Opinions' poll on TDEE vs NEAT? (lifting)

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ana3067
ana3067 Posts: 5,624 Member
in Health and Weight Loss
For those of you who lift or are at least trying to preserve lean body mass, do you find that your results are better wtih one method over another? I just don't know if my results lately have been due to not eating enough protein or due to doing NEAT method (eating back all cals though). I just recalculated and turns out with this other calculator that estimates a btit lower and probably more accurate for me based on my week in maintenance, and if I do NEAT then eating back 75% of the cals will be around my TDEE-20%.

TDEE is so much easier, but doesn't allow flexibility with work out schedule.
NEAT allows flexibility but then I'm eating less food some days. And having to eat back calories when it's all iffy on how many to eat back.

Experience? Opinions?
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Replies

  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,391 MFP Moderator
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    I use the TDEE method, but having said that, you can calorie cycle with this method if you want the flexibility. I don't like the NEAT plan as it's difficult to understand calories burned and i doesn't allow me to fully plan my days out.
  • willrun4bagels
    willrun4bagels Posts: 838 Member
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    I did TDEE minus between 10%-20% (depending on the month) for a while and enjoyed it, but last month re-set my calories so that I am in a slight deficit on rest days and a slight surplus on lifting days - so basically equaling out to maintenance at the end of the week. I'm trying this for a month or two to see how I feel. Not expecting to lose, but expecting to feel more fueled up on lifting days and ultimately some strength gains (deadlifts higher than my bodyweight while at a slight deficit turned me into the hangriest b!tch ever).
  • arditarose
    arditarose Posts: 15,575 Member
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    willrun4bagels wrote: »
    I did TDEE minus between 10%-20% (depending on the month) for a while and enjoyed it, but last month re-set my calories so that I am in a slight deficit on rest days and a slight surplus on lifting days - so basically equaling out to maintenance at the end of the week. I'm trying this for a month or two to see how I feel. Not expecting to lose, but expecting to feel more fueled up on lifting days and ultimately some strength gains (deadlifts higher than my bodyweight while at a slight deficit turned me into the hangriest b!tch ever).

    I'm interested in this but am just having a hard time getting the right mind set and patience for logging and eating this way. I think I'll do another week or two at a deficit and then try something similar.
  • willrun4bagels
    willrun4bagels Posts: 838 Member
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    arditarose wrote: »
    willrun4bagels wrote: »
    I did TDEE minus between 10%-20% (depending on the month) for a while and enjoyed it, but last month re-set my calories so that I am in a slight deficit on rest days and a slight surplus on lifting days - so basically equaling out to maintenance at the end of the week. I'm trying this for a month or two to see how I feel. Not expecting to lose, but expecting to feel more fueled up on lifting days and ultimately some strength gains (deadlifts higher than my bodyweight while at a slight deficit turned me into the hangriest b!tch ever).

    I'm interested in this but am just having a hard time getting the right mind set and patience for logging and eating this way. I think I'll do another week or two at a deficit and then try something similar.

    I calculated my numbers for rest days and workout days here: http://www.1percentedge.com/ifcalc/

    I set the split for a standard recomp (-20% deficit on rest days, 20% surplus on workout days).
  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 41,874 Member
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    Done correctly, the methods are basically 6 of 1, half dozen of the other...the only difference is where you account for that exercise.

    I think the NEAT method is beneficial for individuals new to fitness and inconsistent. I think the TDEE method is more intuitive and better for people who are more consistent in their fitness.

    The biggest issue I see people have with either method is that they take these calculators and calculations as gospel and forget that they have to actually use their brains and make adjustments as per real world results. These calculators are just meant to give you a good general starting point...but they're just estimates based on statistical averages...nothing more, nothing less.
  • arditarose
    arditarose Posts: 15,575 Member
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    willrun4bagels wrote: »
    arditarose wrote: »
    willrun4bagels wrote: »
    I did TDEE minus between 10%-20% (depending on the month) for a while and enjoyed it, but last month re-set my calories so that I am in a slight deficit on rest days and a slight surplus on lifting days - so basically equaling out to maintenance at the end of the week. I'm trying this for a month or two to see how I feel. Not expecting to lose, but expecting to feel more fueled up on lifting days and ultimately some strength gains (deadlifts higher than my bodyweight while at a slight deficit turned me into the hangriest b!tch ever).

    I'm interested in this but am just having a hard time getting the right mind set and patience for logging and eating this way. I think I'll do another week or two at a deficit and then try something similar.

    I calculated my numbers for rest days and workout days here: http://www.1percentedge.com/ifcalc/

    I set the split for a standard recomp (-20% deficit on rest days, 20% surplus on workout days).

    Cool, thanks, I'll have a look!
  • ana3067
    ana3067 Posts: 5,624 Member
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    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    Done correctly, the methods are basically 6 of 1, half dozen of the other...the only difference is where you account for that exercise.

    I think the NEAT method is beneficial for individuals new to fitness and inconsistent. I think the TDEE method is more intuitive and better for people who are more consistent in their fitness.

    The biggest issue I see people have with either method is that they take these calculators and calculations as gospel and forget that they have to actually use their brains and make adjustments as per real world results. These calculators are just meant to give you a good general starting point...but they're just estimates based on statistical averages...nothing more, nothing less.
    Definitely. Just a bit paraboid about losing more muscle. I think if i stick to neat i will keep the protein higher. Otherwise will wait to see if anyone else has opinions on which has worked better!
  • ana3067
    ana3067 Posts: 5,624 Member
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    psulemon wrote: »
    I use the TDEE method, but having said that, you can calorie cycle with this method if you want the flexibility. I don't like the NEAT plan as it's difficult to understand calories burned and i doesn't allow me to fully plan my days out.

    Are you always consistent with exercise, and if not do you adjust your intake to compensate? I do feel like tdee would be easier to adjust up/down based on results.
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,391 MFP Moderator
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    ana3067 wrote: »
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    Done correctly, the methods are basically 6 of 1, half dozen of the other...the only difference is where you account for that exercise.

    I think the NEAT method is beneficial for individuals new to fitness and inconsistent. I think the TDEE method is more intuitive and better for people who are more consistent in their fitness.

    The biggest issue I see people have with either method is that they take these calculators and calculations as gospel and forget that they have to actually use their brains and make adjustments as per real world results. These calculators are just meant to give you a good general starting point...but they're just estimates based on statistical averages...nothing more, nothing less.
    Definitely. Just a bit paraboid about losing more muscle. I think if i stick to neat i will keep the protein higher. Otherwise will wait to see if anyone else has opinions on which has worked better!
    I wouldn't stress it too much. Eat adequate protein and do a progressive lifting program. And honestly, while we can try to mitigate muscle loss, it's inevitable to lose some while losing weight. And unless you plan on getting hydrostatic or dexa scans every few months, how will you even know?

  • 3laine75
    3laine75 Posts: 3,070 Member
    edited November 2014
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    I'm must be confused as to what NEAT actually is. I thought it was part of my TDEE :/

    edit: Nope, just googled it - exactly what I thought it was, non-exercise activity thermogenesis - part of my TDEE
  • sculli123
    sculli123 Posts: 1,221 Member
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    TDEE got me to 10% this summer. NEAT got me to spin my wheels last year and not get nearly as lean.
  • ana3067
    ana3067 Posts: 5,624 Member
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    3laine75 wrote: »
    I'm must be confused as to what NEAT actually is. I thought it was part of my TDEE :/

    It is, but you can eat just neat and then eat back exercise calories instead of already having exercise included.Do you personally do tdee? I am definitely interested to see what other lifters prefer to do or have better results with
  • ana3067
    ana3067 Posts: 5,624 Member
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    sculli123 wrote: »
    TDEE got me to 10% this summer. NEAT got me to spin my wheels last year and not get nearly as lean.
    Thats my issue.. i feel ive lost just fine but not lost the way i wanted. But ive also possi bly been eating too little protein despite eating about my lbm. I used to eat more protein and did tdee... so not really aure which caused the issues ive been having.
  • jacksonpt
    jacksonpt Posts: 10,413 Member
    edited November 2014
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    IME, both methods end up having me eat basically the same (within 100 or so calories of each other). The only difference is how I log/track things.

    In either case, I control how the macros make up my total calories, so there's no reason you can't pick the method that you prefer AND control macros based on your goals/preferences.
  • BenjaminMFP88
    BenjaminMFP88 Posts: 660 Member
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    Don't think I've ever heard of NEAT as a standalone method? But I guess if we're going to use it as such, I very much prefer TDEE method. There's not point in spending any energy stressing over every workout calorie every day... there's other things to occupy my time :)
  • ana3067
    ana3067 Posts: 5,624 Member
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    BenjaminMFP88 wrote: »
    Don't think I've ever heard of NEAT as a standalone method? But I guess if we're going to use it as such, I very much prefer TDEE method. There's not point in spending any energy stressing over every workout calorie every day... there's other things to occupy my time :)
    Neat is mfp default lol. Thats why everyone always asks if they need to eat back calories.
  • BenjaminMFP88
    BenjaminMFP88 Posts: 660 Member
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    Yeah, I've just never heard it called that. I've always just thought of it to be just another variable in the TDEE equation.
  • ana3067
    ana3067 Posts: 5,624 Member
    edited November 2014
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    jacksonpt wrote: »
    IME, both methods end up having me eat basically the same (within 100 or so calories of each other). The only difference is how I log/track things.

    In either case, I control how the macros make up my total calories, so there's no reason you can't pick the method that you prefer AND control macros based on your goals/preferences.

    I do cobtrol the macros, but i did lower my protein to lbm. Was doing 30-40g higher before when doing tdee.so not sure if it was neat or lower protein that was my issue

    But of the two do you have a preference in terms of results? Or is it basically the same assuming you get enouh protein and lift regularly?
  • arditarose
    arditarose Posts: 15,575 Member
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    The other day I was running my calculations again and found that my NEAT calories and the TDEE method were about the same, give or take like 50 calories. I had been doing NEAT and eating back my exercise...When really, I should not have been since they were technically the same as the TDEE goals. I have never seen them be the same before. Maybe that's wrong. But I was kind of stuck while doing this.
  • ana3067
    ana3067 Posts: 5,624 Member
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    arditarose wrote: »
    The other day I was running my calculations again and found that my NEAT calories and the TDEE method were about the same, give or take like 50 calories. I had been doing NEAT and eating back my exercise...When really, I should not have been since they were technically the same as the TDEE goals. I have never seen them be the same before. Maybe that's wrong. But I was kind of stuck while doing this.

    Chances are youve calculated wrong. Mine never come out the same because exercise increases tdee

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