Shoe Fitting for Runners
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MeanderingMammal wrote: »
So in summary, you're recommending that someone buy inappropriate shoes, then injure themselves?
Minimalist shoes work for some, exacerbate the issue in others.
No, I'm saying that neutral shoes (not minimalist shoes, those are mainly just a bunch of marketing hokey-pokey) should be appropriate for anyone without actual physical deformities. If they aren't, fix the issue, not the shoe.
If you have a physical issue, such as flat feet, then obviously you need to account for that. For most part, pronation/supination is caused by tight and/or weak muscles in the hip/core that prevent your leg from moving as it should. No pair of shoes is going to fix that, and they might even make the problem worse, since instead of correcting the bad alignment where it originates, they introduce another offset so that you end up being crooked in two places, just in the opposite directions. You could say that you're trying to bring in two wrongs to make one right.0 -
Mixed feelings on the starting with neutral shoes approach.
When I picked up running earlier this year I got fit for a pair of neutral shoes. Did the C25k program, a couple of 5ks and stretched out to a 10k and was running 3-4 days a week. About 6 weeks ago, my ankles started to get very stiff/sore the day after I ran. It started to last a couple of days and would hurt no matter what shoe I wore. (oddly enough, it was fine when I ran.)
On the advice of a friend, I went back to another running store. The guy there seemed to really know his stuff. He had did a more comprehensive gait analysis. He felt my problems were related to pronating pretty heavily and I may want to see my doctor to see if I had posterior tibula tendonitis. He recommended a shoe with more stability and also subtlety suggested I come by a free monthly workshop they have on running form.
My doctor confirmed I had post tib tendonitis. I ended up having to take a few weeks off and really easy back in with more supportive shoes...making sure I ice several times on days I run to prevent I reaggravating the tendon.
I'm still going to the free clinic to see if there's anything I can change with my form to help. But I still wonder if I would have started with different shoes would things have been different. Or if it's form thing, would that have fixed things from the start.0 -
I don't trust the fittings.
We have a running shoe store here where they force you to jog back and forth and they watch your gait. And then they tell you that "you do this" or "you do that." Then they recommend shoes.
i worked in an athletic shoe store once. I never got that much training. And I cannot tell much about a shoe just by looking at it and/or reading about it. I have to run in it myself. For a while. That would take years to get thru the 30 to 40 different types of running shoe most sports stores carry.
So I suspect the salespeople often claim knowledge they do not have. Shoe salespeople are generally not true "professionals" after all, the way a doctor, lawyer, clergyperson, or journalist is a professional. They don't get paid enough. They do not stick with it long enough.
Yes! Go get fitted. Yes! Read about shoes. Yes! Get a gait analysis. Running puts a lot of stress on your feet and injuries are not fun. But take all advice with a dose of skepticism. Sometimes people know. Sometimes they don't. We're all different. Eventually you just have to find your own way.
this!!. you should use it as a guide but at the end of the day its about how the fit on your feet..and how they effect your gait.
i was told early on that i over pronate..heres the shoes for them...well spell of missed running and sever shin splints..i went back to nuetrals and have no problems since (not counting a broken ankle but thats another issue smile)0 -
No, I'm saying that neutral shoes (not minimalist shoes, those are mainly just a bunch of marketing hokey-pokey) should be appropriate for anyone without actual physical deformities. If they aren't, fix the issue, not the shoe.
You seem to have a pretty broad definition of deformity that probably encompasses most of the adult population.For most part, pronation/supination is caused by tight and/or weak muscles in the hip/core that prevent your leg from moving as it should.
That's a pretty bold statement, although I recognise that your previous qualifier excludes a large proportion of the sample.No pair of shoes is going to fix that, and they might even make the problem worse, since instead of correcting the bad alignment where it originates, they introduce another offset so that you end up being crooked in two places, just in the opposite directions. You could say that you're trying to bring in two wrongs to make one right.
Whilst in principle I wouldn't disagree, in practice we're talking about barriers to entry. Using a mechanical device to mitigate the issue helps people get moving. Once they're moving there is an opportunity to work on form. Its an iterative process.
From experience, years of trying to run in neutral or cushioned shoes led to lots of injury. I'd never get beyond a couple of miles, so not far enough to benefit from form clinics.
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Well, I for sure am going to get fitted. Running in my lifting / training shoes is getting old.
Both my first husband and my current husband had one leg shorter than the other. The first from a surgery (about 1/2 inch) and the second was born with a club foot (1 1/2 inches). For them shoe buying is always a big ordeal. . . . . I am luckier, but better safe than sorry.0 -
GillianMcK wrote: »I don't trust the fittings.
We have a running shoe store here where they force you to jog back and forth and they watch your gait. And then they tell you that "you do this" or "you do that." Then they recommend shoes.
i worked in an athletic shoe store once. I never got that much training. And I cannot tell much about a shoe just by looking at it and/or reading about it. I have to run in it myself. For a while. That would take years to get thru the 30 to 40 different types of running shoe most sports stores carry.
So I suspect the salespeople often claim knowledge they do not have. Shoe salespeople are generally not true "professionals" after all, the way a doctor, lawyer, clergyperson, or journalist is a professional. They don't get paid enough. They do not stick with it long enough.
Yes! Go get fitted. Yes! Read about shoes. Yes! Get a gait analysis. Running puts a lot of stress on your feet and injuries are not fun. But take all advice with a dose of skepticism. Sometimes people know. Sometimes they don't. We're all different. Eventually you just have to find your own way.
The shop I go to sounds to be the opposite of this, you're put on the treadmill first, barefoot and lower leg is filmed (always make sure you shave your legs before going as they zoom in on the calf and ankle), this is then slowed down to a frame by frame to check any pronation or bending in the ankle, using the formatting tools to see how straight etc the leg is. The put back on with trainers and filmed again, I was over an hour to get fitted for my first pair, all the staff either have or are training towards some sort of sports related degree and do a lot of running themselves.
It will depend on the shop you go to, ask running clubs in your area for recommendations.
I don't doubt that your store performs a very elaborate evaluation. I suspect there may be some value in that, somewhere.
My skepticism is about when they use that evaluation to try to recommend shoes. I think it is voodoo.
Different shoes are different. But who has ever done a study where they showed that a particular shoe feature helps with a particular type of runner?
The most recent one I know of was published in the British Journal of Sports Medicine about a year ago. They took a whole bunch of new runners who represented the entire spectrum of degrees of pronation and put them all in exactly the same Adidas shoe. They broke these people up into five groups of pronation.
At the end of a year, every group had the same injury rate.
The researchers concluded that anyone can wear a neutral shoe and be fine. ( http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23766439 )
A previous study with a smaller group, but a group of experienced runners, (women only) found the same thing. ( http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20584759 )
I am sure if I called Nike and told them that I had heard that Pegasus wasn't good for heavy pronators, their response would be: No. Pegasus is a good shoe! Why would we make a shoe that wasn't good for some people.
Same would be the case if I called New Balance or Saucony or whatever.
Yes, there are shoes that fit my feet better. Yes, I suspect that there are shoes that have caused me injury. But you just have to find out for yourself.
After all, I have gotten injured in my favorite shoes. Many times, in fact.
P.S. Runner's World, i believe, rates shoes for their stability, cushion, etc., if you want some information to inform your shoe choice.0 -
I have no confidence in getting fitted or having my gait analyzed. My first pair of shoes were "traditional" running shoes and they quickly hurt my knees, hips and back. I have physical deformities in that I have had both of my hips replaced. I promptly switched to minimalist shoes (which are not marketing hokey-pokey) and my problems and pains evaporated within two days. I have had no issues even up to 45-50 miles per week and tackling a couple of ultras.
Every time I went into a running shoe store to purchase new shoes, the only thing they did was try to sell me all kinds of shoes, except minimalist shoes. They told me my stride, my gait and my titanium hips needed cushioning and stability and whatever else. They kept telling me I would seriously injure myself running distances in minimalist shoes. Three and a half years of running and over 4,500 miles later... still waiting for those injuries. And I just buy my shoes online.
I think you have to find what works for you regardless of the pundits. I know minimalist shoes are not everyone's answer, but if I had listened to the experts, I would not be running. Zero-drop shoes let me run the way my body wants to run and that is what matters most to me.0 -
LoneWolfRunner wrote: »I promptly switched to minimalist shoes (which are not marketing hokey-pokey)
I was referring to this: http://sportsscientists.com/2014/05/vibram-lawsuit-barefoot-running-common-sense/
That obviously doesn't mean that people can't find that the shoes work for them. I've been looking for a pair for quite some time now because I would like to try them out.0 -
I like the New Balance MR00-V2 and the shoes from Merrell... they have several styles of road and trail shoes... but I also shoes have Innov-8, Altra and Montrail0
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They can 'put' the lift in the shoe; some companies will actually have it on the outside between the under part of the shoe and absorber. Expensive but a friend has it done twice a year.You can put a lift in the shoe of the shorter leg to make your pelvis even.
I'd also check with a physical therapist - preferably one that does a gait analysis (my new one does) - about how to work around the length difference without injury
A 1/2" lift is giant and makes the shoe so tight, the sports medicine doc sent me to a prosthetic place and he cut my shoe apart and inserted a 1/2" piece of hard foam. I may try and find a physical therapist or a running specialist to see if we can get it fixed. Thanks for your response!
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Xblessed17X wrote: »I went to get my shoes fitted today and I was glad I did. Apparently, I slightly pronate when I run. The shoes that the salesperson gave me to try on felt great. I felt like it really supported my foot the way I wanted. To runnerchick69, I like the idea of local shops and I agree that I'll go back to the store I went to because they were really helpful.
What'd you get fit for??
I got fitted for running shoes0 -
Xblessed17X wrote: »Xblessed17X wrote: »I went to get my shoes fitted today and I was glad I did. Apparently, I slightly pronate when I run. The shoes that the salesperson gave me to try on felt great. I felt like it really supported my foot the way I wanted. To runnerchick69, I like the idea of local shops and I agree that I'll go back to the store I went to because they were really helpful.
What'd you get fit for??
I got fitted for running shoes
Great! Hope you like them. Good shoes make running much more easy, comfortable and fun, and fun keeps you running..
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Xblessed17X wrote: »I got fitted for running shoes
She meant brand and model
I use Saucony Hurricane 15s for roads, and Saucony Xodus for trails.
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Ohhh. I got fitted for the Saucony Omni 13s I think.MeanderingMammal wrote: »Xblessed17X wrote: »I got fitted for running shoes
She meant brand and model
I use Saucony Hurricane 15s for roads, and Saucony Xodus for trails.
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