Hamstring Vs Quad strength

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  • tomatoey
    tomatoey Posts: 5,459 Member
    edited December 2014
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    Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »
    mustgetmuscles1 wrote: »
    Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »
    mustgetmuscles1 wrote: »
    Interesting topic. I have never heard of a percentage but I know a lot of people have an imbalance. In for info.

    If you're interested, search for primary research related to non-contact ACL injuries and you should find a lot of information on this topic. :smile:

    Dang it I was hoping someone else would do all the searching and just spoon feed me the info. :smile:

    Thanks man I will check it out.

    Ha ha, there's a lot of info out there, much to digest. It really boils down to poor hamstring and gluteal strength causes a ton of problems for people including things like internal hip rotation, foot over-pronation, hyper-lordosis. Those issues lead to a host of other problems.

    QFT. Including anterior knee pain, which I've been reading about tonight.

    You also need a reasonably strong vastus medialis obliquus - the large quadricep muscle in the inside/front of the thigh - to prevent knee pain, which can occur when the VMO is weak (in conjunction with weak glutes & hams, poor foot biomechanics [pronation], and a too-tight IT band).
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
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    This site mentions 56-80% range.
    Same 2 lifts for correction. Though Brad's study was interesting on complete activation.

    http://www.exrx.net/Kinesiology/Weaknesses.html#anchor13175135

    Also wanted bumped to find again in case more info.
  • mustgetmuscles1
    mustgetmuscles1 Posts: 3,346 Member
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    heybales wrote: »
    This site mentions 56-80% range.
    Same 2 lifts for correction. Though Brad's study was interesting on complete activation.

    http://www.exrx.net/Kinesiology/Weaknesses.html#anchor13175135

    Also wanted bumped to find again in case more info.

    Thanks for that link. Good info.
  • dbmata
    dbmata Posts: 12,951 Member
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    god, exrx is just freaking magical.
  • ForecasterJason
    ForecasterJason Posts: 2,577 Member
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    This isn't directly related to the topic, but I just came the realization that I can bicep curl more weight with a dumbbell than I can hamstring curl on my weight machine! What makes this even more weird is that my upper body is tiny in comparison to my lower body. :o
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
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    That's sad.

    You best get on that my friend.
  • dbmata
    dbmata Posts: 12,951 Member
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    ForecasterJason wrote: »
    This isn't directly related to the topic, but I just came the realization that I can bicep curl more weight with a dumbbell than I can hamstring curl on my weight machine! What makes this even more weird is that my upper body is tiny in comparison to my lower body. :o
    .... wut?

    Sounds like it's time to do some hardcore PC work.
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
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    What kind of weight machine doing leg curls on. They may have some pulley's to increase weight.

    Please don't say that only 1 arm can do those heavy curls.

    I'm picturing something very funny right now, and very off balanced.
  • dbmata
    dbmata Posts: 12,951 Member
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    like a one armed kipping pull up.
  • ForecasterJason
    ForecasterJason Posts: 2,577 Member
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    I'm using a Marcy machine from Impex, and I do the leg curls on the same bar that's used for the leg extension. Yes, there is a pulley system and an additional weight on top of the main stack, so the actual weight I'm lifting could be a bit higher.

    However, I just tried to do a leg curl with a heavier weight than what I've been using (20 lbs, which again I don't know if this is really accurate). I also tried to push that bar with my arms (not a true bicep curl). And yes, I found it easier to lift the 20 lbs with my arms than my legs.
  • dbmata
    dbmata Posts: 12,951 Member
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    Are you recovering from an injury?
  • ForecasterJason
    ForecasterJason Posts: 2,577 Member
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    No. Although I have regularly done small bouts of cardio (and even some occasional sprints), my lifestyle has been quite sedentary for a few years. My guess is this has greatly contributed to my weak glutes/hamstrings.
  • dbmata
    dbmata Posts: 12,951 Member
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    I'd say you probably just aren't activating what you have.

    I personally don't like the leg extension or ham curl machine for newbies, because as a newbie it always destroyed my legs and cause knee pain.

    Get a 60# db and do some goblet squats as well as some plie stance goblets and start getting that posterior chain activating.
  • Sam_I_Am77
    Sam_I_Am77 Posts: 2,093 Member
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    Here's the thing, squats don't really activate the hamstrings as well everybody assumes; it's roughly 25% based on EMG data. Additionally, the Biceps Femoris is the most activated and the other two hamstring muscles are typically not really activated in the squat anyway. You will want to use other methods to activate your hamstrings if they are indeed weak.
  • dbmata
    dbmata Posts: 12,951 Member
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    Based on my own experience, I've had the most glute and hamstring activation from:
    - Plie Squats
    - Sumo deadlifts
    - Hip thrusters
    - GHR

    Are those optimal? You tell me. It doesn't even sound to me like a matter a weak, it sounds to me like he's just not getting them to move, and it doesn't sound like he's in a situation where he has access to barbells.

    My question: What would be most efficient to get the pc activated in an untrained lifter who may not be effectively activating those muscles under load bearing exercise?
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
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    Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »
    Here's the thing, squats don't really activate the hamstrings as well everybody assumes; it's roughly 25% based on EMG data. Additionally, the Biceps Femoris is the most activated and the other two hamstring muscles are typically not really activated in the squat anyway. You will want to use other methods to activate your hamstrings if they are indeed weak.

    I'd like some of those high tech goofy pants that show you how much you're using to watch this happen live on the ap.
  • ForecasterJason
    ForecasterJason Posts: 2,577 Member
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    If possible, I would really like to solve this issue with what I currently have. In addition to doing the leg curls, I do some hip bridges as well. I will also try to stretch my hip flexors more often. The problem with that stretch is that even with two big pillows underneath my knees, I find it puts a lot of pressure on my knees.
    It was mentioned earlier in the thread that the pelvic tilt is more of an issue of endurance rather than strength, so I would think it would be beneficial to do the curls with high reps as well.
  • dbmata
    dbmata Posts: 12,951 Member
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    Dude, don't put pillows in between your thigh and calves. You don't want to add a spacer.
  • auddii
    auddii Posts: 15,357 Member
    edited December 2014
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    ForecasterJason wrote: »
    If possible, I would really like to solve this issue with what I currently have. In addition to doing the leg curls, I do some hip bridges as well. I will also try to stretch my hip flexors more often. The problem with that stretch is that even with two big pillows underneath my knees, I find it puts a lot of pressure on my knees.
    It was mentioned earlier in the thread that the pelvic tilt is more of an issue of endurance rather than strength, so I would think it would be beneficial to do the curls with high reps as well.

    If I recall correctly you are trying to do a bulk. Are you following a pre-made progressive resistance training program?
  • ForecasterJason
    ForecasterJason Posts: 2,577 Member
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    auddii wrote: »
    ForecasterJason wrote: »
    If possible, I would really like to solve this issue with what I currently have. In addition to doing the leg curls, I do some hip bridges as well. I will also try to stretch my hip flexors more often. The problem with that stretch is that even with two big pillows underneath my knees, I find it puts a lot of pressure on my knees.
    It was mentioned earlier in the thread that the pelvic tilt is more of an issue of endurance rather than strength, so I would think it would be beneficial to do the curls with high reps as well.

    If I recall correctly you are trying to do a bulk. Are you following a pre-made progressive resistance training program?
    I'm not following an actual program. I actually didn't even think of it when I first started. But it would be difficult given the limited number of compound lifts I can do with the equipment I have.
    dbmata wrote:
    Dude, don't put pillows in between your thigh and calves. You don't want to add a spacer.
    Hmm, well then I'm not sure how to do that stretch without making my knees sore.

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