Sugar - possibly the easiest thing to cut back on for weight loss!
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Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »You do realize as I and Tigers pointed out sucrose is found in fruits? There is no excessive fixation on fructose. I do agree the issue is hyperpalatable foods, but as you already saw from one astute poster they laid blame totally on added sugars as what caused their binges
The OP has no point, as sugar has many uses then just a "quick energy fix", and many "sugar" laden foods are highly nutritious and packed with micros.
Yes, I do realize that you and Tigers have pointed out that sucrose is found in fruit.
I have no idea why the two of you are fixated on that point, but clearly you need closure, so here it is -- I saw that you wrote that and I believe you.
You are absolutely right -- many people are blaming added sugars in their food as what causes their binges.
Because in their perception, sugar does cause their binges. They eat a sweet food and before you know it, they are eating the entire house. They don't feel this way about lettuce, so it must be the sugar!
So what does cause their binges? Well who the hell knows -- we never get to the point of discussing that because we get caught up immediately in the fructose loop. heh heh fruit loops I made a joke right there!
The end result is that we get no where. The OP doesn't get help and the issue of binging isn't discussed in any complex or intelligent way.
The next time someone says they are addicted to sugar, just please don't start the tired old fructose subthread.
And don't just blame people for being lazy or weak-willed -- that's simplistic obstructionism. Human beings have a powerful built-in response to food -- it's called instinct! -- and for many people, that response is abnormal and needs some tweeking. For some people, the tweeking is as simple as understanding CICO, and for others, the tweeking needs to be medical intervention.
I love how you ask what the problem is and then quality if with that you will not accept lack of will power as an answer..
sorry to break it to you but the answer is that people binge and over eat due to a lack of will power, period.
The captain has spoken.
/thread
i hear a fly buzzing….0 -
Deirdre,DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »I love how you ask what the problem is and then quality if with that you will not accept lack of will power as an answer..
sorry to break it to you but the answer is that people binge and over eat due to a lack of will power, period.
Alright, screw it. Let's do this.(
I binge on sugary foods. How do I get willpower to not binge on them?
I personally believe willpower is part of the equation, but also not going on food binges is making some important mindset changes. Shoot, I can share what worked for me to stop all the ridiculous binges I was doing.
The most important thing for me to learn was that no foods are good or bad. It's all just food and I have a million choices of what to eat. It is my choice to eat a small sliver of cake, or a bigger piece, or even a bigger piece, or even the whole damned pie.
In fact, that choice is in effect with every food I come across. How much do I choose to eat? It's always up to me. And, even knowing I have the choice, I worked very hard to change the old messages about food being good or bad, and had to figure out why I was eating so much food. For me, an overload of sweet foods provided comfort. I had to learn to start talking to people instead of eating my problems away.
Secondly, there's portion control. What does 65 grams of my lactose free ice cream look like? What I learned is that it certainly does not look like the heap I was putting in my bowl two years ago. Shoot, since that's the case, I can even use a smaller bowl for my ice cream.
I also learned all about accountability. I take the bowl out of the cabinet, put the bowl on the scale, put a portion in (or sometimes a bit more or a bit less), put the ice cream away, and then I eat. I weigh all my food and log it all. I put the package away. I don't eat of packages, which is something I used to do.
Finally, I needed to learn to be patient, tolerant, and kind with myself. I don't need to deprive myself. I really can have just one cookie, maybe two, and don't need any more. I don't need to make things more complicated. Plan my meals, eat the foods I love, and take it from there. If I slip up, okay-it happens.
However, this is what worked for me and may not necessarily work for someone (or anyone) else. I am quite proud of the fact that I can now have any kind of food I love in the house and I don't eat it all up. I have cookies I bought a few weeks ago, ice cream, nuts, chips, and they no longer scream or try to jump out at me. They just stay in their places until I choose to have some.
Nobody does this weight loss journey perfectly. Forgive me for being so bold, and no offense intended, but from reading your posts I wonder if that's part of what's going on with you-it's all or nothing and you have to be perfect about it or everything goes to the wayside.
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lemurcat12 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »Someone says "I'm addicted to sugar" and you immediately jump to fructose and point out how no one has an apple addiction.
That's a ridiculous jump in logic. The much more reasonable jump is that when OP says he or she is addicted to sugar, he or she is strugging with really tasty foods like Oreos or pasta and cream sauce. If the OP's struggle is with sweet foods, then yes, sucrose is involved, but most likely in an environment that includes fat and flour. Most OPs aren't complaining that they are eating tablespoons of sugar out of the bowl.
I agree with your understanding of what such an OP would be saying, but that's why it's illogical and, frankly, just not true to blame it on an "addiction to sugar." That's why people point out that obviously that's not the issue.
Why don't people just say what they mean?
Because they don't know what they are talking about. That's why they are overweight and on MFP looking for help.
Why do you assume that overweight people are ignorant?
No one assumes they are ignorant, but if you have never researched nutrition, most likely you are listening to the media hype and what not. Since most of that is quackery, of course people will come here "ignorant". They don't know they are ignorant because they know nothing more than what they see on TV and in magazines. They have to start learning somehow.
I'm talking about Deirdre's specific claim that linked them being overweight to not knowing what they are talking about.
I don't think most people are overweight because they lack knowledge. (They might also lack knowledge, of course, but the "addicted to sugar" thing is an irritating failure of common sense.)
I think a lot of people are overweight because they lack knowledge. I'm talking in general, not just about this thread or subject. When the whole world is telling you sugar is evil, eventually you believe it. I think that's where most people come here at right now because sugar is evil is the trend right now. I agree that people aren't addicted to sugar (That's the camp I'm in), but that doesn't keep me from understanding that other people might think they are).
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Amen.girlviernes wrote: »DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »I love how you ask what the problem is and then quality if with that you will not accept lack of will power as an answer..
sorry to break it to you but the answer is that people binge and over eat due to a lack of will power, period.
Alright, screw it. Let's do this.
I binge on sugary foods. How do I get willpower to not binge on them?
will·pow·er[ wíl pòwr ]
determination and self-discipline: a combination of determination and self-discipline that enables somebody to do something despite the difficulties involved
Hmmm... I guess you just have to practice.
How do I practice determination when I am already determined to not binge but then I do binge? How do I practice self-discipline when I am on my knees crying and telling myself not to eat that cookie as my hand is reaching for it?
A dictionary definition isn't a plan of action. What's the plan of action? Where do I get willpower from?
IMO, it's like any other skill you want to develop. Maybe the missing link is patience...
Well, you must have figured it out, all it takes is willpower! All the obesity researchers who have found over and over that relying on willpower alone simply does not work for most people are just completely clueless. Next time I work with a binge eating client I'll be sure to tell them to just not binge.
Sorry to not contribute wisely to this conversation, but seriously you are wrong on this. Willpower of course plays a role and can be strengthened, but there is so much more to the picture of weight loss and binge eating.
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tigersword wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »Someone says "I'm addicted to sugar" and you immediately jump to fructose and point out how no one has an apple addiction.
That's a ridiculous jump in logic. The much more reasonable jump is that when OP says he or she is addicted to sugar, he or she is strugging with really tasty foods like Oreos or pasta and cream sauce. If the OP's struggle is with sweet foods, then yes, sucrose is involved, but most likely in an environment that includes fat and flour. Most OPs aren't complaining that they are eating tablespoons of sugar out of the bowl.
I agree with your understanding of what such an OP would be saying, but that's why it's illogical and, frankly, just not true to blame it on an "addiction to sugar." That's why people point out that obviously that's not the issue.
Why don't people just say what they mean?
Because they don't know what they are talking about. That's why they are overweight and on MFP looking for help.
Why do you assume that overweight people are ignorant?
No one assumes they are ignorant, but if you have never researched nutrition, most likely you are listening to the media hype and what not. Since most of that is quackery, of course people will come here "ignorant". They don't know they are ignorant because they know nothing more than what they see on TV and in magazines. They have to start learning somehow.
And that's just it. They need to learn. Yet when someone corrects them, that's apparently a horrible thing according to this thread. Rather than learn about food, just stop eating it, because why bother learn about something when you can just stay ignorant?
I agree they need to learn. My post wasn't on one side or the other, just saying how I understand people coming here believing quackery.
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tigersword wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
I thought her reference to fructose made perfect sense. It has everything to do with every thread on limiting added sugars.DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »You do realize as I and Tigers pointed out sucrose is found in fruits? There is no excessive fixation on fructose. I do agree the issue is hyperpalatable foods, but as you already saw from one astute poster they laid blame totally on added sugars as what caused their binges
The OP has no point, as sugar has many uses then just a "quick energy fix", and many "sugar" laden foods are highly nutritious and packed with micros.
Yes, I do realize that you and Tigers have pointed out that sucrose is found in fruit.
I have no idea why the two of you are fixated on that point, but clearly you need closure, so here it is -- I saw that you wrote that and I believe you.
You are absolutely right -- many people are blaming added sugars in their food as what causes their binges.
Because in their perception, sugar does cause their binges. They eat a sweet food and before you know it, they are eating the entire house. They don't feel this way about lettuce, so it must be the sugar!
So what does cause their binges? Well who the hell knows -- we never get to the point of discussing that because we get caught up immediately in the fructose loop. heh heh fruit loops I made a joke right there!
The end result is that we get no where. The OP doesn't get help and the issue of binging isn't discussed in any complex or intelligent way.
The next time someone says they are addicted to sugar, just please don't start the tired old fructose subthread.
And don't just blame people for being lazy or weak-willed -- that's simplistic obstructionism. Human beings have a powerful built-in response to food -- it's called instinct! -- and for many people, that response is abnormal and needs some tweeking. For some people, the tweeking is as simple as understanding CICO, and for others, the tweeking needs to be medical intervention.
They may not be lazy or weak willed but certainly you could call them ignorant. If someone says they are addicted to sugar, they should know what sugar actually is, right? Again you're bringing up fructose when that never has anything to do with any of the "sugar addict" threads, why?
How? Point to one thread where anyone brought up fructose as a counter to someone claiming sugar addiction. They don't exist.
Every thread on sugar addiction eventually falls back to "if it's sugar, why don't you binge on apples".0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »Someone says "I'm addicted to sugar" and you immediately jump to fructose and point out how no one has an apple addiction.
That's a ridiculous jump in logic. The much more reasonable jump is that when OP says he or she is addicted to sugar, he or she is strugging with really tasty foods like Oreos or pasta and cream sauce. If the OP's struggle is with sweet foods, then yes, sucrose is involved, but most likely in an environment that includes fat and flour. Most OPs aren't complaining that they are eating tablespoons of sugar out of the bowl.
I agree with your understanding of what such an OP would be saying, but that's why it's illogical and, frankly, just not true to blame it on an "addiction to sugar." That's why people point out that obviously that's not the issue.
Why don't people just say what they mean?
Because they don't know what they are talking about. That's why they are overweight and on MFP looking for help.
Why do you assume that overweight people are ignorant?
No one assumes they are ignorant, but if you have never researched nutrition, most likely you are listening to the media hype and what not. Since most of that is quackery, of course people will come here "ignorant". They don't know they are ignorant because they know nothing more than what they see on TV and in magazines. They have to start learning somehow.
I'm talking about Deirdre's specific claim that linked them being overweight to not knowing what they are talking about.
I don't think most people are overweight because they lack knowledge. (They might also lack knowledge, of course, but the "addicted to sugar" thing is an irritating failure of common sense.)
I think a lot of people are overweight because they lack knowledge. I'm talking in general, not just about this thread or subject. When the whole world is telling you sugar is evil, eventually you believe it. I think that's where most people come here at right now because sugar is evil is the trend right now. I agree that people aren't addicted to sugar (That's the camp I'm in), but that doesn't keep me from understanding that other people might think they are).
sadly most people just want a scapegoat and then other people pray on them with books about no carbs after 6pm, sugar makes you fat, how to detox to jumpstart metabolism, bla bla ...0 -
tigersword wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »Someone says "I'm addicted to sugar" and you immediately jump to fructose and point out how no one has an apple addiction.
That's a ridiculous jump in logic. The much more reasonable jump is that when OP says he or she is addicted to sugar, he or she is strugging with really tasty foods like Oreos or pasta and cream sauce. If the OP's struggle is with sweet foods, then yes, sucrose is involved, but most likely in an environment that includes fat and flour. Most OPs aren't complaining that they are eating tablespoons of sugar out of the bowl.
I agree with your understanding of what such an OP would be saying, but that's why it's illogical and, frankly, just not true to blame it on an "addiction to sugar." That's why people point out that obviously that's not the issue.
Why don't people just say what they mean?
Because they don't know what they are talking about. That's why they are overweight and on MFP looking for help.
Why do you assume that overweight people are ignorant?
No one assumes they are ignorant, but if you have never researched nutrition, most likely you are listening to the media hype and what not. Since most of that is quackery, of course people will come here "ignorant". They don't know they are ignorant because they know nothing more than what they see on TV and in magazines. They have to start learning somehow.
And that's just it. They need to learn. Yet when someone corrects them, that's apparently a horrible thing according to this thread. Rather than learn about food, just stop eating it, because why bother learn about something when you can just stay ignorant?
Who says everyone who eliminates, (or reduces) is ignorant? I don't consider myself ignorant. But perhaps you do.0 -
Tigers world explicitly referred to folks who eliminate foods as ignorant. Deidre did not.lemurcat12 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »Someone says "I'm addicted to sugar" and you immediately jump to fructose and point out how no one has an apple addiction.
That's a ridiculous jump in logic. The much more reasonable jump is that when OP says he or she is addicted to sugar, he or she is strugging with really tasty foods like Oreos or pasta and cream sauce. If the OP's struggle is with sweet foods, then yes, sucrose is involved, but most likely in an environment that includes fat and flour. Most OPs aren't complaining that they are eating tablespoons of sugar out of the bowl.
I agree with your understanding of what such an OP would be saying, but that's why it's illogical and, frankly, just not true to blame it on an "addiction to sugar." That's why people point out that obviously that's not the issue.
Why don't people just say what they mean?
Because they don't know what they are talking about. That's why they are overweight and on MFP looking for help.
Why do you assume that overweight people are ignorant?
No one assumes they are ignorant, but if you have never researched nutrition, most likely you are listening to the media hype and what not. Since most of that is quackery, of course people will come here "ignorant". They don't know they are ignorant because they know nothing more than what they see on TV and in magazines. They have to start learning somehow.
I'm talking about Deirdre's specific claim that linked them being overweight to not knowing what they are talking about.
I don't think most people are overweight because they lack knowledge. (They might also lack knowledge, of course, but the "addicted to sugar" thing is an irritating failure of common sense.)0 -
Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »tigersword wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »Someone says "I'm addicted to sugar" and you immediately jump to fructose and point out how no one has an apple addiction.
That's a ridiculous jump in logic. The much more reasonable jump is that when OP says he or she is addicted to sugar, he or she is strugging with really tasty foods like Oreos or pasta and cream sauce. If the OP's struggle is with sweet foods, then yes, sucrose is involved, but most likely in an environment that includes fat and flour. Most OPs aren't complaining that they are eating tablespoons of sugar out of the bowl.
I agree with your understanding of what such an OP would be saying, but that's why it's illogical and, frankly, just not true to blame it on an "addiction to sugar." That's why people point out that obviously that's not the issue.
Why don't people just say what they mean?
Because they don't know what they are talking about. That's why they are overweight and on MFP looking for help.
Why do you assume that overweight people are ignorant?
No one assumes they are ignorant, but if you have never researched nutrition, most likely you are listening to the media hype and what not. Since most of that is quackery, of course people will come here "ignorant". They don't know they are ignorant because they know nothing more than what they see on TV and in magazines. They have to start learning somehow.
And that's just it. They need to learn. Yet when someone corrects them, that's apparently a horrible thing according to this thread. Rather than learn about food, just stop eating it, because why bother learn about something when you can just stay ignorant?
Who says everyone who eliminates, (or reduces) is ignorant? I don't consider myself ignorant. But perhaps you do.
Is that what I said? No, don't think it is. Try reading it again. Stop building strawmen.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »
What other choice do you have?
Eliminate the food altogether. End of binges.
Once I eliminated desserts from my diet, my willpower miraculously recovered from its oddly lopsided weakness.
Doesn't work for everyone. Someone in a challenge I've been in has been struggling with binging and was terribly derailed by a part of the challenge that focused on giving up foods. It resulted in her getting back into a restrict and binge cycle.
I don't think there's a one-size-fits-all answer to binging, but at heart it seems to be a psychological issue.
I also don't think binging is as common as you seem to assume. Not that it's uncommon, but probably most overweight people didn't get overweight from binging. It's confused, at bit, because people use the term "binge" quite often to refer to mere overeating.
If I have delicious Christmas cookies in my office break room (and in fact I do), and tell myself I can have just one (as I did yesterday) and then decide it was so delicious that I break down and have another, which doesn't fit in my calories, that's not addiction (for the record, I didn't). It's that the cookies taste good.
Similarly, if I'm at work late and pissed about it and walk by the peanut M&Ms and say "to heck with it" and grab a handful (which I used to do all the time, before I started focusing on my weight), and then go back to get more throughout the evening (same), I may have a perception that I can't stop myself, it's an irresistible impulse, but it's not really and, again, nothing remotely like addiction.
These are the kinds of things the word "addiction" is about as often as actual binging, IMO.
Good points on binging. Rates vary, but it's thought that about 1/3 of people with obesity would qualify for binge eating. I'm in the binge eating group here, and it does seem like a lot of people are reporting subjective binges.
The truth re food addiction is that this topic has not been studied for very long. I don't think the science can really give us a good answer on whether or not peoples' experiences are an "addiction." There was a review out this summer arguing that there isn't a chemical addiction but rather possibly a behavioral addiction (like gambling).
When I reflect on my experience... did I have withdrawals? no. Did I necessarily go to huge lengths to acquire the substance? no. Did I have tolerance? Not really although quantities tended to increase over time. I guess I hold a few possibilities in mind, but my working hypothesis is that the insulin resistance meant that the quantities of sugary and starchy foods and fairly low fat/low protein that I was consuming really did a number on me and kept me in cravings/hunger mode. That combined with psychological factors such as shame, learned helplessness, and counterwill fueled my behavior.
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girlviernes wrote: »DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »I love how you ask what the problem is and then quality if with that you will not accept lack of will power as an answer..
sorry to break it to you but the answer is that people binge and over eat due to a lack of will power, period.
Alright, screw it. Let's do this.
I binge on sugary foods. How do I get willpower to not binge on them?
will·pow·er[ wíl pòwr ]
determination and self-discipline: a combination of determination and self-discipline that enables somebody to do something despite the difficulties involved
Hmmm... I guess you just have to practice.
How do I practice determination when I am already determined to not binge but then I do binge? How do I practice self-discipline when I am on my knees crying and telling myself not to eat that cookie as my hand is reaching for it?
A dictionary definition isn't a plan of action. What's the plan of action? Where do I get willpower from?
IMO, it's like any other skill you want to develop. Maybe the missing link is patience...
Well, you must have figured it out, all it takes is willpower! All the obesity researchers who have found over and over that relying on willpower alone simply does not work for most people are just completely clueless. Next time I work with a binge eating client I'll be sure to tell them to just not binge.
Sorry to not contribute wisely to this conversation, but seriously you are wrong on this. Willpower of course plays a role and can be strengthened, but there is so much more to the picture of weight loss and binge eating.
Willpower is an important piece to get you started, but I completely agree that it's not the whole answer (or even the biggest part of the answer).
More important than willpower are habits. You need to change your habits. Habits are something that you do unconsciously and people feel like they have no control over. In my opinion, this is why people feel like they are "addicted" to sugar (I'm also in the camp that there is no such thing as a physical sugar addiction). People get stuck in habit cycles that they don't understand.
@DeirdreWoodwardSanders: Here's something actionable for you to do. Read "The Power of Habit" by Charles Duhigg. (Here's a summary of what he talks about in the book to get you started: charlesduhigg.com/how-habits-work/). He discusses how powerful habits really are in driving our actions and how they can make you feel powerless. But he teaches you how to break those cycles and reprogram your habits.0 -
Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
Tigers world explicitly referred to folks who eliminate foods as ignorant. Deidre did not.lemurcat12 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »Someone says "I'm addicted to sugar" and you immediately jump to fructose and point out how no one has an apple addiction.
That's a ridiculous jump in logic. The much more reasonable jump is that when OP says he or she is addicted to sugar, he or she is strugging with really tasty foods like Oreos or pasta and cream sauce. If the OP's struggle is with sweet foods, then yes, sucrose is involved, but most likely in an environment that includes fat and flour. Most OPs aren't complaining that they are eating tablespoons of sugar out of the bowl.
I agree with your understanding of what such an OP would be saying, but that's why it's illogical and, frankly, just not true to blame it on an "addiction to sugar." That's why people point out that obviously that's not the issue.
Why don't people just say what they mean?
Because they don't know what they are talking about. That's why they are overweight and on MFP looking for help.
Why do you assume that overweight people are ignorant?
No one assumes they are ignorant, but if you have never researched nutrition, most likely you are listening to the media hype and what not. Since most of that is quackery, of course people will come here "ignorant". They don't know they are ignorant because they know nothing more than what they see on TV and in magazines. They have to start learning somehow.
I'm talking about Deirdre's specific claim that linked them being overweight to not knowing what they are talking about.
I don't think most people are overweight because they lack knowledge. (They might also lack knowledge, of course, but the "addicted to sugar" thing is an irritating failure of common sense.)
No, Deirdre just claimed that the reason people get fat is they are ignorant.
But I didn't read Tigersword to be saying that anyone who eliminated food was ignorant. Just that if you eliminate it because you think you are addicted to sugar, that's ignorant.
I think eliminating trigger foods can be a good strategy, although probably shouldn't be the whole strategy, as there's something underlying them being triggers for many and you might as well understand that, even if it's simply your reaction to hyperpalatability.
(Totally apart from what seems to be an effort to make the thread about people who binge when most people don't, I think eliminating certain kinds of foods from one's diet--if you like to call it that--can be a perfectly fine strategy.)
Claiming it's an addiction in this context is usually an effort to place responsibility elsewhere. It's especially annoying since with a real addiction it should be the opposite--it never is supposed to mean "I can't help it."0 -
Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »tigersword wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
I thought her reference to fructose made perfect sense. It has everything to do with every thread on limiting added sugars.DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »You do realize as I and Tigers pointed out sucrose is found in fruits? There is no excessive fixation on fructose. I do agree the issue is hyperpalatable foods, but as you already saw from one astute poster they laid blame totally on added sugars as what caused their binges
The OP has no point, as sugar has many uses then just a "quick energy fix", and many "sugar" laden foods are highly nutritious and packed with micros.
Yes, I do realize that you and Tigers have pointed out that sucrose is found in fruit.
I have no idea why the two of you are fixated on that point, but clearly you need closure, so here it is -- I saw that you wrote that and I believe you.
You are absolutely right -- many people are blaming added sugars in their food as what causes their binges.
Because in their perception, sugar does cause their binges. They eat a sweet food and before you know it, they are eating the entire house. They don't feel this way about lettuce, so it must be the sugar!
So what does cause their binges? Well who the hell knows -- we never get to the point of discussing that because we get caught up immediately in the fructose loop. heh heh fruit loops I made a joke right there!
The end result is that we get no where. The OP doesn't get help and the issue of binging isn't discussed in any complex or intelligent way.
The next time someone says they are addicted to sugar, just please don't start the tired old fructose subthread.
And don't just blame people for being lazy or weak-willed -- that's simplistic obstructionism. Human beings have a powerful built-in response to food -- it's called instinct! -- and for many people, that response is abnormal and needs some tweeking. For some people, the tweeking is as simple as understanding CICO, and for others, the tweeking needs to be medical intervention.
They may not be lazy or weak willed but certainly you could call them ignorant. If someone says they are addicted to sugar, they should know what sugar actually is, right? Again you're bringing up fructose when that never has anything to do with any of the "sugar addict" threads, why?
How? Point to one thread where anyone brought up fructose as a counter to someone claiming sugar addiction. They don't exist.
Every thread on sugar addiction eventually falls back to "if it's sugar, why don't you binge on apples".
Apples contain fructose, glucose and sucrose. so again that's why her continual mention of fructose is silly0 -
Willpower is overrated, as it is a limited resource. I pre-package tempting foods to teach myself portion control. I eat slowly and mindfully. Some foods I used to over-eat are stored in the freezer and I defrost one portion at a time.
This can backfire. I have a friend who developed a taste for frozen chocolate almonds.0 -
Willpower is overrated, as it is a limited resource. I pre-package tempting foods to teach myself portion control. I eat slowly and mindfully. Some foods I used to over-eat are stored in the freezer and I defrost one portion at a time.
This can backfire. I have a friend who developed a taste for frozen chocolate almonds.
if you don't have willpower how do you teach yourself portion control? Seems you would need one for the other...0 -
Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »tigersword wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
I thought her reference to fructose made perfect sense. It has everything to do with every thread on limiting added sugars.DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »You do realize as I and Tigers pointed out sucrose is found in fruits? There is no excessive fixation on fructose. I do agree the issue is hyperpalatable foods, but as you already saw from one astute poster they laid blame totally on added sugars as what caused their binges
The OP has no point, as sugar has many uses then just a "quick energy fix", and many "sugar" laden foods are highly nutritious and packed with micros.
Yes, I do realize that you and Tigers have pointed out that sucrose is found in fruit.
I have no idea why the two of you are fixated on that point, but clearly you need closure, so here it is -- I saw that you wrote that and I believe you.
You are absolutely right -- many people are blaming added sugars in their food as what causes their binges.
Because in their perception, sugar does cause their binges. They eat a sweet food and before you know it, they are eating the entire house. They don't feel this way about lettuce, so it must be the sugar!
So what does cause their binges? Well who the hell knows -- we never get to the point of discussing that because we get caught up immediately in the fructose loop. heh heh fruit loops I made a joke right there!
The end result is that we get no where. The OP doesn't get help and the issue of binging isn't discussed in any complex or intelligent way.
The next time someone says they are addicted to sugar, just please don't start the tired old fructose subthread.
And don't just blame people for being lazy or weak-willed -- that's simplistic obstructionism. Human beings have a powerful built-in response to food -- it's called instinct! -- and for many people, that response is abnormal and needs some tweeking. For some people, the tweeking is as simple as understanding CICO, and for others, the tweeking needs to be medical intervention.
They may not be lazy or weak willed but certainly you could call them ignorant. If someone says they are addicted to sugar, they should know what sugar actually is, right? Again you're bringing up fructose when that never has anything to do with any of the "sugar addict" threads, why?
How? Point to one thread where anyone brought up fructose as a counter to someone claiming sugar addiction. They don't exist.
Every thread on sugar addiction eventually falls back to "if it's sugar, why don't you binge on apples".
Or spoon it out of the jar.
But I think this is a legitimate point. If we are going to talk about something, we need to talk about it accurately. If someone told me she was "addicted to malbec" and had a habit of embarrassing herself and blacking out when drinking it, so was going to switch to pinot, I'd think that was her fooling herself. This is kind of the opposite--but it's also failing to acknowledge the real issue.0 -
I didn't bother reading all the pages of responses/side conversations and debates. I'll just say that I generally think it's better for me to focus on what I *can* have within my calorie and nutrient requirements as opposed to what I should get rid of. It's just more sustainable for me over time.
It's always going to be a more positive experience if I can figure out what I can get away with vs figuring out what's going on the chopping block. It may seem like a difference without a distinction, b/c we can get essentially the same result either way, but there is a distinction for me.
Whether or not I can get away with more sugar, or fat, or...whatever else is completely irrelevant because all of my nutritional needs are being met. I don't know that anyone is suggesting this, but it's not as if I get good diet karma for having less candy even though it can fit within my framework.0 -
0
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lemurcat12 wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »tigersword wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
I thought her reference to fructose made perfect sense. It has everything to do with every thread on limiting added sugars.DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »You do realize as I and Tigers pointed out sucrose is found in fruits? There is no excessive fixation on fructose. I do agree the issue is hyperpalatable foods, but as you already saw from one astute poster they laid blame totally on added sugars as what caused their binges
The OP has no point, as sugar has many uses then just a "quick energy fix", and many "sugar" laden foods are highly nutritious and packed with micros.
Yes, I do realize that you and Tigers have pointed out that sucrose is found in fruit.
I have no idea why the two of you are fixated on that point, but clearly you need closure, so here it is -- I saw that you wrote that and I believe you.
You are absolutely right -- many people are blaming added sugars in their food as what causes their binges.
Because in their perception, sugar does cause their binges. They eat a sweet food and before you know it, they are eating the entire house. They don't feel this way about lettuce, so it must be the sugar!
So what does cause their binges? Well who the hell knows -- we never get to the point of discussing that because we get caught up immediately in the fructose loop. heh heh fruit loops I made a joke right there!
The end result is that we get no where. The OP doesn't get help and the issue of binging isn't discussed in any complex or intelligent way.
The next time someone says they are addicted to sugar, just please don't start the tired old fructose subthread.
And don't just blame people for being lazy or weak-willed -- that's simplistic obstructionism. Human beings have a powerful built-in response to food -- it's called instinct! -- and for many people, that response is abnormal and needs some tweeking. For some people, the tweeking is as simple as understanding CICO, and for others, the tweeking needs to be medical intervention.
They may not be lazy or weak willed but certainly you could call them ignorant. If someone says they are addicted to sugar, they should know what sugar actually is, right? Again you're bringing up fructose when that never has anything to do with any of the "sugar addict" threads, why?
How? Point to one thread where anyone brought up fructose as a counter to someone claiming sugar addiction. They don't exist.
Every thread on sugar addiction eventually falls back to "if it's sugar, why don't you binge on apples".
Or spoon it out of the jar.
But I think this is a legitimate point. If we are going to talk about something, we need to talk about it accurately. If someone told me she was "addicted to malbec" and had a habit of embarrassing herself and blacking out when drinking it, so was going to switch to pinot, I'd think that was her fooling herself. This is kind of the opposite--but it's also failing to acknowledge the real issue.
agree ..
my favorite analogy is saying that is like saying I got off crack by snorting cocaine because cocaine is "natural" i.e., from a plant...0 -
girlviernes wrote: »The truth re food addiction is that this topic has not been studied for very long. I don't think the science can really give us a good answer on whether or not peoples' experiences are an "addiction." There was a review out this summer arguing that there isn't a chemical addiction but rather possibly a behavioral addiction (like gambling).
I was in a thread talking about that study, and as I said there, it makes sense to me. How people with binge eating disorder or people who compulsively overeat describe their issues sounds like addiction to me, or certainly like something closely related. I actually do find it quite interesting.
Where I get argumentative (not with anything you said) is (1) most of the threads using the term around here don't even sound like they are about binging--they are about people having trouble not eating foods they think are tasty, and (2) it's not a "sugar" addiction. The substance is not the issue, that's why people point out that no one overeats apples or sugar out of the jar.
I do agree with you that the issue is not "willpower" and certainly the solution needs to be something more (although following any strategy will also involve willpower, of course).0 -
Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »tigersword wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
I thought her reference to fructose made perfect sense. It has everything to do with every thread on limiting added sugars.DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »You do realize as I and Tigers pointed out sucrose is found in fruits? There is no excessive fixation on fructose. I do agree the issue is hyperpalatable foods, but as you already saw from one astute poster they laid blame totally on added sugars as what caused their binges
The OP has no point, as sugar has many uses then just a "quick energy fix", and many "sugar" laden foods are highly nutritious and packed with micros.
Yes, I do realize that you and Tigers have pointed out that sucrose is found in fruit.
I have no idea why the two of you are fixated on that point, but clearly you need closure, so here it is -- I saw that you wrote that and I believe you.
You are absolutely right -- many people are blaming added sugars in their food as what causes their binges.
Because in their perception, sugar does cause their binges. They eat a sweet food and before you know it, they are eating the entire house. They don't feel this way about lettuce, so it must be the sugar!
So what does cause their binges? Well who the hell knows -- we never get to the point of discussing that because we get caught up immediately in the fructose loop. heh heh fruit loops I made a joke right there!
The end result is that we get no where. The OP doesn't get help and the issue of binging isn't discussed in any complex or intelligent way.
The next time someone says they are addicted to sugar, just please don't start the tired old fructose subthread.
And don't just blame people for being lazy or weak-willed -- that's simplistic obstructionism. Human beings have a powerful built-in response to food -- it's called instinct! -- and for many people, that response is abnormal and needs some tweeking. For some people, the tweeking is as simple as understanding CICO, and for others, the tweeking needs to be medical intervention.
They may not be lazy or weak willed but certainly you could call them ignorant. If someone says they are addicted to sugar, they should know what sugar actually is, right? Again you're bringing up fructose when that never has anything to do with any of the "sugar addict" threads, why?
How? Point to one thread where anyone brought up fructose as a counter to someone claiming sugar addiction. They don't exist.
Every thread on sugar addiction eventually falls back to "if it's sugar, why don't you binge on apples".
Apples contain fructose, glucose and sucrose. so again that's why her continual mention of fructose is silly
Apples also contain fiber and protein, slowing the glucose spike and making them more satisfying than something that is all sugar, and thus a binge is less likely. The apple is metabolized more slowly than something that has all its calories from sugar (sucrose, HFCS). Apples come naturally portion controlled (unlike a box of cookies), which makes it easier to realize when a serving has been eaten. Also, an apple has less sugar (10 grams only a couple of which are sucrose) than, say, a can of soda (41 grams for 340 ml of Pepsi, pretty much all sucrose), so there is less of a glucose spike and "sugar high". Apples have pectin that appears to help lower LDL cholesterol. Apples have vitamin C and polyphenolic compounts that fight free radicals (protect from cancer), trace minerals like magnesium, potassium and calcium, that are good for the body's aches and pains (among other things), and a host of B vitamins, which are neccessary for maintaining red blood cells and the nervous system. Apples are in no way an equivalent match to soda, or most sugary junk food when making a comparison as far as sucrose impact. Apples (and other fruits and vegetables) are a straw-man argument in this debate.0 -
DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »
What other choice do you have?
Eliminate the food altogether. End of binges.
Once I eliminated desserts from my diet, my willpower miraculously recovered from its oddly lopsided weakness.
Hopefully you can keep that up for the rest of your life...
Well, I've been dessert free for 10 years, so I'm pretty comfortable saying it's working for me.
But it doesn't work for everyone, and I certainly don't advocate that everyone has to eliminate their trigger foods. Some one else has pointed out that people have to figure out what works for them and I agree. To each his own.
But back to willpower. Why is my willpower lopsided? It works just fine with most foods but doesn't work at all with some foods.
And I'm serious about having a serious discussion. I'm not interested in shaming anyone or winning anything. I just want to follow the discussion of willpower to some interesting and useful place.0 -
Willpower is overrated, as it is a limited resource. I pre-package tempting foods to teach myself portion control. I eat slowly and mindfully. Some foods I used to over-eat are stored in the freezer and I defrost one portion at a time.
This can backfire. I have a friend who developed a taste for frozen chocolate almonds.
if you don't have willpower how do you teach yourself portion control? Seems you would need one for the other...
Screw willpower. What people need is to develop grit. Dogged consistent determination. I sound like a traitor in saying this but you DO have to want it bad enough. But that is only half of it. It's the getting to that point that is the problem for some people. They just don't know how to beat the weird game they have going on with themselves. They need to develop strategies. To teach themselves portion control. And how to do that's going to vary depending on their particular issue with food.0 -
I didn't say NO willpower. I said limited. Here's an experiment.
Put a big bowl of your favorite binge snack in a prominent place that you will pass often during the day. Say NO every time you pass. Muscle that willpower! You may be able to successfully pass that bowl every single time, but your willpower will be depleted. You might snap at a co-worker, for instance, in a momentary loss of control.
Now package up that favorite binge snack in individual portions and hide the rest away. This is strategic and requires only a little willpower. You now have self-control in reserve to be nice to your annoying co-worker.
There's good science behind this, too:
http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/04/the-chocolate-and-radish-experiment-that-birthed-the-modern-conception-of-willpower/255544/
0 -
Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »tigersword wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
I thought her reference to fructose made perfect sense. It has everything to do with every thread on limiting added sugars.DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »You do realize as I and Tigers pointed out sucrose is found in fruits? There is no excessive fixation on fructose. I do agree the issue is hyperpalatable foods, but as you already saw from one astute poster they laid blame totally on added sugars as what caused their binges
The OP has no point, as sugar has many uses then just a "quick energy fix", and many "sugar" laden foods are highly nutritious and packed with micros.
Yes, I do realize that you and Tigers have pointed out that sucrose is found in fruit.
I have no idea why the two of you are fixated on that point, but clearly you need closure, so here it is -- I saw that you wrote that and I believe you.
You are absolutely right -- many people are blaming added sugars in their food as what causes their binges.
Because in their perception, sugar does cause their binges. They eat a sweet food and before you know it, they are eating the entire house. They don't feel this way about lettuce, so it must be the sugar!
So what does cause their binges? Well who the hell knows -- we never get to the point of discussing that because we get caught up immediately in the fructose loop. heh heh fruit loops I made a joke right there!
The end result is that we get no where. The OP doesn't get help and the issue of binging isn't discussed in any complex or intelligent way.
The next time someone says they are addicted to sugar, just please don't start the tired old fructose subthread.
And don't just blame people for being lazy or weak-willed -- that's simplistic obstructionism. Human beings have a powerful built-in response to food -- it's called instinct! -- and for many people, that response is abnormal and needs some tweeking. For some people, the tweeking is as simple as understanding CICO, and for others, the tweeking needs to be medical intervention.
They may not be lazy or weak willed but certainly you could call them ignorant. If someone says they are addicted to sugar, they should know what sugar actually is, right? Again you're bringing up fructose when that never has anything to do with any of the "sugar addict" threads, why?
How? Point to one thread where anyone brought up fructose as a counter to someone claiming sugar addiction. They don't exist.
Every thread on sugar addiction eventually falls back to "if it's sugar, why don't you binge on apples".
Apples contain fructose, glucose and sucrose. so again that's why her continual mention of fructose is silly
Apples also contain fiber and protein, slowing the glucose spike and making them more satisfying than something that is all sugar, and thus a binge is less likely. The apple is metabolized more slowly than something that has all its calories from sugar (sucrose, HFCS). Apples come naturally portion controlled (unlike a box of cookies), which makes it easier to realize when a serving has been eaten. Also, an apple has less sugar (10 grams only a couple of which are sucrose) than, say, a can of soda (41 grams for 340 ml of Pepsi, pretty much all sucrose), so there is less of a glucose spike and "sugar high". Apples have pectin that appears to help lower LDL cholesterol. Apples have vitamin C and polyphenolic compounts that fight free radicals (protect from cancer), trace minerals like magnesium, potassium and calcium, that are good for the body's aches and pains (among other things), and a host of B vitamins, which are neccessary for maintaining red blood cells and the nervous system. Apples are in no way an equivalent match to soda, or most sugary junk food when making a comparison as far as sucrose impact. Apples (and other fruits and vegetables) are a straw-man argument in this debate.
I actually think the portion-control issue is a significant factor. People want to focus on the substance, but "binges" tend to involve eating a whole bag of something (chips, and similar non sugary things in addition to the sweets)--my guess is that that's not incidental at all.
Also, I don't think I've ever seen someone claiming to have binged on soda, sugary as it is.0 -
0
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baconslave wrote: »Willpower is overrated, as it is a limited resource. I pre-package tempting foods to teach myself portion control. I eat slowly and mindfully. Some foods I used to over-eat are stored in the freezer and I defrost one portion at a time.
This can backfire. I have a friend who developed a taste for frozen chocolate almonds.
if you don't have willpower how do you teach yourself portion control? Seems you would need one for the other...
Screw willpower. What people need is to develop grit. Dogged consistent determination. I sound like a traitor in saying this but you DO have to want it bad enough. But that is only half of it. It's the getting to that point that is the problem for some people. They just don't know how to beat the weird game they have going on with themselves. They need to develop strategies. To teach themselves portion control. And how to do that's going to vary depending on their particular issue with food.
I want it bad enough just not eat broccoli, brown rice and chicken breast five times a day bad enough.0 -
GeeWillickers wrote: »baconslave wrote: »Willpower is overrated, as it is a limited resource. I pre-package tempting foods to teach myself portion control. I eat slowly and mindfully. Some foods I used to over-eat are stored in the freezer and I defrost one portion at a time.
This can backfire. I have a friend who developed a taste for frozen chocolate almonds.
if you don't have willpower how do you teach yourself portion control? Seems you would need one for the other...
Screw willpower. What people need is to develop grit. Dogged consistent determination. I sound like a traitor in saying this but you DO have to want it bad enough. But that is only half of it. It's the getting to that point that is the problem for some people. They just don't know how to beat the weird game they have going on with themselves. They need to develop strategies. To teach themselves portion control. And how to do that's going to vary depending on their particular issue with food.
I want it bad enough just not eat broccoli, brown rice and chicken breast five times a day bad enough.
What?0
This discussion has been closed.
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