Opinions' poll on TDEE vs NEAT? (lifting)
ana3067
Posts: 5,623 Member
For those of you who lift or are at least trying to preserve lean body mass, do you find that your results are better wtih one method over another? I just don't know if my results lately have been due to not eating enough protein or due to doing NEAT method (eating back all cals though). I just recalculated and turns out with this other calculator that estimates a btit lower and probably more accurate for me based on my week in maintenance, and if I do NEAT then eating back 75% of the cals will be around my TDEE-20%.
TDEE is so much easier, but doesn't allow flexibility with work out schedule.
NEAT allows flexibility but then I'm eating less food some days. And having to eat back calories when it's all iffy on how many to eat back.
Experience? Opinions?
TDEE is so much easier, but doesn't allow flexibility with work out schedule.
NEAT allows flexibility but then I'm eating less food some days. And having to eat back calories when it's all iffy on how many to eat back.
Experience? Opinions?
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Replies
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I use the TDEE method, but having said that, you can calorie cycle with this method if you want the flexibility. I don't like the NEAT plan as it's difficult to understand calories burned and i doesn't allow me to fully plan my days out.0
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I did TDEE minus between 10%-20% (depending on the month) for a while and enjoyed it, but last month re-set my calories so that I am in a slight deficit on rest days and a slight surplus on lifting days - so basically equaling out to maintenance at the end of the week. I'm trying this for a month or two to see how I feel. Not expecting to lose, but expecting to feel more fueled up on lifting days and ultimately some strength gains (deadlifts higher than my bodyweight while at a slight deficit turned me into the hangriest b!tch ever).0
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willrun4bagels wrote: »I did TDEE minus between 10%-20% (depending on the month) for a while and enjoyed it, but last month re-set my calories so that I am in a slight deficit on rest days and a slight surplus on lifting days - so basically equaling out to maintenance at the end of the week. I'm trying this for a month or two to see how I feel. Not expecting to lose, but expecting to feel more fueled up on lifting days and ultimately some strength gains (deadlifts higher than my bodyweight while at a slight deficit turned me into the hangriest b!tch ever).
I'm interested in this but am just having a hard time getting the right mind set and patience for logging and eating this way. I think I'll do another week or two at a deficit and then try something similar.0 -
arditarose wrote: »willrun4bagels wrote: »I did TDEE minus between 10%-20% (depending on the month) for a while and enjoyed it, but last month re-set my calories so that I am in a slight deficit on rest days and a slight surplus on lifting days - so basically equaling out to maintenance at the end of the week. I'm trying this for a month or two to see how I feel. Not expecting to lose, but expecting to feel more fueled up on lifting days and ultimately some strength gains (deadlifts higher than my bodyweight while at a slight deficit turned me into the hangriest b!tch ever).
I'm interested in this but am just having a hard time getting the right mind set and patience for logging and eating this way. I think I'll do another week or two at a deficit and then try something similar.
I calculated my numbers for rest days and workout days here: http://www.1percentedge.com/ifcalc/
I set the split for a standard recomp (-20% deficit on rest days, 20% surplus on workout days).0 -
Done correctly, the methods are basically 6 of 1, half dozen of the other...the only difference is where you account for that exercise.
I think the NEAT method is beneficial for individuals new to fitness and inconsistent. I think the TDEE method is more intuitive and better for people who are more consistent in their fitness.
The biggest issue I see people have with either method is that they take these calculators and calculations as gospel and forget that they have to actually use their brains and make adjustments as per real world results. These calculators are just meant to give you a good general starting point...but they're just estimates based on statistical averages...nothing more, nothing less.0 -
willrun4bagels wrote: »arditarose wrote: »willrun4bagels wrote: »I did TDEE minus between 10%-20% (depending on the month) for a while and enjoyed it, but last month re-set my calories so that I am in a slight deficit on rest days and a slight surplus on lifting days - so basically equaling out to maintenance at the end of the week. I'm trying this for a month or two to see how I feel. Not expecting to lose, but expecting to feel more fueled up on lifting days and ultimately some strength gains (deadlifts higher than my bodyweight while at a slight deficit turned me into the hangriest b!tch ever).
I'm interested in this but am just having a hard time getting the right mind set and patience for logging and eating this way. I think I'll do another week or two at a deficit and then try something similar.
I calculated my numbers for rest days and workout days here: http://www.1percentedge.com/ifcalc/
I set the split for a standard recomp (-20% deficit on rest days, 20% surplus on workout days).
Cool, thanks, I'll have a look!0 -
Definitely. Just a bit paraboid about losing more muscle. I think if i stick to neat i will keep the protein higher. Otherwise will wait to see if anyone else has opinions on which has worked better!cwolfman13 wrote: »Done correctly, the methods are basically 6 of 1, half dozen of the other...the only difference is where you account for that exercise.
I think the NEAT method is beneficial for individuals new to fitness and inconsistent. I think the TDEE method is more intuitive and better for people who are more consistent in their fitness.
The biggest issue I see people have with either method is that they take these calculators and calculations as gospel and forget that they have to actually use their brains and make adjustments as per real world results. These calculators are just meant to give you a good general starting point...but they're just estimates based on statistical averages...nothing more, nothing less.
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I use the TDEE method, but having said that, you can calorie cycle with this method if you want the flexibility. I don't like the NEAT plan as it's difficult to understand calories burned and i doesn't allow me to fully plan my days out.
Are you always consistent with exercise, and if not do you adjust your intake to compensate? I do feel like tdee would be easier to adjust up/down based on results.0 -
I wouldn't stress it too much. Eat adequate protein and do a progressive lifting program. And honestly, while we can try to mitigate muscle loss, it's inevitable to lose some while losing weight. And unless you plan on getting hydrostatic or dexa scans every few months, how will you even know?
Definitely. Just a bit paraboid about losing more muscle. I think if i stick to neat i will keep the protein higher. Otherwise will wait to see if anyone else has opinions on which has worked better!cwolfman13 wrote: »Done correctly, the methods are basically 6 of 1, half dozen of the other...the only difference is where you account for that exercise.
I think the NEAT method is beneficial for individuals new to fitness and inconsistent. I think the TDEE method is more intuitive and better for people who are more consistent in their fitness.
The biggest issue I see people have with either method is that they take these calculators and calculations as gospel and forget that they have to actually use their brains and make adjustments as per real world results. These calculators are just meant to give you a good general starting point...but they're just estimates based on statistical averages...nothing more, nothing less.
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I'm must be confused as to what NEAT actually is. I thought it was part of my TDEE
edit: Nope, just googled it - exactly what I thought it was, non-exercise activity thermogenesis - part of my TDEE0 -
TDEE got me to 10% this summer. NEAT got me to spin my wheels last year and not get nearly as lean.0
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I'm must be confused as to what NEAT actually is. I thought it was part of my TDEE
It is, but you can eat just neat and then eat back exercise calories instead of already having exercise included.Do you personally do tdee? I am definitely interested to see what other lifters prefer to do or have better results with0 -
Thats my issue.. i feel ive lost just fine but not lost the way i wanted. But ive also possi bly been eating too little protein despite eating about my lbm. I used to eat more protein and did tdee... so not really aure which caused the issues ive been having.TDEE got me to 10% this summer. NEAT got me to spin my wheels last year and not get nearly as lean.
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IME, both methods end up having me eat basically the same (within 100 or so calories of each other). The only difference is how I log/track things.
In either case, I control how the macros make up my total calories, so there's no reason you can't pick the method that you prefer AND control macros based on your goals/preferences.0 -
Don't think I've ever heard of NEAT as a standalone method? But I guess if we're going to use it as such, I very much prefer TDEE method. There's not point in spending any energy stressing over every workout calorie every day... there's other things to occupy my time
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Neat is mfp default lol. Thats why everyone always asks if they need to eat back calories.BenjaminMFP88 wrote: »Don't think I've ever heard of NEAT as a standalone method? But I guess if we're going to use it as such, I very much prefer TDEE method. There's not point in spending any energy stressing over every workout calorie every day... there's other things to occupy my time
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Yeah, I've just never heard it called that. I've always just thought of it to be just another variable in the TDEE equation.0
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IME, both methods end up having me eat basically the same (within 100 or so calories of each other). The only difference is how I log/track things.
In either case, I control how the macros make up my total calories, so there's no reason you can't pick the method that you prefer AND control macros based on your goals/preferences.
I do cobtrol the macros, but i did lower my protein to lbm. Was doing 30-40g higher before when doing tdee.so not sure if it was neat or lower protein that was my issue
But of the two do you have a preference in terms of results? Or is it basically the same assuming you get enouh protein and lift regularly?0 -
The other day I was running my calculations again and found that my NEAT calories and the TDEE method were about the same, give or take like 50 calories. I had been doing NEAT and eating back my exercise...When really, I should not have been since they were technically the same as the TDEE goals. I have never seen them be the same before. Maybe that's wrong. But I was kind of stuck while doing this.0
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arditarose wrote: »The other day I was running my calculations again and found that my NEAT calories and the TDEE method were about the same, give or take like 50 calories. I had been doing NEAT and eating back my exercise...When really, I should not have been since they were technically the same as the TDEE goals. I have never seen them be the same before. Maybe that's wrong. But I was kind of stuck while doing this.
Chances are youve calculated wrong. Mine never come out the same because exercise increases tdee0 -
never mind... misread.0
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I use the default MFP method because my exercise varies quite a bit depending on my current training. I have a good idea of my basic calorie goal and how many calories I'm burning for different exercises at this point since I have years of data with different exercise levels (sedentary, just lifting, lifting and running, and less lifting/running 25 miles/week). I also make tweaks based on what my weight does long term versus predicted. I had to recently up my base calorie goal from 2200 to 2300 after I completed a bulk/cut and started running more because I kept losing at 2200. Whichever method you use, it's going to be a case of trial and error and a feedback loop based on what your weight is actually doing to determine how much you should be eating to meet your weight loss/maintenance/gain goals.
I find this excellent tool useful for making tweaks: http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/EvgeniZyntx/view/new-mfp-data-export-tool-major-update-659927BenjaminMFP88 wrote: »Yeah, I've just never heard it called that. I've always just thought of it to be just another variable in the TDEE equation.
That's how I've seen it as well (BMR+NEAT+EAT+TEF=TDEE), but I knew what @ana3067 meant.0 -
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lol well, I do not have years of dataThe_Enginerd wrote: »I use the default MFP method because my exercise varies quite a bit depending on my current training. I have a good idea of my basic calorie goal and how many calories I'm burning for different exercises at this point since I have years of data with different exercise levels (sedentary, just lifting, lifting and running, and less lifting/running 25 miles/week). I also make tweaks based on what my weight does long term versus predicted. I had to recently up my base calorie goal from 2200 to 2300 after I completed a bulk/cut and started running more because I kept losing at 2200. Whichever method you use, it's going to be a case of trial and error and a feedback loop based on what your weight is actually doing to determine how much you should be eating to meet your weight loss/maintenance/gain goals.
I find this excellent tool useful for making tweaks: http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/EvgeniZyntx/view/new-mfp-data-export-tool-major-update-659927BenjaminMFP88 wrote: »Yeah, I've just never heard it called that. I've always just thought of it to be just another variable in the TDEE equation.
That's how I've seen it as well (BMR+NEAT+EAT+TEF=TDEE), but I knew what @ana3067 meant.
if using MFP method then and logging lifting time, would you log the entire time? Or a portion, 50%, 75% etc? My training has been pretty consistent, other than changing number of days (4 upper/lower vs 2 full body, with like 20 min difference overall for both days combined). I think I might just go back to TDEE so I can more easily raise or lower my intake based on results, and I guess if I know that I'm about to change my schedule I can eat like 50-100 cals less or something if needed. Or just recalculate for an estimate.
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Personally I always found TDEE to be easier for me. I like consistency and not having to worry about eating more one day or less the other. I set a caloric intake, train as usual, monitor trends and then adjust as needed.
yes I'm thinking consistency with calories will make it easier to adjust intake based on my usual training, and I can better compare intake and results with my training habits over time. I think if I start doing cardio or something every now and then (which, lol, probably not gonna happen) then I will just eat back some cals or something.0 -
I do TDEE just because it's better for me, mentally, not to have a variable calorie target from day to day. I would end up getting way too obsessive about calories if I did the MFP eat-back method. I completely understand how the eat-back method is helpful for people who maybe are newer to incorporating exercise (not saying this is you, btw), but it's not healthy for me personally to think of exercising in order to "earn" more calories.0
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BenjaminMFP88 wrote: »Yeah, I've just never heard it called that. I've always just thought of it to be just another variable in the TDEE equation.
It is. I don't understand the logic for calling the MFP method the NEAT method. I guess because it doesn't let you use exercise to increase your deficit, unless you refer to your exercise as "NEAT" (activity level) instead of as "exercise"?
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When I was losing and originally maintaining, I used 50% of the calories for my entire lifting time to be conservative. Since I only spend maybe 10 minutes out of the 45 minutes actually doing anything, I figured it was a safe assumption. I now use the full amount, because the data showed this to be correct for me and my lifting program (5x5 type of program with 90 second rests between sets). In the beginning, I didn't know in the beginning if I was losing slowly due to my estimate for my base calories (BMR+NEAT+TEF) or exercise calories being too low. As long as I was being consistent, it didn't really matter.
lol well, I do not have years of dataThe_Enginerd wrote: »I use the default MFP method because my exercise varies quite a bit depending on my current training. I have a good idea of my basic calorie goal and how many calories I'm burning for different exercises at this point since I have years of data with different exercise levels (sedentary, just lifting, lifting and running, and less lifting/running 25 miles/week). I also make tweaks based on what my weight does long term versus predicted. I had to recently up my base calorie goal from 2200 to 2300 after I completed a bulk/cut and started running more because I kept losing at 2200. Whichever method you use, it's going to be a case of trial and error and a feedback loop based on what your weight is actually doing to determine how much you should be eating to meet your weight loss/maintenance/gain goals.
I find this excellent tool useful for making tweaks: http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/EvgeniZyntx/view/new-mfp-data-export-tool-major-update-659927BenjaminMFP88 wrote: »Yeah, I've just never heard it called that. I've always just thought of it to be just another variable in the TDEE equation.
That's how I've seen it as well (BMR+NEAT+EAT+TEF=TDEE), but I knew what @ana3067 meant. if using MFP method then and logging lifting time, would you log the entire time? Or a portion, 50%, 75% etc? My training has been pretty consistent, other than changing number of days (4 upper/lower vs 2 full body, with like 20 min difference overall for both days combined). I think I might just go back to TDEE so I can more easily raise or lower my intake based on results, and I guess if I know that I'm about to change my schedule I can eat like 50-100 cals less or something if needed. Or just recalculate for an estimate.
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I prefer TDEE because I'd rather not struggle with difficult questions like, "Do I log washing dishes as exercise?". 0
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Neat is mfp default lol. Thats why everyone always asks if they need to eat back calories.BenjaminMFP88 wrote: »Don't think I've ever heard of NEAT as a standalone method? But I guess if we're going to use it as such, I very much prefer TDEE method. There's not point in spending any energy stressing over every workout calorie every day... there's other things to occupy my time
I would disagree with this statement. NEAT is fidgeting and walking about and things you do everyday - I know SOME people enter activities like housework etc but they are definitely in the minority.
Again, N(on-exercise)EAT.
Yes, I use TDEE. MFP estimates are too 'out' for me.
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