Opinions / Experiance on Low Carb, High Fat, Moderate Protein Diet
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Charlottesometimes23 wrote: »
Pete Evans?foxyplayon wrote: »Great to hear all your stories.
I was very skeptical with this LCHF diet until I went on it and continually investigated its claims. I have been on it since Friday 14th November 2014. My current weight is 97.8kg down from 100kg.
I felt very lethargic in my 2-3 weeks, sometimes called "Atkins Flu" (similar to zSandman describes). Took 4 days of training off and slept. Cramping in the stomach and constipation. One day I ate my usual diet of high carbs (hoping to improve the constipation and lethargy) and felt a little better but learnt more about the Diet, finding out that I had the "Atkins Flu" from the Atkins Diet.
My vitals that I have been measuring have improved (yet to have regular blood analysis) including my Blood Pressure has improving low risk safe limits (128/73 HR40). I have had hypertension most of my life (sporting one at that) and have been taking meds for it for quite a long time (>10 years) due to my father also suffering the same. My BP has never been this good.
I am a relatively very tall large active paddler training for the Australian National Dragon Boat "Auroras" team to compete in the World Championships in August 2015. My coach before I secured my selection said he wanted me to be 95kg and have a six-pack and I was only a borderline selection. For more than 6 months leading up to the 3 day intensive selection trials on the 1st November 2014 I set MFP to 93kg goal weight starting at 104kg. Followed it religiously occasionally just going over my calorie count. During the selection camp I only got to down to just over 100kgs weight. The MFP calorie in and calories out stopped working for me? This meant my body weight bench marks tests were going to be hard as testing is based on lifting your bodyweight on Pull Ups, Bench press, situps, beep test and Paddling in a TK1 adapted kayak boat. I luckily made the the team and so my target is still to get to the 93kg weight soon and to have that 6-pack.
My doubts about the LCHF have been overcome with continuous research. I discovered that there are political reasons why the last 30 years of medical and health advice has deemed FAT the villain and the Carbohydrates as the healthy option. I have totally reversed my thinking, now with my nutrition pie chart report being dominated by villain red with a dash of blue carbohydrate. Most notable is that I don't feel the need to snack even when I am training twice a day 3 times a week and once eery other day. I have more energy and enjoy the fatty meals of scrambled eggs, bacon with all the fat, nuts, full cream milk, berries yogurt, cream, cappuccinos with a tsp of Stevia. Baked a New York Style Cheesecake for my wife's birthday, the cauliflower rice is interesting, cheese and butter on my vegetables.
Originally saw the diet on an Australia science program called
"Catalyst - LOW CARB DIET FAT OR FICTION" Thursday, 13 November 2014 http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/4126228.htm.
Other resources that have cemented my thoughts and belief are
ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT LOW CARB HIGH FAT
http://www.peterbrukner.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/All-you-need-to-know-about-LCHF1.pdf
BOOKS
The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance by Jeff Volek & Stephen Phinney
zSandman - I recommend this one for you as an athlete.
Why We Get Fat: And What to Do about It by Gary Taubes
I Quit Sugar for Life by Sarah Wilson
MOVIES
Cereal Killers http://www.cerealkillersmovie.com Highly recommended that you watch this first
Fat Head www.fathead-‐movie.com
YOUTUBE VIDEOS
Tim Noakes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IYVIdztWWs&feature=youtu.be&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3F
v%3D5IYVIdztWWs%26feature%3Dyoutu.be&app=desktop
Grant Schofield http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9Ovfw7mKR0
Gary Taubes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDneyrETR2o
David Perlmutter “Grain Brain” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2c2Oq-‐Pi2o
Wiliam Davis “Wheat Belly” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbBURnqYVzw
Jeff Volek http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GC1vMBRFiwE
Peter Brukner http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMuD4Z-‐Oxys
Peter Attia – diabetes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMhLBPPtlrY
Robert Lustig–sugar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-‐oM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8dWNbEscOw
Mary Vernon http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaquSijXJkQ
I need somebody to show me some resources to despute my findings as I'm quite convinced otherwise.
Cheers
Succeeding to date LCHF dieter and MFP user
Lol...sorry but this sounds like the stuff he peddles. Grain brain, wheat belly, I quit sugar, Lustig, etc.
When I'm on my laptop, and not iPad, I'll post some evidence to the contrary...unless someone beats me to it.
What's to dispute? He is healthy and performing well. Nobody's saying ketogenic diets are the only one or the best one. It's one road among many roads leading to health.0 -
baconslave wrote: »Charlottesometimes23 wrote: »
Pete Evans?foxyplayon wrote: »Great to hear all your stories.
I was very skeptical with this LCHF diet until I went on it and continually investigated its claims. I have been on it since Friday 14th November 2014. My current weight is 97.8kg down from 100kg.
I felt very lethargic in my 2-3 weeks, sometimes called "Atkins Flu" (similar to zSandman describes). Took 4 days of training off and slept. Cramping in the stomach and constipation. One day I ate my usual diet of high carbs (hoping to improve the constipation and lethargy) and felt a little better but learnt more about the Diet, finding out that I had the "Atkins Flu" from the Atkins Diet.
My vitals that I have been measuring have improved (yet to have regular blood analysis) including my Blood Pressure has improving low risk safe limits (128/73 HR40). I have had hypertension most of my life (sporting one at that) and have been taking meds for it for quite a long time (>10 years) due to my father also suffering the same. My BP has never been this good.
I am a relatively very tall large active paddler training for the Australian National Dragon Boat "Auroras" team to compete in the World Championships in August 2015. My coach before I secured my selection said he wanted me to be 95kg and have a six-pack and I was only a borderline selection. For more than 6 months leading up to the 3 day intensive selection trials on the 1st November 2014 I set MFP to 93kg goal weight starting at 104kg. Followed it religiously occasionally just going over my calorie count. During the selection camp I only got to down to just over 100kgs weight. The MFP calorie in and calories out stopped working for me? This meant my body weight bench marks tests were going to be hard as testing is based on lifting your bodyweight on Pull Ups, Bench press, situps, beep test and Paddling in a TK1 adapted kayak boat. I luckily made the the team and so my target is still to get to the 93kg weight soon and to have that 6-pack.
My doubts about the LCHF have been overcome with continuous research. I discovered that there are political reasons why the last 30 years of medical and health advice has deemed FAT the villain and the Carbohydrates as the healthy option. I have totally reversed my thinking, now with my nutrition pie chart report being dominated by villain red with a dash of blue carbohydrate. Most notable is that I don't feel the need to snack even when I am training twice a day 3 times a week and once eery other day. I have more energy and enjoy the fatty meals of scrambled eggs, bacon with all the fat, nuts, full cream milk, berries yogurt, cream, cappuccinos with a tsp of Stevia. Baked a New York Style Cheesecake for my wife's birthday, the cauliflower rice is interesting, cheese and butter on my vegetables.
Originally saw the diet on an Australia science program called
"Catalyst - LOW CARB DIET FAT OR FICTION" Thursday, 13 November 2014 http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/4126228.htm.
Other resources that have cemented my thoughts and belief are
ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT LOW CARB HIGH FAT
http://www.peterbrukner.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/All-you-need-to-know-about-LCHF1.pdf
BOOKS
The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance by Jeff Volek & Stephen Phinney
zSandman - I recommend this one for you as an athlete.
Why We Get Fat: And What to Do about It by Gary Taubes
I Quit Sugar for Life by Sarah Wilson
MOVIES
Cereal Killers http://www.cerealkillersmovie.com Highly recommended that you watch this first
Fat Head www.fathead-‐movie.com
YOUTUBE VIDEOS
Tim Noakes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IYVIdztWWs&feature=youtu.be&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3F
v%3D5IYVIdztWWs%26feature%3Dyoutu.be&app=desktop
Grant Schofield http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9Ovfw7mKR0
Gary Taubes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDneyrETR2o
David Perlmutter “Grain Brain” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2c2Oq-‐Pi2o
Wiliam Davis “Wheat Belly” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbBURnqYVzw
Jeff Volek http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GC1vMBRFiwE
Peter Brukner http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMuD4Z-‐Oxys
Peter Attia – diabetes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMhLBPPtlrY
Robert Lustig–sugar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-‐oM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8dWNbEscOw
Mary Vernon http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaquSijXJkQ
I need somebody to show me some resources to despute my findings as I'm quite convinced otherwise.
Cheers
Succeeding to date LCHF dieter and MFP user
Lol...sorry but this sounds like the stuff he peddles. Grain brain, wheat belly, I quit sugar, Lustig, etc.
When I'm on my laptop, and not iPad, I'll post some evidence to the contrary...unless someone beats me to it.
What's to dispute? He is healthy and performing well. Nobody's saying ketogenic diets are the only one or the best one. It's one road among many roads leading to health.
As a fellow Australian with an Australian perspective, it is clear that he has been influenced by a recent controversial Catalyst program and Pete Evans, a Paleo celeb chef who regularly makes a twit of himself due to his lack of nutrition knowledge and conspiracy theories. His readings are full of what could be considered pseudoscience (eg. I Quit Sugar) and he appeared open to other perspectives. Do you have a problem with a balanced perspective?
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foxyplayon wrote: »Great to hear all your stories.
I was very skeptical with this LCHF diet until I went on it and continually investigated its claims. I have been on it since Friday 14th November 2014. My current weight is 97.8kg down from 100kg.
I felt very lethargic in my 2-3 weeks, sometimes called "Atkins Flu" (similar to zSandman describes). Took 4 days of training off and slept. Cramping in the stomach and constipation. One day I ate my usual diet of high carbs (hoping to improve the constipation and lethargy) and felt a little better but learnt more about the Diet, finding out that I had the "Atkins Flu" from the Atkins Diet.
My vitals that I have been measuring have improved (yet to have regular blood analysis) including my Blood Pressure has improving low risk safe limits (128/73 HR40). I have had hypertension most of my life (sporting one at that) and have been taking meds for it for quite a long time (>10 years) due to my father also suffering the same. My BP has never been this good.
I am a relatively very tall large active paddler training for the Australian National Dragon Boat "Auroras" team to compete in the World Championships in August 2015. My coach before I secured my selection said he wanted me to be 95kg and have a six-pack and I was only a borderline selection. For more than 6 months leading up to the 3 day intensive selection trials on the 1st November 2014 I set MFP to 93kg goal weight starting at 104kg. Followed it religiously occasionally just going over my calorie count. During the selection camp I only got to down to just over 100kgs weight. The MFP calorie in and calories out stopped working for me? This meant my body weight bench marks tests were going to be hard as testing is based on lifting your bodyweight on Pull Ups, Bench press, situps, beep test and Paddling in a TK1 adapted kayak boat. I luckily made the the team and so my target is still to get to the 93kg weight soon and to have that 6-pack.
My doubts about the LCHF have been overcome with continuous research. I discovered that there are political reasons why the last 30 years of medical and health advice has deemed FAT the villain and the Carbohydrates as the healthy option. I have totally reversed my thinking, now with my nutrition pie chart report being dominated by villain red with a dash of blue carbohydrate. Most notable is that I don't feel the need to snack even when I am training twice a day 3 times a week and once eery other day. I have more energy and enjoy the fatty meals of scrambled eggs, bacon with all the fat, nuts, full cream milk, berries yogurt, cream, cappuccinos with a tsp of Stevia. Baked a New York Style Cheesecake for my wife's birthday, the cauliflower rice is interesting, cheese and butter on my vegetables.
Originally saw the diet on an Australia science program called
"Catalyst - LOW CARB DIET FAT OR FICTION" Thursday, 13 November 2014 http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/4126228.htm.
Other resources that have cemented my thoughts and belief are
ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT LOW CARB HIGH FAT
http://www.peterbrukner.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/All-you-need-to-know-about-LCHF1.pdf
BOOKS
The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance by Jeff Volek & Stephen Phinney
zSandman - I recommend this one for you as an athlete.
Why We Get Fat: And What to Do about It by Gary Taubes
I Quit Sugar for Life by Sarah Wilson
MOVIES
Cereal Killers http://www.cerealkillersmovie.com Highly recommended that you watch this first
Fat Head www.fathead-‐movie.com
YOUTUBE VIDEOS
Tim Noakes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IYVIdztWWs&feature=youtu.be&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3F
v%3D5IYVIdztWWs%26feature%3Dyoutu.be&app=desktop
Grant Schofield http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9Ovfw7mKR0
Gary Taubes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDneyrETR2o
David Perlmutter “Grain Brain” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2c2Oq-‐Pi2o
Wiliam Davis “Wheat Belly” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbBURnqYVzw
Jeff Volek http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GC1vMBRFiwE
Peter Brukner http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMuD4Z-‐Oxys
Peter Attia – diabetes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMhLBPPtlrY
Robert Lustig–sugar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-‐oM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8dWNbEscOw
Mary Vernon http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaquSijXJkQ
I need somebody to show me some resources to despute my findings as I'm quite convinced otherwise.
Cheers
Succeeding to date LCHF dieter and MFP user
If you are interested in reading other perspectives, thinkingnutrition.com.au/ written by Tim Crowe an Associate Professor in Nutrition in the School of Exercise and Nutrition Sciences at Deakin University in Melbourne and Accredited Practising Dietitian is excellent IMO.
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Charlottesometimes23 wrote: »baconslave wrote: »Charlottesometimes23 wrote: »
Pete Evans?foxyplayon wrote: »Great to hear all your stories.
I was very skeptical with this LCHF diet until I went on it and continually investigated its claims. I have been on it since Friday 14th November 2014. My current weight is 97.8kg down from 100kg.
I felt very lethargic in my 2-3 weeks, sometimes called "Atkins Flu" (similar to zSandman describes). Took 4 days of training off and slept. Cramping in the stomach and constipation. One day I ate my usual diet of high carbs (hoping to improve the constipation and lethargy) and felt a little better but learnt more about the Diet, finding out that I had the "Atkins Flu" from the Atkins Diet.
My vitals that I have been measuring have improved (yet to have regular blood analysis) including my Blood Pressure has improving low risk safe limits (128/73 HR40). I have had hypertension most of my life (sporting one at that) and have been taking meds for it for quite a long time (>10 years) due to my father also suffering the same. My BP has never been this good.
I am a relatively very tall large active paddler training for the Australian National Dragon Boat "Auroras" team to compete in the World Championships in August 2015. My coach before I secured my selection said he wanted me to be 95kg and have a six-pack and I was only a borderline selection. For more than 6 months leading up to the 3 day intensive selection trials on the 1st November 2014 I set MFP to 93kg goal weight starting at 104kg. Followed it religiously occasionally just going over my calorie count. During the selection camp I only got to down to just over 100kgs weight. The MFP calorie in and calories out stopped working for me? This meant my body weight bench marks tests were going to be hard as testing is based on lifting your bodyweight on Pull Ups, Bench press, situps, beep test and Paddling in a TK1 adapted kayak boat. I luckily made the the team and so my target is still to get to the 93kg weight soon and to have that 6-pack.
My doubts about the LCHF have been overcome with continuous research. I discovered that there are political reasons why the last 30 years of medical and health advice has deemed FAT the villain and the Carbohydrates as the healthy option. I have totally reversed my thinking, now with my nutrition pie chart report being dominated by villain red with a dash of blue carbohydrate. Most notable is that I don't feel the need to snack even when I am training twice a day 3 times a week and once eery other day. I have more energy and enjoy the fatty meals of scrambled eggs, bacon with all the fat, nuts, full cream milk, berries yogurt, cream, cappuccinos with a tsp of Stevia. Baked a New York Style Cheesecake for my wife's birthday, the cauliflower rice is interesting, cheese and butter on my vegetables.
Originally saw the diet on an Australia science program called
"Catalyst - LOW CARB DIET FAT OR FICTION" Thursday, 13 November 2014 http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/4126228.htm.
Other resources that have cemented my thoughts and belief are
ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT LOW CARB HIGH FAT
http://www.peterbrukner.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/All-you-need-to-know-about-LCHF1.pdf
BOOKS
The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance by Jeff Volek & Stephen Phinney
zSandman - I recommend this one for you as an athlete.
Why We Get Fat: And What to Do about It by Gary Taubes
I Quit Sugar for Life by Sarah Wilson
MOVIES
Cereal Killers http://www.cerealkillersmovie.com Highly recommended that you watch this first
Fat Head www.fathead-‐movie.com
YOUTUBE VIDEOS
Tim Noakes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IYVIdztWWs&feature=youtu.be&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3F
v%3D5IYVIdztWWs%26feature%3Dyoutu.be&app=desktop
Grant Schofield http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9Ovfw7mKR0
Gary Taubes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDneyrETR2o
David Perlmutter “Grain Brain” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2c2Oq-‐Pi2o
Wiliam Davis “Wheat Belly” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbBURnqYVzw
Jeff Volek http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GC1vMBRFiwE
Peter Brukner http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMuD4Z-‐Oxys
Peter Attia – diabetes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMhLBPPtlrY
Robert Lustig–sugar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-‐oM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8dWNbEscOw
Mary Vernon http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaquSijXJkQ
I need somebody to show me some resources to despute my findings as I'm quite convinced otherwise.
Cheers
Succeeding to date LCHF dieter and MFP user
Lol...sorry but this sounds like the stuff he peddles. Grain brain, wheat belly, I quit sugar, Lustig, etc.
When I'm on my laptop, and not iPad, I'll post some evidence to the contrary...unless someone beats me to it.
What's to dispute? He is healthy and performing well. Nobody's saying ketogenic diets are the only one or the best one. It's one road among many roads leading to health.
As a fellow Australian with an Australian perspective, it is clear that he has been influenced by a recent controversial Catalyst program and Pete Evans, a Paleo celeb chef who regularly makes a twit of himself due to his lack of nutrition knowledge. His readings are full of what could be considered pseudoscience (eg. I Quit Sugar) and he appeared open to other perspectives. Do you have a problem with a balanced perspective?
Nope.0 -
I don't know but your protein sounds high not moderate to me. There should be a percentage thing going on. % calories from carbs, % cals from fat and % cals from protein. If your protein is more than your fat, then you are doing high protein.
Secondly you should understand that protein will be converted to energy if there is insufficient fat to meet the needs of your body.
You should not eat more protein than you actually need because this is overworking the kidneys and if following this regimen in the longterm could lead to kidney problems. So protein must be sensible. Find out how much is recommended for men. this should apply to all of us whether on low carb or not. That's the base line. If you are doing a lot of exercise, then you can increase your protein intake. But try to follow guidelines on this. With that said, in the beginning of your low carb experience, i have understood that a bit higher protein is required until your body is producing ketones. this is about fuelling the brain.
When not on low carb, the body uses carbs for fuel. When you start low carb, your brain suddenly loses its main fuel source. This needs to be addressed with a bit more protein until you body starts producing ketones. When your body is producing ketones, these will fuel your brain. You can feel it if your brain is underfed. You will feel mentally sluggish, tired and a bit stupid if you are trying to do anything that requires mental effort, and possibly other symptoms.
Personally i found it hard to eat only 40-50grams of carbs a day at the 2 week mark because of the restrictions on food choices. If you find the same thing, you can increase your carbs. but you should do it gradually if you don't want to throw yourself out of ketosis and then following the atkins protocol is probably the best idea.
You can get into ketosis by not going so low as 20-50g. It just takes longer. If your only aim is to lose fat, then there's absolutely no reason why you can't be eating at much higher carbs than you currently are. I can assure that if the only carbs you eat are vegetables with a little fruit, you will not have the sugar cravings you had before and you will find it fairly easy to stay on this regime if you are enjoying your food choices.
My first try with low carb was at 100 carbs a day and i really enjoyed it. If i was you, i would go to around 80carbs. And if you are not happy with it, then reduce or increase your carbs.
Finally for the long term you should understand the value and importance of fibre in your diet. If you are eating a real low carb level, you are not getting enough fibre. Watch this show: catalyst - gut reaction on you tube. its very good and enlightening. There's a whole big project going on in america which deals with this subject. If i was american, i'd get involved. Look up gut flora on wikipedia.
Calories still matter on low carb. The main benefit is that it helps you manage your appetite. AFter this experience, if you come of it, continue to avoid the refined sugars you are doing on low carb. These are the main problems with food cravings. Mood is another one.
I like the site by phlaunt.com she has a good macro and calorie calculator.0 -
Charlotte, its ok to put the other side, but as someone who was a huge skeptic on low carb for most of the year and then decided to have a go to satisfy my curiosity, i would suggest at least reading some of those links above. To me it doesn't matter if not all elements of the arguments are tight. But there are useful things to learn from having a low carb experience.
I have noticed its often the case that when someone is promoting a diet they will say things that grate, the arguments often seem exaggerated and details left out. I think its because of the limitations of the medium. There may be some silly things said, that doesn't mean the whole package should be ignored.
But i do think that people who vigorously try to debunk the project should read some of the stuff the advocates are writing rather than just what expert opponents say because they have an agenda too. Everyone does. Its worth doing the reading and testing for yourself. There's a lot of people even in the science and diet community who are vigorously defending the status quo and you can tell from what they are saying that they haven't read very deeply. e.g. lately an article by Dr Karl.0 -
If you are interested in reading other perspectives, thinkingnutrition.com.au/ written by Tim Crowe an Associate Professor in Nutrition in the School of Exercise and Nutrition Sciences at Deakin University in Melbourne and Accredited Practising Dietitian is excellent IMO.
[/quote]
Thanks Charlotte I went straight to the site and discovered a different perspective. Investigating again. One paper that caught my eye was "One diet to rule them all"thinkingnutrition.com.au/best-diet-for-health/
Conclusion
The evidence for Optimal eating is associated with increased life expectancy, dramatic reduction in lifetime risk of all chronic disease, and amelioration of gene expression.
ANSWER
A dietary pattern that is made up of mostly unprocessed plant foods and which is low in highly processed foods and sugar consistently comes out on top in offering the best long-term health. There is no one food or food group that deserves demonising. A dietary pattern is a flexible way of eating, not a set of rules that has to be followed to the letter of the law.
NOTE
It definitely wasn't Pete Evans that made me look into it. It was the Australian team Doctor Dr Peter Brukner and Shane Watson. My main concerns was the eating of a high fat diet
would make me fat and give me a heart attack. I used Dr Peter Brukner's ideas and blog to get me started.
ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT LOW CARB HIGH FAT
http://www.peterbrukner.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/All-you-need-to-know-about-LCHF1.pdf
I was only genuinely interested in Pete Evans for some recipe ideas - he is more Paleo chef which is slightly different to LCHF. There's heaps of websites with LCHF recipe ideas.
Being a trained environmental scientist and science teacher I tried to look into the science behind things. Trying to get through the reading is impossible let alone decipher the Fact from Sociology of scientific knowledge from Scammers to just those wanting to take your money. I am now the guinea pig of my own experiment. Myth busting is in my blood.
Thanks for the further discussion Good people. I continue the experiment.
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Patttience wrote: »Charlotte, its ok to put the other side, but as someone who was a huge skeptic on low carb for most of the year and then decided to have a go to satisfy my curiosity, i would suggest at least reading some of those links above. To me it doesn't matter if not all elements of the arguments are tight. But there are useful things to learn from having a low carb experience.
I have noticed its often the case that when someone is promoting a diet they will say things that grate, the arguments often seem exaggerated and details left out. I think its because of the limitations of the medium. There may be some silly things said, that doesn't mean the whole package should be ignored.
But i do think that people who vigorously try to debunk the project should read some of the stuff the advocates are writing rather than just what expert opponents say because they have an agenda too. Everyone does. Its worth doing the reading and testing for yourself. There's a lot of people even in the science and diet community who are vigorously defending the status quo and you can tell from what they are saying that they haven't read very deeply. e.g. lately an article by Dr Karl.
I'm not a low carb skeptic. I understand that it works for some people. I find however, that some of the proponents of the approach, such as Pete Evans, are almost cult-like in their evangelical inability to see another perspective. That, along with the fear-mongering and conspiracy theories that they propose, rings alarm bells to me. It's not black and white, as suggested by the low carb evangelists. It's reasonable to consider different perspectives, which is what I was proposing with regards to foxyplayon's post.
I have read part of I Quit Sugar (terrible pseudoscience), and although I missed the Catalyst show on low carb diets, I have read the full transcript from the show. I have seen Lustig's "the Bitter Truth" on youtube and I follow Pete Evans shenanigans. I'm not sure why you assumed I spoke out of ignorance. Have you had a look at the blog I linked?
Anyway, thanks for OK'ing my attempt at linking some reading that may provide some balance....geez......I thought I read the word 'opinions' in the OP.
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Just try it and see how you feel.
Personally when I was dieting to lose weight, I found going low fat didn't make me feel too good. I'd see a lot of people dieting and regularly eating 40g of fat or less.. but that just wasn't for me. I kept my protein the same, dropped my carbs a good bit, upped my fats to a minimum of 80g, and felt a lot better.0 -
I go for moderate fat, moderate protein, moderate carb. That way I can eat what I like best, which is everything
Excessive protein will be treated as energy, either burned or stored. That seems like waste to me. Carb and fat is cheap and just as delicious as protein. 0 -
Like Chris Kresser said it so nicely: When it comes to diet, there is no one-size-fits-all approach! If you feel good with it, then why not! Some do fantastically well with low carb diets, others with vegetarian, etc... There is a reason why there are so many different diets out there, because there are also so many different people! I keep my carbs between 20 and 50 grams as well, that works best for me, too high and I gain, too low and I become sluggish with zero energy.0
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I've also been inspired by the Catalyst episode. Having tried just about every trick in the book, except this, with little to no result. I have now lost 4 kg since 18th November. I fluctuated with water weight, which is what you supposedly lose straight away as the body rids glycogen from the liver etc. It went up for a week, but has come back down again after a little bit of gym work , and a few tweaks. MFP is a must have tool for this diet in my opinion. There are plenty of blogs and stuff that can give your your macro settings.
You can see where you may be over doing it or lacking in some things. It's easy once you get over the lack of Beer. haha.0 -
At the start of my weight loss earlier this year I ate low carb (50- 100g), moderate protein and high fat. I could not believe how easy it was to adhere to a deficit, and some days I even worried was I eating enough, especially at the start. Over the space of 4 months or so, and with a hefty dose of excercise thrown in, I lost just over 30lbs.
My personal experience is that while low carb does not eliminate the base requirement to eat at a caloric deficit to lose weight, it sure makes it easy to easy to adhere to that deficit. In addition, I found that with fats, meats, dairy, eggs and nuts & seeds being the backbone of my diet when on low carb, I was quite conscious to balance that, and found I ate more vegetables, and more healthily (imo), than I did even previously where I focussed on healthier foods in my previous high carb, moderate protein, low- moderate fat intake.
Also, something I do not see mentioned as much, and something I found a big benefit, were the effects on my blood sugar stability, as while I do not/ did not have any blood sugar issues, I just found eating low carb gave me an abundant amount of energy, with no dips of any sort.
I would say like any programme of diet/ exercise, give it a decent shot, and see if it's for you. I gave it 3/ 4 weeks at the start, and liked it, so continued it. In fact the only reason I moved from eating low carb, was so I could move towards eating more moderate amounts of carbs and re-introducing foods in preparation for maintenance. That turned out to be a bit premature in my case, as I've come to realise the goal I was previously aiming for was about 20lbs higher than my ultimate goal I would like to reach, and thus have revised my plans, and actually looking at transitioning back to low carb again to lose the final 11lbs I wish to
A good site/ primer on many of the aspects of low carb is authoritynutrition.com (http://authoritynutrition.com/low-carbohydrate-diets/).
I would add if you plan to stick to low-carb, even just for a few weeks to see how it goes, to be prepared for something called the 'keto-flu'. There's a bit been written on it in various places, but in my experience I experienced cold-like symptoms for a few days in the first 7/ 10 days, which I attribute to my body switching over from its usual primary energy source (burning carbs) to it's secondary one (burning fat). It's no big deal, but forearmed is forewarned and all that. Also, I found after 3/ 4 weeks in my own case, I got a second little bout of 'keto-flu' which I attribute to my body simply optimising itself for fat burning. It's a little like switching over to the emergency generator with the first bout of the 'flu', then the second bout setting you up for the long haul when it realises the carbs aren't coming back anytime soon
Anyway, it may or may not be for you, but imagine you will know once you give it a decent shot. I was cynical about low carb for a long time, and there's a little of hate (unreasonably so, imo) out there for low carb, but after trying it, I found it suited me quite well, at least in the short/ medium term, and really had nothing to be so worried about. To anyone that wants to try it, I would say to simply lower your carbs bit by bit, until you reach a point you are happy to stay at. That was 50- 100g of net carbs for me, and seemed to be my happy medium. Many drop below 50g and even 20g, and it works well for them, so it's different for everyone, just as simply eating 100g- 200g works for many others. I will add I never experienced any of the typical low carb afflictions like bad breath/ poor skin/ etc, but not sure if that was more related to my general carb level, or just me.
Hope this helps 0 -
I've also been inspired by the Catalyst episode. Having tried just about every trick in the book, except this, with little to no result. I have now lost 4 kg since 18th November. I fluctuated with water weight, which is what you supposedly lose straight away as the body rids glycogen from the liver etc. It went up for a week, but has come back down again after a little bit of gym work , and a few tweaks. MFP is a must have tool for this diet in my opinion. There are plenty of blogs and stuff that can give your your macro settings.
You can see where you may be over doing it or lacking in some things. It's easy once you get over the lack of Beer. haha.
Agreed cowgurl! MFP keeps a good record of the Macros. I've set MFP to 60% Fat, 25% Protein and 15% Carbs. Keep my fibre in check with the right veggies cooked with meat or butter or cheese.
Good work Friends!0 -
I do agree this is a pretty big diet change for someone without much weight (if any) to lose. Hard to sustain over time, but if it works for you I guess more power to you. One food I love in my diet are coconut chips/flakes. You can order on amazon. Very nice source of dietary fat. Not sure if they have too many carbs for a low-carber though (4g carbs to 10g fat)0
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Do you intend to eat that way forever? Watch out for yo-yo dieting. Once you start eating more carbs again, you will likely gain it back if you don't keep an eye on the calorie counting. Low carb forever is not for everyone.0
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foxyplayon wrote: »Great to hear all your stories.
I was very skeptical with this LCHF diet until I went on it and continually investigated its claims. I have been on it since Friday 14th November 2014. My current weight is 97.8kg down from 100kg.
I felt very lethargic in my 2-3 weeks, sometimes called "Atkins Flu" (similar to zSandman describes). Took 4 days of training off and slept. Cramping in the stomach and constipation. One day I ate my usual diet of high carbs (hoping to improve the constipation and lethargy) and felt a little better but learnt more about the Diet, finding out that I had the "Atkins Flu" from the Atkins Diet.
My vitals that I have been measuring have improved (yet to have regular blood analysis) including my Blood Pressure has improving low risk safe limits (128/73 HR40). I have had hypertension most of my life (sporting one at that) and have been taking meds for it for quite a long time (>10 years) due to my father also suffering the same. My BP has never been this good.
I am a relatively very tall large active paddler training for the Australian National Dragon Boat "Auroras" team to compete in the World Championships in August 2015. My coach before I secured my selection said he wanted me to be 95kg and have a six-pack and I was only a borderline selection. For more than 6 months leading up to the 3 day intensive selection trials on the 1st November 2014 I set MFP to 93kg goal weight starting at 104kg. Followed it religiously occasionally just going over my calorie count. During the selection camp I only got to down to just over 100kgs weight. The MFP calorie in and calories out stopped working for me? This meant my body weight bench marks tests were going to be hard as testing is based on lifting your bodyweight on Pull Ups, Bench press, situps, beep test and Paddling in a TK1 adapted kayak boat. I luckily made the the team and so my target is still to get to the 93kg weight soon and to have that 6-pack.
My doubts about the LCHF have been overcome with continuous research. I discovered that there are political reasons why the last 30 years of medical and health advice has deemed FAT the villain and the Carbohydrates as the healthy option. I have totally reversed my thinking, now with my nutrition pie chart report being dominated by villain red with a dash of blue carbohydrate. Most notable is that I don't feel the need to snack even when I am training twice a day 3 times a week and once eery other day. I have more energy and enjoy the fatty meals of scrambled eggs, bacon with all the fat, nuts, full cream milk, berries yogurt, cream, cappuccinos with a tsp of Stevia. Baked a New York Style Cheesecake for my wife's birthday, the cauliflower rice is interesting, cheese and butter on my vegetables.
Originally saw the diet on an Australia science program called
"Catalyst - LOW CARB DIET FAT OR FICTION" Thursday, 13 November 2014 http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/4126228.htm.
Other resources that have cemented my thoughts and belief are
ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT LOW CARB HIGH FAT
http://www.peterbrukner.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/All-you-need-to-know-about-LCHF1.pdf
BOOKS
The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance by Jeff Volek & Stephen Phinney
zSandman - I recommend this one for you as an athlete.
Why We Get Fat: And What to Do about It by Gary Taubes
I Quit Sugar for Life by Sarah Wilson
MOVIES
Cereal Killers http://www.cerealkillersmovie.com Highly recommended that you watch this first
Fat Head www.fathead-‐movie.com
YOUTUBE VIDEOS
Tim Noakes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IYVIdztWWs&feature=youtu.be&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3F
v%3D5IYVIdztWWs%26feature%3Dyoutu.be&app=desktop
Grant Schofield http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9Ovfw7mKR0
Gary Taubes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDneyrETR2o
David Perlmutter “Grain Brain” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2c2Oq-‐Pi2o
Wiliam Davis “Wheat Belly” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbBURnqYVzw
Jeff Volek http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GC1vMBRFiwE
Peter Brukner http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMuD4Z-‐Oxys
Peter Attia – diabetes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMhLBPPtlrY
Robert Lustig–sugar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-‐oM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8dWNbEscOw
Mary Vernon http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaquSijXJkQ
I need somebody to show me some resources to despute my findings as I'm quite convinced otherwise.
Cheers
Succeeding to date LCHF dieter and MFP user
Lmao, if you haven't found anything to dispute the nonsensical resources you posted above, you're not very good at researching.
Protein is highly insulinogenic, Whoops there goes the premise of fathead and taubes. Did you actually read the full studies grain brain and wheat belly reference? The authors totally misrepresent the findings of those studies and are essentially works of fiction. LOLstig? You haven't found a shred of evidence to dispute his nonsense? Lol
Volek and Phinney? Wonder where they get their funding from and if there's anything noticeable in their study designs, hmm
I have not read the Wilson book, but she eats zero carb? Carbs are sugars you know, right?0 -
Protein is highly insulinogenic, Whoops there goes the premise of fathead and taubes.
Protein stimulates insulin response with a counteracting glucagon response leaving blood sugar the same.
Carbohydrates stimulate insulin response to store the carbs / reduce fat oxidation and bring down the elevated blood glucose from the carb intake, with less/no glucagon response.
LCHF diets are more about the fat than protein, and the insulin response to cream is not significant despite some lactose and casein presence :
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foxyplayon wrote: »
Thanks Charlotte I went straight to the site and discovered a different perspective. Investigating again. One paper that caught my eye was "One diet to rule them all"thinkingnutrition.com.au/best-diet-for-health/
Conclusion
The evidence for Optimal eating is associated with increased life expectancy, dramatic reduction in lifetime risk of all chronic disease, and amelioration of gene expression.
ANSWER
A dietary pattern that is made up of mostly unprocessed plant foods and which is low in highly processed foods and sugar consistently comes out on top in offering the best long-term health. There is no one food or food group that deserves demonising. A dietary pattern is a flexible way of eating, not a set of rules that has to be followed to the letter of the law.
I absolutely agree with this provided that the term processed is applied with common sense eg. frozen veges may be considered processed but can be better than fresh from a micronutrient perspective.foxyplayon wrote: »
NOTE
It definitely wasn't Pete Evans that made me look into it. It was the Australian team Doctor Dr Peter Brukner and Shane Watson. My main concerns was the eating of a high fat diet
would make me fat and give me a heart attack. I used Dr Peter Brukner's ideas and blog to get me started.
ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT LOW CARB HIGH FAT
http://www.peterbrukner.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/All-you-need-to-know-about-LCHF1.pdf
I was only genuinely interested in Pete Evans for some recipe ideas - he is more Paleo chef which is slightly different to LCHF. There's heaps of websites with LCHF recipe ideas.
Saturated fats
I'm not yet convinced that saturated fat is fine to eat all you want. I don't believe that there's enough evidence yet. For example, the large meta-analysis which was one of the crucial studies proposing the safety of dietary saturated fat has been described as flawed. news.sciencemag.org/health/2014/03/scientists-fix-errors-controversial-paper-about-saturated-fats.
Fructose is not harmful
Peter Brukner's quote "Most fruit contains fructose a carbohydrate even more harmful than glucose." suggests to me that he is not very credible and is caught up in the Lustig fructose fear-mongering mindset.
Pete Evans was featured in the Catalyst episode, which I don't think did the show any favours. news.com.au/lifestyle/health/abcs-catalyst-program-under-fire-over-pushing-controversial-low-carbohydrate-diet/story-fneuzkvr-1227123069356foxyplayon wrote: »
Being a trained environmental scientist and science teacher I tried to look into the science behind things. Trying to get through the reading is impossible let alone decipher the Fact from Sociology of scientific knowledge from Scammers to just those wanting to take your money. I am now the guinea pig of my own experiment. Myth busting is in my blood.
Thanks for the further discussion Good people. I continue the experiment.
Fair enough, but it's always good to see different arguments, and make sure that you are well read on the possible consequences of drastically reducing carbs (eg. limiting phytochemicals, perhaps some micronutrients, folate is one that comes to mind, possibly altering/restricting the species variety of your gut flora humanfoodproject.com/sorry-low-carbers-your-microbiome-is-just-not-that-into-you/ etc.
Anyway, best of luck with your myth busting experiment.0 -
Lmao, if you haven't found anything to dispute the nonsensical resources you posted above, you're not very good at researching.
Protein is highly insulinogenic, Whoops there goes the premise of fathead and taubes. Did you actually read the full studies grain brain and wheat belly reference? The authors totally misrepresent the findings of those studies and are essentially works of fiction. LOLstig? You haven't found a shred of evidence to dispute his nonsense? Lol
Volek and Phinney? Wonder where they get their funding from and if there's anything noticeable in their study designs, hmm
I have not read the Wilson book, but she eats zero carb? Carbs are sugars you know, right? [/quote]
Thanks for your input Acg67. No I have not read full studies as yet or read them all. But will get around to them as I continue my own experiment and researching. Its great that you have a different view that I will investigate. No I haven't found a shred of evidence to dispute them. Could you please help me here. It is obvious you have.
Where do Volek and Phinney get there funding from?
Yes I know carbs are sugars? How does one eat no carbs?
You know that fat/lipids are made up of the same elements as carbs and they break down to carbon dioxide and water.
Lucky I'm not eating as much protein as the carbs like I used to (imagine my insulin then)
I assume it would peak exactly the same as carbs insulinogenic properties. I guess I'm also lucky that I'm focusing on eating fats then.
With my goal to drop my fat content I guess it's working for me. My major concern was with my HDL and LDL markers and atherosclerosis formation, my energy levels and general wellbeing. The documentary Cereal Killers (2013) and some other research (I forget who but it was probably Taubes/Volek) that there are 2 types of LDL, fluffy large and high density/small. If the small is relatively lower then the fluffy type then your supposedly not at a high risk of disease. True?
I need somebody to show me some resources to despute my findings as I'm STILL quite convinced otherwise. Acg67 what do you do differently as something else must be working for? How much does laughing your *kitten* off lose in fat?
Thanks Charlottesometimes23 for your constructive thoughts and giving me more to practice my research skills, which is time consuming. Wish I could give up my day job.
Cheers and Thanks
Succeeding to date LCHF dieter and MFP user0
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