Gaining Muscle while still 'fat'?
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Fitteacherc wrote: »Some think it's possible: http://scoobysworkshop.com/gain-muscle-lose-fat/
don't believe everything you read on the internet.
Look at it this way…you need to eat in a calorie surplus (energy) to build muscle, and you need to be in be in a calorie deficit (negative energy) to lose body fat….
how is it possible to do add muscle (need more energy) and lose body fat (need less energy) at the same time, when they are directly opposed to one another.
That is like saying you can fill up your gas tank and empty it at the same time ….or that you can build a house and tear it down at the same time...
This really depends on your definition of 'at the same time' and the scope you're looking at. It's how calorie cycling and intermittent fasting work (essentially pulsing micro bulk/cut cycles from day to day). The overall effect is that you can gain muscle and lose fat. Plenty of people successfully recomp rather than following the traditional cut/bulk/cut/bulk
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Liftng4Lis wrote: »First, WTG on your loss, awesome. Second with the exception of newbie gains, its very difficult for a woman to gain muscle and not possible while in a deficit. Third, muscle does NOT weigh more than fat, its denser than fat therefore a pound of muscle takes up less room than a pound of fat. THEY WEIGH THE SAME. Finally, if you just began an exercise program, you're likely retaining water, which is normal as the muscle repairs.
Muscle is not denser than fat. If you put the fat at the bottom of Mariana Trench and the muscle into a vacuum then fat is denser. Density is not absolute. Water is more dense than water, if you boil one and freeze the other.0 -
Fitteacherc wrote: »Some think it's possible: http://scoobysworkshop.com/gain-muscle-lose-fat/
don't believe everything you read on the internet.
Look at it this way…you need to eat in a calorie surplus (energy) to build muscle, and you need to be in be in a calorie deficit (negative energy) to lose body fat….
how is it possible to do add muscle (need more energy) and lose body fat (need less energy) at the same time, when they are directly opposed to one another.
That is like saying you can fill up your gas tank and empty it at the same time ….or that you can build a house and tear it down at the same time...
This really depends on your definition of 'at the same time' and the scope you're looking at. It's how calorie cycling and intermittent fasting work (essentially pulsing micro bulk/cut cycles from day to day). The overall effect is that you can gain muscle and lose fat. Plenty of people successfully recomp rather than following the traditional cut/bulk/cut/bulk
Your basic genetics also have a large part to play in this. For some people what are called "newbie" gains can amount to quite a lot of muscle. And some stall very early on and can't put on anything significant in a deficit. Also your body can be anabolic at times in a deficit and not catabolic enough to lose muscle which can result in small gains over a long period. And it's true that large amounts of body fat can change this equation in muscles favor somewhat. It's true that if you want to see highly significant results or be a bodybuilder that some level of bulking is going to be required at some stage as well.
That doesn't mean that you can't build any muscle at a deficit. That is an over simplification of the process.
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WolverhamptonFitness wrote: »Yeah, I never think its fair to say noobie gains count!!
They do. Making a statement like that derides the effort newbies are putting in. Well done.
oHHHHHH your one of them people... Yes I offended the entire world (well all the "newbies") in it by stating that I dont think its "FAIR" to say them gains count... forgive me for my opinion! I was making light of a situation. (But I have just started lifting, Im over wieght, I have gained weight from lifting ((PROBALLY NEWBIE GAINES)) But i cannot see the muscle as much as I would if my BF% was 13ish, So I dont count it)
It is impossible (OTHER THEN THE OCCASION MENTIONED) to gain muscle on a deficit, You hold Muscle Mass, when burning fat - instead of burning (in a broad term) muscle.
Lifting also gives you a HIIT addition to your work out, burning fat over time on the days you lift.
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stevencloser wrote: »Liftng4Lis wrote: »First, WTG on your loss, awesome. Second with the exception of newbie gains, its very difficult for a woman to gain muscle and not possible while in a deficit. Third, muscle does NOT weigh more than fat, its denser than fat therefore a pound of muscle takes up less room than a pound of fat. THEY WEIGH THE SAME. Finally, if you just began an exercise program, you're likely retaining water, which is normal as the muscle repairs.
Muscle is not denser than fat. If you put the fat at the bottom of Mariana Trench and the muscle into a vacuum then fat is denser. Density is not absolute. Water is more dense than water, if you boil one and freeze the other.
Sorry for double post... but really? like REALLY? why would you go out your way to post this irrelivant information.
a Desk is more dense than a desk, if one is ground into sawdust and the other stays as a desk... get real.
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Fitteacherc wrote: »Some think it's possible: http://scoobysworkshop.com/gain-muscle-lose-fat/
don't believe everything you read on the internet.
Look at it this way…you need to eat in a calorie surplus (energy) to build muscle, and you need to be in be in a calorie deficit (negative energy) to lose body fat….
how is it possible to do add muscle (need more energy) and lose body fat (need less energy) at the same time, when they are directly opposed to one another.
That is like saying you can fill up your gas tank and empty it at the same time ….or that you can build a house and tear it down at the same time...
This really depends on your definition of 'at the same time' and the scope you're looking at. It's how calorie cycling and intermittent fasting work (essentially pulsing micro bulk/cut cycles from day to day). The overall effect is that you can gain muscle and lose fat. Plenty of people successfully recomp rather than following the traditional cut/bulk/cut/bulk
those that do a 'recomp' typically eat at slightly under maintenance so they are still in a deficit, so the basic "energy" principles still apply.
if it was so easy to add muscle and lose fat then why aren't we all walking around shredded with 10% body fat..????
i love how people think that this is something that is so easy to do …besides the fact that it is against physics...0 -
Fitteacherc wrote: »Some think it's possible: http://scoobysworkshop.com/gain-muscle-lose-fat/
don't believe everything you read on the internet.
Look at it this way…you need to eat in a calorie surplus (energy) to build muscle, and you need to be in be in a calorie deficit (negative energy) to lose body fat….
how is it possible to do add muscle (need more energy) and lose body fat (need less energy) at the same time, when they are directly opposed to one another.
That is like saying you can fill up your gas tank and empty it at the same time ….or that you can build a house and tear it down at the same time...
This really depends on your definition of 'at the same time' and the scope you're looking at. It's how calorie cycling and intermittent fasting work (essentially pulsing micro bulk/cut cycles from day to day). The overall effect is that you can gain muscle and lose fat. Plenty of people successfully recomp rather than following the traditional cut/bulk/cut/bulk
those that do a 'recomp' typically eat at slightly under maintenance so they are still in a deficit, so the basic "energy" principles still apply.
if it was so easy to add muscle and lose fat then why aren't we all walking around shredded with 10% body fat..????
i love how people think that this is something that is so easy to do …besides the fact that it is against physics...
and how everyone suddenly becomes an expert on the situation, yet there on here not hitting there own goals.
this is how it is: you could read 10000 different articles argueing with the information you believe in, and you wont agree with it, it wont change your mind. But you could read 1 single article that backs your theory, and you will defend that article to your death...
(THIS ISNT AIMED AT ANYBODY)
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if it was so easy to add muscle and lose fat then why aren't we all walking around shredded with 10% body fat..????
i love how people think that this is something that is so easy to do …besides the fact that it is against physics...
Lol, can't see where I wrote that it was easy?
those that do a 'recomp' typically eat at slightly under maintenance so they are still in a deficit, so the basic "energy" principles still apply.
So now you're saying that you can gain muscle (a key element of recomping) when in a deficit?
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No change in weight, size, or inches in eight weeks mean you've been spinning your wheels for 8 weeks. No fat loss or muscle gain or you'd have seen something change. Check your diet and get on a professionally designed lifting program.0
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WolverhamptonFitness wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Liftng4Lis wrote: »First, WTG on your loss, awesome. Second with the exception of newbie gains, its very difficult for a woman to gain muscle and not possible while in a deficit. Third, muscle does NOT weigh more than fat, its denser than fat therefore a pound of muscle takes up less room than a pound of fat. THEY WEIGH THE SAME. Finally, if you just began an exercise program, you're likely retaining water, which is normal as the muscle repairs.
Muscle is not denser than fat. If you put the fat at the bottom of Mariana Trench and the muscle into a vacuum then fat is denser. Density is not absolute. Water is more dense than water, if you boil one and freeze the other.
Sorry for double post... but really? like REALLY? why would you go out your way to post this irrelivant information.
a Desk is more dense than a desk, if one is ground into sawdust and the other stays as a desk... get real.
Because it makes as much sense as saying "a pound of fat weighs the same as a pound of muscle so muscle and fat weighs the same." I just hate it when the umpteenth person says that.0 -
Do we really need to spin every thread into one of the major moronic debates that have been beat to death?
OP.
Do you measure your figure? You could be losing fat where you dont want/expect thus making your clothes seem the same
Did you change your calories when you started lifting? Have you been diligent the last 8 weeks? Are you sure you didnt give yourself a healthy diet break at maitenance after adding your lifting regimen cuz you felt you deserved a break (and rightfully so)
I bet you know the answer to your question, and to be honest, we dont have enough information to anything besides speculate OR derail this thread with stupid debated about deficits/surplus or by stating that a pound is a pound is a pound. Nobodycares what a pound is! It's trivial and irrelevant.0 -
I'm in the same boat as the OP. I feel great and I have been working with a trainer lifting weights along with finishing the Couch to 5k and now I am on the 10k trainer. I haven't dropped a pound. In fact, I have gained 3. I lost almost 60 pounds last year through doing cardio alone (mostly zumba). Now I am trying to get the last 40 off. But when I go back and look at my daily intake I am 100% sure part of my reason for gaining is that all along I have never counted my morning coffee in my daily calories. I add cream to it and a little sugar. That crap adds up! So starting yesterday I decided to count every single thing I put in my mouth and hopefully that will keep me better on track.0
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yeah, I would say there is information missing. If something doesnt seem to make sense, then you are almost always missing/not considering information. I can usually account for lack of weight loss to diet if all other things remain equal (i,e, workouts and sleep)0
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I hope this doesn't get lost in all the argument...but I'd like to say how important it is to drink enough water. It sounds like we are at a similar place in our fitness journeys. I can definitely say from personal observation that these things happen when I make it a point to drink at least 56 oz of plain water in a day: my muscles feel less sore the day after I lift, my weight number doesn't fluctuate in the up direction as much, and I pee A LOT!
LOL.
I've lost 4 lbs over the last 6 weeks....gone down one pant size and those are feeling comfortable, almost loose, now too.
Good luck! Keep up the great work!0 -
o0o0o0o0oo0k
So after all these lovely posts I have decided that I am awesome and everyone else is crazy
But I do love to watch you all fight.. so0o0o00o0o0o0o0 maybe the next question I should ask is if I can spot reduce?
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Don't look to me for forgiveness, talk to the OP, who you were disrespectful to, and then feigned concern.WolverhamptonFitness wrote: »WolverhamptonFitness wrote: »Yeah, I never think its fair to say noobie gains count!!
They do. Making a statement like that derides the effort newbies are putting in. Well done.
oHHHHHH your one of them people... Yes I offended the entire world (well all the "newbies") in it by stating that I dont think its "FAIR" to say them gains count... forgive me for my opinion!
Look, we get it, you're brocool dom. It's totally cool when brocool to talk down and deride the new lifters. Let's go pound some muscle milk.
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WolverhamptonFitness wrote: »and how everyone suddenly becomes an expert on the situation, yet there on here not hitting there own goals.
and how the newbie dude with 58 pounds to go IS the expert. lulz.0 -
stevencloser wrote: »
Muscle is not denser than fat. If you put the fat at the bottom of Mariana Trench and the muscle into a vacuum then fat is denser. Density is not absolute. Water is more dense than water, if you boil one and freeze the other.
That's needlessly pedantic. On a living human being, muscle is going to be denser than fat.
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http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/adding-muscle-while-losing-fat-qa.html/
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/training/weight-training-for-fat-loss-part-1.html/
http://body-improvements.com/2013/09/04/can-you-build-muscle-and-lose-fat-at-the-same-time/
http://body-improvements.com/2012/08/22/qa-how-can-i-go-about-building-some-muscle/
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/adding-muscle-while-losing-fat-qa.html/0 -
I have also been trying to loose fat but don't want to loose muscle and in fact, have gained muscle on a deficit. I've been on a physician supervised plan and been working with an on-line personal trainer to guide my workouts and had a body fat analysis done at the beginning, at 4 months and I'll have another in a couple weeks. I'll share some bullet points on what I've learned.
5 pounds of fat is approximately the size of a football (American). 5 pounds of muscle is about the size of a 6" hoagie roll. And it takes a LOT of work to gain enough muscle to impact the scale.
To gain muscle at a deficit, getting enough protein is essential. If you know your body fat percentage (NOT BMI - that's different) then you know the % of your weight that is lean (non-fat). You need approximately 1gram of protein per pound of LEAN weight. No less than .85g, no more than 1.2g for most people (i.e. not body builders). Track your food - you have to be able to support the muscle gain nutritionally or you are fighting an uphill battle.
Do your strength training before your cardio. You want to use the sugar in your bloodstream and muscles to fuel the workout. Alternate upper body/lower body twice a week. I added a 5th day for abs and back.
Now do your cardio. I found on leg day I couldn't go as fast on treadmill/elliptical/etc. but I still put in my time. 30 minutes at least. Now you are burning fat because your body used up all of the available blood sugar.
Eat 3-6 meals per day, staying within your targeted calorie deficit. I found that having a cheat day or two where I broke even with my calories was most helpful - it was as if my body were saying "ahhh she isn't going to starve us indefinitely - I can let go of this now".
To make sure I was estimating calorie burn as closely as possible, I wear a Body Media armband 24/7 (minus showers) which is 95% accurate in estimating calorie burn - more than fitbit and those others that only use the accelerometer. I link it to MFP because I like the food database here better - much more info. Now I know both what is going in (MFP) and what is going out (Body Media). I am for a 500-800 calorie deficit. No more than that. I have learned I burn 2000/day when I don't exercise; 2300 when I do 30 min of cardio and 30 weight training.
I have lost 52 pounds of fat since March 7th and I have gained a two pounds of muscle.0
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