Anyone figured out / learned that sugar is poison?
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Poison holy crap! I didn't realize I was the walking deAd.0
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Do you wonder why most of those people in the group aren't active anymore? It's no mystery to me.0
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In to watch the same old argument unfold for the umpteenth time.0
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Oh good grief! Poison? REALLY?0
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Everything is poison. I mean, we're all going to die eventually.0
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sidesteel, thank you for the second reasonable post on this thread. I agree about moderation, in general - however, I'm curious if your opinion would change after reading each of the links I've posted. It's true, a teaspoon of sugar a day won't hurt anyone. Nor will a pound a year.
However the average american eats 75 lbs of sugar per year. Average!!!! So, there goes your moderation LOL. Since I don't eat any, someone's eating a half pound of sugar a day
It depends on what question you're asking me. I've read a fair amount of studies on sugar, certainly not all of them.
I can tell you that I've yet to see data demonstrating deleterious effects of sugar in a diet where nutrient needs are met and total energy intake is kept under control. And I doubt if one exists using diets that meet these conditions.
If I understand correctly the AHA sugar recommendations (for example) are primarily based on the concern that excess sugar either causes excess energy intake which then leads to health problems and that excess sugar intake can push necessary nutrients off the table. (IIRC this one: https://circ.ahajournals.org/content/120/11/1011.full.pdf+html)
And those are both legitimate concerns.
Do I think the standard american diet probably has too much sugar? Yes, but it also has too many calories and too little nutrient dense foods.
I don't support the idea that food ingredients should be avoided and I don't support claims of foods being toxic without paying attention to dose and context.
Food avoidance and rigid dieting practices are likely far more detrimental than sugar.
If you want to form a productive group that will actually help people, then be inclusive and talk about how to form better habits and improve people's relationship with foods, and that starts by not fearing individual ingredients.
^^ This!0 -
sidesteel, thank you for the second reasonable post on this thread. I agree about moderation, in general - however, I'm curious if your opinion would change after reading each of the links I've posted. It's true, a teaspoon of sugar a day won't hurt anyone. Nor will a pound a year.
However the average american eats 75 lbs of sugar per year. Average!!!! So, there goes your moderation LOL. Since I don't eat any, someone's eating a half pound of sugar a day
It depends on what question you're asking me. I've read a fair amount of studies on sugar, certainly not all of them.
I can tell you that I've yet to see data demonstrating deleterious effects of sugar in a diet where nutrient needs are met and total energy intake is kept under control. And I doubt if one exists using diets that meet these conditions.
If I understand correctly the AHA sugar recommendations (for example) are primarily based on the concern that excess sugar either causes excess energy intake which then leads to health problems and that excess sugar intake can push necessary nutrients off the table. (IIRC this one: https://circ.ahajournals.org/content/120/11/1011.full.pdf+html)
And those are both legitimate concerns.
Do I think the standard american diet probably has too much sugar? Yes, but it also has too many calories and too little nutrient dense foods.
I don't support the idea that food ingredients should be avoided and I don't support claims of foods being toxic without paying attention to dose and context.
Food avoidance and rigid dieting practices are likely far more detrimental than sugar.
If you want to form a productive group that will actually help people, then be inclusive and talk about how to form better habits and improve people's relationship with foods, and that starts by not fearing individual ingredients.
And this was stated so much better than my response...0 -
Cutting out all sugar is ridiculous. I'm not a scientist and I don't have time to read all your links, but be realistic...not all sugars are created equal.
I know anecdotes aren't evidence, but today I've consumed 38 g of sugar so far in the form of a greek yogurt, a protein bar, and a clementine. A can of Coke is 39 g of sugar, so almost the same. Which one is healthier?0 -
The dose makes the poison.
It's always been a strong selling point to try and blame obesity on a single food ingredient, or "chemical"(lol) or an entire macronutrient. It's no different with people who try to push sugar avoidance.
Moderation doesn't sell well.
DJ.sidesteel, thank you for the second reasonable post on this thread. I agree about moderation, in general - however, I'm curious if your opinion would change after reading each of the links I've posted. It's true, a teaspoon of sugar a day won't hurt anyone. Nor will a pound a year.
However the average american eats 75 lbs of sugar per year. Average!!!! So, there goes your moderation LOL. Since I don't eat any, someone's eating a half pound of sugar a day
You eat no sugar at all? You don't eat fruit, vegetables, yogurt, breads, condiments? Like zilch sugar?
Side Steel is absolutely correct- moderation is the key to all foods. However, it's up to the individual to portion out their foods.
There is nothing at all wrong with sugar.
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OP starts a post calling sugar poison, then bemoans the lack of serious discourse. Next time you might trt less hyperbole and fewer scare tactics. People around here base their reaction on the tone of the first post. Start with reasoned discourse instead of sensationalist headlines and sound bites and you're more likely to get somewhere.0
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LucasEVille wrote: »
Oh my...... I gotta go. I'm laughing too hard right now at Lucas' sense of humor.
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This is the best series of gifs ever...LucasEVille wrote: »
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Got some bad news OP.
The food we consume is mostly made of water (as are we). Water is well-known to be potentially fatal in large enough doses and has been the cause of a number of deaths. Ergo, all food is poison.
BRB, breatharianism.0 -
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I think of it more as a recreational drug. :-)0
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Is that in one sitting? Because I'd like to see what a 1-2lb rat looks like after eating more than 4lbs of sugar...0 -
WATER will kill you if you drink too much at once.
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/jury-rules-radio-station-jennifer-strange-water-drinking/story?id=89707120 -
successgal1 wrote: »WATER will kill you if you drink too much at once.
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/jury-rules-radio-station-jennifer-strange-water-drinking/story?id=8970712
This isn't really news to 99% of those who frequent fitness forums, such as this.0 -
successgal1 wrote: »WATER will kill you if you drink too much at once.
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/jury-rules-radio-station-jennifer-strange-water-drinking/story?id=8970712
There is such think as water intoxication. I did not know that.0 -
My first experience of how MFP message boards aren't that much different from any other message boards! Not exactly a place for reasoned discourse, and a place for people to give opinions bare of facts and knowledge. Ah well, that's the interwebz for you. Well, if you'd like to learn more, I've provided seven references for you. If you're a historian, look up what two time Nobel Prize winner Linus Pauling said about fructose!
Linus Pauling was actually quite accomplished and well-respected, so I appreciate the opportunity to read anything he had to say on nutrition (not that I advocate the necessity of total sugar avoidance).
However, I wonder if he ever referred to sugar explicitly as "poison?" (need to look that up)
Well, even if he did, it didn't hurt his credibility any, given his achievements.
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LiminalAscendance wrote: »My first experience of how MFP message boards aren't that much different from any other message boards! Not exactly a place for reasoned discourse, and a place for people to give opinions bare of facts and knowledge. Ah well, that's the interwebz for you. Well, if you'd like to learn more, I've provided seven references for you. If you're a historian, look up what two time Nobel Prize winner Linus Pauling said about fructose!
Linus Pauling was actually quite accomplished and well-respected, so I appreciate the opportunity to read anything he had to say on nutrition (not that I advocate the necessity of total sugar avoidance).
However, I wonder if he ever referred to sugar explicitly as "poison?" (need to look that up)
Well, even if he did, it didn't hurt his credibility any, given his achievements.
In a nutshell, no, Pauling never said sugar is poison. He said that we should moderate the amount that we eat and that eating more vitamin C will help counterbalance some of the sugar as well. But as someone said above, we need moderation in everything. And it wasn't even Pauling that did the studies that most refer to with fructose - it was Milton Winitz. And you know what they ACTUALLY found? That ONLY fructose raised cholesterol and only when consumed in large quantities. Glucose (also sugar) had absolutely no effect on the cholesterol.
So, no, you can't use Pauling to back up your statement that all sugar is poison.0 -
ivygirl1937 wrote: »LiminalAscendance wrote: »My first experience of how MFP message boards aren't that much different from any other message boards! Not exactly a place for reasoned discourse, and a place for people to give opinions bare of facts and knowledge. Ah well, that's the interwebz for you. Well, if you'd like to learn more, I've provided seven references for you. If you're a historian, look up what two time Nobel Prize winner Linus Pauling said about fructose!
Linus Pauling was actually quite accomplished and well-respected, so I appreciate the opportunity to read anything he had to say on nutrition (not that I advocate the necessity of total sugar avoidance).
However, I wonder if he ever referred to sugar explicitly as "poison?" (need to look that up)
Well, even if he did, it didn't hurt his credibility any, given his achievements.
In a nutshell, no, Pauling never said sugar is poison. He said that we should moderate the amount that we eat and that eating more vitamin C will help counterbalance some of the sugar as well. But as someone said above, we need moderation in everything. And it wasn't even Pauling that did the studies that most refer to with fructose - it was Milton Winitz. And you know what they ACTUALLY found? That ONLY fructose raised cholesterol and only when consumed in large quantities. Glucose (also sugar) had absolutely no effect on the cholesterol.
So, no, you can't use Pauling to back up your statement that all sugar is poison.
Yeah, it wasn't my statement.
Actually, if you want to read what I wrote, I even said (and I'll repeat it here to save you the apparent trouble of having to dissect my earlier post) "not that I advocate the necessity of total sugar avoidance."
I don't mind being reviled for my viewpoints, but at least make sure you know what you're referring to.
For the record, I eat sugar whenever I feel like it, and never really thought Pauling referred to sugar as "poison" (he was much too educated to use such hyperbole).
In your fervor to tear apart all the anti-sugar crackpots, you assail every post that doesn't explicitly bow down to the god of sweets.
Remember that "moderation" line? It applies to more than just food, sweetie.-1 -
LiminalAscendance wrote: »ivygirl1937 wrote: »LiminalAscendance wrote: »My first experience of how MFP message boards aren't that much different from any other message boards! Not exactly a place for reasoned discourse, and a place for people to give opinions bare of facts and knowledge. Ah well, that's the interwebz for you. Well, if you'd like to learn more, I've provided seven references for you. If you're a historian, look up what two time Nobel Prize winner Linus Pauling said about fructose!
Linus Pauling was actually quite accomplished and well-respected, so I appreciate the opportunity to read anything he had to say on nutrition (not that I advocate the necessity of total sugar avoidance).
However, I wonder if he ever referred to sugar explicitly as "poison?" (need to look that up)
Well, even if he did, it didn't hurt his credibility any, given his achievements.
In a nutshell, no, Pauling never said sugar is poison. He said that we should moderate the amount that we eat and that eating more vitamin C will help counterbalance some of the sugar as well. But as someone said above, we need moderation in everything. And it wasn't even Pauling that did the studies that most refer to with fructose - it was Milton Winitz. And you know what they ACTUALLY found? That ONLY fructose raised cholesterol and only when consumed in large quantities. Glucose (also sugar) had absolutely no effect on the cholesterol.
So, no, you can't use Pauling to back up your statement that all sugar is poison.
Yeah, it wasn't my statement.
Actually, if you want to read what I wrote, I even said (and I'll repeat it here to save you the apparent trouble of having to dissect my earlier post) "not that I advocate the necessity of total sugar avoidance."
I don't mind being reviled for my viewpoints, but at least make sure you know what you're referring to.
For the record, I eat sugar whenever I feel like it, and never really thought Pauling referred to sugar as "poison" (he was much too educated to use such hyperbole).
In your fervor to tear apart all the anti-sugar crackpots, you assail every post that doesn't explicitly bow down to the god of sweets.
Remember that "moderation" line? It applies to more than just food, sweetie.
No, sorry, that was directed at the OP, not you!! I meant to quote the OP, not your post. Apologies!0 -
OP,
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This discussion has been closed.
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