Food addiction, Over eating is very similar to Alcoholism and other addictions..
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shellecollins wrote: »Directed at the original poster:
I had this same realization when I went to a meeting with my sister! The steps can fit many outlets in life, it's amazing! I disn't take the time to read all this thread, because quite frankly people that haven't done the research/experienced the illness of addiction don't understand. So many times the addict wants to stop and for whatever multitude of reasons, a majority of the time has nothing to do with "laziness or lack of self control". I'm glad to see someone else had this realization! Hey- it works it you work it!!
I did want to get back to the OP. The topic of addiction aside, I think the 12 steps can help people in other areas. I have a friend doing OA who swears by it. I am glad you found something that could help or you could relate to.
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That's weird because I eat all those things and do very well. I even have a group on here dedicated to ice cream, cookies, cakes etc and we pretty much all enjoy it and maintain a proper outlook on our goals.emmabanks87 wrote: »
What exactly would be considered crap?emmabanks87 wrote: »emmabanks87 wrote: »I dont care what anyone says. overeating, stuffing your face, binge eating, emotional eating or whatever you call it, is an ADDICTION!!! when you love food and you are so determined to lose weight and get those abs you have always dreamt of....you need WILLPOWER! sometimes you can fight the urge to raid the biscuit tin or whatever is your vice but sadly other times, you have a voice in your head coming with all sorts of innocent reasons why you should give in!
I have certain times I need to eat during the day and seriously if for whatever reason I can't boy do I get angry and in such a crabby mood!!!! lol
The only difference between alcohol/drugs/smoking and food is, you can cut out drugs/alcohol and smoking, you dont need it!! I used to love alcohol but now I gave it the heave ho years ago! but you NEED FOOD to live. so much harder I think! cant cut food out of your life!!!
Yup well you keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better.
I love food...but I wanted it bad enough...
As I said before when you get physically ill, have convuslions etc because you can't have your cookie than I will believe it's an addiction.
As for the mood swings sounds like a petulant teenager who is told no.
err im 27 thanks!! I meant my body is set into a certain routine when I like to eat (healthy meals, not crap) but if for whatever reason, boyfriend is late is a classic!! I get p***ed off because my blood sugar is low and my body is CRAVING food!!!
wont bother you with my situation but put it this way, I need to change my body in order to get the life ive always dreamt of, if not I will lose everything....even with that in my head, i still mess up my diet with overeating! ive had a lot of slip ups.
Besides an addiction is not a text book thing.....what about sex addicts????? I wonder if they get convuslions if they dont get their 'fix'??? and what about hoarders?? people who are 'addicted' to keeping there stuff??
all kinds of addictions with different kinds of reactions that you get when you cut it out
well you know, cookies, cakes, ice cream etc. only said that as i was being accused of acting like a teenager who got crabby when her mummy and daddy told her she cant have a cookie! which isnt the case!
Weird.
sigh, wasnt talking about WEIGHT LOSS in that post!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! please reread my o.p on it and for the record, I LOVE love love cake, cookies, doughnuts, pancakes, cheesecake, ice cream, muffins, cupcakes and anything else thats crammed full of sugar/fat!!! dont care what anyone says....thats my drug!!! hum, group dedicated to all that?? my kind of group!! lol0 -
Sezxystef and yoovie make out, but in the morning decide they should just stay friends.
Also, The Magician leaves Atlanta.0 -
With alcoholism, you are allowed to remove every shred of it from your home.
With food addiction, you have to keep it in your home, right there.
How is that not tougher?
How, also, is tougher not subjective?
But isn't food addiction kind of the same as what you're saying? I mean, it's not all food that people claim they are addicted to, it's just 'trigger' foods. You never hear someone say "Dude, I'm so addicted to broccoli, I just can't stop eating it!" It's only ever with foods deemed 'bad' or 'unhealthy' And those foods, most certainly, can be forever removed from the home, just like alcohol.0 -
For substance abuse, you go through the physical withdrawals and hopefully work through the emotional component that made you turn to the substance to begin with. You are physically addicted and part of your body no longer functions the way it is supposed to without the substance, which is why you need more and more of it. For example, heroin co-opts dopamine pathways so your body stops making it's own because it doesn't need to - you have heroin instead. It's one of the many reasons that heroin withdrawals are so awful because you aren't making your own "feel good" neurotransmitter for awhile.
If you have issues with food, there is likely an emotional component to it, but there isn't a physical one. While eating does release dopamine, so does anything that you do that relates to survival (sex, eating, etc.) because you need the neurotransmitter encouragement to do it again and not die. At no point does food cause you to stop making your own dopamine, so there is not a chance that you can ever be addicted in the same way that a heroin addict is, which is why there's been a suggestion towards things such as "behavioral addiction" because no matter what, a physical addiction and a behavioral one are never going to be the same thing.
As a result, I think the disconnect happens when people 1) claim to be addicted to food (right now mostly sugar) in the same way that people are addicted to heroin and 2) claim to go through withdrawals just the same way that someone in rehab for heroin does.
In any event, and I don't mean this in any condescending way, if you truly feel like you are "addicted" to food, stop defending the notion that it's the same thing as heroin and go see a therapist. You're going to get way more help through therapy than posting on the MFP forums.
TL;DR: "Behavioral addiction" might be a thing but it will never be the same thing as a physical addiction, so stop pretending sugar is cocaine and if you feel that out of control concerning food, it's probably time to seek professional help.0 -
emmabanks87 wrote: »
That's weird because I eat all those things and do very well. I even have a group on here dedicated to ice cream, cookies, cakes etc and we pretty much all enjoy it and maintain a proper outlook on our goals.emmabanks87 wrote: »
What exactly would be considered crap?emmabanks87 wrote: »emmabanks87 wrote: »I dont care what anyone says. overeating, stuffing your face, binge eating, emotional eating or whatever you call it, is an ADDICTION!!! when you love food and you are so determined to lose weight and get those abs you have always dreamt of....you need WILLPOWER! sometimes you can fight the urge to raid the biscuit tin or whatever is your vice but sadly other times, you have a voice in your head coming with all sorts of innocent reasons why you should give in!
I have certain times I need to eat during the day and seriously if for whatever reason I can't boy do I get angry and in such a crabby mood!!!! lol
The only difference between alcohol/drugs/smoking and food is, you can cut out drugs/alcohol and smoking, you dont need it!! I used to love alcohol but now I gave it the heave ho years ago! but you NEED FOOD to live. so much harder I think! cant cut food out of your life!!!
Yup well you keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better.
I love food...but I wanted it bad enough...
As I said before when you get physically ill, have convuslions etc because you can't have your cookie than I will believe it's an addiction.
As for the mood swings sounds like a petulant teenager who is told no.
err im 27 thanks!! I meant my body is set into a certain routine when I like to eat (healthy meals, not crap) but if for whatever reason, boyfriend is late is a classic!! I get p***ed off because my blood sugar is low and my body is CRAVING food!!!
wont bother you with my situation but put it this way, I need to change my body in order to get the life ive always dreamt of, if not I will lose everything....even with that in my head, i still mess up my diet with overeating! ive had a lot of slip ups.
Besides an addiction is not a text book thing.....what about sex addicts????? I wonder if they get convuslions if they dont get their 'fix'??? and what about hoarders?? people who are 'addicted' to keeping there stuff??
all kinds of addictions with different kinds of reactions that you get when you cut it out
well you know, cookies, cakes, ice cream etc. only said that as i was being accused of acting like a teenager who got crabby when her mummy and daddy told her she cant have a cookie! which isnt the case!
Weird.
sigh, wasnt talking about WEIGHT LOSS in that post!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! please reread my o.p on it and for the record, I LOVE love love cake, cookies, doughnuts, pancakes, cheesecake, ice cream, muffins, cupcakes and anything else thats crammed full of sugar/fat!!! dont care what anyone says....thats my drug!!! hum, group dedicated to all that?? my kind of group!! lol
Sorry, we're full at the moment.
thats ok, i'll get over it with a bag of cookies I'm sure. cheat day coming up soon. woo hoo!!!
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I didn't read the whole thread so if I am repeating something anyone has said then I apologise. I was a working musician for more than 30 years. I have been clean and sober for 5. I have always had a battle with my weight. ALL of the 12 steps apply to food addiction. And, no, you can't quit eating. This is true. That makes it harder. But all of the tools I learned to use to help me maintain my sobriety work very well to keep me on track with this lifestyle change. It may seem like some don't apply. Like apologising to those that you have hurt through the actions you took when you were still using. But even that applies. I apologised to everyone around me who was worried about me when I weighed over 200lbs. It ended up being one of the best things I could have done. More people were worried than I had first imagined.0
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Found an interesting article on this actually from here
http://eating-disorders.org.uk/information/compulsive-overeating-binge-eating-disorder/
As I do believe that the phsycology behind over eating is important...
I still say so it's not an addiction...as does the organization above for many of the reasons that people claim it's tougher...here is an quote from the above page...
Food can feel like an addiction, a desire to eat something that is forbidden; that will make you feel better in the short term even though it may harm your health and your weight in the long term. Both addicts and overeaters refer to preoccupation with the “substance”, the sense of craving for particular foods, giving in, and not being able to stop when you have had a reasonable amount. Both addicts and overeaters talk of repeated attempts to give up “tomorrow”. Like the traditional addictions to alcohol and drugs, compulsive eating can interfere with your life and cost a great deal of money and remorse.
and this part...
So, addictions and compulsive overeating share some features but at the NCFED we firmly believe that it isn’t helpful to think of compulsive eating as the same as, for example, alcoholism because we can live without alcohol but we cannot live without food. We do not like to think of people as addicts and we can treat compulsive eating effectively.
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emmabanks87 wrote: »its easier to cut something out completely then to learn to have less of it
Not necessarily. I don't overeat steak or potatoes or ice cream or butter, etc. anymore, and haven't cut out any of those foods. Some people find it easier to cut out items that they find triggering, at least for a while, but it's certainly not always easier to cut out things.
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sezxystef....ok please dont get mad at me when I say this but I get the impression that in your eyes drink and drugs are the only thing classed as 'addictions'?
I dont know about anyone else but surely an addiction is just as much a mental health issue like 'overeating' as its all to do with the mind. ok, lets take food anyway for a sec (again please no one have a go ) but how about someone who is 'addicted' to gambling, who does it so much that he/she has lost everything.....his/her partner, the house and the kids... BUT still gambles. but why???? surely that will be enough to tell him/her to give it up??? thats because its an ADDICTION!!!!!
I really do believe you can be addicted to other things apart from drugs and alcohol but the effects, side effects and the feelings you get when trying to stop your addiction are different
http://thejourneynet.org/ForgivenessJustice2/NeedinessMe/PointsofDialogue/TwentyFourExamplesofAddictions/tabid/229/Default.aspx
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/info/addiction/
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lemurcat12 wrote: »emmabanks87 wrote: »its easier to cut something out completely then to learn to have less of it
Not necessarily. I don't overeat steak or potatoes or ice cream or butter, etc. anymore, and haven't cut out any of those foods. Some people find it easier to cut out items that they find triggering, at least for a while, but it's certainly not always easier to cut out things.
Thats because you have good willpower wish I did!! im either all or nothing! I myself find it easier to cut it out rather than have a little.....thats my trigger for a binge! lol. but we are all different. 0 -
emmabanks87 wrote: »sezxystef....ok please dont get mad at me when I say this but I get the impression that in your eyes drink and drugs are the only thing classed as 'addictions'?
I dont know about anyone else but surely an addiction is just as much a mental health issue like 'overeating' as its all to do with the mind. ok, lets take food anyway for a sec (again please no one have a go ) but how about someone who is 'addicted' to gambling, who does it so much that he/she has lost everything.....his/her partner, the house and the kids... BUT still gambles. but why???? surely that will be enough to tell him/her to give it up??? thats because its an ADDICTION!!!!!
I really do believe you can be addicted to other things apart from drugs and alcohol but the effects, side effects and the feelings you get when trying to stop your addiction are different
http://thejourneynet.org/ForgivenessJustice2/NeedinessMe/PointsofDialogue/TwentyFourExamplesofAddictions/tabid/229/Default.aspx
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/info/addiction/
no anger here...
I believe that at this moment there isn't enough science to prove that food can be addicting partially because food is required to live and as said before you never hear of someone saying they are addicted to broccoli...
At this moment based on anything I have read (including peer review studies) it shows that the pleasure center in the brain is lit up based on reward systems in mice....
At this moment I believe that there is the possibilty that physcological aspect of over eating, gambling, sex, porn, video games can be hard to overcome and I am not diminishing that...but, yes there is a but...to say it's like being addicted to alcohol or drugs or harder to overcome, diminishes those addictions and that is where my issue is.
And part of that is because I have family who are/were addicted to many substances and I have those who are/were over eaters...so I have seen both sides...0 -
With alcoholism, you are allowed to remove every shred of it from your home.
With food addiction, you have to keep it in your home, right there.
How is that not tougher?
How, also, is tougher not subjective?
But isn't food addiction kind of the same as what you're saying? I mean, it's not all food that people claim they are addicted to, it's just 'trigger' foods. You never hear someone say "Dude, I'm so addicted to broccoli, I just can't stop eating it!" It's only ever with foods deemed 'bad' or 'unhealthy' And those foods, most certainly, can be forever removed from the home, just like alcohol.
1. You made me laugh so hard
2. You are 1000% right, I didn't even consider that it was certain types of foods that they may depend on and not food in general. Good call!
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I can't read this study but here is an abstract about overeating and addiction
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25230209
maybe it is more of a behavioral "addiction"
"gambling disorder is now included along SUDs as a behavioral addiction"0 -
emmabanks87 wrote: »sezxystef....ok please dont get mad at me when I say this but I get the impression that in your eyes drink and drugs are the only thing classed as 'addictions'?
I dont know about anyone else but surely an addiction is just as much a mental health issue like 'overeating' as its all to do with the mind. ok, lets take food anyway for a sec (again please no one have a go ) but how about someone who is 'addicted' to gambling, who does it so much that he/she has lost everything.....his/her partner, the house and the kids... BUT still gambles. but why???? surely that will be enough to tell him/her to give it up??? thats because its an ADDICTION!!!!!
I really do believe you can be addicted to other things apart from drugs and alcohol but the effects, side effects and the feelings you get when trying to stop your addiction are different
http://thejourneynet.org/ForgivenessJustice2/NeedinessMe/PointsofDialogue/TwentyFourExamplesofAddictions/tabid/229/Default.aspx
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/info/addiction/
no anger here...
I believe that at this moment there isn't enough science to prove that food can be addicting partially because food is required to live and as said before you never hear of someone saying they are addicted to broccoli...
At this moment based on anything I have read (including peer review studies) it shows that the pleasure center in the brain is lit up based on reward systems in mice....
At this moment I believe that there is the possibilty that physcological aspect of over eating, gambling, sex, porn, video games can be hard to overcome and I am not diminishing that...but, yes there is a but...to say it's like being addicted to alcohol or drugs or harder to overcome, diminishes those addictions and that is where my issue is.
And part of that is because I have family who are/were addicted to many substances and I have those who are/were over eaters...so I have seen both sides...
ok respect what you are saying but another point on the issue....
we all have different goals when it comes to our bodies but there are people out there who are so overweight that basically they have been told if they do not stop overeating they will die, just like smokers and drinkers right? surely being told something like that should be enough to make them stop? but nope people who overeat do not. (not all of course) like any addiction, the idea of dying doesnt stop people from getting their 'fix'
I completely agree with you no such thing of being addicted to broccoli (unless your a guinea pig, mine love it! lol) but surely you have heard of the mice experments on sugar and how tests have shown sugar to be just as addictive as cocaine.
I watched an interesting programme called sugar vs fat. about 2 twins, one doing an all fat diet and one does an all sugar one. it was to show which is the worse and the results were..... sugar alone is not addictive and again fat alone is not addictive but the mix of them together is the foods version of crack cocaine!!! the example they shown of this is.....they had a spoonful of sugar and then cream.....not much alone but then mixed together....yummy!
they also of course did it the same with mice. sugar, meh not interested, butter again boring. but when made to eat cheesecake, they loved it and became addicted
this programme showed that anything thats both high in sugar and fat is addictive
but whoa whoa, before i get an angry mob at my door im not saying you have a slice of cheesecake thats it your a junkie!! all comes down to willpower and the type of person you are. some dont even like it (sigh wish I didnt) but some have got amazing willpower and can just eat it in moderation but others....sadly cannot and will not stop.0 -
Food is an addiction to some. I always tell people that. It may be easy for you to say no to a donut but my behind is sitting there like a crack fiend mentally figuring out how I can buy it and devour it in my car before I get back home. All evidence gone.
It's a struggle every day but if you tell yourself you're worth so much more than the 3 minutes of happiness you get when you ingest that food, the feeling will pass over.0 -
digginDeep wrote: »
Locked, with a stern warning about personal attacks, and a little bit of bi-curiosity, surprisingly.
don't forget the follow up "MFP is mean" thread that OP creates...0 -
Food Addiction is absolutely real and like every other addiction, is a disease of the mind and body. Alcoholics don't simply "enjoy alcohol" and can't stop by willing their desire away. When they have one drink, their brain is sent a signal that says, "GIVE ME MORE!" There is also the mental component where alcoholics have learned to numb their emotions by adding alcohol, so it is the natural "go to" whenever any emotional experience, happy or sad comes up. The same is true for food addicts. There are numerous studies about the way sugar affects the brain and studies show that it is addictive and habit forming as cocaine. The only difference is that awareness of cocaine addiction is widely spread and value laden, while sugar addiction is only now coming to the forefront of social awareness.
Not everyone who is overweight is a food addict. Some people can learn to eat well and stay healthy or lose their weight without it ever coming back on. They are able to have sugar, flour, treats etc with no message to their brain saying "EAT MORE," while those with food addiction, skinny or large, can't stop at just one and obsess about the food until they either consume it or painstakingly manage to direct their attention elsewhere.
Fortunately there is a 12 step program for Food Addicts (foodaddicts.org), which can help lead those who are food addicts to recovery and learn to manage and overcome this disease.
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With alcoholism, you are allowed to remove every shred of it from your home.
With food addiction, you have to keep it in your home, right there.
How is that not tougher?
How, also, is tougher not subjective?
Wrong answer. You dont have to keep mountains of fatty/sugary/high calorie food in your home. Nor do you have to go into the supermarket, physically pick it up, put it in a trolley, take it home, cook/prepare it.... I think you get the picture.0
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