Let's be serious about Paleo

tcraw15

The basic food of paleo are quite effective in satiation in dieting.
However, that is the true reason why the diet works for people who do not count calories. The real meaning of obesity in a world where we cannot calculate energy would be dependent upon how much we eat.

Hypothetical situation in a world where we could not count energy in our food this is the ideal thing that would happen
Person A consumes non processed food until full - 500 calories
Person B consumes all processed food until full - 1000 calories.

They have done studies on satiety and the fullness that food gives you and there was a high connection to the more processed a food was, the less satiety per calorie it would have.

That is not the basis of Paleo, their evidence lies within gluten and sugars which is not the true cause of obesity. Their followers have a cultist like presentation and the scientific community turns against them for being overzealous.

There is no scientific evidence that sugar and gluten causes obesity.
Obesity(Mentally) is cause by blind caloric intake and the weakness of satiation of foods that people consume which is normally processed.
Obesity(Physically) is caused by the laws of thermodynamics of in>out

Some people say "I am on paleo, but I still eat grains/bread on the occasion"
No, you are not on paleo. You are on a proper diet of incorporating high satiety foods with processed foods which should be the basis of a blind caloric intake diet. That is the proper diet to live your lifestyle.

The elimination and full restriction of certain food groups that are not based on a medical condition is the reason why 90% of "dieters" fail. It has to be a sustainable lifestyle.

Some people are fine with elimination of processed foods, but that is not the case for most people.



This is the satiety index. As you can see there is a correlation between "paleo foods" and high satiation.

For those who know me know I consume processed foods. I consume many whole foods as well. I am a big advocate of eating many foods with the skin still on it due to the heavy satiation it can offer.(other than oranges). I am a big advocate of moderation while staying within your energy balance. Fruits and meats probably offer some of the heaviest satiation out all the other foods groups.
The best way to live your life is by moderation. That includes lifestyle, practices, and thinking

What I am against are overzealous people who follow a group and argue with little to no scientific evidence.
Their basis is that our ancestors did it, etc.


http://www.ucsyd.dk/fileadmin/user_upload/om_uc_syddanmark/dokumenter/marianne_markers_kursus_NRO/110228_Holt et al Satiety index.pdf
satiety index

This is a great, informative post. Thanks for sharing. I myself do not really count calories on an everyday basis. If I do, it's just because I like to see where I am at and how I'm doing with it. I generally eat whole foods with little to no processed foods, but I like to indulge every once in a while. Actually, I pretty much eat whatever I want and I seem to be doing well with it.

So with that being said, yes, moderation is key.

DatMurse

I just watched this video of this girl that I've been following for awhile. She's having great success with her body but I noticed something today. Her face is starting to look horrible. Her eyes have these black circles under them and she's walking around all lifeless and crap. I was like whoa. She really looked like she was weighed down with chains. Sure she has a nice body but at what cost? She was showing what all she eats too, it was in my opinion, way too much fat for one day and too unhealthy.

I watched the video today on The China Study, which can be found at the link below. It shows that high levels of protein and fat are linked to heart disease. If ever I've seen a diet that is high in protein and fat it's this one. So, is this diet really ideal, no. Not according this study that was done by medical doctors and I think that is pretty credible in my book. Please feel free to watch it for yourself. What do you have to lose? An hour of time for a video or 20-30 years of your life, you decide.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOEeTJY5zCM

the china study is a sham and the results had little to do with what was properly said in the book. That "study" was not peer reviewed before the book was published. He let his personal beliefs create the book rather than the study

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com/China-Study.html
http://anthonycolpo.com/the-china-study-more-vegan-nonsense/
http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/cancer/the-china-study-vs-the-china-study/
http://rawfoodsos.com/2010/07/07/the-china-study-fact-or-fallac/

DatMurse

btw the one Denise Minger wrote is based soley around his data. She is also an ex-vegan

NikiandZak

Bump for later

cmcollins001

In for information and stuff

dieKriegerin77

bump for later.

SanteMulberry

"...Fruit is not a sugary food? So you should be able to want more fruit because it has less sugar? You are bringing up sucrose into this conversation when there is little to no indication on the effect of satiation in the human body. there are plenty of products out there that are gluten free and sugar free that have little to no satiation on the body.
lentils vs cheese.
mars candy bars vs jelly beans(which is straight sugar) ..."

Not at all sure of what you are trying to say here. If you will check back, you will see that I have said all simple carbs and especially sugar (sucrose and hfcs) consumption are problematic. When my brother was diagnosed with Type II, his dopey doc put him on a low fat/no fat diet and told him he didn't need to watch his sugar consumption--that weight loss alone would bring his diabetes under control. So my brother, in spite of the warnings I gave him, would, at times, eat an entire package of Snackwells (fat-free) and drink three glasses of skim milk (for a "snack"). He did actually lose a fair bit of weight (very low-fat diets tend to be low-calorie diets) but the weight loss could have been more a result of the Glucophage than anything else. BUT, HIS DIABETES GOT WORSE. He is now on insulin and since he had gastric issues on the Glucophage, they cut it out. Since he started the insulin and they cut out the Glucophage, he has regained all the weight he lost plus more and he is starting to have complications (foot ulcers). It was absolutely the worst diet he could have been on.

If he had been on the Paleo diet, I'm pretty sure he would have done a lot better. I don't follow the Paleo diet (I find it to be a bit too restrictive for me) but I eat no added sugar and limit my carbohydrates to 70-100 grams per day (I eat no simple ones). When I reach the point where I am satisfied with the level of body fat, I will up my carbs to between 100 and 150 grams per day. But I will still avoid sugary foods and simple carbs for the rest of my life. When I started on my pursuit of better health three years ago, I had hypertension (even though I was on two b.p. meds--AND my doc wanted to put me on a third). I was beginning to have crippling joint pain, and my blood sugars were running too high. I was a perfect candidate for TYPE II because I had a first degree relative with Type II (my mother also had Type II and died of complications from it) and I had gestational diabetes. I decided I'd had enough of feeling so crummy and started investigating. My fbs is now in the normal range, my HbA1C is great, my triglycerides are low and the best news is that my b.p. runs about 110/70 most days WITHOUT MEDICATION (I was able to taper off shortly after I stopped the sugar and simple carbs--even before I had lost much weight). It's hard to argue with results like that.

ETA: AND my arthritis has improved a LOT with the weight loss and the swimming I'm doing. :-)

DatMurse

"...Fruit is not a sugary food? So you should be able to want more fruit because it has less sugar? You are bringing up sucrose into this conversation when there is little to no indication on the effect of satiation in the human body. there are plenty of products out there that are gluten free and sugar free that have little to no satiation on the body.
lentils vs cheese.
mars candy bars vs jelly beans(which is straight sugar) ..."

Not at all sure of what you are trying to say here. If you will check back, you will see that I have said all simple carbs and especially sugar (sucrose and hfcs) consumption are problematic. When my brother was diagnosed with Type II, his dopey doc put him on a low fat/no fat diet and told him he didn't need to watch his sugar consumption--that weight loss alone would bring his diabetes under control. So my brother, in spite of the warnings I gave him, would, at times, eat an entire package of Snackwells (fat-free) and drink three glasses of skim milk (for a "snack"). He did actually lose a fair bit of weight (very low-fat diets tend to be low-calorie diets) but the weight loss could have been more a result of the Glucophage than anything else. BUT, HIS DIABETES GOT WORSE. He is now on insulin and since he had gastric issues on the Glucophage, they cut it out. Since he started the insulin and they cut out the Glucophage, he has regained all the weight he lost plus more and he is starting to have complications (foot ulcers). It was absolutely the worst diet he could have been on.

If he had been on the Paleo diet, I'm pretty sure he would have done a lot better. I don't follow the Paleo diet (I find it to be a bit too restrictive for me) but I eat no added sugar and limit my carbohydrates to 70-100 grams per day (I eat no simple ones). When I reach the point where I am satisfied with the level of body fat, I will up my carbs to between 100 and 150 grams per day. But I will still avoid sugary foods and simple carbs for the rest of my life. When I started on my pursuit of better health three years ago, I had hypertension (even though I was on two b.p. meds--AND my doc wanted to put me on a third). I was beginning to have crippling joint pain, and my blood sugars were running too high. I was a perfect candidate for TYPE II because I had a first degree relative with Type II (my mother also had Type II and died of complications from it) and I had gestational diabetes. I decided I'd had enough of feeling so crummy and started investigating. My fbs is now in the normal range, my HbA1C is great, my triglycerides are low and the best news is that my b.p. runs about 110/70 most days WITHOUT MEDICATION (I was able to taper off shortly after I stopped the sugar and simple carbs--even before I had lost much weight). It's hard to argue with results like that.

ETA: AND my arthritis has improved a LOT with the weight loss and the swimming I'm doing. :-)

well congratulations. his complications of foot ulcers is not necessarily a complication of his blood sugar.
It could be poor teaching and foot care. Shoes, etc.

. His BS was under control and peripheral neuropathy is a problem with diabetes. pretty standard. The insulin resistance is still decreased if he is hypocaloric.
I am a candidate for T2 as well. There are many factors that will help with BS control. Including resistance training.

Correlation is not always causation but I do agree with you in regards to paleo for someone of his condition. Glycemic load/index is not necessary for HEALTHY individuals that EXERCISE regularly.
anyways
you were talking about sucrose being anti-satiety where jelly beans are straight sucrose. Has a higher satiety than something that is mixed.

SanteMulberry

"...his complications of foot ulcers is not necessarily a complication of his blood sugar.
It could be poor teaching and foot care. Shoes, etc....'

He goes to a foot care specialist every month. Unfortunately, there's only so much that can be done when there is poor control of blood sugar.

"...His BS was under control and peripheral neuropathy is a problem with diabetes. pretty standard. The insulin resistance is still decreased if he is hypocaloric..."

People who are leptin resistant (leptin resistance precedes and predicts insulin resistance) should not eat sugary food and simple carbohydrates. Those who are insulin resistant should definitely not. I think it was very poor medical advice to tell him he could eat anything he wanted as long as it was low fat/no fat. He's 7 years younger than me and he looks like he's about twenty years older than me.

DatMurse

"...his complications of foot ulcers is not necessarily a complication of his blood sugar.
It could be poor teaching and foot care. Shoes, etc....'

He goes to a foot care specialist every month. Unfortunately, there's only so much that can be done when there is poor control of blood sugar.

"...His BS was under control and peripheral neuropathy is a problem with diabetes. pretty standard. The insulin resistance is still decreased if he is hypocaloric..."

People who are leptin resistant (leptin resistance precedes and predicts insulin resistance) should not eat sugary food and simple carbohydrates. Those who are insulin resistant should definitely not. I think it was very poor medical advice to tell him he could eat anything he wanted as long as it was low fat/no fat. He's 7 years younger than me and he looks like he's about twenty years older than me.

sorry realized the first part was worded wrong. Take leptin with a grain of salt, it is being thrown around all over the place and is still under heavy research. I dont mention it because even though it is labeled as the anti-obesity hormone, there is not much data on it

There are other factors to consider for insulin resistance. Studies have shown that any hypocaloric diet will be effective for bs, but low carb is more effective than low fat.

pluckabee

Great post.

The pseudo science linked to the paleo lifestyle really grates my skeptic nerve and I find it impossible to trust their advice because they science is so poor.

It's really nice to see people studying the true reason paleo works, which is much more interesting and helpful

SanteMulberry

"...There are other factors to consider for insulin resistance. Studies have shown that any hypocaloric diet will be effective for blood sugar, but low carb is more effective than low fat... "

We are agreed.

DatMurse

bump

slkehl

You seem to be on a mission.

Trying to explain why the diet works so people will understand the effectiveness rather than using the argument of reverting back to the stone age.

The original basis is wrong

Who the f cares? If it works for folks, and people want to try it. Let em.

I care because these people often feel the need to tell everyone why their diet is the way everyone is "supposed" to eat.

DatMurse

bump for debate/questions

JoRocka

You seem to be on a mission.

Trying to explain why the diet works so people will understand the effectiveness rather than using the argument of reverting back to the stone age.

The original basis is wrong

THIS.


Thanks for the original post by the way. Similar mindsets.

I went paleo in the no wheats breads or grains for a month - it was hard. I found I liked being low carb... now I just shoot for 40/40/20 and if I have a half a breadstick at olive garden- or rice with my sushi- I'm okay with it.

I have enjoyed the journey to learning what I need to feel FULL- and what I need to FUNCTION. And learning I have room in my diet for ice cream every night if I want it- I just cant' use it to fuel my body for certain things. It's definitely about learning WHY something works and why it works for you. Some people are too much about that causation - all cats where black hats just because they saw one do it at halloween once ten years ago. sigh. oh well.

Great post though.