Squat Pains a Plenty - Low Bar

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  • Leadfoot_Lewis
    Leadfoot_Lewis Posts: 1,623 Member
    edited November 2014
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    JoRocka wrote: »

    I think elbows in- is not in close to the body- although I was taught to be narrower rather than wider on the grip and therefor the elbows- but rather than flaring the elbows BACK- they tuck forward and almost help press the chest up.

    I kind of my elbows having a bar or plate in them that runs through my rib cage and as I drive up through the floor- the more I keep my elbows pinned forward- the more I can help push my chest up.

    Different cues for different people.

    It's not the elbows that are so much the problem as the bent-back wrist position - do you really think you should be supporting your BW or more with just your wrists? I stand by it being a crappy cue. I'd rather have a client practice something like Supermans on the floor to get the mind-muscle connection of what back extension (which puts the chest up) feels like. Teach them to stay tight in the core (back extension) which will again, automatically keep the chest up. If they can't stay tight then work on strength & mobility (as I stated in my other post)

    Also...your grip width should be whatever width will allow you to have straight wrists. Someone with poor wrist flexibility will have a very wide grip on the bar, but that's irrelevant to this anyway..

  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
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    No I don't think the wrists should be support the weight- but I do think the elbows shouldn't be all flared out to the back- typically that's a sign of a caved chest that the core isn't supporting. I can't say I've seen anyone with a solid squat with elbows flared out behind them.
  • dbmata
    dbmata Posts: 12,950 Member
    edited November 2014
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    Leadfoot_Lewis wrote: »

    It's not the elbows that are so much the problem as the bent-back wrist position - do you really think you should be supporting your BW or more with just your wrists?
    If you're doing that, it's probably a very stupid thing to do. You have your traps and lats to hold that *kitten*, use it. Your hands are there to keep the bar stable.

    I didn't think it had to be said, but apparently it does.

    It's called a back squat because the bar goes on your back, resting on the back of your shoulders, and as an extension your skeletal system. If you're trying to hold the bar up with your arms, knock it off, you're in for a bad time. Same with a front squat. It's called a front squat because the bar sits trapped on your delts and your hands keep it trapped and stable. IF you're trying to hold the bar up with your arms, knock it off, you're in for a bad tie.

    Also, if you're flaring your elbows back, you're in for a bad time. You push those elbows forward to get your chest up.
  • Leadfoot_Lewis
    Leadfoot_Lewis Posts: 1,623 Member
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    JoRocka wrote: »
    No I don't think the wrists should be support the weight- but I do think the elbows shouldn't be all flared out to the back- typically that's a sign of a caved chest that the core isn't supporting. I can't say I've seen anyone with a solid squat with elbows flared out behind them.

    Really?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PV-8wyACXv8

    I can post many more examples if you'd like. This is one of the gentlemen that taught me how to squat. It is VERY common with a Low Bar Back Squat to have your elbows up. The elbow in which everyone keeps going on about is more common in a High Bar Squat,where you do lead out of the hole with the chest more so than a Low Squat, where hip drive gets you out. Unless I read the title wrong, high bar is not how the OP is lifting.



  • dbmata
    dbmata Posts: 12,950 Member
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    Watch the video, that doesn't look low bar.
  • auddii
    auddii Posts: 15,357 Member
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    dbmata wrote: »
    Watch the video, that doesn't look low bar.
    To me, it doesn't look like a particularly high bar squat either, but it's hard to tell the bar position because the plates are in the way.

    I do see some form issues in several of the squat videos in this thread, and I feel like I do a lot of them. If nothing else, this conversation has really made me think about how I can improve my own squats...
  • dbmata
    dbmata Posts: 12,950 Member
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    Body position is different on a low bar, from what I've read, I lack the mo to do one.

    Looks to me as a hb back squat, but a different angle would be needed to determine that.
  • arditarose
    arditarose Posts: 15,573 Member
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    I have to come back and read all this again. I'm terrified of low bar. It feels absolutely horrible to me.
  • LolBroScience
    LolBroScience Posts: 4,537 Member
    edited November 2014
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    Leadfoot_Lewis wrote: »
    JoRocka wrote: »
    No I don't think the wrists should be support the weight- but I do think the elbows shouldn't be all flared out to the back- typically that's a sign of a caved chest that the core isn't supporting. I can't say I've seen anyone with a solid squat with elbows flared out behind them.

    Really?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PV-8wyACXv8

    I can post many more examples if you'd like. This is one of the gentlemen that taught me how to squat. It is VERY common with a Low Bar Back Squat to have your elbows up. The elbow in which everyone keeps going on about is more common in a High Bar Squat,where you do lead out of the hole with the chest more so than a Low Squat, where hip drive gets you out. Unless I read the title wrong, high bar is not how the OP is lifting.



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sd8Tzt5VS1w

    There are other top level lifters who squat this same way. There is no right or wrong way per say, but you should be supporting the weight on your traps and rear delts.
  • dbmata
    dbmata Posts: 12,950 Member
    edited November 2014
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    LolBroScience wrote: »
    Leadfoot_Lewis wrote: »
    JoRocka wrote: »
    No I don't think the wrists should be support the weight- but I do think the elbows shouldn't be all flared out to the back- typically that's a sign of a caved chest that the core isn't supporting. I can't say I've seen anyone with a solid squat with elbows flared out behind them.

    Really?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PV-8wyACXv8

    I can post many more examples if you'd like. This is one of the gentlemen that taught me how to squat. It is VERY common with a Low Bar Back Squat to have your elbows up. The elbow in which everyone keeps going on about is more common in a High Bar Squat,where you do lead out of the hole with the chest more so than a Low Squat, where hip drive gets you out. Unless I read the title wrong, high bar is not how the OP is lifting.



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sd8Tzt5VS1w
    Bro, do you even forum?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sd8Tzt5VS1w


    ETA - his eyes keep following me.
  • LolBroScience
    LolBroScience Posts: 4,537 Member
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    ^ Touche.
  • dbmata
    dbmata Posts: 12,950 Member
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    Just quote my post to see how to get them to embed.
  • JeffseekingV
    JeffseekingV Posts: 3,165 Member
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    Low bar squat with elbows tucked
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RMFHgVN_pcg
  • LolBroScience
    LolBroScience Posts: 4,537 Member
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    dbmata wrote: »
    Just quote my post to see how to get them to embed.

    Funny that before the forum update I used to try and link that way with youtube in place of the img tag.
  • dbmata
    dbmata Posts: 12,950 Member
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    For a bit you could just post the youtube link and the phpBB forum software would just put the youtube clip embedded inline, then they turned it off, and now we have to do the silly youtube tag.
  • smittybuilt19
    smittybuilt19 Posts: 955 Member
    edited November 2014
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    Folks I greatly appreciate the advice. This is the point where I become confused, doubt my abilities, and focus on wayyy too many cues. In the past I've hit a point like this, scrapped my form all together, started over. I am now back to the amount I was squatting 3 months ago, and don't want to revert. (I do realize I may need to slow the progression and maybe back off 10% to work on form)

    I will summarize what I feel like has been said here to most likely help me fix the problem.
    1) Core strength needs work
    2) Chest up, wrists straight, elbows as far forward as possible
    3) Possibly narrow stance a bit to alleviate the original issue: femoral head pain.

    Thanks for all the input y'all! I will hopefully post a front shot tomorrow.
  • smittybuilt19
    smittybuilt19 Posts: 955 Member
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    dbmata wrote: »
    For a bit you could just post the youtube link and the phpBB forum software would just put the youtube clip embedded inline, then they turned it off, and now we have to do the silly youtube tag.

    That was a nice feature. I thought I was doing something wrong.

  • BenjaminMFP88
    BenjaminMFP88 Posts: 660 Member
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    smittybuilt19 wrote: »
    Thank you. I appear to be slightly wider than shoulder width when un-loaded and purposely looking at stance width, however, when loaded and lifting I think I may be going wider than that and it is really starting to hurt as the weight increases.

    Just curious, but when squatting, how are your knees? The should follow in line with your toes, if that makes any sense. I used to like wide stance but found that my knees drooped inwards causing a significant amount of pressure on them. When I switched to a shoulder width stance, it felt more natural for my knees to follow my toes.
  • smittybuilt19
    smittybuilt19 Posts: 955 Member
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    BenjaminMFP88 wrote: »
    smittybuilt19 wrote: »
    Thank you. I appear to be slightly wider than shoulder width when un-loaded and purposely looking at stance width, however, when loaded and lifting I think I may be going wider than that and it is really starting to hurt as the weight increases.

    Just curious, but when squatting, how are your knees? The should follow in line with your toes, if that makes any sense. I used to like wide stance but found that my knees drooped inwards causing a significant amount of pressure on them. When I switched to a shoulder width stance, it felt more natural for my knees to follow my toes.

    *I* feel like my knees do ok during the lift but I need to get some footage to verify. Also, just a side note, my issues aren't knee pain, but hip area pain, think femoral head.

    I have in the past definitely had issues with caving from being too wide in the stance and it caused knee pain for sure.
  • smittybuilt19
    smittybuilt19 Posts: 955 Member
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    LolBroScience wrote: »
    Leadfoot_Lewis wrote: »
    JoRocka wrote: »
    No I don't think the wrists should be support the weight- but I do think the elbows shouldn't be all flared out to the back- typically that's a sign of a caved chest that the core isn't supporting. I can't say I've seen anyone with a solid squat with elbows flared out behind them.

    Really?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PV-8wyACXv8

    I can post many more examples if you'd like. This is one of the gentlemen that taught me how to squat. It is VERY common with a Low Bar Back Squat to have your elbows up. The elbow in which everyone keeps going on about is more common in a High Bar Squat,where you do lead out of the hole with the chest more so than a Low Squat, where hip drive gets you out. Unless I read the title wrong, high bar is not how the OP is lifting.



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sd8Tzt5VS1w

    There are other top level lifters who squat this same way. There is no right or wrong way per say, but you should be supporting the weight on your traps and rear delts.

    Lord have mercy that's a whole bunch of man right there...




    ...oh, all hetero.

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