Not eating for pleasure
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paperpudding wrote: »I will keep it short! Some people live to eat and others eat to live. Why not just eat to be healthy? MFP is the greatest program on the internet to help any person who truly wants to eat to be healthy.
But why cant it be all of the above? - being healthy doesnt mean not enjoying food.
I dont want to "just eat to be healthy"
I like food.
Snap. I like healthy, nice food. I also have a family to cook for who want nice food too. Chicken is healthy, but I like it cooked in white wine vinegar with some garlic and chilli. It's still chicken, it's still healthy, it just tastes better!
All it takes is some herbs and spices to make a lot of food taste better. It doesn't mean you have to be a greedy pig, shovelling it down your throat to enjoy food!
When I have a treat, I'd rather have a slice of homemade cake than some store bought junk.0 -
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DawnieB1977 wrote: »paperpudding wrote: »I will keep it short! Some people live to eat and others eat to live. Why not just eat to be healthy? MFP is the greatest program on the internet to help any person who truly wants to eat to be healthy.
But why cant it be all of the above? - being healthy doesnt mean not enjoying food.
I dont want to "just eat to be healthy"
I like food.
Snap. I like healthy, nice food. I also have a family to cook for who want nice food too. Chicken is healthy, but I like it cooked in white wine vinegar with some garlic and chilli. It's still chicken, it's still healthy, it just tastes better!
All it takes is some herbs and spices to make a lot of food taste better. It doesn't mean you have to be a greedy pig, shovelling it down your throat to enjoy food!
When I have a treat, I'd rather have a slice of homemade cake than some store bought junk.
That's part of the issue, seems like this is turning into one of those clean vs dirty eating debates. You are assuming we are shoveling food into our mouths all the time. That's just not reality. Junk is subjective. You may think a burger is junk, I might think cauliflower is crap. See how that works.
The point is, people are assuming that if you enjoy food you're eating huge quantities of anything and everything. My point is 'healthy' food can taste good too, and you don't have to eat loads and loads of it to enjoy it.
You could enjoy a burger and love the taste, and just eat one. It doesn't mean you're eating 5 in a go, every day.0 -
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Hmm.. I can definitely understand the issue at hand, as finding a balance between eating for pleasure and eating for nutrition is something I need to work to find.
As things stand, and just speaking for myself, when I eat for pleasure I tend to gain weight, even if it's only gradually. Likewise, whenever I've sought to lose weight (and did so successfully) eating with fuel primarily in mind always tends to be the way I lose weight best.
Moderation is not something I do well, in food, or in life, so I shall follow this thread with interest, if it doesn't turn into a firestorm that is..0 -
Thank you all, I'm grateful for all that insight.
I have the same experience as many of you - food tastes better when I'm eating mindfully. I too used to shovel food, too much at once, or food I didn't really care that much for, or pure junk that just tasted a lot, just because it was there, believing I had a good time, but never really enjoying it. Now I can eat smaller portions, and I like to feel hungry before I eat. My food is made from mostly cheap ingredients, and I seem to unconciously have emulated a more traditional way of eating - some meals sturdy and nordic, others soft and continental. But it's all tasty and fresh. And has a higher fat content than the government recommends. I feel so content after eating now. I love to eat, but I also like to stop eating, feeling satiated and content and confident I will last until the next meal.
I have also noticed that advertising and dieting has become more focused on satiety, you should never be hungry, if so, you're doing it wrong. I don't think that is correct. Snacking for me lead to constant grazing, and I realized I didn't know what it feels like to be hungry or full, I used to panic when I percieved hunger, and I didn't want boring food, I wanted more junk, and I needed it now, I couldn't wait. I call that pathological hunger.
I am not yet completely used to eating like this, so I both think I eat very little, and very much food. But then I guess it's just the right amount (I'm maintaining a healthy weight). Eating what you need is not greedy. I like to indulge, and I let myself do that, but I don't overindulge, at least not that often anymore.0 -
My comment being down on "foodies" was flippant, and I'm sorry if someone felt personally disrespected about their interests. That was not my intention. Of course, you should enjoy everything in life as much as possible. I'm a competent cook myself and make good food and like eating it.
My points:
1. the mechanics of weight loss are simple ("eat less, move more")
2. yet fat people exist, despite the fact that being fat is a bad idea
3. therefore, the problem is psychological
When considering food (and everything), utility must come first. Ignoring calories and macros, whether as a food aficionado or mindless eater, is disastrous.
Carry on!
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DawnieB1977 wrote: »feisty_bucket wrote: »Is food really that interesting? I think foodies are ridiculous. The reason anybody is overweight is because they get so excited about stimulating their taste buds. You see it all over the Thanksgiving threads here: "I ate 8000 calories today, YOLO!!" On a weight-loss forum. WTF.
No, the reason people are overweight is because they eat too much. People seem to enjoy junk like dominoes, McDonald's, crappy American chocolate etc. I'd hardly call that stimulating your taste buds.
There's no reason you can't enjoy tasty food. When food is really good you don't have to have huge portions of it.
There are plenty of chefs who aren't overweight. There's a show here called The Great British Bake-Off. The woman, Mary Berry, on that is slim and she can still make yummy food.
I'd much rather make myself a stir fry with ginger, chilli etc that shove some tasteless crap in the microwave.
Personally I eat when I'm hungry, but I make sure it's foods I enjoy.
I'll beg to differ. A&W Teen Burger and poutine are the two most delicious fast food items and they are extremely stimulating.0 -
Let me just say, I like "crappy American chocolate".
Now as for eating for pleasure, I do a mix of eating for pleasure, and eating for nutrition. When I was obese, I was more interested in food, and ate larger portions, certainly.
But I do enjoy my food a lot, I eat things I like eating... today I am having a bagel with strawberry cream cheese,vegetarian tacos, cheese pizza with a spinach salad, and a glass of wine too.
That all tastes pretty good. And I will enjoy the feeling of fullness after eating as well. But I planned my day to fit my macros as well.0 -
In all honesty, when people DON'T eat for pleasure, they aren't truly living. Food is fuel, yes. But food is also something to be celebrated and enjoyed. I LOVE eating healthy foods and I enjoy them as well. I genuinely love to cook with new ingredients and explore the culinary world. It's an art. Food is NOT the enemy. So often people (myself included) make food out to be a bad thing (I have struggled with an ED). It really isn't... Enjoy food and enjoy life!0
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I meant to add, I am skinny now, and I still enjoy eating.0
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I don't eat for pleasure. That is not to say I don't enjoy eating once in a while. I eat when my blood sugar drops, or I get hungry. Then again, I grew up poor and now I live self sufficiently so food is not a luxury and never has been here. In my house, you eat what you need, no more. There are times the garden does poorly or the meat-raised animals don't grow as fast as you'd like so you have to stretch what you have until everything is straightened back out. Eating is just a necessity, not a hobby or a pastime. It's not supposed to be fun or exciting-it's supposed to keep you from dying.kommodevaran wrote: »Why? And how does it work out?
I see quite often people in here stating that they now eat only to fuel their bodies, not for pleasure. Are those the same people who used to be overweight? And eat for pleasure then? How can you just switch? Isn't that a recipe for disaster...? Making it sooo easy to slip back to old habits? I am eating both for health and for pleasure now, trying to be sensible and kind to myself at the same time. I cook most of my meals from scratch, and they all taste delicious. I never eat anything I don't like, but I don't eat everything I like at once either.
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I think many people equate eating with pleasure as meaning overeating or over indulging. If a person is truly eating for pleasure then they will be mindful of each bite or sip and savor the flavors. If you scarf down something like a piece of cheesecake in a few minutes that isn't eating for pleasure from my perspective that's gorging and unhealthy. Scarfing down fast food in your car isn't eating for pleasure in my opinion.
When you follow the eating for fuel path from my own experience the bland, tastelessness results in eating significantly slower simply because you are forcing yourself to eat.
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I'm still really confused why foods that are delicious and make me happy are automatically exclusive to me hitting my macros and calorie count for the day?
I never eat food I don't like- I may not LOVE it as much as something else- I may like steak more- but that's more a matter of finances than macro's/calories.
What's wrong with all you people eating not delicious food!!!!0 -
I'm not a scientist, but most biological functions that are necessary for our existence seem to have some kind of sensory reward attached to them. The act of eating something that isn't super delicious or decadent will satisfy the sensation of physical hunger and that brings relief...we need to eat so the body sends us hunger pangs. So it seems that eating is pleasurable, even if it's not your "favorite food" (so long as it isn't something super nasty, like...a pile of dirt or something...I think that would be kind of tough to get down.)
That said, if the relief of fulfillment/pleasure of eating is heightened by the taste of a cheese burger or a hot fudge sundae or a giant glass of wine or pizza, I believe that everything in moderation is what is sustainable and reasonable for health. Eat some. Just don't eat all. And don't eat some all of the time. And move some.
And, foodie or not, I think everyone agrees that some foods are probably better choices than others. I do feel more satisfied when I've had a healthy meal that also tastes good, but that could be due to a lot of things (guilt when I eat crap, dietary needs, how I've trained myself to think about what I put into my body, etc.)0 -
When in competition and training, food for fuel yes. Otherwise, my husband and I are both foodies and winos.
We go to the farmers market, fine restaurants, trips to Sonoma/Napa etc. We value quality over quantity so when we see places that advertise for all-you-can-eat and big portions, we stay away knowing the quality and taste most likely won't be there. I'm no snob either, as good hole-in-the wall can also churn out some great eats.
We have also been known to have our cheat meal at Burger King (A1 bacon cheesburger meal w/ oreo shake) only b/c we have no In-n-Out around us. As my husband says, "you have to come up for air some times".
I also had three pieces of pie on Thanksgiving, why? Because they were home made and phenomenal. I'm not even sorry.
Eating 'badly and loving it' is the exception not the norm for us.0 -
I don't disagree with you but I'm pretty sure that no one in this thread has said to go eat 5 or do it every day. Who is assuming that? The people saying food can't be for pleasure?
Yes, at least some of those people. There have been at least a few posts in this thread that have equated appreciating food with indiscriminate gluttony.
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DawnieB1977 wrote: »feisty_bucket wrote: »Is food really that interesting? I think foodies are ridiculous. The reason anybody is overweight is because they get so excited about stimulating their taste buds. You see it all over the Thanksgiving threads here: "I ate 8000 calories today, YOLO!!" On a weight-loss forum. WTF.
No, the reason people are overweight is because they eat too much. People seem to enjoy junk like dominoes, McDonald's, crappy American chocolate etc. I'd hardly call that stimulating your taste buds.
There's no reason you can't enjoy tasty food. When food is really good you don't have to have huge portions of it.
There are plenty of chefs who aren't overweight. There's a show here called The Great British Bake-Off. The woman, Mary Berry, on that is slim and she can still make yummy food.
I'd much rather make myself a stir fry with ginger, chilli etc that shove some tasteless crap in the microwave.
Personally I eat when I'm hungry, but I make sure it's foods I enjoy.
I'll beg to differ. A&W Teen Burger and poutine are the two most delicious fast food items and they are extremely stimulating.
I'm English and I've never had either, so I'll take your word for it
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DawnieB1977 wrote: »DawnieB1977 wrote: »feisty_bucket wrote: »Is food really that interesting? I think foodies are ridiculous. The reason anybody is overweight is because they get so excited about stimulating their taste buds. You see it all over the Thanksgiving threads here: "I ate 8000 calories today, YOLO!!" On a weight-loss forum. WTF.
No, the reason people are overweight is because they eat too much. People seem to enjoy junk like dominoes, McDonald's, crappy American chocolate etc. I'd hardly call that stimulating your taste buds.
There's no reason you can't enjoy tasty food. When food is really good you don't have to have huge portions of it.
There are plenty of chefs who aren't overweight. There's a show here called The Great British Bake-Off. The woman, Mary Berry, on that is slim and she can still make yummy food.
I'd much rather make myself a stir fry with ginger, chilli etc that shove some tasteless crap in the microwave.
Personally I eat when I'm hungry, but I make sure it's foods I enjoy.
I'll beg to differ. A&W Teen Burger and poutine are the two most delicious fast food items and they are extremely stimulating.
I'm English and I've never had either, so I'll take your word for it
you haven't lived yet if you haven't been to A and W.0 -
kommodevaran wrote: »Why? And how does it work out?
I see quite often people in here stating that they now eat only to fuel their bodies, not for pleasure. Are those the same people who used to be overweight? And eat for pleasure then? How can you just switch? Isn't that a recipe for disaster...? Making it sooo easy to slip back to old habits?
I'm in a remarkably odd place, so this struck a chord. I eat to fuel my body, not for pleasure. It works out... variably, but it isn't something that I would recommend for anyone.
In January, I was obese. I needed an antibiotic and took two doses which upset my stomach and I've never properly recovered from it. I've "accidentally" lost 50+lb since then (almost all of it before July), with some losses being met with pleasure and others with horror, and am currently ~5lb overweight by BMI and ~15lb below the weight my doctor wants me to maintain.
I'm hungry a few days a month, but it isn't hunger that I can trust, because it is never-ending hunger that turns into nausea and pain plus hunger if I try to sate it. Even then - there's no specific foods that sound good to me. Most days I eat because I'd rather not die, thankyouverymuch.
Some food tastes better than other food, and when I'm eating, I can appreciate that. However, the association of food with pain/nausea/discomfort is so strong that nothing is appealing, even foods that have just tasted good to me. I've mostly forgotten what it it's like to hear a description of food and think it sounds good. Restaurants and grocery stores are a real struggle for me.
If one day, I was restored to my pre-antibiotic state, would I regain? I have no idea - I strongly suspect that I would need as much help with that transition as someone who suffered from eating disorders (which I am at no small risk for).0 -
KGRebelRanch wrote: »
I don't eat for pleasure. That is not to say I don't enjoy eating once in a while. I eat when my blood sugar drops, or I get hungry. Then again, I grew up poor and now I live self sufficiently so food is not a luxury and never has been here. In my house, you eat what you need, no more. There are times the garden does poorly or the meat-raised animals don't grow as fast as you'd like so you have to stretch what you have until everything is straightened back out. Eating is just a necessity, not a hobby or a pastime. It's not supposed to be fun or exciting-it's supposed to keep you from dying.kommodevaran wrote: »Why? And how does it work out?
I see quite often people in here stating that they now eat only to fuel their bodies, not for pleasure. Are those the same people who used to be overweight? And eat for pleasure then? How can you just switch? Isn't that a recipe for disaster...? Making it sooo easy to slip back to old habits? I am eating both for health and for pleasure now, trying to be sensible and kind to myself at the same time. I cook most of my meals from scratch, and they all taste delicious. I never eat anything I don't like, but I don't eat everything I like at once either.
If that's the case, then I wonder how you put on the extra weight that you've now nearly (congrats!) lost?0 -
DawnieB1977 wrote: »DawnieB1977 wrote: »feisty_bucket wrote: »Is food really that interesting? I think foodies are ridiculous. The reason anybody is overweight is because they get so excited about stimulating their taste buds. You see it all over the Thanksgiving threads here: "I ate 8000 calories today, YOLO!!" On a weight-loss forum. WTF.
No, the reason people are overweight is because they eat too much. People seem to enjoy junk like dominoes, McDonald's, crappy American chocolate etc. I'd hardly call that stimulating your taste buds.
There's no reason you can't enjoy tasty food. When food is really good you don't have to have huge portions of it.
There are plenty of chefs who aren't overweight. There's a show here called The Great British Bake-Off. The woman, Mary Berry, on that is slim and she can still make yummy food.
I'd much rather make myself a stir fry with ginger, chilli etc that shove some tasteless crap in the microwave.
Personally I eat when I'm hungry, but I make sure it's foods I enjoy.
I'll beg to differ. A&W Teen Burger and poutine are the two most delicious fast food items and they are extremely stimulating.
I'm English and I've never had either, so I'll take your word for it
you haven't lived yet if you haven't been to A and W.
I don't even know what it is! Next time I go to the US (I assume that's where it is?) I'll go there
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I honestly would not want to live if I could not enjoy my food. I look forward to every single meal I eat.
Eating things you don't enjoy, will not make you live longer. It will just make it feel that way.0 -
The Blue Zone (longest lived people on the planet) proves that pretty much any food preferences work and none of those groups do that by unilaterally understanding nutrition.0
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KGRebelRanch wrote: »
I don't eat for pleasure. That is not to say I don't enjoy eating once in a while. I eat when my blood sugar drops, or I get hungry. Then again, I grew up poor and now I live self sufficiently so food is not a luxury and never has been here. In my house, you eat what you need, no more. There are times the garden does poorly or the meat-raised animals don't grow as fast as you'd like so you have to stretch what you have until everything is straightened back out. Eating is just a necessity, not a hobby or a pastime. It's not supposed to be fun or exciting-it's supposed to keep you from dying.kommodevaran wrote: »Why? And how does it work out?
I see quite often people in here stating that they now eat only to fuel their bodies, not for pleasure. Are those the same people who used to be overweight? And eat for pleasure then? How can you just switch? Isn't that a recipe for disaster...? Making it sooo easy to slip back to old habits? I am eating both for health and for pleasure now, trying to be sensible and kind to myself at the same time. I cook most of my meals from scratch, and they all taste delicious. I never eat anything I don't like, but I don't eat everything I like at once either.
I'm sorry, but this seems very sad to me. I cant imagine a world where I didnt enjoy my food or the social aspect of a good meal with friends or family. Yes, it's main purpose is to sustain life, but why on earth can't it be enjoyable while doing that?0 -
feisty_bucket wrote: »My comment being down on "foodies" was flippant, and I'm sorry if someone felt personally disrespected about their interests. That was not my intention. Of course, you should enjoy everything in life as much as possible. I'm a competent cook myself and make good food and like eating it.
My points:
1. the mechanics of weight loss are simple ("eat less, move more")
2. yet fat people exist, despite the fact that being fat is a bad idea
3. therefore, the problem is psychological
When considering food (and everything), utility must come first. Ignoring calories and macros, whether as a food aficionado or mindless eater, is disastrous.
Carry on!
Nah, I think the problem is a lack of education. At school I wasn't taught that it was calories in and calories out. I was taught that vegetables are good and chocolate is bad. So whenever I tried to diet I'd end up maintaining my overweight state on 'healthy' foods because I was always taught that it's 2000 calories for a woman and 2500 for a man, way more than I should have had. I wasn't taught about BMR or BMI or TDEE. Many people don't understand how weight loss works and this is WHY they ignore calories and macros.
Also, there's nothing wrong with 8000 calories of Christmas food if it's just one day. As long as someone doesn't eat that every day and only once a year, it's fine. 0 -
MarziPanda95 wrote: »
Nah, I think the problem is a lack of education. At school I wasn't taught that it was calories in and calories out. I was taught that vegetables are good and chocolate is bad. So whenever I tried to diet I'd end up maintaining my overweight state on 'healthy' foods because I was always taught that it's 2000 calories for a woman and 2500 for a man, way more than I should have had. I wasn't taught about BMR or BMI or TDEE. Many people don't understand how weight loss works and this is WHY they ignore calories and macros.
Also, there's nothing wrong with 8000 calories of Christmas food if it's just one day. As long as someone doesn't eat that every day and only once a year, it's fine.
Very much this, I was in my mid 20's before I had any real concept of calories or even realized there was a formula for how much I should eat in a day. I didn't care to read nutrition labels because I had no idea what to do with the information that was given by them. I was always really active as a child/teen so I never needed to worry about how much I ate but once I hit college and a desk job I consistently gained weight without understanding why or how to stop it.
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What I initially wanted to discuss - although a lot of interesting stuff has come up - was whether eating healthy food you don't like, is a common reason people give up their diet/new lifestyle. People who have succeeded in their lifestyle change, do they (we) as a rule, aim to find healthy enough alternatives that also taste good and fit in with our everyday life? Shouldn't that be taught, preferably in school, but at least be adressed in the government nutrition leaflets? I feel the guidelines are way too "lean and green" for most people's taste, and unneccessarily so as well.0
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kommodevaran wrote: »whether eating healthy food you don't like, is a common reason people give up their diet/new lifestyle. People who have succeeded in their lifestyle change, do they (we) as a rule, aim to find healthy enough alternatives that also taste good and fit in with our everyday life?
Not sure what other people eat/try to eat, but I get the impression a lot of (non-fitness-minded) folks think "eating healthy" means kale smoothies and bean sprouts and rice cakes and whatnot, 1980s "diet food" nonsense. So the whole idea seems repugnant to people who don't know any better.Shouldn't that be taught, preferably in school, but at least be addressed in the government nutrition leaflets? I feel the guidelines are way too "lean and green" for most people's taste, and unnecessarily so as well.
Yeah, I think you're right. These "healthy eating initiatives" I see, seem to focus on things like home gardening and fresh produce and... kale smoothies. "Healthy snacks! Don't eat potato chips, instead eat... kale chips!" Argh.
If they were serious, they'd be pushing TDEEs, calorie tracking, and basic bodyfat measurement with a tape measure. Simple, effective, dirt-cheap things that anyone can do and understand.0
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