Let's be serious about Paleo
Replies
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Whenever a new diet/lifestyle comes out, there will be some truth to it and a lot of bias beliefs. As a researcher, one has to be able to understand the truth and eliminate the bias opinions.
Paleo, Primal, Clean Eating, Zone, Soy Zone, Mediterranean, Sugar Buster, Atkins maintenace are a "class" of diets/lifestyles which I call the moderate-carb lifestyle (Carbs 30-40%; Fats 25-40%; Protein 25%-35%). Each of them has some truth to it and a lot of bias opinions.
As I have a condition which requires me to eliminate high gi and processed foods, I naturally follow a "shop the perimeter", "eat what is in season" lifestyle. Some would call this 80/20 Primal or Mediterranean since most of my carbs come from vegetables, fruits, and the occassional soy product.
In the end, only your opinion matters to which lifestyle you follow.0 -
The basic food of paleo are quite effective in satiation in dieting.
However, that is the true reason why the diet works for people who do not count calories. The real meaning of obesity in a world where we cannot calculate energy would be dependent upon how much we eat.
Hypothetical situation in a world where we could not count energy in our food this is the ideal thing that would happen
Person A consumes non processed food until full - 500 calories
Person B consumes all processed food until full - 1000 calories.
They have done studies on satiety and the fullness that food gives you and there was a high connection to the more processed a food was, the less satiety per calorie it would have.
That is not the basis of Paleo, their evidence lies within gluten and sugars which is not the true cause of obesity. Their followers have a cultist like presentation and the scientific community turns against them for being overzealous.
There is no scientific evidence that sugar and gluten causes obesity.
Obesity(Mentally) is cause by blind caloric intake and the weakness of satiation of foods that people consume which is normally processed.
Obesity(Physically) is caused by the laws of thermodynamics of in>out
Some people say "I am on paleo, but I still eat grains/bread on the occasion"
No, you are not on paleo. You are on a proper diet of incorporating high satiety foods with processed foods which should be the basis of a blind caloric intake diet. That is the proper diet to live your lifestyle.
The elimination and full restriction of certain food groups that are not based on a medical condition is the reason why 90% of "dieters" fail. It has to be a sustainable lifestyle.
Some people are fine with elimination of processed foods, but that is not the case for most people.
This is the satiety index. As you can see there is a correlation between "paleo foods" and high satiation.
For those who know me know I consume processed foods. I consume many whole foods as well. I am a big advocate of eating many foods with the skin still on it due to the heavy satiation it can offer.(other than oranges). I am a big advocate of moderation while staying within your energy balance. Fruits and meats probably offer some of the heaviest satiation out all the other foods groups.
The best way to live your life is by moderation. That includes lifestyle, practices, and thinking
What I am against are overzealous people who follow a group and argue with little to no scientific evidence.
Their basis is that our ancestors did it, etc.
http://www.ucsyd.dk/fileadmin/user_upload/om_uc_syddanmark/dokumenter/marianne_markers_kursus_NRO/110228_Holt et al Satiety index.pdf
satiety index
I am so glad you posted this because I work with some Paleo's who are really strict and adhere to this diet but honestly they take it to the extreme; they definitely act like they are in a cult. Yeah they are fit but I don't follow this AT ALL and I am just as fit.
Millions have been spent on various diet fads but the ONLY way to combat obesity is the general 'moderation, portion control and consistency with cardio and weight training' I LOVE counting calories as it really works for me but I also work out 5-6 times a week and satisfied with the results to date.
I am very reluctant to turn Paleo or any other 'diet fad'.0 -
Bump0
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im not saying dont eat them buttttttt processed foods are not optimal for overall internal health0
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well there is alot of information about this. fortification of nutrients has been proven useful and it has also been abused.im not saying dont eat them buttttttt processed foods are not optimal for overall internal health
especially in parts of the world where it was harder to achieve certain nutrients.
At the same time I enjoy certain processed foods. i been eating sweet tarts lately. i enjoy pastries, etc.
protein shakes are considered processed but they provide an extremely high satiety and also allow us to have optimal protein intake.0 -
well there is alot of information about this. fortification of nutrients has been proven useful and it has also been abused.im not saying dont eat them buttttttt processed foods are not optimal for overall internal health
especially in parts of the world where it was harder to achieve certain nutrients.
At the same time I enjoy certain processed foods. i been eating sweet tarts lately. i enjoy pastries, etc.
protein shakes are considered processed but they provide an extremely high satiety and also allow us to have optimal protein intake.
im not to worried about the worlds needs for nutrients, thats an entire different debate.
Before paleo i ate pretty much anything but then I did full paleo along with intermittent fasting and followed it to the dime for a year and a half. After that i went back to adding grains dairy and other processed foods while still fasting and i could tell my stomache couldnt digest it really well. I pretty much always had a bloated (which made it hard to get my abdomen as lean as i wanted it) and upset stomache when i ate them. Along with rashes all over my body. I didnt have to go to a doctor to figure it out, it was obvious that i became intollerent to dairy, gluten etc. Which isnt a bad thing because they are processed and so i figured my body does not need them. They were clearly not optimal "nutrients" for me so I cut them out again and and in less than a week I felt much better.
At the moment i dont follow paleo religiously, but i am fully aware of how my body reacts when i eat proccessed and gluten etc. i dont believe them to be optimal. But this is just off of my experience.0 -
Bump for the chart0
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Then why even go online on the forums? This is for educational purposes.
Trying to explain why the diet works so people will understand the effectiveness rather than using the argument of reverting back to the stone age.You seem to be on a mission.
The original basis is wrong
Who the f cares? If it works for folks, and people want to try it. Let em.
ranting against it is not equal to educating people.0 -
I ate less and exercised more.
140 days later I am 31 lbs less, with 15 to go.
I DID give up processed sugar products and wheat, but it was staying under my calories in MFP journaling that got me through what I have been trying to do at the gym for 32 years.
I like the look of Paleo, but I also like nuts, non-fat dairy, oatmeal and a good micro-brew once and a while.
I just stay below my daily goal.0 -
You forgot to mention why the satiety on processed food is so low. Obesity researchers call sugar (sucrose) and high fructose corn syrup, the "anti-satiety" element in processed food. It is included in virtually all processed food, and especially restaurant food: it supplies only calories. The reason why a diet that eliminates processed foods and sweets works is that it eliminates the non-satiety foodstuffs while retaining the nourishing foods our bodies crave (even if our minds don't). Being successful includes training our minds to want what our bodies want.
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"[/quote] Millions have been spent on various diet fads but the ONLY way to combat obesity is the general 'moderation, portion control and consistency with cardio and weight training' I LOVE counting calories as it really works for me but I also work out 5-6 times a week and satisfied with the results to date.
I am very reluctant to turn Paleo or any other 'diet fad'."
[/quote]
I AGREE.0 -
I couldn't agree with the OP more. The diet works because calories taken in are drastically reduced because the foods eaten make you feel fuller with less calories. But whole food groups are taken out of the diet for the wrong reasons. I worry about the long-term effects on bone structure and cancer development on a diet so lacking in Vitamin D and Calcium.0
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Then why even go online on the forums? This is for educational purposes.
Trying to explain why the diet works so people will understand the effectiveness rather than using the argument of reverting back to the stone age.You seem to be on a mission.
The original basis is wrong
Who the f cares? If it works for folks, and people want to try it. Let em.
ranting against it is not equal to educating people.
I was not ranting. I am educating people the effectiveness of paleo and incorporating the reason it works into a normal diet. Did you even read it?
This wasnt a full out anti-paleo thread.0 -
You forgot to mention why the satiety on processed food is so low. Obesity researchers call sugar (sucrose) and high fructose corn syrup, the "anti-satiety" element in processed food. It is included in virtually all processed food, and especially restaurant food: it supplies only calories. The reason why a diet that eliminates processed foods and sweets works is that it eliminates the non-satiety foodstuffs while retaining the nourishing foods our bodies crave (even if our minds don't). Being successful includes training our minds to want what our bodies want.
There is no scientific evidence stating about sucrose being the cause of obesity. If you actually look at the index why is it that fruit has a high satiation if the carbohydrate in there is sucrose?0 -
Im glad thats the only thing you grabbed onto the whole threadRoasted orange peal with honey and cinnamon is one of my favorite holiday treats.
although ill have to give it a try.
LOL.... Great thread... I never even heard of the Paleo diet until recently... I eat everything in moderation, but because I like how non processed food make me feel majority of my diet is lean meats veggies and fruits with small amounts of bread carbs usually near TOM
)
Yay! To eating everything in moderation!!!0 -
Trying to explain why the diet works so people will understand the effectiveness rather than using the argument of reverting back to the stone age.You seem to be on a mission.
The original basis is wrong
There are many satiating foods that paleo scorns.
That is true but their basis on no processed foods is what allows it to be a successful diet
A lot of diets have that basis though.0 -
such as?
Trying to explain why the diet works so people will understand the effectiveness rather than using the argument of reverting back to the stone age.You seem to be on a mission.
The original basis is wrong
There are many satiating foods that paleo scorns.
That is true but their basis on no processed foods is what allows it to be a successful diet
A lot of diets have that basis though.
what big name diets?
atkins? no
veganism? no
vegetarian? no
zone diet? no
IFFYM? no0 -
Bump
I have a hard time taking Paleo seriously and this may help.0 -
Bump
I have a hard time taking Paleo seriously and this may help.
the thing is paleo does work, its their presentation, scientific basis, food group elimination is what I have a problem with.
The raptor goes in the middle0 -
I was not ranting. I am educating people the effectiveness of paleo and incorporating the reason it works into a normal diet. Did you even read it?
This wasn't a full out anti-paleo thread.
Just to provide a little unsolicited feedback, while it wasn't an anti-paleo rant, your topic did have a "soapbox" feel to it.
If you wanted to communicate the same point in a less preachy way, I would start with why good diets work (satiety), show how paleo supports satiety, and then point out that it's also needlessly restrictive. Making the point that it's a got some strong points, but goes too far.
What would have been even better - because you have some great content here - is to look at more than one of the more restrictive diets to see how they measure up on satiety and maybe even try to pull stats on their effectiveness. Time consuming, but really valuable to the MFP community.0 -
I was not ranting. I am educating people the effectiveness of paleo and incorporating the reason it works into a normal diet. Did you even read it?
This wasn't a full out anti-paleo thread.
Just to provide a little unsolicited feedback, while it wasn't an anti-paleo rant, your topic did have a "soapbox" feel to it.
If you wanted to communicate the same point in a less preachy way, I would start with why good diets work (satiety), show how paleo supports satiety, and then point out that it's also needlessly restrictive. Making the point that it's a got some strong points, but goes too far.
What would have been even better - because you have some great content here - is to look at more than one of the more restrictive diets to see how they measure up on satiety and maybe even try to pull stats on their effectiveness. Time consuming, but really valuable to the MFP community.
There are not many diets that follow the route of unprocessed foods that were as successful as paleo. The problem in the end is based off of sustainability and the content I linked were to studies that were published on the effectiveness of nonprocessed foods.
This post was not meant to be a sticky but as a discussion. He was the only person who had a true problem with the post and was talking about me ranting. I was pointing out what was effective on paleo.
Out of all the diets paleo is the one which contained the least processed foods and put it on a near full restriction.
As I said before the following diets do not restrict processed foods
veganism
vegetarianism
atkins
zone diet
IIFYM(they are supposed to consume "healthy" and "unhealthy") but does not have set guidelines.0 -
There are not many diets that follow the route of unprocessed foods that were as successful as paleo. The problem in the end is based off of sustainability and the content I linked were to studies that were published on the effectiveness of nonprocessed foods.
This post was not meant to be a sticky but as a discussion. He was the only person who had a true problem with the post and was talking about me ranting. I was pointing out what was effective on paleo.
Out of all the diets paleo is the one which contained the least processed foods and put it on a near full restriction.
As I said before the following diets do not restrict processed foods
veganism
vegetarianism
atkins
zone diet
IIFYM(they are supposed to consume "healthy" and "unhealthy") but does not have set guidelines.
I guess "Diet for a Small Planet" never really took off, did it. If I can remember "Eat More To Lose Weight" emphasized whole foods, but that died with the low fat thing in the 90's.0 -
Sorry, I can't be serious about paleo. I just don't have it in me.0
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I believe there is another reason why Paleo and other variations work. The more I am reading about Paleo and other like-minded diets, I have notice the diets are following a very high fiber model (i.e. low gi foods ... good, high gi foods ... bad). I believe there is a study happening now which compares the effect of very, high fiber diets with low carbs.0
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The cereals in that chart must not include milk. I can pound several bowls of cereal and still be hungry.
As for paleo, meh. If I was going to do a diet, it would be that one.
I do have to say that your criticisms of Paleo are as silly as the diet itself. The tenets of Paleo are no more silly than your proposition of
OF COURSE it's in>out, but you've just thrown out the incredibly complex mechanisms that the body uses to manage energy. Not all calories are made the same. Satiety is a big part of it, bu it's not the sole contributor."Obesity(Physically) is caused by the laws of thermodynamics of in>out"0 -
DatMurse, I appreciate your post. Thank you.0
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One thing that I've noticed it that my toddlers consistently choose food low in dietary fiber, while I need to pay attention to my consumption of those foods to feel full. I've begun to wonder if that's one of the differences between kid and adult nutritional needs.0
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Kids are a little different. I do not read studies of pediatric nutrition. All I know is let them eat foods that they enjoy and that was from my maternal and family nursing classes.One thing that I've noticed it that my toddlers consistently choose food low in dietary fiber, while I need to pay attention to my consumption of those foods to feel full. I've begun to wonder if that's one of the differences between kid and adult nutritional needs.
Their metabolic rate is obviously higher than their calories per lb of weight calculation and all metabolic calculations do not apply to kids because of their growing and it is highly individualized.0 -
I agree. If I had to blindly follow a a fad diet(with a name attached to it) it would be paleo.The cereals in that chart must not include milk. I can pound several bowls of cereal and still be hungry.
As for paleo, meh. If I was going to do a diet, it would be that one.
I do have to say that your criticisms of Paleo are as silly as the diet itself. The tenets of Paleo are no more silly than your proposition of
OF COURSE it's in>out, but you've just thrown out the incredibly complex mechanisms that the body uses to manage energy. Not all calories are made the same. Satiety is a big part of it, bu it's not the sole contributor."Obesity(Physically) is caused by the laws of thermodynamics of in>out"
That isnt the case and we are capable of utilizing energy requiements.
but tin regards to the causes of obesity I separated the physical and mental aspects of it. It is natural to eat to satisfaction.
with unprocessed foods you hit that much sooner than you do for processed(calorie wise)0 -
I was not ranting. I am educating people the effectiveness of paleo and incorporating the reason it works into a normal diet. Did you even read it?
This wasn't a full out anti-paleo thread.
Just to provide a little unsolicited feedback, while it wasn't an anti-paleo rant, your topic did have a "soapbox" feel to it.
If you wanted to communicate the same point in a less preachy way, I would start with why good diets work (satiety), show how paleo supports satiety, and then point out that it's also needlessly restrictive. Making the point that it's a got some strong points, but goes too far.
What would have been even better - because you have some great content here - is to look at more than one of the more restrictive diets to see how they measure up on satiety and maybe even try to pull stats on their effectiveness. Time consuming, but really valuable to the MFP community.
There are not many diets that follow the route of unprocessed foods that were as successful as paleo. The problem in the end is based off of sustainability and the content I linked were to studies that were published on the effectiveness of nonprocessed foods.
This post was not meant to be a sticky but as a discussion. He was the only person who had a true problem with the post and was talking about me ranting. I was pointing out what was effective on paleo.
Out of all the diets paleo is the one which contained the least processed foods and put it on a near full restriction.
As I said before the following diets do not restrict processed foods
veganism
vegetarianism
atkins
zone diet
IIFYM(they are supposed to consume "healthy" and "unhealthy") but does not have set guidelines.
Raw vegan eliminates processed foods!0
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