gaining muscle mass vs burning fat
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is it possible to gain muscle mass and burn fat at the same time ive lost 88 pounds since jan and I wanna try n loose like 10 more pounds but mainly I wanna start building muscle and getting definition is it possible to do both or can I only do one?
Unless someone can offer another explanation of why I lost inches while gaining weight I'm going to say yes. It wasn't a lot, 4-5 inches 5-6 lbs overall, over about 4-5 months. But it made a big difference in the shape and tone (yes, I said tone!) of my body.
Does your scale track fluid and poop?0 -
And here I thought I was doing both. I sure wish I was a genetic freak :grumble:0
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Gaining muscle isn't hard? What's your secret because there are a lot of guys out there struggling with this and you'd be a millionaire if you solved it.You build muscle and lose fat at the same time. You have to balance your Protein, Carb and Fat intake. Lift weights and increase you cardio to cut the fat. Gain muscle isn't hard, but gaining lean muscle is what you want.
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For the general population........................this is truth.It is not possible to gain muscle mass and lose fat at the same time. In order to lose fat, your body needs to be in a catabolic state. In order to gain muscle mass, your body needs to be in an anabolic state. This is achieved through proper nutrition, creating the proper caloric surplus or deficit, and proper exercise.
It is possible and recommended to *PRESERVE* your muscle mass while losing fat. Once the fat is gone you will see the muscle you already had more clearly and decide what to do from there. Putting your body in a catabolic state with a caloric deficit and doing intense strength training mixed with proper cardio will get you great results in the fat loss department. Losing fat and gaining muscle at the same time? Doesn't work like that.
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Muscle definition happens with low body fat percentage. So lose body fat.I want to gain muscle definition
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You build muscle and lose fat at the same time. You have to balance your Protein, Carb and Fat intake. Lift weights and increase you cardio to cut the fat. Gainng muscle isn't hard, but gaining lean muscle is what you want.
What the heck is lean muscle?
Gaining muscle isn't as easy as you think either.
If it's easy then you're probably putting on UNlean muscle,and by
That I mean fat.
Exactly....no such thing as lean muscle.
i thought all muscle was lean..is there fat muscle???0 -
A lot of broscience at bodybuilding.com. Not to mention a lot of the males on there are "enhanced" and there's a big difference between that and natural.A great place for those kinds of answers is at Bodybuilding.com. It is a great site for men and women with answers to a zillion different questions. I am starting the live fit series on there right now. It should have all the answers you are looking for.
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The gain more than likely is storage of glycogen and water in the muscle cell. This will increase the size of the cell (just like fat cells getting bigger when they hold more fat), but doesn't necessarily mean that hypertrophy was achieved. Are you on a calorie surplus?It's very possible to do at the same time. My increasing calf and arm muscles and decreasing belly fat prove it.
You are probably just losing arm and lower leg fat along with your tummy fat, allowing the muscle mass you already had to show.
Maybe you need to reread. I am GAINING arm and calf muscle. The measuring tape doesn't lie. At the same time, I am losing belly fat. Again, the measuring tape doesn't lie. I never had fat on my calves or arms to begin with, the definition hasn't changed, but the amount of lean muscle I've built sure has.
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Disagree. Unless the resistance is progressing, then moving the same amount of weight every day wouldn't result in muscle gain. If that were true, then walking mailmen should have humongous legs. I've seen a few with great calves (they walk in San Francisco) but most walking mailmen I've seen have very average quads and hamstrings.This is anecdotal, but I have seen manual laborers in a certain third world country packing a lot of muscle because they lift 50 kg (110 lbs) of rice sacks day in and day out. I can tell you that they can't exactly afford to eat at calorie surplus, yet they are obviously building muscle. My conclusion is that it's possible to gain muscle at a deficit, but it takes much longer time than doing it at a surplus. It takes years for these laborers to get as muscular as they are.
Professional bodybuilders use cut and bulk cycle because they schedule it around competition time. They cut right before they go on stage to increase definition, then they bulk afterward and not worry about a little additional fat that comes with it. They most certainly don't have time for the slow route.
Personally I like the cut and bulk cycle because it's encouraging to see visible results in a short period of time, whether the result sought is less fat or more muscle. It's easier to convince yourself that you're on the right path when you can see some hint of result in as short as 4 weeks.
Now if you're speaking of "muscularity" then that's a depiction of low body fat. Lower the body fat on anyone and they will look more muscular.
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It's very possible to do at the same time. My increasing calf and arm muscles and decreasing belly fat prove it.
You are probably just losing arm and lower leg fat along with your tummy fat, allowing the muscle mass you already had to show.
I'M not an expert, but I think you're wrong about not being able to do both at once. I'm seeing a trainer, and she's got me on heavier and heavier weights, some that I couldn't lift at all at first, so I am getting stronger And guess what, I've still lost almost 6 lbs in two months.0 -
Neuromuscular adaptivity. You can get stronger without adding muscle. A good example is Olympic weight lifters. They compete in weight classes, so gaining or losing weight wouldn't be beneficial to them. So they try to get stronger at their weight by doing negatives, super heavy weight training, band and chain training, etc.I'M not an expert, but I think you're wrong about not being able to do both at once. I'm seeing a trainer, and she's got me on heavier and heavier weights, some that I couldn't lift at all at first, so I am getting stronger And guess what, I've still lost almost 6 lbs in two months.
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is it possible to gain muscle mass and burn fat at the same time ive lost 88 pounds since jan and I wanna try n loose like 10 more pounds but mainly I wanna start building muscle and getting definition is it possible to do both or can I only do one?
Unless someone can offer another explanation of why I lost inches while gaining weight I'm going to say yes. It wasn't a lot, 4-5 inches 5-6 lbs overall, over about 4-5 months. But it made a big difference in the shape and tone (yes, I said tone!) of my body.
Does your scale track fluid and poop?
It tracks fluid (body water), but retaining water means gaining inches not losing them.0 -
You build muscle and lose fat at the same time. You have to balance your Protein, Carb and Fat intake. Lift weights and increase you cardio to cut the fat. Gainng muscle isn't hard, but gaining lean muscle is what you want.
What the heck is lean muscle?
Gaining muscle isn't as easy as you think either.
If it's easy then you're probably putting on UNlean muscle,and by
That I mean fat.
Exactly....no such thing as lean muscle.
i thought all muscle was lean..is there fat muscle???
Isn't there fat muscle? Isn't that why some steaks are more marbled than others?0 -
No its not really possible to do both at the same time. There are a couple of exceptions which have been mentioned already. Even with those exceptions the gain in actually new muscle will be pretty small.
An average male can gain around one pound per month of new muscle mass. This is being male with higher test levels and an optimal diet and training program. If you are older, female, or veteran lifter this will be even less.
People see initial gains in muscle along with swelling due to water storage (which will go away if you stop lifting for a week or two), a reduction in body fat and swear up and down it is possible. I wish it was true but it isnt.
You need to have energy and building materials to add new mass. You can not build something from nothing. You do have stored energy sources on you but for the body to tap into those it has to use up the energy you have ingested first. So the building materials and extra energy never occur at the same time on a calorie deficit. At least not at any scale large enough to synthesis new muscle mass.
Building new mass is a very low priority as well. Maintaining normal body functions, fueling activity and repairing and recovering all take precedence. Using up all energy to fuel those functions first.0 -
I think you don't actually bother to read what I wrote. You keep harping on the concept that you can't create something out of nothing, which is only the case when the body takes NOTHING in, like not eating at all. As long as the body still has food coming in, it can decide what organ it wants to spend the calories on.Who is calculating bmr? It doesn't even matter since we are taking about actual tdee, not average bmr. Please. You are claiming, flat out, that laborers are putting muscle on at an actual deficit. As in, taking in less than tdee. With, I assume, no huge amount of fat reserves to begin with. So according to your logic, this adaptation includes the ability to make more carbon out of nothing, and assemble that carbon into muscle tissue, using less energy than it needs for daily activities.I can tell you that they can't exactly afford to eat at calorie surplus, yet they are obviously building muscle
It is ridiculous on its face. Which is why you can't actually give an answer about where the matter comes from that is winding up as skeletal muscle.
Yes the body can adapt, and no, your straw man doesn't hold up, and I don't see it as a simple machine. I see it as a complex ecosystem consisting of various species, but that still qualifies as a system bound by the laws of thermodynamics, as all energy systems are.
Unless it's something extreme, the body has the capability of stopping a deficit by lowering its energy consumption (metabolism). It sure has the capability to decide that fixing torn muscle is more important for survival than simply keeping fat reserves intact or maintaining the reproductive system.
When people ask whether they can gain muscle while losing fat at the same time, they have fat to lose.
You paint me as if I'm an ignorant racist, while I'm actually referring to my own people, in a term that we don't find offensive. But that's fine, you have demonstrated that you care for nothing other than your narrow point of view.As for using ethnic slurs, I don't care what you do in other languages. You wrote it in English and it's derogatory and most definitely caught my eye. I figured you might not be aware of that, but now you know better. You're welcome.0 -
Disagree. Unless the resistance is progressing, then moving the same amount of weight every day wouldn't result in muscle gain. If that were true, then walking mailmen should have humongous legs. I've seen a few with great calves (they walk in San Francisco) but most walking mailmen I've seen have very average quads and hamstrings.This is anecdotal, but I have seen manual laborers in a certain third world country packing a lot of muscle because they lift 50 kg (110 lbs) of rice sacks day in and day out. I can tell you that they can't exactly afford to eat at calorie surplus, yet they are obviously building muscle. My conclusion is that it's possible to gain muscle at a deficit, but it takes much longer time than doing it at a surplus. It takes years for these laborers to get as muscular as they are.
Professional bodybuilders use cut and bulk cycle because they schedule it around competition time. They cut right before they go on stage to increase definition, then they bulk afterward and not worry about a little additional fat that comes with it. They most certainly don't have time for the slow route.
Personally I like the cut and bulk cycle because it's encouraging to see visible results in a short period of time, whether the result sought is less fat or more muscle. It's easier to convince yourself that you're on the right path when you can see some hint of result in as short as 4 weeks.
Now if you're speaking of "muscularity" then that's a depiction of low body fat. Lower the body fat on anyone and they will look more muscular.
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I should have phrased it better. These people started the profession just as big or small as everyone else in the population. Their job is probably the lowest paying one in society, so they can not afford to eat much. Still, over time they are amassing enough muscle to be bigger than the average guy, even though their muscle growth stops at whatever level is necessary to lug 50kg bags around.0 -
Eat at a 20-25% calorie deficit of your TDEE. Do strength training 3 times a week and do some intervals as well.
Check out BuiltLean.com amazing site that will really help you out. Lots of articles on all the stuff I am saying.
He only wishes to lose 10 pounds more. 20-25% cut is too drastic.0 -
is it possible to gain muscle mass and burn fat at the same time ive lost 88 pounds since jan and I wanna try n loose like 10 more pounds but mainly I wanna start building muscle and getting definition is it possible to do both or can I only do one?
Unless someone can offer another explanation of why I lost inches while gaining weight I'm going to say yes. It wasn't a lot, 4-5 inches 5-6 lbs overall, over about 4-5 months. But it made a big difference in the shape and tone (yes, I said tone!) of my body.
Does your scale track fluid and poop?
It tracks fluid (body water), but retaining water means gaining inches not losing them.
You have a scale that measures your weight in body fluid?
Amazing patent you're sitting on there!
You can lose inches (which is loss of some type of mass) and retain fluid and gain weight.
I routinely swing 5-10lbs in any given week (due 100% to fluid retention and glycogen loading) and it doesn't change my physical size (by much if anything).0 -
is it possible to gain muscle mass and burn fat at the same time ive lost 88 pounds since jan and I wanna try n loose like 10 more pounds but mainly I wanna start building muscle and getting definition is it possible to do both or can I only do one?
Unless someone can offer another explanation of why I lost inches while gaining weight I'm going to say yes. It wasn't a lot, 4-5 inches 5-6 lbs overall, over about 4-5 months. But it made a big difference in the shape and tone (yes, I said tone!) of my body.
Does your scale track fluid and poop?
It tracks fluid (body water), but retaining water means gaining inches not losing them.
You have a scale that measures your weight in body fluid?
Amazing patent you're sitting on there!
You can lose inches (which is loss of some type of mass) and retain fluid and gain weight.
I routinely swing 5-10lbs in any given week (due 100% to fluid retention and glycogen loading) and it doesn't change my physical size (by much if anything).
Um no, it's doesn't measure my weight in water or poop. Why would anyone want that, and how would that work?? Your weight = 18 gallons of water or 63 turds?? :huh:
It's measures my body water as a % of total weight. I'm a 52 yo perimenopausal woman. I've dealt with water retention a little of the years and it always means increased pounds and increased inches for me. While my muscles could be holding water, wouldn't it be unusual for them also not to be larger because of it, and would one expect that to continue for 4-5 months?
However you look at it, water takes up space and doesn't weigh much less than fat.0 -
I can see this as a possibility if it's over a long period of time. The body adapts to the activity it's exposed to, so if the body would end up being for "efficient" for a certain repetitive task, it will try to conform to it.
Disagree. Unless the resistance is progressing, then moving the same amount of weight every day wouldn't result in muscle gain. If that were true, then walking mailmen should have humongous legs. I've seen a few with great calves (they walk in San Francisco) but most walking mailmen I've seen have very average quads and hamstrings.This is anecdotal, but I have seen manual laborers in a certain third world country packing a lot of muscle because they lift 50 kg (110 lbs) of rice sacks day in and day out. I can tell you that they can't exactly afford to eat at calorie surplus, yet they are obviously building muscle. My conclusion is that it's possible to gain muscle at a deficit, but it takes much longer time than doing it at a surplus. It takes years for these laborers to get as muscular as they are.
Professional bodybuilders use cut and bulk cycle because they schedule it around competition time. They cut right before they go on stage to increase definition, then they bulk afterward and not worry about a little additional fat that comes with it. They most certainly don't have time for the slow route.
Personally I like the cut and bulk cycle because it's encouraging to see visible results in a short period of time, whether the result sought is less fat or more muscle. It's easier to convince yourself that you're on the right path when you can see some hint of result in as short as 4 weeks.
Now if you're speaking of "muscularity" then that's a depiction of low body fat. Lower the body fat on anyone and they will look more muscular.
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I should have phrased it better. These people started the profession just as big or small as everyone else in the population. Their job is probably the lowest paying one in society, so they can not afford to eat much. Still, over time they are amassing enough muscle to be bigger than the average guy, even though their muscle growth stops at whatever level is necessary to lug 50kg bags around.
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Disagree. Unless the resistance is progressing, then moving the same amount of weight every day wouldn't result in muscle gain. If that were true, then walking mailmen should have humongous legs. I've seen a few with great calves (they walk in San Francisco) but most walking mailmen I've seen have very average quads and hamstrings.This is anecdotal, but I have seen manual laborers in a certain third world country packing a lot of muscle because they lift 50 kg (110 lbs) of rice sacks day in and day out. I can tell you that they can't exactly afford to eat at calorie surplus, yet they are obviously building muscle. My conclusion is that it's possible to gain muscle at a deficit, but it takes much longer time than doing it at a surplus. It takes years for these laborers to get as muscular as they are.
Professional bodybuilders use cut and bulk cycle because they schedule it around competition time. They cut right before they go on stage to increase definition, then they bulk afterward and not worry about a little additional fat that comes with it. They most certainly don't have time for the slow route.
Personally I like the cut and bulk cycle because it's encouraging to see visible results in a short period of time, whether the result sought is less fat or more muscle. It's easier to convince yourself that you're on the right path when you can see some hint of result in as short as 4 weeks.
Now if you're speaking of "muscularity" then that's a depiction of low body fat. Lower the body fat on anyone and they will look more muscular.
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I should have phrased it better. These people started the profession just as big or small as everyone else in the population. Their job is probably the lowest paying one in society, so they can not afford to eat much. Still, over time they are amassing enough muscle to be bigger than the average guy, even though their muscle growth stops at whatever level is necessary to lug 50kg bags around.
Yes you should have phrased it better, as in included the actual information. I can only read what you write.
If there is a good amount of fat to burn, then as stated already by myself and others on this thread, it is possible to build some muscle, at first, and burn fat at the same time. So in the case of a fat laborer, he may gain some muscle. This is the same newbie gains we all get when we start.
The fact still remains, you can't build muscle unless the carbon is there, stored as fat or ingested as food (the other elements are easier to come by).
Also is still true, that you aren't going to be building much muscle beyond your newbie gains unless you eat a calorie surplus, and that this is more pronounced as your body fat gets lower.
A pretty much the answer is still no, lift to preserve muscle while you cut, not to make gains. alternate between cutting and bulking, or 9 times out of ten you will just spin your wheels. As someone who hit this wall not too long ago (5'9" 165 lbs 15% BF), I am not speaking only theoretically. Just a few months ago I was still growing new muscles, quite visibly, but about a month ago it stopped. I did not suddenly drop my intensity. Now if I want to grow, I need to eat above maintenance, and cutting is going to cost me some muscle as well as fat. Considering where I started, it's not upsetting, but it's definitely a reminder that I'm not a special snowflake.0 -
I am throwing myself into the frying pan for this. No.. You can't gain muscle and lose fat. Its pure science..
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You paint me as if I'm an ignorant racist, while I'm actually referring to my own people, in a term that we don't find offensive. But that's fine, you have demonstrated that you care for nothing other than your narrow point of view.As for using ethnic slurs, I don't care what you do in other languages. You wrote it in English and it's derogatory and most definitely caught my eye. I figured you might not be aware of that, but now you know better. You're welcome.
I apologise in advance for going off topic, but I am confused by this ethnic slur thing. I read the original post, which wasn't edited and yet didn't find an ethnic slur. As to not offend anyone in the future, could you give me a hint as to what the slur was?0 -
A pretty much the answer is still no, lift to preserve muscle while you cut, not to make gains. alternate between cutting and bulking, or 9 times out of ten you will just spin your wheels. As someone who hit this wall not too long ago (5'9" 165 lbs 15% BF), I am not speaking only theoretically. Just a few months ago I was still growing new muscles, quite visibly, but about a month ago it stopped. I did not suddenly drop my intensity. Now if I want to grow, I need to eat above maintenance, and cutting is going to cost me some muscle as well as fat. Considering where I started, it's not upsetting, but it's definitely a reminder that I'm not a special snowflake.
For bulking and cutting, how long would each require. I've been wondering if I've been doing it unintentionally for the past few months. I wasn't trying to lose any more weight and was just concentrating on fitness. Not gaining muscle specifically, just increasing strength and overall fitness. I was following the Turbo Fire schedule plus other strength building exercises.
I wasn't tracking the whole time and my calories were not consistent. Would this cause muscle gain and fat loss if done inconsistently over a 5 month period?0 -
You paint me as if I'm an ignorant racist, while I'm actually referring to my own people, in a term that we don't find offensive. But that's fine, you have demonstrated that you care for nothing other than your narrow point of view.As for using ethnic slurs, I don't care what you do in other languages. You wrote it in English and it's derogatory and most definitely caught my eye. I figured you might not be aware of that, but now you know better. You're welcome.
I apologise in asvance for going off topic, but I am confused by this ethnic slur thing. I read the original post, which wasn't edited and yet didn't find an ethnic slur. As to not offend anyone in the future, could you give me a hint as to what the slur was?
"coolie".. I was hoping we could drop it since whining annoys me (especially whining about being called racist for using racist terminology in ignorance, in absence of any actual charge of deliberate racism), but since you brought it up, it strike me as rather as less malicious than ignorant and in that sense innocent. It didnt seem he was aware of the offensiveness of the word to me. So I did him the favor of pointing out that it isn't ok.
Sites like Wikipedia will give you a good history of the word "coolie", along with an explanation of why it's not ok to say it casually.0 -
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A pretty much the answer is still no, lift to preserve muscle while you cut, not to make gains. alternate between cutting and bulking, or 9 times out of ten you will just spin your wheels. As someone who hit this wall not too long ago (5'9" 165 lbs 15% BF), I am not speaking only theoretically. Just a few months ago I was still growing new muscles, quite visibly, but about a month ago it stopped. I did not suddenly drop my intensity. Now if I want to grow, I need to eat above maintenance, and cutting is going to cost me some muscle as well as fat. Considering where I started, it's not upsetting, but it's definitely a reminder that I'm not a special snowflake.
For bulking and cutting, how long would each require. I've been wondering if I've been doing it unintentionally for the past few months. I wasn't trying to lose any more weight and was just concentrating on fitness. Not gaining muscle specifically, just increasing strength and overall fitness. I was following the Turbo Fire schedule plus other strength building exercises.
I wasn't tracking the whole time and my calories were not consistent. Would this cause muscle gain and fat loss if done inconsistently over a 5 month period?
I dont think there is really any minimum time frame between cycling surplus and deficit. BUT I do think there is a certain amount of time required for the body to transition from a state where it wants to burn fat to a state where it is willing to start adding mass. This could vary person to person depending on length and amount of deficit and surplus. I just dont think it is an on off switch.
What you are talking about is "body recomposition". Basically eating at maintenance and building muscle while in slight surplus and burning fat when under. It was posted already but I will quote it again,"A lot of the approaches advocated for ‘gaining muscle while losing fat’ aren’t very effective. In fact, I’d tend to argue that most people’s attempts to achieve the above results in them simply spinning their wheels, making no progress towards either goal. Because invariably they set up a situation where neither training nor diet is optimized for either fat loss or muscle gain. Calories are too high for fat loss and too low to support muscle gains and outside of that one overfat beginner situation, the physiology simply isn’t going to readily allow what they want to happen to happen."
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/adding-muscle-while-losing-fat-qa.html0 -
You paint me as if I'm an ignorant racist, while I'm actually referring to my own people, in a term that we don't find offensive. But that's fine, you have demonstrated that you care for nothing other than your narrow point of view.As for using ethnic slurs, I don't care what you do in other languages. You wrote it in English and it's derogatory and most definitely caught my eye. I figured you might not be aware of that, but now you know better. You're welcome.
I apologise in asvance for going off topic, but I am confused by this ethnic slur thing. I read the original post, which wasn't edited and yet didn't find an ethnic slur. As to not offend anyone in the future, could you give me a hint as to what the slur was?
"coolie".. I was hoping we could drop it since whining annoys me (especially whining about being called racist for using racist terminology in ignorance, in absence of any actual charge of deliberate racism), but since you brought it up, it strike me as rather as less malicious than ignorant and in that sense innocent. It didnt seem he was aware of the offensiveness of the word to me. So I did him the favor of pointing out that it isn't ok.
Sites like Wikipedia will give you a good history of the word "coolie", along with an explanation of why it's not ok to say it casually.
Thanks for the clarification. I wasn't looking to defend him or attack you for correcting someone or anything like that as I know things can easily come across that way.
I haven't found that word in his post. If you look back at what he said, it actually says manual laborer without having an edit notice posted, so I was truly wondering what the fuss was about.
May here lie the end of of the off topic conversation. 0 -
start lifting
Yup. And see how your body responds.
Read some of this too.
http://wserver.flc.losrios.edu/~willson/fitns304/handouts/cardio.html0 -
I would definitely start the weight training before losing all the weight that you want. I tried it the other way so I know what happened to me. It seemed like when I lost the weight, I actually lost a bit of muscle mass as well. I definitely got weaker. (Couldn't use the same amount of weight as I had previously used in my exercises). I say it's always a good time to tone. The added benefit is you will be able to eat more (with the extra activity). Remember to increase the protein in your diet also. After a while, you will figure it all out by seeing what works for you. Good luck!0
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