Clipless Pedals: Are they really worth it?

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  • chivalryder
    chivalryder Posts: 4,391 Member
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    goiahawks wrote: »
    Thanks for the awesome replies thus far. I ride more for distance and endurance than I do for speed (but I am always trying to get from point A to point B faster). My average rides are 25 - 40 miles with the occasional 70-110. Will clipless pedals help me endurance wise and help to make the ride easier? Please excuse my ignorance, I am just trying to decide if clipless pedals are for me. Thanks!

    Clipless pedals will no help with endurance and will not make the ride easier. The only true benefit they would possibly have in your circumstance would be slightly better aerodynamics and slightly lighter weight, both of which will have a negligible effect on your performance.

    Clipless pedals are only truly worth while in a racing scenario. If you do see a performance increase from running clipless pedals, it would be at most 0.005% improvement. Whereas, the risk of injury increases dramatically.

    They're not worth it.

    Instead, look at getting a large flat pedal with removable spikes and look for some purpose flat pedal shoes which have a stiff sole. You'll get the same level of "foot stuck to pedal" but you won't get your foot removed from your leg if you have an awkward crash, such as getting lightly hit by a car (I have seen it, it's not nice. Since the shoe will only leave the pedal when the foot is rotated, the shoe didn't let go of the pedal, but the bike went in one direction and the rider went in the other). Your knees will thank you because then your legs will work in a more natural motion and won't require extremely careful and precise cleat/seat/pedal set up to prevent repetitive motion injury (this is what happened to me and the reason why I'm not needing to lose weight).

    There really are a lot of reasons not to run clipless, and there aren't any solid reason why you should run clipless.

    One of the worst reasons why people like clipless, and one of the most frequent is the "ability to pull up on the back stroke."

    If you do this, you will slowly separate your knee joint. Your legs are designed to push, not pull. Think about it. If you pull of on your leg, you are effectively pulling apart your knee joint. Also, you cannot exert any significant power on the up stroke. It has been thoroughly tested with professional cyclists to see how much power can be applied on the up stroke of the pedal and the results showed that - even for a professional cyclist - the amount of power given on the up stroke had a negligible effect on the full rotation of the pedals. All you should do is lift up the foot enough so there if you resistance to the foot that is pushing down. This can be done on flat pedals.
  • chivalryder
    chivalryder Posts: 4,391 Member
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    ntnunk wrote: »
    Clipless pedals are definitely worth it. As many have said, you lose a lot of power through the soft, flexible soles of running shoes or whatever. Also, learning to spin (high cadence, lower force) and not mash (higher force, lower cadence) will help your endurance since you're transferring some of the load from your legs to your heart and lungs on rides. Also, spinning is much, much easier on your knees.

    Get some pedals (I'm a big believer in Speedplay myself) and practice clipping in and out, preferably on a trainer, before you take them on the road. Once you're used to the pedals, practice spinning in smooth, round circles and gradually try to increase your cadence up to the 90 to 100 RPM range.

    Clipless pedals do not help you learn how to spin quickly. All they do is help you learn how to be lazy with your feet because your pedals will effectively pull your foot around in circles. If you want to learn how to spin incredibly quickly, do it on flat pedals where you need real control over your feet to prevent them from flying off the pedals. Once you can do this, imagine how much better you could be when your feet are attached to the pedals.
  • dbmata
    dbmata Posts: 12,950 Member
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    lol. separate your knee joint... I'd love to see the research on that.
    Clipless pedals will no help with endurance and will not make the ride easier.

    orly? Funny, when I switched to clipped pedals, my cadence increased, cruising speed increased, heart rate during climbs decreased, and overall ability to ride over long distances increased both perceptually and corroborated by cycle data.

    You're making up stuff as you go. If you understand anything about power transfer, you know your statement is pretty silly. The reason those pedals and shoes exist is to increase efficiency and power. Both combined makes the experience easier. derp.
  • OldDogSparky
    OldDogSparky Posts: 59
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    I'm about a year into cycling (CAAD 10) and went with the newbies basic Shimano SPDs. Less than $100 to get started. I fell over once while adjusting to them (fatigue after a long ride contributed to that). It really wasn't a big deal at all. They become second nature after a week or so.

    When you want some extra power during the ride, they just deliver. Even though I find myself pushing down only at times, I can really tell the difference when I keep the pressure up 360. It also helps to keep my feet at the correct angle and protect my knees from improper angles.
  • chivalryder
    chivalryder Posts: 4,391 Member
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    dbmata wrote: »
    lol. separate your knee joint... I'd love to see the research on that.
    Clipless pedals will no help with endurance and will not make the ride easier.

    orly? Funny, when I switched to clipped pedals, my cadence increased, cruising speed increased, heart rate during climbs decreased, and overall ability to ride over long distances increased both perceptually and corroborated by cycle data.

    You're making up stuff as you go. If you understand anything about power transfer, you know your statement is pretty silly. The reason those pedals and shoes exist is to increase efficiency and power. Both combined makes the experience easier. derp.

    https://www.thieme-connect.com/products/ejournals/abstract/10.1055/s-2008-1038374

    "There was no significant difference for pedalling effectiveness, net mechanical efficiency (NE) and muscular activity between [flats] and [clipless]."
  • glevinso
    glevinso Posts: 1,895 Member
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    dbmata wrote: »
    lol. separate your knee joint... I'd love to see the research on that.
    Clipless pedals will no help with endurance and will not make the ride easier.

    orly? Funny, when I switched to clipped pedals, my cadence increased, cruising speed increased, heart rate during climbs decreased, and overall ability to ride over long distances increased both perceptually and corroborated by cycle data.

    You're making up stuff as you go. If you understand anything about power transfer, you know your statement is pretty silly. The reason those pedals and shoes exist is to increase efficiency and power. Both combined makes the experience easier. derp.

    I was about to go point by point refuting everything the previous poster said, but I will just say +1 to this post.

    I don't have the energy to deal with how wrong that was.
  • chivalryder
    chivalryder Posts: 4,391 Member
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    I suspect the reason why you saw such an improvement in performance was because you were going from crappy flat pedals with running shoes to purpose built cycling shoes with clipless pedals.

    Have you ever ridden on a high quality, large aluminum flat pedal with purpose build flat shoes?
  • chivalryder
    chivalryder Posts: 4,391 Member
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    One look at published pedal force curves from Kautz or Coyle and it's clear that rider's, especially national level elite racers do NOT spin smoothly around the pedal stroke or generate significant power by pulling up, scraping mud or otherwise doing the things that firm attachment to the pedals is supposed to allow:



    Kautz SA, Feltner ME, Coyle EF, Baylor AM: "The pedaling technique of elite
    endurance cyclists: changes with increasing workload at constant cadence".
    International Journal of Sport Biomechanics 7:29-53, 1991.

    Coyle EF, Feltner ME, Kautz SA, Hamilton MT, Montain SJ, Baylor AM, Abrahams
    LD, Petrek GW: "Physiological and biochemical determinants of elite
    endurance cycling performance". Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise
    23:93-107, 1991.
  • Hornsby
    Hornsby Posts: 10,322 Member
    edited October 2014
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    Biggest thing for me being clipped in is that you can rest your quads and use your hammies for extended periods of time if need be.

    They will definitely increase your speed, endurance, handling and efficiency.
  • ksy1969
    ksy1969 Posts: 700 Member
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    In to see where this goes.

    I am thinking of getting a road bike in the spring and everyone that bikes says I need switch to clipped pedals when I do that.
  • chivalryder
    chivalryder Posts: 4,391 Member
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    ksy1969 wrote: »
    In to see where this goes.

    I am thinking of getting a road bike in the spring and everyone that bikes says I need switch to clipped pedals when I do that.

    You do not need to switch to clipless. Just get high quality flat pedals with cycling specific flat shoes. The performance difference between the two are negligible, but flat pedals will not *kitten* up your legs.
  • Hornsby
    Hornsby Posts: 10,322 Member
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    chivalryder wrote: »
    ksy1969 wrote: »
    In to see where this goes.

    I am thinking of getting a road bike in the spring and everyone that bikes says I need switch to clipped pedals when I do that.

    You do not need to switch to clipless. Just get high quality flat pedals with cycling specific flat shoes. The performance difference between the two are negligible, but flat pedals will not *kitten* up your legs.

    Need? Probably not. Will it make your riding experience more enjoyable? Absolutely.
  • chivalryder
    chivalryder Posts: 4,391 Member
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    More food for thought, has creditable sources in the article:

    http://exercisesforinjuries.com/clipless-pedals-enhancing-performance-of-covering-up-dysfunction/

    "The truth is that you should be able to ride a bike relatively well with some good flat pedals and shoes. In one study (Mornieux et al. Int J Sports Med 2008; 29:817-822) it was found that the pedal stroke of elite cyclists looked the same on flats and clipless pedals. Another study (Korff et al. Med Sci Sports Exerc 2007; 39:991-995) showed that pedaling in circles or pulling through the top of the pedal stroke resulted in a less powerful and efficient pedal stroke – in other words, there is no “magical” pedal stroke that is only available by attaching your foot to the pedals."
  • chivalryder
    chivalryder Posts: 4,391 Member
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    For all of you who say that clipless pedals make cycling better, please cite some sources that prove your point.
  • jacksonpt
    jacksonpt Posts: 10,413 Member
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    Just going to cover all my bases here...

    I disagree with everything chivalryder has said.
  • dbmata
    dbmata Posts: 12,950 Member
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    "However, an active pulling-up action on the pedal during upstroke increased the pedalling effectiveness, while reducing net mechanical efficiency."

    Efficiency went down because of increased energy expenditure, however effectiveness (increased power, assumably) increased.

    Small study, which unfortunately, is really all there seems to be right now. Also doesn't look at the whole riding process, including increased efficiency in handling.
    Here's a counterpoint to yours.
    http://yadda.icm.edu.pl/yadda/element/bwmeta1.element.elsevier-ad54d2b4-a00b-3546-9e64-0aa7f70efe88

    And your data for your claim that clipless pedals will separate your knee joints? Considering the number of people riding, and the number using clipless pedals, this would obviously be a huge health issue to be resolved before so much of the professional workforce comes up lame or crippled.

    Also, you feel there is no energy lost between shoe and interface when a rider is using a tennis shoe versus a rigid riding boot? Interesting.
  • glevinso
    glevinso Posts: 1,895 Member
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    chivalryder wrote: »
    I suspect the reason why you saw such an improvement in performance was because you were going from crappy flat pedals with running shoes to purpose built cycling shoes with clipless pedals.

    Have you ever ridden on a high quality, large aluminum flat pedal with purpose build flat shoes?

    Seriously? I know what you are advocating, and while I agree it is a good option, and have used that kind of pedal myself on a mountain bike, to suggest that is appropriate for road cycling is downright moronic. You don't ride a road bike like you would a mountain bike and the power transfer loss of flat pedals is easily measured, even "good ones".

  • dbmata
    dbmata Posts: 12,950 Member
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    chivalryder wrote: »
    I suspect the reason why you saw such an improvement in performance was because you were going from crappy flat pedals with running shoes to purpose built cycling shoes with clipless pedals.

    Have you ever ridden on a high quality, large aluminum flat pedal with purpose build flat shoes?
    That's not relevant.

    OP is using a crappy flat pedal with tennis shoes now.

    Are there high quality flat pedals with purpose built rigid boots? Sure, I could believe that. Is there a purpose for them in road cycling? No.
  • Hornsby
    Hornsby Posts: 10,322 Member
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    chivalryder wrote: »
    For all of you who say that clipless pedals make cycling better, please cite some sources that prove your point.

    Don't need a source. I am a study of N=1 and they make it more enjoyable for me. Never said they were better. Seriously, you can rest your quads while you use your hammies to pull up for extended periods of time. That saves a lot and adds to your endurance.

    And I have various bikes from a single speed with cages to a hybrid with flat pedals. There is a difference.
  • chivalryder
    chivalryder Posts: 4,391 Member
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    dbmata wrote: »
    Also, you feel there is no energy lost between shoe and interface when a rider is using a tennis shoe versus a rigid riding boot? Interesting.

    I would never suggest anyone use a tennis shoe while riding a bicycle. I would suggest they use a quality flat pedal (Wellgo, or similar) and some cycling specific flats (Five-Ten or DMC, etc.).

    Riding on tennis shoes for any extended period of time would be foolish.

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