Article on clean eating
Gidzmo
Posts: 905 Member
My health-insurance provider sends out a blog periodically. This month's blog including this article on clean eating. Also included was a critique on clean eating.
healthnetpulse.com/member/2014/10/16/clean-eating-sounds-good-but-is-it/
healthnetpulse.com/member/2014/10/16/clean-eating-sounds-good-but-is-it/
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Replies
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Clean eating is a hot topic right now. Looking at how my Grandparents, who were farmers, ate, they were "Clean Eating" before it was trendy. Even as a child we ate pretty clean. Most veggies were from our own gardens and my Mom and Grandma spent days on end every summer canning and freezing them to last the winter and spring until the next year's harvest. Other than salad veggies and, for some reason peas, we never purchased commercially canned veggies.
We got our chicken and eggs from Grandma. These were free range, non-hormone/antibiotic fed chickens. All terms that were unknown at the time. It is just how family farms did things. Our pork and beef all came from the farm as well.
Even our noodles were homemade (OK...I still do this) and Grandma cooked with LARD (oh the horror!) rendered from their hogs. There were no "diet" foods, nothing labeled "fat free" or "low fat". And yet they were in better health than the general population these days. Coincidence? I think not.
My Aunt and Uncle had bees and we always had good raw honey.
Clean Eating is not new...just new to this day and age. Convenience foods that we all know and sometimes love, have taken us away from eating clean like our grandparents did.
I am working with an Employee Health and Wellness nurse at work on my weight loss. This week's topic for discussion was Clean Eating. Her interpretation of this is eating food close to it's natural state. This doesn't mean that all packaged foods are not clean. You have to look at the label. If it is as long as your arm and has ingredients that look like they come from a chemistry book, it probably isn't clean. Canned/frozen fruits and veggies are fine as long as the are not in some kind of sauce and don't have preservatives. Try to use more whole grains when choosing breads, cereals, and pastas. When you need to sweeten something try to avoid refined sugars. I use local, raw honey or raw sugar on the rare occasions that I do add sweetener.
I make my own salad dressings. While they are not fat free, they are preservative free and I can control sodium and sugar content.
One point our nurse did make is that is is difficult to be 100% clean, whatever your interpretation of that term is. She said to strive for 85% clean.
I have lost about 45 lbs.
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Eat a well balanced diet from a variety of food groups. That is what the article is saying Good advice. Too often I hear people talk about "Clean" eating but they are talking more about Paleo diet... I think any little change you can make add up to big ones in the end.0
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Just wondering why if she is talking about the healthy benefits of 'clean eating' she then tells you not to forget the vitamin supplements!0
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In for later0
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besides the trash eating this one sells popcorn. No idea why you all get so excited about it. Just define what you mean by it and if thats what you wnat to do, then go for it.0
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herrspoons wrote: »Clean eating is usually just an excuse for people to consume as many calories as they did before but in a more 'healthy' way.
Then they scratch their heads and wonder why they continue to pile on the pounds.
It's a meaningless sound bite.
yep.....all people trying to eat "clean" (whatever it means to them) are all just looking for an excuse to keep eating the same amounts...they ALL do this...every single one of them0 -
herrspoons wrote: »Clean eating is usually just an excuse for people to consume as many calories as they did before but in a more 'healthy' way.
Then they scratch their heads and wonder why they continue to pile on the pounds.
It's a meaningless sound bite.
Uh, no. Not everyone who "eats clean" does this.
You know what they say about assumptions...0 -
herrspoons wrote: »Dave198lbs wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »Clean eating is usually just an excuse for people to consume as many calories as they did before but in a more 'healthy' way.
Then they scratch their heads and wonder why they continue to pile on the pounds.
It's a meaningless sound bite.
yep.....all people trying to eat "clean" (whatever it means to them) are all just looking for an excuse to keep eating the same amounts...they ALL do this...every single one of them
Not all of them, but a fair amount.
Now a question for you - will eating clean, which we'll assume for the sake of argument is mainly eating non-processed foods - make the slightest difference to fat loss if the same excessive calorie content is consumed?
Yes or no?
you are assuming too much.....not all people are eating "clean" for fat loss alone...it seems to me that people who discuss eating clean are more concerned with overall health...everything sold and even garden grown involves some "processing" whether it be cultivating or packaging. Most of the people who bash "clean" eating know what people mean by "clean" and by "processing" but since the bashers chose not to follow the "clean" eating style, they make fun of it and intentionally misconstrue it and distort it. If you don't like it, fine. But over generalizing about those who are trying it is lame. I think the value of "organically grown" is overstated and some "clean eating" principles are over reaching, but why distort the numbers? You have no data that a "fair amount" are looking for an excuse to continue eating thier same amounts. WHy are they on a calorie counting website if "a fair amount" of them are looking for an excuse?0 -
herrspoons wrote: »Dave198lbs wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »Clean eating is usually just an excuse for people to consume as many calories as they did before but in a more 'healthy' way.
Then they scratch their heads and wonder why they continue to pile on the pounds.
It's a meaningless sound bite.
yep.....all people trying to eat "clean" (whatever it means to them) are all just looking for an excuse to keep eating the same amounts...they ALL do this...every single one of them
Not all of them, but a fair amount.
Now a question for you - will eating clean, which we'll assume for the sake of argument is mainly eating non-processed foods - make the slightest difference to fat loss if the same excessive calorie content is consumed?
Yes or no?
Nope. But that's not why all people eat clean. Most eat clean for their HEALTH.
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herrspoons wrote: »Dave198lbs wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »Clean eating is usually just an excuse for people to consume as many calories as they did before but in a more 'healthy' way.
Then they scratch their heads and wonder why they continue to pile on the pounds.
It's a meaningless sound bite.
yep.....all people trying to eat "clean" (whatever it means to them) are all just looking for an excuse to keep eating the same amounts...they ALL do this...every single one of them
Not all of them, but a fair amount.
Now a question for you - will eating clean, which we'll assume for the sake of argument is mainly eating non-processed foods - make the slightest difference to fat loss if the same excessive calorie content is consumed?
Yes or no?
If they are not eating at a deficit they will not lose weight. You are correct.
For me, aside from weight loss, the point of eating "clean" is to eliminate preservatives, feed my body more nutrients in a form that the body processes more efficiently, and to eliminate as many empty calories as possible. By striving for clean I am paying more attention to labels past the calorie/fat counts.
By eating more clean I am eating more healthy.
I also get my health and nutrition information and guidance from my Physician and Health and Wellness CNP, not the internet.0 -
herrspoons wrote: »Dave198lbs wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »Dave198lbs wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »Clean eating is usually just an excuse for people to consume as many calories as they did before but in a more 'healthy' way.
Then they scratch their heads and wonder why they continue to pile on the pounds.
It's a meaningless sound bite.
yep.....all people trying to eat "clean" (whatever it means to them) are all just looking for an excuse to keep eating the same amounts...they ALL do this...every single one of them
Not all of them, but a fair amount.
Now a question for you - will eating clean, which we'll assume for the sake of argument is mainly eating non-processed foods - make the slightest difference to fat loss if the same excessive calorie content is consumed?
Yes or no?
you are assuming too much.....not all people are eating "clean" for fat loss alone...it seems to me that people who discuss eating clean are more concerned with overall health...everything sold and even garden grown involves some "processing" whether it be cultivating or packaging. Most of the people who bash "clean" eating know what people mean by "clean" and by "processing" but since the bashers chose not to follow the "clean" eating style, they make fun of it and intentionally misconstrue it and distort it. If you don't like it, fine. But over generalizing about those who are trying it is lame. I think the value of "organically grown" is overstated and some "clean eating" principles are over reaching, but why distort the numbers? You have no data that a "fair amount" are looking for an excuse to continue eating thier same amounts. WHy are they on a calorie counting website if "a fair amount" of them are looking for an excuse?
So that's a no then?
of course it's a no and no one claims otherwise. clean eating does not magically make calorie counts meaningless. So...you admit then that you were just over generalizing about why people try to eat clean?0 -
clean eating is just a way for people to "feel better' that they are eating the "right" foods…it really is a bunch of BS….IMHO
but in…for another clean eating thread...0 -
herrspoons wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »Dave198lbs wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »Clean eating is usually just an excuse for people to consume as many calories as they did before but in a more 'healthy' way.
Then they scratch their heads and wonder why they continue to pile on the pounds.
It's a meaningless sound bite.
yep.....all people trying to eat "clean" (whatever it means to them) are all just looking for an excuse to keep eating the same amounts...they ALL do this...every single one of them
Not all of them, but a fair amount.
Now a question for you - will eating clean, which we'll assume for the sake of argument is mainly eating non-processed foods - make the slightest difference to fat loss if the same excessive calorie content is consumed?
Yes or no?
Nope. But that's not why all people eat clean. Most eat clean for their HEALTH.
Please explain two things:
1) What eating clean is? Specifically.
2) Why whatever definition you use will improve health?
Because the reality is that eating sensibly and in moderation will do the same.
It's a pretty simple concept. People like you, who think there's one way and one way only to eat, like to make it more complicated then it really is. "Raw" foods aka unprocessed or minimally processed, refined, and handled- closest to their natural form.0 -
herrspoons wrote: »Dave198lbs wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »Clean eating is usually just an excuse for people to consume as many calories as they did before but in a more 'healthy' way.
Then they scratch their heads and wonder why they continue to pile on the pounds.
It's a meaningless sound bite.
yep.....all people trying to eat "clean" (whatever it means to them) are all just looking for an excuse to keep eating the same amounts...they ALL do this...every single one of them
Not all of them, but a fair amount.
Now a question for you - will eating clean, which we'll assume for the sake of argument is mainly eating non-processed foods - make the slightest difference to fat loss if the same excessive calorie content is consumed?
Yes or no?
If they are not eating at a deficit they will not lose weight. You are correct.
For me, aside from weight loss, the point of eating "clean" is to eliminate preservatives, feed my body more nutrients in a form that the body processes more efficiently, and to eliminate as many empty calories as possible. By striving for clean I am paying more attention to labels past the calorie/fat counts.
By eating more clean I am eating more healthy.
I also get my health and nutrition information and guidance from my Physician and Health and Wellness CNP, not the internet.
I do not eat clean and my health markers are fine….
why is it assumed that clean = healthier..????0 -
FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »Dave198lbs wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »Clean eating is usually just an excuse for people to consume as many calories as they did before but in a more 'healthy' way.
Then they scratch their heads and wonder why they continue to pile on the pounds.
It's a meaningless sound bite.
yep.....all people trying to eat "clean" (whatever it means to them) are all just looking for an excuse to keep eating the same amounts...they ALL do this...every single one of them
Not all of them, but a fair amount.
Now a question for you - will eating clean, which we'll assume for the sake of argument is mainly eating non-processed foods - make the slightest difference to fat loss if the same excessive calorie content is consumed?
Yes or no?
Nope. But that's not why all people eat clean. Most eat clean for their HEALTH.
so non clean eaters are unhealthy?0 -
EatsNotTreats wrote: »Coming from a "clean eater", that term should be dropped all-together - since it seems to have 100 different definitions and often results in offending people. What's the point? Life shouldn't be about making others feel bad. Just do what you do and encourage people when you can.
Applause.
I think a focus on eating healthy is a great thing and can be extremely helpful in weight loss also (although is not necessary). It's something that's important to me and I probably could not sustain an extended weight loss plan without such a focus. But I HATE the term "clean eating," which seems to me to have nothing to do with nutrition at all (it's a hygiene or religious term), to be divisive, and to take the focus off a reasonable discussion of what contributes to good health (on which people can have a variety of ideas and find that different things work best for them).
Plus, it seems to have no consistent meaning at all.
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FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »Dave198lbs wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »Clean eating is usually just an excuse for people to consume as many calories as they did before but in a more 'healthy' way.
Then they scratch their heads and wonder why they continue to pile on the pounds.
It's a meaningless sound bite.
yep.....all people trying to eat "clean" (whatever it means to them) are all just looking for an excuse to keep eating the same amounts...they ALL do this...every single one of them
Not all of them, but a fair amount.
Now a question for you - will eating clean, which we'll assume for the sake of argument is mainly eating non-processed foods - make the slightest difference to fat loss if the same excessive calorie content is consumed?
Yes or no?
Nope. But that's not why all people eat clean. Most eat clean for their HEALTH.
Please explain two things:
1) What eating clean is? Specifically.
2) Why whatever definition you use will improve health?
Because the reality is that eating sensibly and in moderation will do the same.
It's a pretty simple concept. People like you, who think there's one way and one way only to eat, like to make it more complicated then it really is. "Raw" foods aka unprocessed or minimally processed, refined, and handled- closest to their natural form.
define "minimally processed" ..if I kill a deer, skin it, gut it, and then cut it out into steaks, burgers, sausage, etc; is that minimally processed, or maximal processed?????0 -
There is no one "diet" or eating plan that works for everyone. If you have something that works for you, great! Keep at it.
I have stated my thoughts on the subject. I have the support of my Physician and CNP.
Have a great day
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FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »Dave198lbs wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »Clean eating is usually just an excuse for people to consume as many calories as they did before but in a more 'healthy' way.
Then they scratch their heads and wonder why they continue to pile on the pounds.
It's a meaningless sound bite.
yep.....all people trying to eat "clean" (whatever it means to them) are all just looking for an excuse to keep eating the same amounts...they ALL do this...every single one of them
Not all of them, but a fair amount.
Now a question for you - will eating clean, which we'll assume for the sake of argument is mainly eating non-processed foods - make the slightest difference to fat loss if the same excessive calorie content is consumed?
Yes or no?
Nope. But that's not why all people eat clean. Most eat clean for their HEALTH.
Please explain two things:
1) What eating clean is? Specifically.
2) Why whatever definition you use will improve health?
Because the reality is that eating sensibly and in moderation will do the same.
It's a pretty simple concept. People like you, who think there's one way and one way only to eat, like to make it more complicated then it really is. "Raw" foods aka unprocessed or minimally processed, refined, and handled- closest to their natural form.
define "minimally processed" ..if I kill a deer, skin it, gut it, and then cut it out into steaks, burgers, sausage, etc; is that minimally processed, or maximal processed?????
you want to nit pik? how do you cut a deer into sausage? is there a sausage section on the deer you kill? what do you mean by "maximal" processed? why invent arguments?0 -
Dave198lbs wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »Dave198lbs wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »Clean eating is usually just an excuse for people to consume as many calories as they did before but in a more 'healthy' way.
Then they scratch their heads and wonder why they continue to pile on the pounds.
It's a meaningless sound bite.
yep.....all people trying to eat "clean" (whatever it means to them) are all just looking for an excuse to keep eating the same amounts...they ALL do this...every single one of them
Not all of them, but a fair amount.
Now a question for you - will eating clean, which we'll assume for the sake of argument is mainly eating non-processed foods - make the slightest difference to fat loss if the same excessive calorie content is consumed?
Yes or no?
Nope. But that's not why all people eat clean. Most eat clean for their HEALTH.
Please explain two things:
1) What eating clean is? Specifically.
2) Why whatever definition you use will improve health?
Because the reality is that eating sensibly and in moderation will do the same.
It's a pretty simple concept. People like you, who think there's one way and one way only to eat, like to make it more complicated then it really is. "Raw" foods aka unprocessed or minimally processed, refined, and handled- closest to their natural form.
define "minimally processed" ..if I kill a deer, skin it, gut it, and then cut it out into steaks, burgers, sausage, etc; is that minimally processed, or maximal processed?????
you want to nit pik? how do you cut a deer into sausage? is there a sausage section on the deer you kill? what do you mean by "maximal" processed? why invent arguments?
Do you seriously not know how one would make venison sausage?0 -
Dave198lbs wrote: »Most of the people who bash "clean" eating know what people mean by "clean" and by "processing" but since the bashers chose not to follow the "clean" eating style, they make fun of it and intentionally misconstrue it and distort it.
Wrong. I point out that they don't typically eat less "processed" foods than most people here who care about health, so I ask why they are trying to claim some special high ground and what's wrong with the processed foods that I eat.
I'd be embarrassed to claim to eat clean, because there are processed foods I would never cut out and think add to my health (and others that I simply like, which are no more "processed" than my yogurt, for the most part). For example, I don't think that coffee or whole wheat flour is a terrible thing to eat. It's possible that the average person who claims to eat clean is more consistent than I think, in which case I'd love to know what's wrong with drinking coffee in moderation or eating yogurt. Or, as I suspect, said person is being a hypocrite and is no "cleaner" than I am.
And, sure, I'd be interested in a discussion of why I should switch 100% to organic if people really do think that's important. (Same with why I should eat ONLY seasonally, even if that means I'm basically eating meat and potatoes with perhaps some apples all winter.) That would be a more interesting conversation than the vague ones about eating "clean" that start with the premise that only those who use that term care about health.
Edited because it was b*tchier than I really need to be. I'm more interested in conversation than an argument.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Dave198lbs wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »Dave198lbs wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »Clean eating is usually just an excuse for people to consume as many calories as they did before but in a more 'healthy' way.
Then they scratch their heads and wonder why they continue to pile on the pounds.
It's a meaningless sound bite.
yep.....all people trying to eat "clean" (whatever it means to them) are all just looking for an excuse to keep eating the same amounts...they ALL do this...every single one of them
Not all of them, but a fair amount.
Now a question for you - will eating clean, which we'll assume for the sake of argument is mainly eating non-processed foods - make the slightest difference to fat loss if the same excessive calorie content is consumed?
Yes or no?
Nope. But that's not why all people eat clean. Most eat clean for their HEALTH.
Please explain two things:
1) What eating clean is? Specifically.
2) Why whatever definition you use will improve health?
Because the reality is that eating sensibly and in moderation will do the same.
It's a pretty simple concept. People like you, who think there's one way and one way only to eat, like to make it more complicated then it really is. "Raw" foods aka unprocessed or minimally processed, refined, and handled- closest to their natural form.
define "minimally processed" ..if I kill a deer, skin it, gut it, and then cut it out into steaks, burgers, sausage, etc; is that minimally processed, or maximal processed?????
you want to nit pik? how do you cut a deer into sausage? is there a sausage section on the deer you kill? what do you mean by "maximal" processed? why invent arguments?
Do you seriously not know how one would make venison sausage?
for realz…venison sausage is the bomb!!!0 -
Dave198lbs wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »Dave198lbs wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »Clean eating is usually just an excuse for people to consume as many calories as they did before but in a more 'healthy' way.
Then they scratch their heads and wonder why they continue to pile on the pounds.
It's a meaningless sound bite.
yep.....all people trying to eat "clean" (whatever it means to them) are all just looking for an excuse to keep eating the same amounts...they ALL do this...every single one of them
Not all of them, but a fair amount.
Now a question for you - will eating clean, which we'll assume for the sake of argument is mainly eating non-processed foods - make the slightest difference to fat loss if the same excessive calorie content is consumed?
Yes or no?
Nope. But that's not why all people eat clean. Most eat clean for their HEALTH.
Please explain two things:
1) What eating clean is? Specifically.
2) Why whatever definition you use will improve health?
Because the reality is that eating sensibly and in moderation will do the same.
It's a pretty simple concept. People like you, who think there's one way and one way only to eat, like to make it more complicated then it really is. "Raw" foods aka unprocessed or minimally processed, refined, and handled- closest to their natural form.
define "minimally processed" ..if I kill a deer, skin it, gut it, and then cut it out into steaks, burgers, sausage, etc; is that minimally processed, or maximal processed?????
you want to nit pik? how do you cut a deer into sausage? is there a sausage section on the deer you kill? what do you mean by "maximal" processed? why invent arguments?
I don't care about clean eating or processed food, so I have no definition for "maximally processed" I will leave that to the clean eating zealots...0 -
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This argument comes up every single week. Aren't you people tired of debating over it yet?0
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Swiftlet66 wrote: »This argument comes up every single week. Aren't you people tired of debating over it yet?
if that is the standard for not arguing anymore, then we might as shut down MFP threads as the same arguments come up constantly …sugar, clean eating, detoxes, etc….0 -
FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »Clean eating is usually just an excuse for people to consume as many calories as they did before but in a more 'healthy' way.
Then they scratch their heads and wonder why they continue to pile on the pounds.
It's a meaningless sound bite.
Uh, no. Not everyone who "eats clean" does this.
The poster said "usually".
That means "not everyone".
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Dave198lbs wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »Dave198lbs wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »Clean eating is usually just an excuse for people to consume as many calories as they did before but in a more 'healthy' way.
Then they scratch their heads and wonder why they continue to pile on the pounds.
It's a meaningless sound bite.
yep.....all people trying to eat "clean" (whatever it means to them) are all just looking for an excuse to keep eating the same amounts...they ALL do this...every single one of them
Not all of them, but a fair amount.
Now a question for you - will eating clean, which we'll assume for the sake of argument is mainly eating non-processed foods - make the slightest difference to fat loss if the same excessive calorie content is consumed?
Yes or no?
Nope. But that's not why all people eat clean. Most eat clean for their HEALTH.
Please explain two things:
1) What eating clean is? Specifically.
2) Why whatever definition you use will improve health?
Because the reality is that eating sensibly and in moderation will do the same.
It's a pretty simple concept. People like you, who think there's one way and one way only to eat, like to make it more complicated then it really is. "Raw" foods aka unprocessed or minimally processed, refined, and handled- closest to their natural form.
define "minimally processed" ..if I kill a deer, skin it, gut it, and then cut it out into steaks, burgers, sausage, etc; is that minimally processed, or maximal processed?????
you want to nit pik? how do you cut a deer into sausage? is there a sausage section on the deer you kill? what do you mean by "maximal" processed? why invent arguments?
It's not nit-picking, it's a valid question.
One that remains unanswered....
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EatsNotTreats wrote: »I guess this must always get heated.
Maybe let's just agree that we all have different ideas about why people lose weight based on our own collection of personal readings and experience that we have done. There are certainly a few ways to get towards the left of the scale. Not just one.
With respect to overall health (which is not always in parallel with weight loss), we all have our own ideas about what contributes to that as well, again, based on which readings and experience have resounded with us. If we are all young enough, we won't know who is right until about 40 years from now.
I just think if a way of life makes you truly happy and invigorated and gives you a sense of purpose in life, then that happiness alone is probably doing your body a hell of a lot of favors!!!!
And ironically at the end of the day, you can achieve all the weight loss and health you ever dreamed of then get hit by a bus shortly after. So no point in arguing, just get out there and do what makes you happy!
actually there is only one way ..eat in a calorie deficit, period.0 -
herrspoons wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »Dave198lbs wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »Clean eating is usually just an excuse for people to consume as many calories as they did before but in a more 'healthy' way.
Then they scratch their heads and wonder why they continue to pile on the pounds.
It's a meaningless sound bite.
yep.....all people trying to eat "clean" (whatever it means to them) are all just looking for an excuse to keep eating the same amounts...they ALL do this...every single one of them
Not all of them, but a fair amount.
Now a question for you - will eating clean, which we'll assume for the sake of argument is mainly eating non-processed foods - make the slightest difference to fat loss if the same excessive calorie content is consumed?
Yes or no?
If they are not eating at a deficit they will not lose weight. You are correct.
For me, aside from weight loss, the point of eating "clean" is to eliminate preservatives, feed my body more nutrients in a form that the body processes more efficiently, and to eliminate as many empty calories as possible. By striving for clean I am paying more attention to labels past the calorie/fat counts.
By eating more clean I am eating more healthy.
I also get my health and nutrition information and guidance from my Physician and Health and Wellness CNP, not the internet.
Again, define clean.
Washing your hands before you eat your cookies!0
This discussion has been closed.
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