Sugar - possibly the easiest thing to cut back on for weight loss!
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Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »For me the argument revolves around the assertion that one "must" eat junk food and sweets or they are somehow denying themselves something fundamental and necessary. And the assertion that there's ONE RIGHT WAY to lose weight: calorie counting (with or without macro counting) while eating whatever food types you want.
Well both of those positions are demonstrably wrong. We have existence proofs that many people maintain and/or lose without explicit calorie counting.
And we have existence proofs that many people maintain and/or lose without eating "junk food and sweets" - so either it's ok to deny oneself, or that's not denying oneself - but you only get to pick one, you can't have both.
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DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »Here's the cliff notes:
1. Carbs and fat do all kinds of good things, so if you want to lose weight, cutting sugar, which only does one or two things, is the best place to start cutting calories!
2. No it isn't.
3. Yes it is no it isn't (up to page six).
4. Page seven -- I'm calling bs on eating what you want in moderation. Here's a moderate menu of junk food that is super high in calories.
7. That's not moderation because it doesn't meet your numbers.
10. Well here's a menu of junk food that meets my calories and my macros. It's so little food that I would be hungry all the time.
11. That's still not moderation.
12. Yes it is.
13. No it isn't.
14. People who struggle with controlling their food intake just lack willpower.
15. Where do we get willpower from
16. From the dictionary! (dictionary definition of will power provided)
17. Willpower willpower willpower for a couple of pages, including studies of willpower that show it's a depletable source, not a constant.
18. Then about seven pages dedicated to whether or not "telling people to eat what they want, even in moderation, is terrible advice" means "telling people to eat in moderation is terrible advice."
19. And here we are.
I probably missed some subthreads -- feel free to add any salient points I missed!
20. People spend five pages complain that others are being intentionally obtuse and/or pedantic, and then spend five pages being all intentionally obtuse and pedantic themselves.
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Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »Actually you are all correct - my statement was not well thought out and I am going to delete it until I work out what I do mean. I couldn't sleep last night and spent half the night reading this enormous thread and I am sleep deprived and hungry so I'm off to have lunch - tuna and salad. I consider that healthy food - donuts, dr pepper, those horrible foods that sit in the local deli etc are junk to me.
Now TheVirgoddess - don't get irritated, life is too short for that.
There are a heap of things I consider junk food but honestly how does that effect you in any way. I have eaten this way for most of my life and aren't about to change now. My body lets me know if it is junk as I will lack energy, have a headache, foggy mind, bloated and in general wish to goodness I had never eaten it in the first place because it is JUNK!! 
Yeah, sure. donuts are "junk," but they are also delicious, help me meet my macro goals, and make me pscyhologically pleased. I go through a box of 6 donuts in probably 1-2 months, and then can go months without buying donuts again. That's the nice thing about moderation for me, it's helped me stop binging and just eat these foods in non-ridiculous amounts and only when I actually feel like eating them. I practice moderation wtih all foods (healthy or not healthy).
Donuts help you meet your macro goals. heh.
My husband and I do "Donut Monday," meaning every Monday, we go have a donut. Being a vegetarian, I am sometimes low on fat and that donut bumps it right up. Ice cream also works well for this.
So, I think we're at a place where the only problem with some of these statements are the problems posters are creating.
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Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »Actually you are all correct - my statement was not well thought out and I am going to delete it until I work out what I do mean. I couldn't sleep last night and spent half the night reading this enormous thread and I am sleep deprived and hungry so I'm off to have lunch - tuna and salad. I consider that healthy food - donuts, dr pepper, those horrible foods that sit in the local deli etc are junk to me.
Now TheVirgoddess - don't get irritated, life is too short for that. There are a heap of things I consider junk food but honestly how does that effect you in any way. I have eaten this way for most of my life and aren't about to change now. My body lets me know if it is junk as I will lack energy, have a headache, foggy mind, bloated and in general wish to goodness I had never eaten it in the first place because it is JUNK!!
Yeah, sure. donuts are "junk," but they are also delicious, help me meet my macro goals, and make me pscyhologically pleased. I go through a box of 6 donuts in probably 1-2 months, and then can go months without buying donuts again. That's the nice thing about moderation for me, it's helped me stop binging and just eat these foods in non-ridiculous amounts and only when I actually feel like eating them. I practice moderation wtih all foods (healthy or not healthy).
Donuts help you meet your macro goals. heh.
Yep, they do. If I need to consume another 60g of carbs and say 10g of fat, a donut can help me reach at least 20g of carbs.0 -
tennisdude2004 wrote: »Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »Actually you are all correct - my statement was not well thought out and I am going to delete it until I work out what I do mean. I couldn't sleep last night and spent half the night reading this enormous thread and I am sleep deprived and hungry so I'm off to have lunch - tuna and salad. I consider that healthy food - donuts, dr pepper, those horrible foods that sit in the local deli etc are junk to me.
Now TheVirgoddess - don't get irritated, life is too short for that. There are a heap of things I consider junk food but honestly how does that effect you in any way. I have eaten this way for most of my life and aren't about to change now. My body lets me know if it is junk as I will lack energy, have a headache, foggy mind, bloated and in general wish to goodness I had never eaten it in the first place because it is JUNK!!
Yeah, sure. donuts are "junk," but they are also delicious, help me meet my macro goals, and make me pscyhologically pleased. I go through a box of 6 donuts in probably 1-2 months, and then can go months without buying donuts again. That's the nice thing about moderation for me, it's helped me stop binging and just eat these foods in non-ridiculous amounts and only when I actually feel like eating them. I practice moderation wtih all foods (healthy or not healthy).
Donuts help you meet your macro goals. heh.
Actually donuts will help you meet your macros goal. They're mainly carbs so they will count against your carb macros.
That's why just focusing on calories and macro's for a healthy diet is so flawed!
Not really. I focus on calories and macros (I really only focus on protein and having a good macro ratio for breakfast and lunch, though), and this enables me to eat pretty much anything. If I eat a late dinner and I see that I have to fill out 100g of carbs, I'm probably going to opt for a donut because I'd rather calorically dense intake that late at night so as to minimize stomach upset.
Donuts are great for carb macro needs. THey are not going to help you meet your protein needs, though. So clearly, one will need to eat other things like meat or fish or poultry. And fat intake? Well I can eat fatty meat or I can add butter or peanut butter. And do I want to only eat donuts all day? No, because I enjoy fruits and vegetables as well.
Moderation means one can eat any food, and that generally doesn't result in only eating donuts.0 -
DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »Here's the cliff notes:
1. Carbs and fat do all kinds of good things, so if you want to lose weight, cutting sugar, which only does one or two things, is the best place to start cutting calories!
2. No it isn't.
3. Yes it is not it isn't up to page six.
4. Page seven -- I'm calling bs on eating what you want in moderation. Here's a moderate menu of junk food that is super high in calories.
7. That's not moderation because it doesn't meet your numbers.
10. Well here's a menu of junk food that meets my calories and my macros. It's so little food that I would be hungry all the time.
11. That's still not moderation.
12. Yes it is.
13. No it isn't.
14. Fat people just lack willpower.
15. Where do we get willpower from
16. From the dictionary! (dictionary definition of will power provided)
17. Willpower willpower willpower for a couple of pages, including studies of willpower that show it's a depletable source, not a constant.
18. Then about seven pages dedicated to whether or not "telling people to eat what they want, even in moderation, is terrible advice" means "telling people to eat in moderation is terrible advice."
19. And here we are.
I probably missed some subthreads -- feel free to add any salient points I missed!
Deirdre, I enjoyed reading this post entirely too much! We shall make thee the official MFP thread Summarizer :bigsmile:
Except her summary was not actually accurate. I do not recall anyone stating for instance that fat people lack willpower. Nor do I remember definitions for willpower - we have defined moderation and elimination though.
Basically, her summary is extremely biased to her own views.0 -
I buy all the GF alternatives. the only time I make my own is if I am wanting to make a protein version of it, in which case it can be made GF or with gluten if your diet allows. Or sometimes I'll make something just because I enjoy baking.Must admit that one side bowled me as well. Once you eliminate gluten properly, it is a whole new ball game as a lot of food become out of bounds.
So? I haven't eliminated or cut back on any one specific thing for weight loss purposes, and I eat the GF alternatives. donuts, cakes, brownies, soy sauce, pasta, pizza, yuuuuum.
I was side bowled, too. Are the GF items as readily available as non-GF stuff? Like on the store shelves, at parties, two inches from your face, on your desk at work, in restaurants etc etc. Or do you have to make a lot of them yourself? For me I've found that just making food myself is a great way to cut back on the calories. The recipe calls for a cup of honey and I think, hmm, this would still be great with a quarter cup. Tada! Calories cut. Time spent cooking is also time I wouldn't be stuffing my face, and I've found a tremendous amount of satisfaction in many a case just cooking and enjoying the aromas, that I don't necessarily need as many calories of the food when all is said and done. If I knew eating snacks on people's desks at work would instantly give me projectile vomitting, that would easily save me an average of at least 500 cals per week
Less or slower access to food, whether naturally or artificially created will generally help limit calorie intake
For me, access to food doesn't change how I eat. Knowing and setting my goals is what changes how much food I eat. I divide my calories into 3 (or 4) meals, log before I eat, and I don't snack between meals.
I will at times change a recipe, but now that I am aware of my intake I don't need to rely on tricks to try and lower an item's calories. Although I do often use less sugar simply because I find that lots of recipes can taste too sweet (yes, I love sweet food still), so I'll use the lower amount and adjust up next time if needed. But I don't do this for caloric purposes anymore. I used to be so concerned with e.g. cutting out the butter in a recipe and using something else instead.
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ana3067 wrote:For me, access to food doesn't change how I eat. Knowing and setting my goals is what changes how much food I eat. I divide my calories into 3 (or 4) meals, log before I eat, and I don't snack between meals.
Other than at the stores, would you say your access to these items is the same as most other people's? Consider the locations I mentioned such as treats brought in at work, or the full menu available at various restaurants. You may not be able to properly evaluate the full effect of access if yours is greatly limited compared to others. I've stated my conclusion in advance but I'm still just asking. I'm not personally familiar with any GF individuals so I may be missing some details on daily nutrition0 -
great. So could lots of other things. Not a necessity that it be a pastry. That's a choice. Yay choice.Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »Actually you are all correct - my statement was not well thought out and I am going to delete it until I work out what I do mean. I couldn't sleep last night and spent half the night reading this enormous thread and I am sleep deprived and hungry so I'm off to have lunch - tuna and salad. I consider that healthy food - donuts, dr pepper, those horrible foods that sit in the local deli etc are junk to me.
Now TheVirgoddess - don't get irritated, life is too short for that. There are a heap of things I consider junk food but honestly how does that effect you in any way. I have eaten this way for most of my life and aren't about to change now. My body lets me know if it is junk as I will lack energy, have a headache, foggy mind, bloated and in general wish to goodness I had never eaten it in the first place because it is JUNK!!
Yeah, sure. donuts are "junk," but they are also delicious, help me meet my macro goals, and make me pscyhologically pleased. I go through a box of 6 donuts in probably 1-2 months, and then can go months without buying donuts again. That's the nice thing about moderation for me, it's helped me stop binging and just eat these foods in non-ridiculous amounts and only when I actually feel like eating them. I practice moderation wtih all foods (healthy or not healthy).
Donuts help you meet your macro goals. heh.
Yep, they do. If I need to consume another 60g of carbs and say 10g of fat, a donut can help me reach at least 20g of carbs.
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DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »Here's the cliff notes:
1. Carbs and fat do all kinds of good things, so if you want to lose weight, cutting sugar, which only does one or two things, is the best place to start cutting calories!
2. No it isn't.
3. Yes it is no it isn't (up to page six).
4. Page seven -- I'm calling bs on eating what you want in moderation. Here's a moderate menu of junk food that is super high in calories.
7. That's not moderation because it doesn't meet your numbers.
10. Well here's a menu of junk food that meets my calories and my macros. It's so little food that I would be hungry all the time.
11. That's still not moderation.
12. Yes it is.
13. No it isn't.
14. People who struggle with controlling their food intake just lack willpower.
15. Where do we get willpower from
16. From the dictionary! (dictionary definition of will power provided)
17. Willpower willpower willpower for a couple of pages, including studies of willpower that show it's a depletable source, not a constant.
18. Then about seven pages dedicated to whether or not "telling people to eat what they want, even in moderation, is terrible advice" means "telling people to eat in moderation is terrible advice."
19. And here we are.
I probably missed some subthreads -- feel free to add any salient points I missed!
20. People spend five pages complain that others are being intentionally obtuse and/or pedantic, and then spend five pages being all intentionally obtuse and pedantic themselves.
+1000
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ana3067 wrote:For me, access to food doesn't change how I eat. Knowing and setting my goals is what changes how much food I eat. I divide my calories into 3 (or 4) meals, log before I eat, and I don't snack between meals.
Other than at the stores, would you say your access to these items is the same as most other people's? Consider the locations I mentioned such as treats brought in at work, or the full menu available at various restaurants. You may not be able to properly evaluate the full effect of access if yours is greatly limited compared to others. I've stated my conclusion in advance but I'm still just asking. I'm not personally familiar with any GF individuals so I may be missing some details on daily nutrition
my access to food isn't really different from others. If I go to a restaurant, then I cannot choose from as many options, but I can still wind up choosing something high calorie (I ate a 700+ calorie salad like 2 weeks ago at a restaurant). I work in retail once a week (still a student), but if people do bring in food to work and it's something I can eat, I generally won't eat it because I have my own food in the back or because I can't weigh it and don't want to bother estimating. We have a lot of food in our house, we have like 6 chocolate bars in the kitchen. I have a snickers bar still in my room that I keep forgetting about. If I go grocery shopping there are a lot of options that I can choose from that are GF.
But yeah, access to food hasn't changed how I eat. When I did try eating gluten again earlier this year (didn't work, super bad symptoms after 2 months of it) the only difference was that I could choose between more fast food places. So now instead of say being able to choose between 10 places on campus, I might only be able to choose between 5. But I'm not limited to like, salad only everywhere.0 -
When will it be time to start sharing progress pictures?
I have sort of progress pics up on my page now, and a new one I just uploaded. But I never took any before pics at 188lbs because... I was 188lbs and I hated my body lol. Actually I do have some pics on my old cell phone, if I can find them I will have to upload and compare to my more recent pics0 -
DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »Here's the cliff notes:
1. Carbs and fat do all kinds of good things, so if you want to lose weight, cutting sugar, which only does one or two things, is the best place to start cutting calories!
2. No it isn't.
3. Yes it is no it isn't (up to page six).
4. Page seven -- I'm calling bs on eating what you want in moderation. Here's a moderate menu of junk food that is super high in calories.
7. That's not moderation because it doesn't meet your numbers.
10. Well here's a menu of junk food that meets my calories and my macros. It's so little food that I would be hungry all the time.
11. That's still not moderation.
12. Yes it is.
13. No it isn't.
14. People who struggle with controlling their food intake just lack willpower.
15. Where do we get willpower from
16. From the dictionary! (dictionary definition of will power provided)
17. Willpower willpower willpower for a couple of pages, including studies of willpower that show it's a depletable source, not a constant.
18. Then about seven pages dedicated to whether or not "telling people to eat what they want, even in moderation, is terrible advice" means "telling people to eat in moderation is terrible advice."
19. And here we are.
I probably missed some subthreads -- feel free to add any salient points I missed!
20. People spend five pages complain that others are being intentionally obtuse and/or pedantic, and then spend five pages being all intentionally obtuse and pedantic themselves.
+1000
+1 more. So much intentionally obtuse posting.0 -
ana3067 wrote:For me, access to food doesn't change how I eat. Knowing and setting my goals is what changes how much food I eat. I divide my calories into 3 (or 4) meals, log before I eat, and I don't snack between meals.
Other than at the stores, would you say your access to these items is the same as most other people's? Consider the locations I mentioned such as treats brought in at work, or the full menu available at various restaurants. You may not be able to properly evaluate the full effect of access if yours is greatly limited compared to others. I've stated my conclusion in advance but I'm still just asking. I'm not personally familiar with any GF individuals so I may be missing some details on daily nutrition
my access to food isn't really different from others. If I go to a restaurant, then I cannot choose from as many options, but I can still wind up choosing something high calorie (I ate a 700+ calorie salad like 2 weeks ago at a restaurant). I work in retail once a week (still a student), but if people do bring in food to work and it's something I can eat, I generally won't eat it because I have my own food in the back or because I can't weigh it and don't want to bother estimating. We have a lot of food in our house, we have like 6 chocolate bars in the kitchen. I have a snickers bar still in my room that I keep forgetting about. If I go grocery shopping there are a lot of options that I can choose from that are GF.
But yeah, access to food hasn't changed how I eat. When I did try eating gluten again earlier this year (didn't work, super bad symptoms after 2 months of it) the only difference was that I could choose between more fast food places. So now instead of say being able to choose between 10 places on campus, I might only be able to choose between 5. But I'm not limited to like, salad only everywhere.
I'd conclude that you don't have access to as wide a range of food choices at work or in restaurants, but I could see how there's plenty at home. Unless chocolate bars aren't really your weakness lol. I have a massive jar of peanut butter at home and I'm entirely "meh" about it. You do have some help with your fast food restaurants being cut down by 50% and possibly the choices off the menu in the ones you can dine in. By help I mean 50% less places where you either work in your craving, or more commonly you're driving by or walking by the restaurant and think, ooh I'm getting that! Unless of course your point is that you never do this, in which case, great job girl
Though I do remember a choice that you've made to prepare your own separate food in the house or at least prepare the food everyone eats, which is a laudable but possibly somewhat uncomfortable choice that not everyone would make0 -
When will it be time to start sharing progress pictures?
I will!
Starting weight: 232.3
Yesterday (day 235). Weight: 168.8
Total pounds lost 63.5 (so far). Yay!0 -
ana3067 wrote:For me, access to food doesn't change how I eat. Knowing and setting my goals is what changes how much food I eat. I divide my calories into 3 (or 4) meals, log before I eat, and I don't snack between meals.
Other than at the stores, would you say your access to these items is the same as most other people's? Consider the locations I mentioned such as treats brought in at work, or the full menu available at various restaurants. You may not be able to properly evaluate the full effect of access if yours is greatly limited compared to others. I've stated my conclusion in advance but I'm still just asking. I'm not personally familiar with any GF individuals so I may be missing some details on daily nutrition
my access to food isn't really different from others. If I go to a restaurant, then I cannot choose from as many options, but I can still wind up choosing something high calorie (I ate a 700+ calorie salad like 2 weeks ago at a restaurant). I work in retail once a week (still a student), but if people do bring in food to work and it's something I can eat, I generally won't eat it because I have my own food in the back or because I can't weigh it and don't want to bother estimating. We have a lot of food in our house, we have like 6 chocolate bars in the kitchen. I have a snickers bar still in my room that I keep forgetting about. If I go grocery shopping there are a lot of options that I can choose from that are GF.
But yeah, access to food hasn't changed how I eat. When I did try eating gluten again earlier this year (didn't work, super bad symptoms after 2 months of it) the only difference was that I could choose between more fast food places. So now instead of say being able to choose between 10 places on campus, I might only be able to choose between 5. But I'm not limited to like, salad only everywhere.
I'd conclude that you don't have access to as wide a range of food choices at work or in restaurants, but I could see how there's plenty at home. Unless chocolate bars aren't really your weakness lol. I have a massive jar of peanut butter at home and I'm entirely "meh" about it. You do have some help with your fast food restaurants being cut down by 50% and possibly the choices off the menu in the ones you can dine in. By help I mean 50% less places where you either work in your craving, or more commonly you're driving by or walking by the restaurant and think, ooh I'm getting that! Unless of course your point is that you never do this, in which case, great job girl
Though I do remember a choice that you've made to prepare your own separate food in the house or at least prepare the food everyone eats, which is a laudable but possibly somewhat uncomfortable choice that not everyone would make
I used to eat like 4 chocolate bars in a sitting, so at one point they were a weakness. But I eat everything in moderation now. I'd actually say I'm more likely to overdo it on eggs now.
I generally do not randomly walk to a store and decide to eat something. I plan it ahead of time, but if it happens spontaneously it's not a big deal and I don't care if I go over my calories in that case. But I've had times where I've gone into a grocery store, bought a few bags of cookies, and had them on me for a few hours without eating them.
But access to food still does not change my eating habits. The only way it changes my eating habits are that it changes WHAT I eat, not how much I eat. E.g. if we have almost nothing at home I am likely going to use protein powder for a few meals to meet protein needs. Or if we don't have pasta I might do rice instead. Etc. But if I'm in a situation where there is a lot of food I don't just automatically eat like 2000 calories just because. I know my goals and I eat to meet my goals whenever possible.0
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