going to try JUDDD starting next week

La5Vega5Girl

i'm not going to bore you with *all* the details of my life over the past 2 years, but let's just say that i got pregnant, lost the baby in my 2nd trimester due to chromosomal abnormalities, gained 25 pounds and have yet to lose it. my body has almost literally fallen apart since that pregnancy (it was my 7th)

i am trying to so hard to lose weight and it's just not coming off. i have counted calories, done a low-carb keto diet (lost some but then gained 5 lbs on top of my previous weight) - you name it. i am an intermittent faster (have been for a long time) and came across JUDDD in a post where someone replied to me, so i think i am going to try it starting next Monday.

for anyone who has done it, for how long should i give this to work? i'm thinking a full month?

TFS any information about JUDDD and your experience.

***also posted on the board of food & nutrition***

WalkingAlong

I really like it. I'd say give it a month before deciding. The book says the first few weeks are the toughest, I think.

kommodevaran

Isn't this the same as the 5:2 diet?

La5Vega5Girl

kommodevaran wrote: »

Isn't this the same as the 5:2 diet?

i don't know? perhaps? it's an every-other-day diet where you tailor your calories differently on different days. i need SOMETHING!

La5Vega5Girl

WalkingAlong wrote: »

I really like it. I'd say give it a month before deciding. The book says the first few weeks are the toughest, I think.

should i get the book for sure? i have read some things online but can get the book at the library or buy for my kindle if necessary.

baconslave

I have a friend who has been doing the JUDDD for awhile. I'll PM her with the link to your thread.

La5Vega5Girl

baconslave wrote: »

I have a friend who has been doing the JUDDD for awhile. I'll PM her with the link to your thread.

thanks

LeonCX

The low carb friends website has a forum on it. It seems to have a pretty low long term success rate. Being famished every other day just doesn't sound like a whole lot of fun, but I hope you succeed.

PatchEFog

Hi

I'm baconslave's friend. I've been doing JUDDD (or really alternate day fasting akin to JUDDD) along with keto since 3/25 of this year. I've lost 66.6 pound altogether.

I didn't buy the Johnson book, but my understanding is that it was helpful. There's so much information out there that I didn't bother. Also, Dr. Varady's book is also popular, but I've not read it.
Johnson's calculator uses the Harris-Benedict equation for BMR while 5:2 uses the Mifflin-St. Jeor equation for BMR. I found the Mifflin-St. Jeor to be more like how I burn calories, and before I'd even looked at the 5:2 site, I'd developed my own calculator.

I was doing fasting days (DD for down day) on Tue/Thu/Sat and feeding days (UD for up day) on Sun/Mon/Wed/Fri. This week, I'd changed my macros a bit and started true alternate day fasting (Sun UD, Mon DD, Tue UD, Wed DD, Thu UD, Fri DD.... etc....)
It's really whatever fits your schedule.

I might also encourage you to look up a good (and active) alternate day fasting group on Facebook for additional information and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/alternatedayfasting/

Send me a friend request if you wish. I seem to have several friends who are very fasting and keto friendly if you're interested.

baconslave

Keto! W00T!!!
Thanks, Patchy!

WalkingAlong

kommodevaran wrote: »

Isn't this the same as the 5:2 diet?

5:2 is a watered down version. JUDDD is alternating days of 500 calories (or 20% of maintenance, if you want to be a diehard) with days of maintenance level or unrestricted eating. You can do fewer days per week if it's too tough or doesn't work with your life. I've done it the past 7 weeks.

The books are good. Your library probably has one or two. You can get most of the info from the web. I read the Johnson (JUDDD) and Mosley (5:2) books and will read the Krista Farady one as soon as I finish this other book I'm reading.

davert123

not sure if it works or not but after doing a little research into the supposed action of the diet, it is sketchy to say the least. from what I can tell (please correct me if I am wrong) it is based on the activation of the sirt1 gene. - this is dubious. The sirt1 gene action is not activated or deactivated, it appears to be down graded in insulin resistant cells. If you cells are not insulin resistant that the diet won't do anything, if they are then it still may not do anything because there is no research I can see to back up the brodocs opinion that starving yourself will knock an insulin resistant cell back to normal (although there is some evidence that short sharp shock diets can help insulin processing the mechanism is still not fully understood). Even if there is an effect on the cell there is no research on how quickly the genes action switches on. The biggest problem though is that the genes action is undetermined in humans, the skinny gene seems just a way to make people believe him and give him their money. Sorry . If I am wrong in any of this please post back and correct me - I would need peer reviewed papers to change my mind but there may be some out there :-)

Sam_I_Am77

The 500 calories and down days sounds excessive and the fact that a supplement is being on the front page is questionable as well. Do yourself a favor, do some research on rapid fat loss, matabolic adaptation, and body-fat overshooting (this is a big one). Extreme caloric deficits are not good. Granted it is balanced between very high days and almost looks like a quasi body re-comp strategy, but this seems like a bit much. You always try and lose weight on as many calories as possible. Something like 80% of people that lose weight rapidly gain it back and a small percentage of those people experience body-fat overshooting, meaning they gain back more weight than they lost in the first place.

WalkingAlong

Krista Varady, PhD, is considered the authority and has published many papers on it, though I don't know if she focuses on sirt1 like Johnson does. Mosley doesn't, he talks more about IGF1, or maybe it's the same, I don't know. I'd trust Varady more, given her background. Johnson is a plastic surgeon, Mosley is a journalist with a medical degree.

I don't care if it's got secret genetic or insulin benefits or not. I find the routine an easier way to meet a weekly calorie goal. I don't mind a day of vegetable soup and tiny meals to have pizza and beer the next day. It's no more 'sketchy' than any other IF regimen, I figure.

La5Vega5Girl

PatchEFog wrote: »

Hi

I'm baconslave's friend. I've been doing JUDDD (or really alternate day fasting akin to JUDDD) along with keto since 3/25 of this year. I've lost 66.6 pound altogether.

I didn't buy the Johnson book, but my understanding is that it was helpful. There's so much information out there that I didn't bother. Also, Dr. Varady's book is also popular, but I've not read it.
Johnson's calculator uses the Harris-Benedict equation for BMR while 5:2 uses the Mifflin-St. Jeor equation for BMR. I found the Mifflin-St. Jeor to be more like how I burn calories, and before I'd even looked at the 5:2 site, I'd developed my own calculator.

I was doing fasting days (DD for down day) on Tue/Thu/Sat and feeding days (UD for up day) on Sun/Mon/Wed/Fri. This week, I'd changed my macros a bit and started true alternate day fasting (Sun UD, Mon DD, Tue UD, Wed DD, Thu UD, Fri DD.... etc....)
It's really whatever fits your schedule.

I might also encourage you to look up a good (and active) alternate day fasting group on Facebook for additional information and support: https://www.facebook.com/groups/alternatedayfasting/

Send me a friend request if you wish. I seem to have several friends who are very fasting and keto friendly if you're interested.

thanks so much for this info. i really appreciate your input. i have to do something different. i really don't care how "difficult" it is - i was at my goal weight before i got pregnant and for some reason, i am just STUCK. i will lose about 5 lbs, but then gain it back plus more. i am in process of finding out exactly what is going on with my throid (have been to 2 dr's in one week, 3 in the past month!) hope to get results from additional blood work next week. in the meantime, i need to FEEL like i am DOING something PROACTIVE.

La5Vega5Girl

WalkingAlong wrote: »

Krista Varady, PhD, is considered the authority and has published many papers on it, though I don't know if she focuses on sirt1 like Johnson does. Mosley doesn't, he talks more about IGF1, or maybe it's the same, I don't know. I'd trust Varady more, given her background. Johnson is a plastic surgeon, Mosley is a journalist with a medical degree.

I don't care if it's got secret genetic or insulin benefits or not. I find the routine an easier way to meet a weekly calorie goal. I don't mind a day of vegetable soup and tiny meals to have pizza and beer the next day. It's no more 'sketchy' than any other IF regimen, I figure.

since i already do 18:6 I.F. i am familiar with fasting to some degree. i have BPD and the fasting actually HELPS ME stay balanced emotionally and keeps my meds working VERY WELL> i am only giving my opinion, and i certainly do not have any degrees or know any of the medical terminology, i only know what works for me. even though my weight isn't where i want it to be, psychologically i am healthier than i've ever been.

i don't know anything about genetics or why/how any of it works, as long as it does. it certainly can't hurt to try. i have very high IgE levels and working on finding out more about the autoimmune thyroid disorder i have, and i thought JUDDD would be a great place to start with losing weight.

La5Vega5Girl

QUESTION: when the mifflin st. jeor gives you the calories to eat per day, then do you "eat back" your exercise calories, thus eating more than the amount given? (ex: if it estimates i need to eat 1500 calories to lose 1 lb/week, then i exercise and burn 100 calories, do i then eat 1600 calories?)

Sam_I_Am77

WalkingAlong wrote: »

Krista Varady, PhD, is considered the authority and has published many papers on it, though I don't know if she focuses on sirt1 like Johnson does. Mosley doesn't, he talks more about IGF1, or maybe it's the same, I don't know. I'd trust Varady more, given her background. Johnson is a plastic surgeon, Mosley is a journalist with a medical degree.

I don't care if it's got secret genetic or insulin benefits or not. I find the routine an easier way to meet a weekly calorie goal. I don't mind a day of vegetable soup and tiny meals to have pizza and beer the next day. It's no more 'sketchy' than any other IF regimen, I figure.

Yes, the results were promising but two comments based on what I've read of the research.

1. The actual research was for 8 weeks. We don't know what happened to the participants 6 to 12 months out.

2. The study where they compared Alternate day fasting between higher fat / low carb and alternate day fasting low fat, they didn't have a control group. The study should have compared those two groups with a group that was on a more traditional calorie restriction. That's the only way to get true results.

3. A 3rd study I read had a Control group but the control group was not on any weight loss program, they could eat whatever they want. Obviously the test group is going to lose more weight than the Control group. Research looks for results not a self-fulfilling prophecy. So you have a test group that is giving structured meals in a clinical setting for the purpose of losing weight and the a group of test subjects that were no given the same structured meals and could eat whatever they hell they want. Does that sound like a good comparison to you? The 2nd study I read would have been good if they had a more solid control group.

There's a saying that says "You can't manage what you don't measure." None of the studies I read measure the ADF to another weight-loss plan. How do you they know that an ADF plan is any better or worse than something else that isn't as extreme? One study even concluded in saying they need to a larger study to make an conclusive findings.

To be diplomatic here, there seems like there could be promise but is such a plan better than anything else? Is it going to get you where you want faster? Will you keep the weight off long-term? Who knows, there doesn't appear to be enough information to answer these questions yet. It does sound like an interesting concept though.

WalkingAlong

I'm not sure where you're getting the '1500 for a lb. a week' from. That sounds like a 7-day eating level. Or it from the calculator here?
http://www.johnsonupdaydowndaydiet.com/html/how-to-do-the-diet.html

Basically I think you can alternate days of 500 (or 20% of maintenance, if you feel disciplined) with days of maintenance level or more or 'hunger-directed eating' (without logging). Experiment a little.

You can 'eat back' exercise calories, if you want. If you're a believer in the sirt1 thing, he thinks it gets activated from being close to the 20%, though, I think, at least the first few weeks. Not sure I buy in to that part (sirt1). 500 is challenging enough, I think.

Sam_I_Am77

La5Vega5Girl wrote: »

QUESTION: when the mifflin st. jeor gives you the calories to eat per day, then do you "eat back" your exercise calories, thus eating more than the amount given? (ex: if it estimates i need to eat 1500 calories to lose 1 lb/week, then i exercise and burn 100 calories, do i then eat 1600 calories?)

No, you do not "eat-back" exercise calories with that calculation. I believe the calc that requires you to eat-back exercise calories is "NEAT". Either waythe Mifflin model is better. Figure it this way...
- calculating calorie requirements is an estimation
- calories in your food is an estimation
- calorie burn is an estimation

Minimize the variables you can't control and use a formula that doesn't require you to eat-back exercise calories. HRM's can be off by 25%, seems to risky and too stressful to have not only measure and track your food, but also measure and track your exercise too?

La5Vega5Girl

WalkingAlong wrote: »

I'm not sure where you're getting the '1500 for a lb. a week' from. That sounds like a 7-day eating level. Or it from the calculator here?
http://www.johnsonupdaydowndaydiet.com/html/how-to-do-the-diet.html

Basically I think you can alternate days of 500 (or 20% of maintenance, if you feel disciplined) with days of maintenance level or more or 'hunger-directed eating' (without logging). Experiment a little.

You can 'eat back' exercise calories, if you want. If you're a believer in the sirt1 thing, he thinks it gets activated from being close to the 20%, though, I think, at least the first few weeks. Not sure I buy in to that part (sirt1). 500 is challenging enough, I think.

i was giving an example, i hadn't done my calculations to see what my calorie goal should be. i was just wondering about eating back exercise cals

La5Vega5Girl

sorry for so many questions. on UP days, do you eat all the way to your calorie goal, or do you cut it back? i found one website that said to shave-off 500 calories from your daily goal on UD's and then eat 500 total on your DD's.

i did my calculations and my UD's total is 2108, so my DD's would either be 420 or 500 depending on if i go with 500 or 20%. if i take-off 500 from my UD's, then i would eat 500 one day, then 1608 the next, 500 the next, then 1608 again. by week's end, i should have a deficit of close to 7000 calories which would be 2 lbs/week. that seems a little extreme...perhaps sticking to the whole 2108 on UD's, that would be 4824 calorie deficit/week.

SORRY for the ?s

WalkingAlong

No, you don't shave 500 off your up days. You might want to read one of the books or at least the web site.

In general, "eating back" is a matter of deciding what you want more-- more food or faster weight loss. There is no right answer or magic formula.

La5Vega5Girl

WalkingAlong wrote: »

No, you don't shave 500 off your up days. You might want to read one of the books or at least the web site.

In general, "eating back" is a matter of deciding what you want more-- more food or faster weight loss. There is no right answer or magic formula.

ok, i re-read and that taking-off 500 was for something else! thank you so much for your help and answering all my *stupid* questions. i truly appreciate it. i am starting on monday. i am not going to eat-back my exercise cals for right now to see how i do. i am a rather intense heavy lifter, so i might end-up having to eat some of them back on days i do my weight-lifting. again, thank you! :flowerforyou:

La5Vega5Girl

oh and by the way, i had NO IDEA about not posting on more than one board - SO SORRY! i didn't get any responses at all on the food & nutrition board, so i thought it would be better suited here. i should have deleted the post on the other board first! won't happen again!

Shewolfgurl

I am new to MFP and considering JUDDD.. I've read many threads today and I have to say that this has been the most informative. Thanks to all for sharing info and resources!! I plan to start on Nov 4th (it's a timing thing.. lol) But I want to be well educated by then. I've done this in the past and remember being successful for a short time.. can't remember why I side-tracked but most of us have been there right? And thanks to La5Vega5Girl for the OP.

WalkingAlong

Shewolfgurl- There is a lot of good info at the lowcarbfriends/juddd forum. Or PM me.

I must've had Sam_I_Am on ignore because I never saw his comments here before. I don't know what research he's referring to but Varady's published a lot on it, not one 8-week study with no control group or comparison to non-ADF dieting.

Here are some reviews of her book.
http://www.amazon.com/The-Every-Other-Day-Diet-That-Weight/dp/1401324932

La5Vega5Girl

Shewolfgurl wrote: »

I am new to MFP and considering JUDDD.. I've read many threads today and I have to say that this has been the most informative. Thanks to all for sharing info and resources!! I plan to start on Nov 4th (it's a timing thing.. lol) But I want to be well educated by then. I've done this in the past and remember being successful for a short time.. can't remember why I side-tracked but most of us have been there right? And thanks to La5Vega5Girl for the OP.

i accepted your friend request
i start today, we'll see how it goes! i plan to log my feelings, etc on my home page so feel free to follow. nov 4 is my bday!! nice day for me - turning 44 on the 4th in '14. LOVE all those 4's!!!

La5Vega5Girl

Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »

To be diplomatic here, there seems like there could be promise but is such a plan better than anything else? Is it going to get you where you want faster? Will you keep the weight off long-term? Who knows, there doesn't appear to be enough information to answer these questions yet. It does sound like an interesting concept though.

in answer to your question, i think there most definitely can be such a thing as one plan being better than another. it depends on the person. some people can lose weight with PLAN "ABC" and others do not, while someone else might lose with PLAN "XYZ."

will i keep the weight off long-term?
there is no way to know that without living a very long time and seeing! i lost a significant amount of weight before using another method and gained it back, so it seems to me that the method of weight loss may having nothing to do with maintenance.

no, there isn't enough information to answer these questions, but it has nothing to do with the method. it has to do with the individuals and time itself. i am giving it a try because i am stalled and i need a kick-start. if it doesn't work, i will try something else.

baconslave

La5Vega5Girl wrote: »

Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »

To be diplomatic here, there seems like there could be promise but is such a plan better than anything else? Is it going to get you where you want faster? Will you keep the weight off long-term? Who knows, there doesn't appear to be enough information to answer these questions yet. It does sound like an interesting concept though.

in answer to your question, i think there most definitely can be such a thing as one plan being better than another. it depends on the person. some people can lose weight with PLAN "ABC" and others do not, while someone else might lose with PLAN "XYZ."

will i keep the weight off long-term?
there is no way to know that without living a very long time and seeing! i lost a significant amount of weight before using another method and gained it back, so it seems to me that the method of weight loss may having nothing to do with maintenance.

no, there isn't enough information to answer these questions, but it has nothing to do with the method. it has to do with the individuals and time itself. i am giving it a try because i am stalled and i need a kick-start. if it doesn't work, i will try something else.

The method of weight loss has NOTHING to do with maintenance. You can switch to another plan altogether for maintenance. The question is sustainability for the individual. That is a personal issue. People gain back the weight on every diet there is. And every maintenance plan there is. Failing to plan (as in have a maintenance plan at the get-go) is planning to fail. Whatever the maintenance plan, if it is not sustainable to the individual, they will gain back the weight. So whatever your diet plan is, if it isn't working, try something else. And if your maintenance plan isn't working, you can try something else. It isn't the diet that fails, it is the individual, in most cases. And that's not casting dispersions on the character of humans, it's recognizing that they aren't flawless. If they can't live with it, they won't stay on it, and it won't work.

The entire weightloss biz is about finding which variables add up to your perfect personal formula. That takes experimentation and observation. OP, I think you've got the right attitude going into it. I hope this is THE PLAN that gets you to maintenance, and that you find a sustainable plan for you.

La5Vega5Girl

Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »

The 500 calories and down days sounds excessive and the fact that a supplement is being on the front page is questionable as well. Do yourself a favor, do some research on rapid fat loss, matabolic adaptation, and body-fat overshooting (this is a big one). Extreme caloric deficits are not good. Granted it is balanced between very high days and almost looks like a quasi body re-comp strategy, but this seems like a bit much. You always try and lose weight on as many calories as possible. Something like 80% of people that lose weight rapidly gain it back and a small percentage of those people experience body-fat overshooting, meaning they gain back more weight than they lost in the first place.

i actually just read a study to the opposite which showed that the majority of the people in their study who lost weight quickly actually kept it off longer and lost more overall. again, it depends on the person. i am not worried so much about genes, turning off and/or on, etc. and i do not think this is considered an "extreme caloric deficit" because in the end, i will only be in a deficit of about 3500 calories per week, which is what most people aim for when losing 1 lb/week.