Any raw milk drinkers out there? Which would you prefer...
beccamh
Posts: 85 Member
I have been buying a local 100% grass fed/finished, low temp pasturized, non homogenized whole milk from a local coop. In my area raw milk is very hard to come by and you typically have to pick up on the farm. Amazingly, I recently found a way to get raw milk through a friend... but it's grain finished.
The pricing is similar-- so my question is which would you prefer? Raw but grain finished, or pasturized but 100% grassfed?
The pricing is similar-- so my question is which would you prefer? Raw but grain finished, or pasturized but 100% grassfed?
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I would love raw milk! But it gets so tricky. Since it is low temp & grass fed I would go with co-op. Unless I could know for sure that it was non-GMO. Still...co-op.
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Sadly not enough. My husband's grandparents very occasionally have some from a nearby farm.
We once stayed in a holiday place on a farm and had raw organic milk for breakfast and in our room for tea. It was great.
It's not about often enough here to be picky about grain or grass sadly!0 -
I'd do a taste comparison.
Grain fed isn't a killer, and large scale feedlots don't sell raw milk, so it may be the superior product as it isn't pasteurized. Then again, flavor may be significantly different. It's 6 of one, Two pies and change of another.0 -
agree with db. I'd taste and see. Mine is grass fed from cow nip to the jar. Love it.
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Well boys, I think I just fell in love! Who knew?! I have heard nothing tastes better than raw. I live in Wyoming and can't get raw to save my life. Have to buy a cow share first. Hope to seal the deal tomorrow.0
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Storebought 2% for me. Particularly if I know it's grainfed from disease resistant (GMO) corn known to be low in aflatoxin.0
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Given those choices, I'd go with the 100% grassfed low temp pasteurized. From what I gathered when I looked into it a while back, grain finishing disrupts the bacterial balance and makes the milk more likely to harbor pathogens so I wouldn't go raw with any amount of grain feeding.0
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Bovine tuberculosis? You might also get raided by FDA OCI agents.0
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I would never consume raw milk.
http://www.cdc.gov/foodsafety/rawmilk/raw-milk-questions-and-answers.html0 -
Given those choices, I'd go with the 100% grassfed low temp pasteurized. From what I gathered when I looked into it a while back, grain finishing disrupts the bacterial balance and makes the milk more likely to harbor pathogens so I wouldn't go raw with any amount of grain feeding.
Naw.0 -
It's not worth the risk for me. There's a reason we adopted pasteurization.
Low heat (for a longer time) is my preferred technique.0 -
Given those choices, I'd go with the 100% grassfed low temp pasteurized. From what I gathered when I looked into it a while back, grain finishing disrupts the bacterial balance and makes the milk more likely to harbor pathogens so I wouldn't go raw with any amount of grain feeding.
Naw.
Eh, who knows. In reality, the crossing state lines, (unfounded) FDA harassment of the farmer, etc. made it go way beyond my comfort zone. I wasn't THAT invested in getting raw milk, so I just stopped drinking cow milk for a while. Eventually a local grocery store started carrying non-homogenized milk that was grassfed and low temp pasteurized and that was good enough for me. I still don't drink a ton of milk but it's nice to have the option.
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It is nice to have the option, I don't drink a ton of milk, but I like making cheese from time to time and the raw stuff is a must in my book.
The harassment is accurate, but here in WA we have it figured out I guess. The milk gets tested, you can find it at Safeway.
The real difference between grain and grass fed milk is flavor, grain isn't disrupting cow gut flora, they're far more resilient then that. What does disrupt their flora, and many other things is the conditions that you find at regular dairies or feedlots that you don't have present at one doing raw milk.0 -
SherryTeach wrote: »I would never consume raw milk.
http://www.cdc.gov/foodsafety/rawmilk/raw-milk-questions-and-answers.html
Really?? I used to drink lots of raw milk. I was raised in the country and we often had access to it and it was usually free from the bulk tank
Then for a few years I worked on a dairy farm and that was how we got our milk as well. Free from the bulk tank. As long as it was cold, I didn't care.
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In for the appeals to nature!0
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SherryTeach wrote: »I would never consume raw milk.
http://www.cdc.gov/foodsafety/rawmilk/raw-milk-questions-and-answers.html
You're as likely to get sick from raw milk as you are from store-bought sprouts or lettuce: http://http://www.foodsafety.gov/keep/types/fruits/sprouts.html
The CDC's job is to keep you scared and cover their own a$$es, and the "science" behind their warnings is non-existent, which is why they don't point to any.
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word.0
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But what raw milk is, above all, a source for infection. There have been outbreaks with Campylobacter, Salmonella, E. coli associated with raw milk and other organisms can be found in raw milk, some not common in the US, including Brucella, Listeria, Mycobacterium bovis (a cause of tuberculosis), Salmonella, Shigella, Yersinia, Giardia, and norovirus. Some are found in cows milk, and some, such as Brucella, more common from goat’s milk. These outbreaks have lead to hospitalizations and a few deaths.
Warm liquid filled with protein, fat and sugars. A good growth media for a bacteria, if they can gain access to the milk. Impossible. Proponents of raw milk point to the clean cows and clean environments that produce raw milk, but you cannot deny both microbiology and gravity. The colons of cows are frequently colonized with the aforementioned potential pathogens and the udder sits below, waiting to be splashed with cow pie. MMMMmmmmmm. Milk and pie. Seriously. Would you lick any cow udder, no matter how clean?
...
Once upon a time milk was associated with 25% of infection outbreaks; in part due to pasteurization those rates fell to 1%. Thanks to the raw milk advocates, infections are looking up. The sad thing is parents will feed their children milk supplemented with cow poo. Adults have the right to be stupid; it is what makes America great. But it is a shame that children should suffer as a result of their parents goofy idée fixe.
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/raw-milk-in-modern-times/
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FunkyTobias wrote: »But what raw milk is, above all, a source for infection. There have been outbreaks with Campylobacter, Salmonella, E. coli associated with raw milk and other organisms can be found in raw milk, some not common in the US, including Brucella, Listeria, Mycobacterium bovis (a cause of tuberculosis), Salmonella, Shigella, Yersinia, Giardia, and norovirus. Some are found in cows milk, and some, such as Brucella, more common from goat’s milk. These outbreaks have lead to hospitalizations and a few deaths.
Warm liquid filled with protein, fat and sugars. A good growth media for a bacteria, if they can gain access to the milk. Impossible. Proponents of raw milk point to the clean cows and clean environments that produce raw milk, but you cannot deny both microbiology and gravity. The colons of cows are frequently colonized with the aforementioned potential pathogens and the udder sits below, waiting to be splashed with cow pie. MMMMmmmmmm. Milk and pie. Seriously. Would you lick any cow udder, no matter how clean?
...
Once upon a time milk was associated with 25% of infection outbreaks; in part due to pasteurization those rates fell to 1%. Thanks to the raw milk advocates, infections are looking up. The sad thing is parents will feed their children milk supplemented with cow poo. Adults have the right to be stupid; it is what makes America great. But it is a shame that children should suffer as a result of their parents goofy idée fixe.
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/raw-milk-in-modern-times/
Hush you. We don't want your facts around here.0 -
FunkyTobias wrote: »But what raw milk is, above all, a source for infection. There have been outbreaks with Campylobacter, Salmonella, E. coli associated with raw milk and other organisms can be found in raw milk, some not common in the US, including Brucella, Listeria, Mycobacterium bovis (a cause of tuberculosis), Salmonella, Shigella, Yersinia, Giardia, and norovirus. Some are found in cows milk, and some, such as Brucella, more common from goat’s milk. These outbreaks have lead to hospitalizations and a few deaths.
Warm liquid filled with protein, fat and sugars. A good growth media for a bacteria, if they can gain access to the milk. Impossible. Proponents of raw milk point to the clean cows and clean environments that produce raw milk, but you cannot deny both microbiology and gravity. The colons of cows are frequently colonized with the aforementioned potential pathogens and the udder sits below, waiting to be splashed with cow pie. MMMMmmmmmm. Milk and pie. Seriously. Would you lick any cow udder, no matter how clean?
...
Once upon a time milk was associated with 25% of infection outbreaks; in part due to pasteurization those rates fell to 1%. Thanks to the raw milk advocates, infections are looking up. The sad thing is parents will feed their children milk supplemented with cow poo. Adults have the right to be stupid; it is what makes America great. But it is a shame that children should suffer as a result of their parents goofy idée fixe.
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/raw-milk-in-modern-times/
Sounds like propaganda by the Bacteria Lobby
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tincanonastring wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »But what raw milk is, above all, a source for infection. There have been outbreaks with Campylobacter, Salmonella, E. coli associated with raw milk and other organisms can be found in raw milk, some not common in the US, including Brucella, Listeria, Mycobacterium bovis (a cause of tuberculosis), Salmonella, Shigella, Yersinia, Giardia, and norovirus. Some are found in cows milk, and some, such as Brucella, more common from goat’s milk. These outbreaks have lead to hospitalizations and a few deaths.
Warm liquid filled with protein, fat and sugars. A good growth media for a bacteria, if they can gain access to the milk. Impossible. Proponents of raw milk point to the clean cows and clean environments that produce raw milk, but you cannot deny both microbiology and gravity. The colons of cows are frequently colonized with the aforementioned potential pathogens and the udder sits below, waiting to be splashed with cow pie. MMMMmmmmmm. Milk and pie. Seriously. Would you lick any cow udder, no matter how clean?
...
Once upon a time milk was associated with 25% of infection outbreaks; in part due to pasteurization those rates fell to 1%. Thanks to the raw milk advocates, infections are looking up. The sad thing is parents will feed their children milk supplemented with cow poo. Adults have the right to be stupid; it is what makes America great. But it is a shame that children should suffer as a result of their parents goofy idée fixe.
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/raw-milk-in-modern-times/
Hush you. We don't want your facts around here.
LOL, I'd love to see facts, all that was is FUD.
There have been all those outbreaks in pasteurized milk, spinach, spring mix, bagged vegetables, etc. etc. ad infinitum.
Show hard data.0 -
xmichaelyx wrote: »SherryTeach wrote: »I would never consume raw milk.
http://www.cdc.gov/foodsafety/rawmilk/raw-milk-questions-and-answers.html
You're as likely to get sick from raw milk as you are from store-bought sprouts or lettuce: http://http://www.foodsafety.gov/keep/types/fruits/sprouts.html
The CDC's job is to keep you scared and cover their own a$$es, and the "science" behind their warnings is non-existent, which is why they don't point to any.
Really?
Raw Milk:
From 1998 through 2011, 148 outbreaks due to consumption of raw milk or raw milk products were reported to CDC. These resulted in 2,384 illnesses, 284 hospitalizations, and 2 deaths. Most of these illnesses were caused by Escherichia coli, Campylobacter, Salmonella, or Listeria. It is important to note that a substantial proportion of the raw milk-associated disease burden falls on children; among the 104 outbreaks from 1998-2011 with information on the patients’ ages available, 82% involved at least one person younger than 20 years old. [/quote]
Sprouts:
Since 1996, there have been at least 30 reported outbreaks of foodborne illness associated with different types of raw and lightly cooked sprouts. Most of these outbreaks were caused by Salmonella and E. coli.[/quote]
FYI 148>30.
And even if sprouts were just as dangerous as raw milk, this would be a reason to avoid sprouts, not consume raw milk.
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Raw cheese is legal where I live, which I consume and love, but not milk or other milk products. I would buy them in a heartbeat if they were.0
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Yes it would be nice to see data but the above is a tu quoque logical fallacy.tincanonastring wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »But what raw milk is, above all, a source for infection. There have been outbreaks with Campylobacter, Salmonella, E. coli associated with raw milk and other organisms can be found in raw milk, some not common in the US, including Brucella, Listeria, Mycobacterium bovis (a cause of tuberculosis), Salmonella, Shigella, Yersinia, Giardia, and norovirus. Some are found in cows milk, and some, such as Brucella, more common from goat’s milk. These outbreaks have lead to hospitalizations and a few deaths.
Warm liquid filled with protein, fat and sugars. A good growth media for a bacteria, if they can gain access to the milk. Impossible. Proponents of raw milk point to the clean cows and clean environments that produce raw milk, but you cannot deny both microbiology and gravity. The colons of cows are frequently colonized with the aforementioned potential pathogens and the udder sits below, waiting to be splashed with cow pie. MMMMmmmmmm. Milk and pie. Seriously. Would you lick any cow udder, no matter how clean?
...
Once upon a time milk was associated with 25% of infection outbreaks; in part due to pasteurization those rates fell to 1%. Thanks to the raw milk advocates, infections are looking up. The sad thing is parents will feed their children milk supplemented with cow poo. Adults have the right to be stupid; it is what makes America great. But it is a shame that children should suffer as a result of their parents goofy idée fixe.
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/raw-milk-in-modern-times/
Hush you. We don't want your facts around here.
LOL, I'd love to see facts, all that was is FUD.
There have been all those outbreaks in pasteurized milk, spinach, spring mix, bagged vegetables, etc. etc. ad infinitum.
Show hard data.
It doesn't matter that infections are caused by other things as well.
Why climb a rope across a gorge when there is a perfectly good bridge right beside it.
That said, if the taste and perceived health benefits are worth it to you, go ahead and gamble.
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Pop quiz hotshot!FunkyTobias wrote: »FYI 148>30.
And even if sprouts were just as dangerous as raw milk, this would be a reason to avoid sprouts, not consume raw milk.
When is 30>148?
When you look at magnitude of infection.
It's not even close. Again, FUD. Without actionable data.
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YES!! ITS A BIG DEAL HERE!,,, so many people are against it.0
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Yes it would be nice to see data but the above is a tu quoque logical fallacy.tincanonastring wrote: »FunkyTobias wrote: »But what raw milk is, above all, a source for infection. There have been outbreaks with Campylobacter, Salmonella, E. coli associated with raw milk and other organisms can be found in raw milk, some not common in the US, including Brucella, Listeria, Mycobacterium bovis (a cause of tuberculosis), Salmonella, Shigella, Yersinia, Giardia, and norovirus. Some are found in cows milk, and some, such as Brucella, more common from goat’s milk. These outbreaks have lead to hospitalizations and a few deaths.
Warm liquid filled with protein, fat and sugars. A good growth media for a bacteria, if they can gain access to the milk. Impossible. Proponents of raw milk point to the clean cows and clean environments that produce raw milk, but you cannot deny both microbiology and gravity. The colons of cows are frequently colonized with the aforementioned potential pathogens and the udder sits below, waiting to be splashed with cow pie. MMMMmmmmmm. Milk and pie. Seriously. Would you lick any cow udder, no matter how clean?
...
Once upon a time milk was associated with 25% of infection outbreaks; in part due to pasteurization those rates fell to 1%. Thanks to the raw milk advocates, infections are looking up. The sad thing is parents will feed their children milk supplemented with cow poo. Adults have the right to be stupid; it is what makes America great. But it is a shame that children should suffer as a result of their parents goofy idée fixe.
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/raw-milk-in-modern-times/
Hush you. We don't want your facts around here.
LOL, I'd love to see facts, all that was is FUD.
There have been all those outbreaks in pasteurized milk, spinach, spring mix, bagged vegetables, etc. etc. ad infinitum.
Show hard data.
It doesn't matter that infections are caused by other things as well.
Why climb a rope across a gorge when there is a perfectly good bridge right beside it.
That said, if the taste and perceived health benefits are worth it to you, go ahead and gamble.
It's not a fallacy, it's a simple fact of the matter. One is claiming that you shouldn't drink raw milk because there is potential for infection.
Simple fact remains, there is risk and history of infection (particularly at greater magnitudes) in other forms of processed foods. It was fud. Although granted, it does bring the blue poster's hypocrisy into question only if he then espouses the ultimate safety of other processed foods. (Which he did do in a later post, erroneously by obfuscating variables.)0
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