How Do You Trust the Process?

PwrLftr82

I bulked last year and did a lot of things wrong (didn't stop excessive cardio, ate at the most minimal of surpluses, and ate far too much protein and not nearly enough carbs). I gained a total of 6 lbs in 20 weeks (4 lbs of LBM). I'm back with bulk #2 and hoping to learn from my mistakes.

About Me:
32-year-old female
5'6", 130 lbs (started my bulk 5 weeks ago at 124 but started creatine and a new BC pill in that time as well)
Body fat is +/- 17%
Lift 4x/week doing Wendler's 5/3/1 with an upper/lower split for accessories
TDEE per Fitbit is 2300-2400 cals
Intake is 2700 cals (371g carbs, 75g fats, 135g protein)

My plan is to bulk to 140-145 lbs

I guess my question is, how do you trust the process? Right now I just feel a little pudgy. How can I convince myself that I'm actually gaining muscle and not just muffintopping over my pants?

ForecasterJason

Are you trying to bulk with putting on minimal fat or do you plan to actually do a cut at some later time?

PwrLftr82

ForecasterJason wrote: »

Are you trying to bulk with putting on minimal fat or do you plan to actually do a cut at some later time?

I didn't cut last time (because I didn't really put on much fat), just did recomp for eight months. I'm not opposed to the idea of cutting--I actually lose easily--but I don't like the idea of eating less food on a cut LOL. I guess I'd planned on doing a more aggressive bulk and a slower cut after.

LolBroScience

Just need to keep reassuring yourself that it is necessary for the overall greater goal. I would just approach the process slow, looking to add 1-2 lbs per month (personally I would aim for the former). That way, you'll keep fat gains at bay.

PwrLftr82

So, to reach my goal of 140 lbs, you recommend 10 more months of bulking? I felt like I shortchange myself last time when I gained that slowly...but I think, in reality, maybe my expectations for the outcome may be too great.

LolBroScience

Short change in what way?

I don't think there is a right or wrong answer as it boils down to your comfort level. Do you care about fat gains and seeing the scale shoot up more rapidly? If not, be more aggressive with your surplus. If so, approach it more slowly.

Keep in mind it's more difficult for women to add LBM, so be realistic about the amount of LBM you're looking to add and the time frame of doing so. It will become even more difficult to add LBM as your training age increases as well.

PwrLftr82

Are you calling me old?

You're probably right. Last bulk was 20 weeks and I gained 4 lbs of LBM. I know logically that's really good...but I've got that stupid voice in my head telling me I could have gained more if I'd eaten more. Do you think I maxed out my LBM gains in that bulk, or is it at all possible I could have gained more?

LolBroScience

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/whats-my-genetic-muscular-potential.html/

1/2 the values for women generally speaking. Obviously everyone is different, and has different potentials based on genetics and such.. but it will give you a general idea.

PwrLftr82

LolBroScience wrote: »

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/whats-my-genetic-muscular-potential.html/

1/2 the values for women generally speaking. Obviously everyone is different, and has different potentials based on genetics and such.. but it will give you a general idea.

But I'm a special snowflake!!!

Of course I know all of this...it's just hard when you're so inside your own hear. Do you know what I mean?

LolBroScience

PwrLftr82 wrote: »

LolBroScience wrote: »

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/whats-my-genetic-muscular-potential.html/

1/2 the values for women generally speaking. Obviously everyone is different, and has different potentials based on genetics and such.. but it will give you a general idea.

But I'm a special snowflake!!!

Of course I know all of this...it's just hard when you're so inside your own hear. Do you know what I mean?

Absolutely, but it is the reality of the situation unless you wanna buy a bicycle.

PwrLftr82

Okay, I'm going to shoot for 135 (5 lbs) for end of February then and see how it goes. If I'm feeling fat, I'll cut. If I'm feeling fine, I'll keep going.

LolBroScience

That sounds good. I would also encourage you to perhaps discuss this with USMCMP or other females that have run some bulk/cut cycles as they may have different input and feedback.

PwrLftr82

LolBroScience wrote: »

That sounds good. I would also encourage you to perhaps discuss this with USMCMP or other females that have run some bulk/cut cycles as they may have different input and feedback.

I've talked to her.

I feel like I'm coming from a different place than a lot of women here. I was never big, so I didn't start off with a lot of LBM. I'm really building it up from scratch. I started out at 98 lbs LBM and am now up to 105 lbs after two years of seriously lifting. Some I gained through my bulk last time and the rest through recomp.

I've found that a lot of the women I really look up to here started off at a higher weight and just had to shed some fat to reveal the awesomeness beneath. I feel slightly at a disadvantage in that way, or maybe that's just a cop-out. IDK

LolBroScience

I don't think it is a cop out per say, but I also don't think it's all the relevant where you start from.

You can't control the past, so control what you can control moving forward.

JeffseekingV

PwrLftr82 wrote: »

LolBroScience wrote: »

That sounds good. I would also encourage you to perhaps discuss this with USMCMP or other females that have run some bulk/cut cycles as they may have different input and feedback.

I've talked to her.

I feel like I'm coming from a different place than a lot of women here. I was never big, so I didn't start off with a lot of LBM. I'm really building it up from scratch. I started out at 98 lbs LBM and am now up to 105 lbs after two years of seriously lifting. Some I gained through my bulk last time and the rest through recomp.

I've found that a lot of the women I really look up to here started off at a higher weight and just had to shed some fat to reveal the awesomeness beneath. I feel slightly at a disadvantage in that way, or maybe that's just a cop-out. IDK

That is an interesting point. Does that make a difference?

ForecasterJason

I've wondered about that aspect of bulking as well. I think in a way, bulking could be harder for those of us that never had a much higher weight to start with.
I mean, take for instance a guy my height (5'8") who is overweight at 190 pounds (at 30% body fat, that would give him 133 pounds of LBM). He could then get into weight training and get down to around 160 pounds with 14% body fat (141 pounds of LBM). But for someone like me, since my weight is much lower (total weight and LBM), it would seem to me like it could take more effort for me to get up to 160 (with 141 pounds of lbm).

LolBroScience

DERP... nvm... I misread what was said. ^^^

PwrLftr82

JeffseekingV wrote: »

PwrLftr82 wrote: »

LolBroScience wrote: »

That sounds good. I would also encourage you to perhaps discuss this with USMCMP or other females that have run some bulk/cut cycles as they may have different input and feedback.

I've talked to her.

I feel like I'm coming from a different place than a lot of women here. I was never big, so I didn't start off with a lot of LBM. I'm really building it up from scratch. I started out at 98 lbs LBM and am now up to 105 lbs after two years of seriously lifting. Some I gained through my bulk last time and the rest through recomp.

I've found that a lot of the women I really look up to here started off at a higher weight and just had to shed some fat to reveal the awesomeness beneath. I feel slightly at a disadvantage in that way, or maybe that's just a cop-out. IDK

That is an interesting point. Does that make a difference?

I have absolutely no idea. I'm of the mindset of @ForecasterJason that if I was heavier to start and had a higher LBM to start, that shedding the fat would reveal the muscle I already have. I'm great at losing and maintaining weight. I've been "out of shape," but I've never been fat.

JeffseekingV

Yeah I wonder if people that have been lean all their life have a relatively harder time gaining muscle and if people that have been holding more BF all their life have a relatively harder time cutting down to a let's say single digit BF%

mustgetmuscles1

PwrLftr82 wrote: »

JeffseekingV wrote: »

PwrLftr82 wrote: »

LolBroScience wrote: »

That sounds good. I would also encourage you to perhaps discuss this with USMCMP or other females that have run some bulk/cut cycles as they may have different input and feedback.

I've talked to her.

I feel like I'm coming from a different place than a lot of women here. I was never big, so I didn't start off with a lot of LBM. I'm really building it up from scratch. I started out at 98 lbs LBM and am now up to 105 lbs after two years of seriously lifting. Some I gained through my bulk last time and the rest through recomp.

I've found that a lot of the women I really look up to here started off at a higher weight and just had to shed some fat to reveal the awesomeness beneath. I feel slightly at a disadvantage in that way, or maybe that's just a cop-out. IDK

That is an interesting point. Does that make a difference?

I have absolutely no idea. I'm of the mindset of @ForecasterJason that if I was heavier to start and had a higher LBM to start, that shedding the fat would reveal the muscle I already have. I'm great at losing and maintaining weight. I've been "out of shape," but I've never been fat.

Truth is it is difficult for most people. Its just that grass always looks greener on the other side. The term for those of us that were overweight and cut down is Former Fat Boy Syndrome. Believe me it has its own challenges on top of not making significant gains.

We also hear and see tons of stuff about how so-and-so added 20lbs in the first year and wonder what are we doing wrong that we are only seeing a fraction of that.

Was it my calories were too low? My protein too low? Was I on the wrong program? Do my genetics just suck that bad? And if you are a guy you start to wonder about your test levels.

The truth is that putting on any muscle is really hard and very slow for most people. At least that is what I tell myself.

PwrLftr82

JeffseekingV wrote: »

Yeah I wonder if people that have been lean all their life have a relatively harder time gaining muscle and if people that have been holding more BF all their life have a relatively harder time cutting down to a let's say single digit BF%

$5 says there's probably a study about that already

PwrLftr82

mustgetmuscles1 wrote: »

PwrLftr82 wrote: »

JeffseekingV wrote: »

PwrLftr82 wrote: »

LolBroScience wrote: »

That sounds good. I would also encourage you to perhaps discuss this with USMCMP or other females that have run some bulk/cut cycles as they may have different input and feedback.

I've talked to her.

I feel like I'm coming from a different place than a lot of women here. I was never big, so I didn't start off with a lot of LBM. I'm really building it up from scratch. I started out at 98 lbs LBM and am now up to 105 lbs after two years of seriously lifting. Some I gained through my bulk last time and the rest through recomp.

I've found that a lot of the women I really look up to here started off at a higher weight and just had to shed some fat to reveal the awesomeness beneath. I feel slightly at a disadvantage in that way, or maybe that's just a cop-out. IDK

That is an interesting point. Does that make a difference?

I have absolutely no idea. I'm of the mindset of @ForecasterJason that if I was heavier to start and had a higher LBM to start, that shedding the fat would reveal the muscle I already have. I'm great at losing and maintaining weight. I've been "out of shape," but I've never been fat.

Truth is it is difficult for most people. Its just that grass always looks greener on the other side. The term for those of us that were overweight and cut down is Former Fat Boy Syndrome. Believe me it has its own challenges on top of not making significant gains.

We also hear and see tons of stuff about how so-and-so added 20lbs in the first year and wonder what are we doing wrong that we are only seeing a fraction of that.

Was it my calories were too low? My protein too low? Was I on the wrong program? Do my genetics just suck that bad? And if you are a guy you start to wonder about your test levels.

The truth is that putting on any muscle is really hard and very slow for most people. At least that is what I tell myself.

Thank you, that's exactly how I feel! I just keep second-guessing everything I'm doing...

burtnyks

I am feeling the same way lately. I've been bulking for almost a year now and have put on 20 lbs. I will say its gotten scary and nerve wracking to see the weight go up. I just have to keep telling myself that it takes a long time to add a lb of muscle, but you can lose 1 lb of fat in a week (or less) which is what is keeping me going. I've had to retire my smallest pants and close to retiring the next size up and have lost any hint of definition in my midsection. :-/ 99 more days to go before I cut! I keep questioning starting my cut early since I hate dieting but am really trying to hold out.

alereck

^Almost a year? You're my idol lol
I'm 30 days in and chickening out after a 3 lb gain. Someone just helped me snap out of it and I'm gonna keep going but I'm shooting for 3 months and I'll be happy if I get there.

PwrLftr82

burtnyks wrote: »

I am feeling the same way lately. I've been bulking for almost a year now and have put on 20 lbs. I will say its gotten scary and nerve wracking to see the weight go up. I just have to keep telling myself that it takes a long time to add a lb of muscle, but you can lose 1 lb of fat in a week (or less) which is what is keeping me going. I've had to retire my smallest pants and close to retiring the next size up and have lost any hint of definition in my midsection. :-/ 99 more days to go before I cut! I keep questioning starting my cut early since I hate dieting but am really trying to hold out.

A year?! Damn. I will most likely bulk until 8 weeks before I go on vacation (not sure when that is yet as I'm not the one planning it, but sometime in late winter/early spring). Probably will start bulking again immediately upon return.

JoRocka

So here's the thing.

You know what you NEED to do. You know you have to eat a surplus. You know the scale has to go up. it's a matter of accepting it and watching it happen.

My big "secret" which has been my saving grace for any dietary changes- setting a minimum and maximum window. and doing that you said you were going to do during that time frame.

It's that determination to do the thing you set to do- and it sucks because you're going have those down days where you doubt yourself- you feel the fat creeping in everywhere- you lose site of muscles- of veins- those little hollows/pockets you enjoyed having touched- touching (my hip bone indent- first to go- and I love it so dearly so that one is hard for me)

it's little things that throw you.

Investing in good stretching pants- or flexible clothing options so you can reach for them the second you're pants don't start to fit- that's another thing that really kicked my *kitten*- watching me grow out of my pants- so having things I could regularly reach for and not stress about what I felt I looked like made a huge difference.

You know what you need to do. you know you have to do the thing. there isn't anything anyone can tell you don't already know- it's just a matter of getting over and out of your own way and doing the thing.

3laine75

Haha I did the opposite - gained too fast first time round. I'm going to try to keep the gains slow and steady this time (like you did on your first).

I'm actually jealous of the girls starting from low bf% - guess the grass is always greener =D
Remember you're starting from optimum bf% so your p ratio should be spot on.

I think all we can really do is trial and error and see what works for us. You know slow and steady works because you've done it before - the only way to really know if an aggressive bulk is going to work for you is to give it a try, especially if you're okay with cutting (I suck at it).

3laine75

JeffseekingV wrote: »

Yeah I wonder if people that have been lean all their life have a relatively harder time gaining muscle and if people that have been holding more BF all their life have a relatively harder time cutting down to a let's say single digit BF%

That's a big yes to the second.

And I wouldn't even consider myself to have ever been 'fat' just never that lean (not planning single digits (female) but sub 20% would be nice).

LolBroScience

JeffseekingV wrote: »

Yeah I wonder if people that have been lean all their life have a relatively harder time gaining muscle and if people that have been holding more BF all their life have a relatively harder time cutting down to a let's say single digit BF%

Depends on the person and their overall adherence.

ForecasterJason

In thinking this over some more, I'm skeptical about how much more muscle you could have gained in the first bulk. 4 lbs of LBM in 20 weeks works out to roughly .8 lbs a month. If you kept that up for a year, you would gain 9-10 pounds of LBM, which is close to the 10-12 lb estimate from Lyle McDonald.

dakotababy

I have been at this 100lb weight loss thing for over two years. The entire thing has been trail and error. Unfortunately, there is no straight answer, with accurate numbers.

I think it more about trusting that if you need to fix a mistake, that you can. Not trusting that mistakes won't happen or be avoided.

I could try something completely different and gain 5lbs. I know now that 5lbs is not the end of the world, and I can easily change things up again to fix it.