Sugar - possibly the easiest thing to cut back on for weight loss!
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DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »You do realize as I and Tigers pointed out sucrose is found in fruits? There is no excessive fixation on fructose. I do agree the issue is hyperpalatable foods, but as you already saw from one astute poster they laid blame totally on added sugars as what caused their binges
The OP has no point, as sugar has many uses then just a "quick energy fix", and many "sugar" laden foods are highly nutritious and packed with micros.
Yes, I do realize that you and Tigers have pointed out that sucrose is found in fruit.
I have no idea why the two of you are fixated on that point, but clearly you need closure, so here it is -- I saw that you wrote that and I believe you.
You are absolutely right -- many people are blaming added sugars in their food as what causes their binges.
Because in their perception, sugar does cause their binges. They eat a sweet food and before you know it, they are eating the entire house. They don't feel this way about lettuce, so it must be the sugar!
So what does cause their binges? Well who the hell knows -- we never get to the point of discussing that because we get caught up immediately in the fructose loop. heh heh fruit loops I made a joke right there!
The end result is that we get no where. The OP doesn't get help and the issue of binging isn't discussed in any complex or intelligent way.
The next time someone says they are addicted to sugar, just please don't start the tired old fructose subthread.
And don't just blame people for being lazy or weak-willed -- that's simplistic obstructionism. Human beings have a powerful built-in response to food -- it's called instinct! -- and for many people, that response is abnormal and needs some tweeking. For some people, the tweeking is as simple as understanding CICO, and for others, the tweeking needs to be medical intervention.
I love how you ask what the problem is and then quality if with that you will not accept lack of will power as an answer..
sorry to break it to you but the answer is that people binge and over eat due to a lack of will power, period.
The captain has spoken.
/thread0 -
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I love how you ask what the problem is and then quality if with that you will not accept lack of will power as an answer..
sorry to break it to you but the answer is that people binge and over eat due to a lack of will power, period.
Alright, screw it. Let's do this.
I binge on sugary foods. How do I get willpower to not binge on them?
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I'd like a bit of that willpower too. Where do I get if from?0
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DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »I love how you ask what the problem is and then quality if with that you will not accept lack of will power as an answer..
sorry to break it to you but the answer is that people binge and over eat due to a lack of will power, period.
Alright, screw it. Let's do this.
I binge on sugary foods. How do I get willpower to not binge on them?
will·pow·er[ wíl pòwr ]
determination and self-discipline: a combination of determination and self-discipline that enables somebody to do something despite the difficulties involved
Hmmm... I guess you just have to practice.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »Someone says "I'm addicted to sugar" and you immediately jump to fructose and point out how no one has an apple addiction.
That's a ridiculous jump in logic. The much more reasonable jump is that when OP says he or she is addicted to sugar, he or she is strugging with really tasty foods like Oreos or pasta and cream sauce. If the OP's struggle is with sweet foods, then yes, sucrose is involved, but most likely in an environment that includes fat and flour. Most OPs aren't complaining that they are eating tablespoons of sugar out of the bowl.
I agree with your understanding of what such an OP would be saying, but that's why it's illogical and, frankly, just not true to blame it on an "addiction to sugar." That's why people point out that obviously that's not the issue.
Why don't people just say what they mean?
Because they don't know what they are talking about. That's why they are overweight and on MFP looking for help.0 -
DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »I love how you ask what the problem is and then quality if with that you will not accept lack of will power as an answer..
sorry to break it to you but the answer is that people binge and over eat due to a lack of will power, period.
Alright, screw it. Let's do this.
I binge on sugary foods. How do I get willpower to not binge on them?
will·pow·er[ wíl pòwr ]
determination and self-discipline: a combination of determination and self-discipline that enables somebody to do something despite the difficulties involved
Hmmm... I guess you just have to practice.
How do I practice determination when I am already determined to not binge but then I do binge? How do I practice self-discipline when I am on my knees crying and telling myself not to eat that cookie as my hand is reaching for it?
A dictionary definition isn't a plan of action. What's the plan of action? Where do I get willpower from?
And why don't I have these issues with other foods? Why just sweet foods? How come my willpower, which works wonderfully well when I don't eat all of the delicious delicious steak, seems woefully broken when it comes to the pumpkin pie?0 -
DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »I love how you ask what the problem is and then quality if with that you will not accept lack of will power as an answer..
sorry to break it to you but the answer is that people binge and over eat due to a lack of will power, period.
Alright, screw it. Let's do this.
I binge on sugary foods. How do I get willpower to not binge on them?
will·pow·er[ wíl pòwr ]
determination and self-discipline: a combination of determination and self-discipline that enables somebody to do something despite the difficulties involved
Hmmm... I guess you just have to practice.
How do I practice determination when I am already determined to not binge but then I do binge? How do I practice self-discipline when I am on my knees crying and telling myself not to eat that cookie as my hand is reaching for it?
A dictionary definition isn't a plan of action. What's the plan of action? Where do I get willpower from?
IMO, it's like any other skill you want to develop. Maybe the missing link is patience...
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tennisdude2004 wrote: »baconslave wrote: »baconslave wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
Someone needs "evidence" for how they feel? What a silly board.baconslave wrote: »baconslave wrote: »baconslave wrote: »baconslave wrote: »baconslave wrote: »miketoryan wrote: »miketoryan wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »miketoryan wrote: »miketoryan wrote: »fiber isn't absorbed in the stomach or intestines.
Are you sure about that?
positive, with the caveat that the fermentation process in the colon does provide the body some energy, but it's a small amount, and I normally stick to mostly insoluble fiber anyway so I'm not worried about a couple grams of carbs getting into my body from soluble fiber.
Gotta get that quick edit / wikipedia copy & paste in
i'm not an idiot. i know the net calories isn't zero, but my total carbs is still under 30 grams a day. every gram of fiber isn't equal to a gram of starches or sugar, it doesn't cause a spike in insulin, it doesn't make me overeat, and it doesn't give me acid reflux like starches and sugar, so why would i care about 10-20 grams of fiber in my diet? we're talking inconsequential effects on my body.
unless sharting myself to do death is a thing that i haven't encountered yet
You sure about that? "personally i eliminated sugar all together" "my total carbs is still under 30 grams a day"
And who cares about insulin spikes, protein is highly insulinogenic
Yea, agree. There's a bunch of confusion within him.
i don't get it. you asked me if i completely eliminated carbohydrates and i told you i try to eat some fiber and there are incidental carbohydrates in a lot of food (such as nuts) and you say that's confusing. i still eliminated almost all the sugars. how is that confusing? you asked me if i eliminated them all and i wrote back that i eliminated all but a few that i get incidentally.
still confused?
He's being obtuse, because... there are sugars in veggies and fruits. You must say "I eliminated added sugars"... because semantics.
And that would be equally dumb, since the context was the elimination or non elimination of "sugar" reduced to eliminated cravings. So are you implying only added sugars cause cravings?
That depends entirely on who you ask, now doesn't it.
of course, there are those that live in reality and those that live in a fantasy world where all sorts of magical things happen
Fantasy world? Speaking of yourself?
For me, added sugars cause cravings. For others, it's other kinds of carbohydrates. Some people have no issues with cravings at all. That is how it is in "Reality Land" where I live. You should visit it sometime. Nice place.
So only added sugars cause cravings, how do you isolate that against all the other sugars in said product? And how does added sucrose differ from naturally occurring sucrose? Since n=1 are there any studies with large sample sizes that have found this to be true as well?
"For me, added sugars cause cravings. For others, it's other kinds of carbohydrates. Some people have no issues with cravings at all. That is how it is in "Reality Land" where I live. You should visit it sometime. Nice place."
Where in that did I say that "only added sugars cause cravings"?
FOR ME, the more foods with added sugars I consume, the more of them I crave. I no longer eat these foods; I no longer crave them. Fruit is complete "meh." I couldn't possibly care less about fruit, never have. Higher carbohydrate foods with natural sugars don't cause me to crave them obsessively. Even ones with low amounts of added sugars don't bother me as much (bread), but things like cakes and cookies, which have both and often higher added sugars, I used to crave a lot.
As I'm unlikely to have the funds to hire out scientists and a lab any time soon to evaluate extensively various affects each sugar has on my body, I'll have to settle with employing the powers of human observation and deductive reasoning to solve my problems.
I'm not the only human who has this issue with craving different foods. Whether or not the results of my personal experiment belong in a peer-reviewed journal, it is as it is.
I avoid added sugars, so I don't overeat them, so I'm in control, so I stay in a deficit, so I lose weight. Is there a problem with that? What? Calorie deficit is occurring? Well, everything is right with the universe then! Carry on, MFP! The universe is in balance.
So you do live in a fantasy world, where you've eliminated all possible confounders to determine it's the added sugars are the things that are causing cravings. Anecdotes =/= evidence, if you're going to make such a silly claim you should be able to back it up
Back it up with what, precisely? I have no scientists on retainer. Reality is the world where I am 70lbs lighter and have not eaten my trigger foods once and I have no cravings. How do you scientifically quantify "craving" anyway? If you'd like to fund the research about one human being, be my guest. It wouldn't be accurate. Sample-size too small, no control. Fantasy world is the one wherein your argument isn't absurd. Nice trolling though.
Whose argument is absurd? The one who claimed added sugars caused them cravings and backed it with zero evidence?
Malbec wines give me migraines. Do I need to provide you with evidence of that?
You as well, they don't need evidence for how they feel, if you actually read what was written she claimed added sugars caused cravings, I simply asked how she determined that and controlled for various confounders
I gave you your answer. But let's rehash.
I stopped eating the added-sugar foods. I already determined, from my observations of my eating habits, that foods with natural sugars only do not cause those "cravings" (feelings). (Which I did say a few posts up in that quote-maze-from-hell.) I started eating keto. I stopped eating the foods I suspected triggered cravings; the cravings stopped. I have continued for 6 months eating at keto macros and eliminating those foods. The cravings have not returned. Cravings that plagued me and fueled binges for 17 years. I haven't written a paper on it. There is no evidence I could produce to you that you would accept in any case. And had I a personal lab crew who submitted a study to a peer-reviewed publication, and it somehow magically met the criteria for significance and accuracy, you would still refute it.
Now if you actually wanted to analyze my experience further, you could criticize that the increase in protein and fat, to offset the decrease in carbs, had a role to play. Perhaps. The phase of the experiment in which I increase natural-sugar carbs while still restricting added sugars is an investigation I'm leaving for maintenance. Perhaps, further out, I will be satisfied with my data for that phase and add back added sugars. Or not. At any rate, I still have weight to lose. What I'm currently doing is working, (no cravings, no binges) and I remain at a deficit, so I'm satisfied with my current progress and am content to leave that data-gathering for a later time. After all correlation does not equal causation. But from the data gleaned thus far, it's looking like added-sugar foods do have a link with cravings. For me. Proving causation is a trickier beast and will require more information over time. We may never achieve anything greater than an extremely strong correlation. But in practical application, which is real life, I'm not overeating for the first time in 17 years. And calorie deficit is the important result I am aiming to achieve. There is something to be said for results. How I personally achieve them is really irrelevant in the scheme of things. We don't walk around our whole lives in a scientific paper.
How's that?
I'm not finding any studies yet that confirm this phenomenon in large sample sizes, however. I suppose that my experiences haven't happened since there is no study. Oh well. I'll keep at it and keep losing weight without being plagued by the annoyance of the uncontrollable feeling like I need to rabidly binge constantly. Maybe one day it will be validated by a panel of scientists, but soon I'll hit maintenance and continue the next great experiment. In any case, I'll keep living my life, following this current plan, and I'll be healthy and a healthy weight. Wins, scientific validation or no.
Well, it all makes perfect sense to me, and as I'm the one who's satisfaction matters here, that's that. I'm off to do something productive. Like let Jillian Michaels try to kill me. Have a fine remainder of your day, perhaps despite some bleeding you may be experiencing from your eyes as the result of reading the answer you desired.
Yes, Sabine. This is a silly, silly board.
Here’s your argument, I ate foods that contained “added sugars” and they caused cravings. I cut them out and the cravings stopped. Therefore, “added sugars” cause cravings.
LOL
First how does added sucrose differ from naturally occurring sucrose, please be specific. Then how did you pinpoint "added sugar" as the culprit of your cravings? Was "Sugar" the only different compound in foods that made you have cravings and foods that did not cause cravings? If not, how did you determine that none of the different compounds or combination of compounds in the foods that gave you cravings vs those that did not, were not responsible?
Oh good, more nonsense. Well, enjoy that. I've reached my nonsense quota for today. I'll get back to you after 6mo or so when I've received all my data. And achieved my sexypants. Or not. In the meantime you should enjoy the creature comforts afforded you by your kitchen in your troll-cave nestled snuggly in your fantasy world. I'm not feeding you any more.
Do be a dear, though, and send that crack team of scientists and the key to the lab (which you are funding with the massive winnings from all your MFP bingos and your dividends from being an active member of the Shirtless-Brethren) before you go so we can get started on the research ASAP. Because the world is depending on us.
Lol
And what's even funnier is 5 people felt butt hurt by this (I'm having a good guess who).
I also love the maturity of the one person who flags Deirdre's post (purely because they disagree with what she is saying).
Maybe it should be renamed from the 'flag' button to the 'butt hurt' button!
Remember guys is there for a reason - so if you do have to use it, make sure you do it in moderation!
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DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »I love how you ask what the problem is and then quality if with that you will not accept lack of will power as an answer..
sorry to break it to you but the answer is that people binge and over eat due to a lack of will power, period.
Alright, screw it. Let's do this.
I binge on sugary foods. How do I get willpower to not binge on them?
will·pow·er[ wíl pòwr ]
determination and self-discipline: a combination of determination and self-discipline that enables somebody to do something despite the difficulties involved
Hmmm... I guess you just have to practice.
How do I practice determination when I am already determined to not binge but then I do binge? How do I practice self-discipline when I am on my knees crying and telling myself not to eat that cookie as my hand is reaching for it?
A dictionary definition isn't a plan of action. What's the plan of action? Where do I get willpower from?
IMO, it's like any other skill you want to develop. Maybe the missing link is patience...
Ok, so willpower is developed through practice that requires patience. So I practice willpower in order to develop willpower?
And again, my willpower works just great with other foods I'd love to overeat. It just doesn't seem to work with foods I binge on. Why is that?0 -
lol baconslave nice gif0
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Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »LiminalAscendance wrote: »LiminalAscendance wrote: »
They're not all 200 calorie treats. But that doesn't matter. It's the process of How On Earth we are supposed to work these things into our diets that I was curious about.
Like, how to fit 300 treats into a year's worth of consumption? It's pretty easy to do that, considering not all "treats" will actually be that high in calories. e.g. you can eat half a Mars bar for idk 150 calories or less? I forget what it logged as in my example above. Or you can even make your own version of things; I made protein PB cookies and for the whole recipe I think I was able to eat like... 6 cookies and it was less than 200 calories lol. If you wanted to eat 300 200-calorie treats in a year, that's 60,000 calories in 365 days, or about 164 calories per day averaged out. So.... log the food you want, eat it, and then eat other food without going over your intake needs every time. Going to maintenance or above sometimes is fine, and pretty much no one maintains on 1200 calories, so it's not likely to be an issue for most to accomplish this if they'd like to eat 15g of skittles.Lol she wanted her to explain a point ana said when ana never said anything close to that.
Lolollllllooooll
Can you tell me what point i was supposed to explain? because honestly, I don't want to wade through 6 pages to find wherever her random question was, since I Have no idea which question she's referring to now or when it was asked. I don't see what's so hard about restating a specific query when someone asks either. That'd be like if you're in class and you had this exchange:
You: "hey prof, can you explain what we were talking about 30 minutes ago in lecture?"
Prof: "Sure Stacy, could you specify the topic you were wanting clarification on?"
You: ".... No, because we already talked about it 30 minutes ago. Just go back into your lecture notes and figure out which slide would have been discussed 30 minutes ago and then explain it to me."
Prof: "Why not just specify which slide and specify your question?"
You: "Pft, I give up, you're clearly just not going to answer my question because it totally doesn't pertain to you like omg"
I think what she wants is for you to explain the 300 treats thing you made up and said you said. Her debating style has no sense.
I think have this correct, for a yearly thing:
-Count the number of treats we have eliminated
-Figure out the total calories of said treats
-Divide the calories by 365 (or 366 in a leap year)
-eat that number of calories of one of those treats per day
In that way, we can diet for a year and not eliminate anything,
It would be very difficult on McDonald's Shake Day. Also Edwards Frozen Pie Days. And Dairy Queen blizzard day. Heck, it would be very hard on many days.
It would also be a little expensive, buying the 300 (in our example) treats and only eating 164 calories of each. Since we didn't establish whether it was feasible, we must assume that money isn't an issue. (Even at a low estimate of $2 each, that's a good chunk of change on food we won't be eating.)
I'm not sure that backing out 164 calories will leave room for meeting the macros, but if you say it can be done, then I'll have to agree to it.
For me, personally, it will probably be easier to just eliminate some treats and have others in moderation (which will be on special occasions, but is "in moderation" and not to be confused with saving them for special occasions.)
I am very glad to hear that you've been able to eliminate gluten products without gaining weight. Next time someone suggests that eliminating food will lead to some kind of inevitable binge and consequent weight gain, you can tell them how you've been able to do it.
Well played.
It would be well-played if the reason for eliminating of a food item was for the same purpose. Since my elimination of gluten had nothing to do with weight management and does not pose the same psychological constraints as does eliminating pomegranates or chocolate bars or eggs (all things I love, none of which give me very bad physical discomfort), these two are not comparable circumstances.
Based on your response, would you consider the removal of "fast food," ice cream, and candy (for instance) from one's diet a valid method of weight loss, for an individual who does not "love" said foods?
If they do not love/like the food in the first place, they wouldn't be eating them. So this is not something they are eliminating because they aren't eating it in the first place.
I have never had an urge to eat at like... Taco Time or something. Me not eating there =/= me eliminating it from my diet if it's not something that I regularly consumed.
Lookie there, we agree on something. I GAVE UP candy, donuts, pastries etc. etc. etc. about 14 years ago. After a couple of weeks I didn't crave them. Now I actually don't like them. At ALL. So, yeah, it's not really eliminating those at all.
lol
Except you did eliminate them, 14 years ago. So at that point it was elimination. Our tastes change, so if after 14 years you've now consumed donuts, candy, pastries etc and you had to spit them all out because they were gross, then you are correct that you are not currently eliminating it because you do not enjoy it. HOwever, if you consumed all of these today and you enjoyed the taste, then that is eliminating them from your diet.
I haven't, however, given up any foods that I previously and still like. I've swapped out glutinous for non-glutinoous alternatives, but I still enjoy it and haven't given it up.
I eliminated eggs from my diet when I was a teenager because I discovered I was allergic to them. However, I ended up getting sick like... 3-4 years ago? Hospital and all that. So I was eating really soft, easy to eat foods, including eggs. When I ate them, I very much enjoyed them. I ate them for months afterwards without issue. I had to go to get blood tests done for months after my hospital stay, and at one point they did alergy testing well after the 6-week reintroduction of eggs, and I was no longer allergic to them. I have no idea how long I really was allergic to them, but because I still enjoyed them even after I cut them out and then reintroduced them, I had eliminated them. Had I eaten them while sick and thought they tasted gross nad then continued not eating them, this would simply be me not eating something I dislike, as lemur has talked about already.
However, if for example someone cuts out sugar because they think they will lose weight that way and then they eat it again months later, love it still, but force themselves to not eat it, that is an attempt at elimination. If someone decides for some reason to cut out bananas (I don't think anyone will argue about their nutritious benefits) and then months later still loves them but still refuses to eat them, this is elimination. Elimination doesn't just hold for less nutritious foods.
Yea, but you said eliminating doesn't work and now 14 years later, Sabine is still successful...
If she doesn't enjoy those foods, she is not eliminating them. she is simply not eating them. I used to not eat peanut butter, and now I love peanut butter. Does that mean that back then I was eliminating PB? No, it just means that my tastes changed and I grew out of my disdain for peanut butter (although Istill dislike peanuts, but that probably has to do with my painful experience with them well over a decade ago). But if... lets say I used to like walnuts, and then I just stopped eating them for whatever reason (forgot to buy them, was too lazy to find the non-salted kind, etc) but then years later I try them and I'm appalled by the taste every time I try them, then I am not eliminating them if I decide to not eat them. I'm just not eating something that I don't like the taste of.DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »I love how you ask what the problem is and then quality if with that you will not accept lack of will power as an answer..
sorry to break it to you but the answer is that people binge and over eat due to a lack of will power, period.
Alright, screw it. Let's do this.
I binge on sugary foods. How do I get willpower to not binge on them?
will·pow·er[ wíl pòwr ]
determination and self-discipline: a combination of determination and self-discipline that enables somebody to do something despite the difficulties involved
Hmmm... I guess you just have to practice.
How do I practice determination when I am already determined to not binge but then I do binge? How do I practice self-discipline when I am on my knees crying and telling myself not to eat that cookie as my hand is reaching for it?
A dictionary definition isn't a plan of action. What's the plan of action? Where do I get willpower from?
And why don't I have these issues with other foods? Why just sweet foods? How come my willpower, which works wonderfully well when I don't eat all of the delicious delicious steak, seems woefully broken when it comes to the pumpkin pie?
While your "moderation" argument was remarkably flawed, I like where you are going with this one.
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DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »I love how you ask what the problem is and then quality if with that you will not accept lack of will power as an answer..
sorry to break it to you but the answer is that people binge and over eat due to a lack of will power, period.
Alright, screw it. Let's do this.
I binge on sugary foods. How do I get willpower to not binge on them?
will·pow·er[ wíl pòwr ]
determination and self-discipline: a combination of determination and self-discipline that enables somebody to do something despite the difficulties involved
Hmmm... I guess you just have to practice.
How do I practice determination when I am already determined to not binge but then I do binge? How do I practice self-discipline when I am on my knees crying and telling myself not to eat that cookie as my hand is reaching for it?
A dictionary definition isn't a plan of action. What's the plan of action? Where do I get willpower from?
IMO, it's like any other skill you want to develop. Maybe the missing link is patience...
Ok, so willpower is developed through practice that requires patience. So I practice willpower in order to develop willpower?
What other choice do you have?0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »
What other choice do you have?
Eliminate the food altogether. End of binges.
Once I eliminated desserts from my diet, my willpower miraculously recovered from its oddly lopsided weakness.
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dbl post
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DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »Someone says "I'm addicted to sugar" and you immediately jump to fructose and point out how no one has an apple addiction.
That's a ridiculous jump in logic. The much more reasonable jump is that when OP says he or she is addicted to sugar, he or she is strugging with really tasty foods like Oreos or pasta and cream sauce. If the OP's struggle is with sweet foods, then yes, sucrose is involved, but most likely in an environment that includes fat and flour. Most OPs aren't complaining that they are eating tablespoons of sugar out of the bowl.
I agree with your understanding of what such an OP would be saying, but that's why it's illogical and, frankly, just not true to blame it on an "addiction to sugar." That's why people point out that obviously that's not the issue.
Why don't people just say what they mean?
Because they don't know what they are talking about. That's why they are overweight and on MFP looking for help.
Why do you assume that overweight people are ignorant?0 -
DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »
What other choice do you have?
Eliminate the food altogether. End of binges.
Once I eliminated desserts from my diet, my willpower miraculously recovered from its oddly lopsided weakness.
Is moderation willpower as well?0 -
DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »
What other choice do you have?
Eliminate the food altogether. End of binges.
Once I eliminated desserts from my diet, my willpower miraculously recovered.
That's all good if you're only ever at home.
What happens when coworkers bring sweets to the office for the holidays? When you go to someone's house and they offer you dessert? When you go to your kid's/niece's/nephew's/friend's kid's school concert and there's food afterward.
Learning how to control yourself around your triggers is important. If you have a hard time with it, I can understand not buying it and bringing it into the house. But, real life happens and you can't isolate yourself from every scenario where you'll be exposed to your trigger foods.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »Someone says "I'm addicted to sugar" and you immediately jump to fructose and point out how no one has an apple addiction.
That's a ridiculous jump in logic. The much more reasonable jump is that when OP says he or she is addicted to sugar, he or she is strugging with really tasty foods like Oreos or pasta and cream sauce. If the OP's struggle is with sweet foods, then yes, sucrose is involved, but most likely in an environment that includes fat and flour. Most OPs aren't complaining that they are eating tablespoons of sugar out of the bowl.
I agree with your understanding of what such an OP would be saying, but that's why it's illogical and, frankly, just not true to blame it on an "addiction to sugar." That's why people point out that obviously that's not the issue.
Why don't people just say what they mean?
Because they don't know what they are talking about. That's why they are overweight and on MFP looking for help.
Why do you assume that overweight people are ignorant?
No one assumes they are ignorant, but if you have never researched nutrition, most likely you are listening to the media hype and what not. Since most of that is quackery, of course people will come here "ignorant". They don't know they are ignorant because they know nothing more than what they see on TV and in magazines. They have to start learning somehow.
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DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »I love how you ask what the problem is and then quality if with that you will not accept lack of will power as an answer..
sorry to break it to you but the answer is that people binge and over eat due to a lack of will power, period.
Alright, screw it. Let's do this.
I binge on sugary foods. How do I get willpower to not binge on them?
will·pow·er[ wíl pòwr ]
determination and self-discipline: a combination of determination and self-discipline that enables somebody to do something despite the difficulties involved
Hmmm... I guess you just have to practice.
How do I practice determination when I am already determined to not binge but then I do binge? How do I practice self-discipline when I am on my knees crying and telling myself not to eat that cookie as my hand is reaching for it?
A dictionary definition isn't a plan of action. What's the plan of action? Where do I get willpower from?
IMO, it's like any other skill you want to develop. Maybe the missing link is patience...
Well, you must have figured it out, all it takes is willpower! All the obesity researchers who have found over and over that relying on willpower alone simply does not work for most people are just completely clueless. Next time I work with a binge eating client I'll be sure to tell them to just not binge.
Sorry to not contribute wisely to this conversation, but seriously you are wrong on this. Willpower of course plays a role and can be strengthened, but there is so much more to the picture of weight loss and binge eating.
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DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »
What other choice do you have?
Eliminate the food altogether. End of binges.
Once I eliminated desserts from my diet, my willpower miraculously recovered from its oddly lopsided weakness.
Hopefully you can keep that up for the rest of your life...0 -
Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »
I thought her reference to fructose made perfect sense. It has everything to do with every thread on limiting added sugars.DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »You do realize as I and Tigers pointed out sucrose is found in fruits? There is no excessive fixation on fructose. I do agree the issue is hyperpalatable foods, but as you already saw from one astute poster they laid blame totally on added sugars as what caused their binges
The OP has no point, as sugar has many uses then just a "quick energy fix", and many "sugar" laden foods are highly nutritious and packed with micros.
Yes, I do realize that you and Tigers have pointed out that sucrose is found in fruit.
I have no idea why the two of you are fixated on that point, but clearly you need closure, so here it is -- I saw that you wrote that and I believe you.
You are absolutely right -- many people are blaming added sugars in their food as what causes their binges.
Because in their perception, sugar does cause their binges. They eat a sweet food and before you know it, they are eating the entire house. They don't feel this way about lettuce, so it must be the sugar!
So what does cause their binges? Well who the hell knows -- we never get to the point of discussing that because we get caught up immediately in the fructose loop. heh heh fruit loops I made a joke right there!
The end result is that we get no where. The OP doesn't get help and the issue of binging isn't discussed in any complex or intelligent way.
The next time someone says they are addicted to sugar, just please don't start the tired old fructose subthread.
And don't just blame people for being lazy or weak-willed -- that's simplistic obstructionism. Human beings have a powerful built-in response to food -- it's called instinct! -- and for many people, that response is abnormal and needs some tweeking. For some people, the tweeking is as simple as understanding CICO, and for others, the tweeking needs to be medical intervention.
They may not be lazy or weak willed but certainly you could call them ignorant. If someone says they are addicted to sugar, they should know what sugar actually is, right? Again you're bringing up fructose when that never has anything to do with any of the "sugar addict" threads, why?
How? Point to one thread where anyone brought up fructose as a counter to someone claiming sugar addiction. They don't exist.0 -
DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »
What other choice do you have?
Eliminate the food altogether. End of binges.
Once I eliminated desserts from my diet, my willpower miraculously recovered from its oddly lopsided weakness.
Doesn't work for everyone. Someone in a challenge I've been in has been struggling with binging and was terribly derailed by a part of the challenge that focused on giving up foods. It resulted in her getting back into a restrict and binge cycle.
I don't think there's a one-size-fits-all answer to binging, but at heart it seems to be a psychological issue.
I also don't think binging is as common as you seem to assume. Not that it's uncommon, but probably most overweight people didn't get overweight from binging. It's confused, at bit, because people use the term "binge" quite often to refer to mere overeating.
If I have delicious Christmas cookies in my office break room (and in fact I do), and tell myself I can have just one (as I did yesterday) and then decide it was so delicious that I break down and have another, which doesn't fit in my calories, that's not addiction (for the record, I didn't). It's that the cookies taste good.
Similarly, if I'm at work late and pissed about it and walk by the peanut M&Ms and say "to heck with it" and grab a handful (which I used to do all the time, before I started focusing on my weight), and then go back to get more throughout the evening (same), I may have a perception that I can't stop myself, it's an irresistible impulse, but it's not really and, again, nothing remotely like addiction.
These are the kinds of things the word "addiction" is about as often as actual binging, IMO.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »Someone says "I'm addicted to sugar" and you immediately jump to fructose and point out how no one has an apple addiction.
That's a ridiculous jump in logic. The much more reasonable jump is that when OP says he or she is addicted to sugar, he or she is strugging with really tasty foods like Oreos or pasta and cream sauce. If the OP's struggle is with sweet foods, then yes, sucrose is involved, but most likely in an environment that includes fat and flour. Most OPs aren't complaining that they are eating tablespoons of sugar out of the bowl.
I agree with your understanding of what such an OP would be saying, but that's why it's illogical and, frankly, just not true to blame it on an "addiction to sugar." That's why people point out that obviously that's not the issue.
Why don't people just say what they mean?
Because they don't know what they are talking about. That's why they are overweight and on MFP looking for help.
Why do you assume that overweight people are ignorant?
No one assumes they are ignorant, but if you have never researched nutrition, most likely you are listening to the media hype and what not. Since most of that is quackery, of course people will come here "ignorant". They don't know they are ignorant because they know nothing more than what they see on TV and in magazines. They have to start learning somehow.
^^This-education
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girlviernes wrote: »DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »I love how you ask what the problem is and then quality if with that you will not accept lack of will power as an answer..
sorry to break it to you but the answer is that people binge and over eat due to a lack of will power, period.
Alright, screw it. Let's do this.
I binge on sugary foods. How do I get willpower to not binge on them?
will·pow·er[ wíl pòwr ]
determination and self-discipline: a combination of determination and self-discipline that enables somebody to do something despite the difficulties involved
Hmmm... I guess you just have to practice.
How do I practice determination when I am already determined to not binge but then I do binge? How do I practice self-discipline when I am on my knees crying and telling myself not to eat that cookie as my hand is reaching for it?
A dictionary definition isn't a plan of action. What's the plan of action? Where do I get willpower from?
IMO, it's like any other skill you want to develop. Maybe the missing link is patience...
Well, you must have figured it out, all it takes is willpower! All the obesity researchers who have found over and over that relying on willpower alone simply does not work for most people are just completely clueless. Next time I work with a binge eating client I'll be sure to tell them to just not binge.
Sorry to not contribute wisely to this conversation, but seriously you are wrong on this. Willpower of course plays a role and can be strengthened, but there is so much more to the picture of weight loss and binge eating.
Do not think I have it all figured out and by no means do I think willpower is the only factor. Sorry if that offended you.
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lemurcat12 wrote: »DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »Someone says "I'm addicted to sugar" and you immediately jump to fructose and point out how no one has an apple addiction.
That's a ridiculous jump in logic. The much more reasonable jump is that when OP says he or she is addicted to sugar, he or she is strugging with really tasty foods like Oreos or pasta and cream sauce. If the OP's struggle is with sweet foods, then yes, sucrose is involved, but most likely in an environment that includes fat and flour. Most OPs aren't complaining that they are eating tablespoons of sugar out of the bowl.
I agree with your understanding of what such an OP would be saying, but that's why it's illogical and, frankly, just not true to blame it on an "addiction to sugar." That's why people point out that obviously that's not the issue.
Why don't people just say what they mean?
Because they don't know what they are talking about. That's why they are overweight and on MFP looking for help.
Why do you assume that overweight people are ignorant?
No one assumes they are ignorant, but if you have never researched nutrition, most likely you are listening to the media hype and what not. Since most of that is quackery, of course people will come here "ignorant". They don't know they are ignorant because they know nothing more than what they see on TV and in magazines. They have to start learning somehow.
I'm talking about Deirdre's specific claim that linked them being overweight to not knowing what they are talking about.
I don't think most people are overweight because they lack knowledge. (They might also lack knowledge, of course, but the "addicted to sugar" thing is an irritating failure of common sense.)0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »Someone says "I'm addicted to sugar" and you immediately jump to fructose and point out how no one has an apple addiction.
That's a ridiculous jump in logic. The much more reasonable jump is that when OP says he or she is addicted to sugar, he or she is strugging with really tasty foods like Oreos or pasta and cream sauce. If the OP's struggle is with sweet foods, then yes, sucrose is involved, but most likely in an environment that includes fat and flour. Most OPs aren't complaining that they are eating tablespoons of sugar out of the bowl.
I agree with your understanding of what such an OP would be saying, but that's why it's illogical and, frankly, just not true to blame it on an "addiction to sugar." That's why people point out that obviously that's not the issue.
Why don't people just say what they mean?
Because they don't know what they are talking about. That's why they are overweight and on MFP looking for help.
Why do you assume that overweight people are ignorant?
No one assumes they are ignorant, but if you have never researched nutrition, most likely you are listening to the media hype and what not. Since most of that is quackery, of course people will come here "ignorant". They don't know they are ignorant because they know nothing more than what they see on TV and in magazines. They have to start learning somehow.
And that's just it. They need to learn. Yet when someone corrects them, that's apparently a horrible thing according to this thread. Rather than learn about food, just stop eating it, because why bother learn about something when you can just stay ignorant?0 -
DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »I love how you ask what the problem is and then quality if with that you will not accept lack of will power as an answer..
sorry to break it to you but the answer is that people binge and over eat due to a lack of will power, period.
Alright, screw it. Let's do this.
I binge on sugary foods. How do I get willpower to not binge on them?
will·pow·er[ wíl pòwr ]
determination and self-discipline: a combination of determination and self-discipline that enables somebody to do something despite the difficulties involved
Hmmm... I guess you just have to practice.
How do I practice determination when I am already determined to not binge but then I do binge? How do I practice self-discipline when I am on my knees crying and telling myself not to eat that cookie as my hand is reaching for it?
A dictionary definition isn't a plan of action. What's the plan of action? Where do I get willpower from?
IMO, it's like any other skill you want to develop. Maybe the missing link is patience...
I agree with you about determination and practice. Patience though is passive. What she needs is actionable strategies. You need to figure out what personally trips you up and how to circumvent that.
Some people can set themselves limits of macros and calories and do great. Others need a crutch. And that's where things like restriction of a food or low-carbing is useful. It's forced portion control, until they eliminate unhealthy food relationships and teach themselves to moderate. Some people just can't do it by themselves. It's not a weakness unless you let it ride and do nothing. If you pull yourself up and employ a strategy that works for you, and work the h*ll out of it, it's strength and smarts.
It isn't easy for some. But it's doable.0 -
DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »
What other choice do you have?
Eliminate the food altogether. End of binges.
Once I eliminated desserts from my diet, my willpower miraculously recovered from its oddly lopsided weakness.
so you have the will power to eliminate an entire food group but not the will power to moderate that same food group? that sounds legit...0
This discussion has been closed.
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