we haven't developed the capacity to not be sensitive to anti-nutrients that negatively affect us, including negatively impacting our neurotransmitters.
Garbage in, garbage out, in more ways than one.
Ironic statement is ironic.
Context seems to be so easily dismissed in these discussions.
Yes. Yes it does.3 -
I'm curious why lectins (one type of anti-nutrient) are problematic, but oxalic acid, phytic acid, and glucosinolates aren't a problem in the Gundry approved list of foods.
gundrymd.com/plant-paradox-shopping-list/
He's rather inconsistent and it would seem to me that a careful read on anti-nutrients shows just about ALL foods except fruits (and even at that, enough fiber in quantity is an anti-nutrient) and meats contain anti-nutrients.
Given that these foods also contain numerous other healthy compounds like vitamins and minerals that have benefits which far outnumber these anti-nutrient effects and that cooking and other known methods deal with the anti-nutrients, I can't see any benefit to being alarmist about foods that people have been eating for years.
I especially can't see the point of putting aside critical thinking and acting like the whole of the body of medical and nutritional science is so backward minded that someone whose own message on the "dangers" inherent in foods isn't even consistent with its own narrative should be adhered to, especially to the point where it's implied that those of us who refuse to see the wisdom in this message are failing to see the truth of it.11
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