Shoe Fitting for Runners

Xblessed17X wrote: »

Thanks for all the suggestions! Another reason I was a little iffy about getting a shoe fitting is because I feel like I'll be forced to buy the shoes right then and there. Honestly, I'd prefer them to tell me what I need and look around for a cheaper price but I'd feel pressure to buy something then and there.

You really should buy at least your first pair from them. They are offering a service, a very important one, and I personally feel like when I use that service I owe them that much. As I said above, then go find your replacement shoes online. I shop at our two running stores for my apparel and GU for my long runs so I do business for things other than shoes. Shop local as much as possible.

603reader wrote: »

A lot of these shops have at least a 30-day return window.

Should have added, a good running shop wil have a returns policy, which helsp mitigate the risk. Online, you don't have that option.

It's a decent sizzed investment, so it's worth doing what you can to de-risk that as well.

runnerchick69 wrote: »

GillianMcK wrote: »

tufel wrote: »

I don't trust the fittings.
We have a running shoe store here where they force you to jog back and forth and they watch your gait. And then they tell you that "you do this" or "you do that." Then they recommend shoes.
i worked in an athletic shoe store once. I never got that much training. And I cannot tell much about a shoe just by looking at it and/or reading about it. I have to run in it myself. For a while. That would take years to get thru the 30 to 40 different types of running shoe most sports stores carry.
So I suspect the salespeople often claim knowledge they do not have. Shoe salespeople are generally not true "professionals" after all, the way a doctor, lawyer, clergyperson, or journalist is a professional. They don't get paid enough. They do not stick with it long enough.
Yes! Go get fitted. Yes! Read about shoes. Yes! Get a gait analysis. Running puts a lot of stress on your feet and injuries are not fun. But take all advice with a dose of skepticism. Sometimes people know. Sometimes they don't. We're all different. Eventually you just have to find your own way.

The shop I go to sounds to be the opposite of this, you're put on the treadmill first, barefoot and lower leg is filmed (always make sure you shave your legs before going as they zoom in on the calf and ankle), this is then slowed down to a frame by frame to check any pronation or bending in the ankle, using the formatting tools to see how straight etc the leg is. The put back on with trainers and filmed again, I was over an hour to get fitted for my first pair, all the staff either have or are training towards some sort of sports related degree and do a lot of running themselves.
It will depend on the shop you go to, ask running clubs in your area for recommendations.

I was thinking the same thing. My first pair took awhile to get fitted for because there was so much for them to look at. Many of our local running store employees are true professionals who are exceptionally knowledgeable when it comes to running shoes. I know they go to specific trainings to learn how to fit someone properly for shoes and many have been at their stores for a very long time. I didn't have to find my own way, that is what the pros are there for

Same here! I was there forever with my shoe fitting and trying on all different kinds of shoes. I tried just going a buying a pair of shoes and they were not at all right for my feet. I ended up with horrible shins splints and issues with my heels. As soon I as I got the correct shoes for my gait it all corrected itself.

andywaterman wrote: »

Re Grimmeanor getting an injury - how do you know it's the running that caused that injury and not walking around in running shoes all the time? Running shoes should be for running, not daily use.

The best way to not get injured is to run with good technique (try and make as little sound as possible, no slapping of rubber on concrete) and build up gradually, both in terms of distance and speed, with periods of rest built into your schedule to allow for compensation. No shoe in the world will prevent an injury if you have bad technique and push yourself too far, too fast, too often.

Excellent point. I honestly had not considered the daily use of the old running shoes being a factor, but it very well could be. I had also completed my first half a couple weeks prior, and only did short recovery runs. So at first I thought I had just overdone it and really only began suspecting the shoes because of the discomfort from daily use. Funny how sometimes the obvious explanations are elusive. It's probably "all of the above".

zipa78 wrote: »

People without any physical deformities should really just get neutral shoes. If those don't work out for you, you should find out why and then work on correcting the issue that is causing you to have improper form.

So in summary, you're recommending that someone buy inappropriate shoes, then injure themselves?

In practice, as running form improves the need for motion control shoes or cushioned shoes does reduce, but it's a systemic issue. Equally different tools for different jobs. For road running I'll use motion control, for trail running I'll use lower drop, higher traction.

I suspect it's your first comment that's the issue. Physical deformity might mean "flat feet" or "high arches" which each benefit from a different type of shoe.

Minimalist shoes work for some, exacerbate the issue in others.

Mixed feelings on the starting with neutral shoes approach.

When I picked up running earlier this year I got fit for a pair of neutral shoes. Did the C25k program, a couple of 5ks and stretched out to a 10k and was running 3-4 days a week. About 6 weeks ago, my ankles started to get very stiff/sore the day after I ran. It started to last a couple of days and would hurt no matter what shoe I wore. (oddly enough, it was fine when I ran.)

On the advice of a friend, I went back to another running store. The guy there seemed to really know his stuff. He had did a more comprehensive gait analysis. He felt my problems were related to pronating pretty heavily and I may want to see my doctor to see if I had posterior tibula tendonitis. He recommended a shoe with more stability and also subtlety suggested I come by a free monthly workshop they have on running form.

My doctor confirmed I had post tib tendonitis. I ended up having to take a few weeks off and really easy back in with more supportive shoes...making sure I ice several times on days I run to prevent I reaggravating the tendon.

I'm still going to the free clinic to see if there's anything I can change with my form to help. But I still wonder if I would have started with different shoes would things have been different. Or if it's form thing, would that have fixed things from the start.

zipa78 wrote: »

No, I'm saying that neutral shoes (not minimalist shoes, those are mainly just a bunch of marketing hokey-pokey) should be appropriate for anyone without actual physical deformities. If they aren't, fix the issue, not the shoe.

You seem to have a pretty broad definition of deformity that probably encompasses most of the adult population.

For most part, pronation/supination is caused by tight and/or weak muscles in the hip/core that prevent your leg from moving as it should.

That's a pretty bold statement, although I recognise that your previous qualifier excludes a large proportion of the sample.

No pair of shoes is going to fix that, and they might even make the problem worse, since instead of correcting the bad alignment where it originates, they introduce another offset so that you end up being crooked in two places, just in the opposite directions. You could say that you're trying to bring in two wrongs to make one right.

Whilst in principle I wouldn't disagree, in practice we're talking about barriers to entry. Using a mechanical device to mitigate the issue helps people get moving. Once they're moving there is an opportunity to work on form. Its an iterative process.

From experience, years of trying to run in neutral or cushioned shoes led to lots of injury. I'd never get beyond a couple of miles, so not far enough to benefit from form clinics.

GillianMcK wrote: »

tufel wrote: »

I don't trust the fittings.
We have a running shoe store here where they force you to jog back and forth and they watch your gait. And then they tell you that "you do this" or "you do that." Then they recommend shoes.
i worked in an athletic shoe store once. I never got that much training. And I cannot tell much about a shoe just by looking at it and/or reading about it. I have to run in it myself. For a while. That would take years to get thru the 30 to 40 different types of running shoe most sports stores carry.
So I suspect the salespeople often claim knowledge they do not have. Shoe salespeople are generally not true "professionals" after all, the way a doctor, lawyer, clergyperson, or journalist is a professional. They don't get paid enough. They do not stick with it long enough.
Yes! Go get fitted. Yes! Read about shoes. Yes! Get a gait analysis. Running puts a lot of stress on your feet and injuries are not fun. But take all advice with a dose of skepticism. Sometimes people know. Sometimes they don't. We're all different. Eventually you just have to find your own way.

The shop I go to sounds to be the opposite of this, you're put on the treadmill first, barefoot and lower leg is filmed (always make sure you shave your legs before going as they zoom in on the calf and ankle), this is then slowed down to a frame by frame to check any pronation or bending in the ankle, using the formatting tools to see how straight etc the leg is. The put back on with trainers and filmed again, I was over an hour to get fitted for my first pair, all the staff either have or are training towards some sort of sports related degree and do a lot of running themselves.
It will depend on the shop you go to, ask running clubs in your area for recommendations.

I don't doubt that your store performs a very elaborate evaluation. I suspect there may be some value in that, somewhere.
My skepticism is about when they use that evaluation to try to recommend shoes. I think it is voodoo.
Different shoes are different. But who has ever done a study where they showed that a particular shoe feature helps with a particular type of runner?
The most recent one I know of was published in the British Journal of Sports Medicine about a year ago. They took a whole bunch of new runners who represented the entire spectrum of degrees of pronation and put them all in exactly the same Adidas shoe. They broke these people up into five groups of pronation.
At the end of a year, every group had the same injury rate.
The researchers concluded that anyone can wear a neutral shoe and be fine. ( http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23766439 )
A previous study with a smaller group, but a group of experienced runners, (women only) found the same thing. ( http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20584759 )
I am sure if I called Nike and told them that I had heard that Pegasus wasn't good for heavy pronators, their response would be: No. Pegasus is a good shoe! Why would we make a shoe that wasn't good for some people.
Same would be the case if I called New Balance or Saucony or whatever.
Yes, there are shoes that fit my feet better. Yes, I suspect that there are shoes that have caused me injury. But you just have to find out for yourself.
After all, I have gotten injured in my favorite shoes. Many times, in fact.
P.S. Runner's World, i believe, rates shoes for their stability, cushion, etc., if you want some information to inform your shoe choice.

LoneWolfRunner wrote: »

I promptly switched to minimalist shoes (which are not marketing hokey-pokey)

I was referring to this: http://sportsscientists.com/2014/05/vibram-lawsuit-barefoot-running-common-sense/

That obviously doesn't mean that people can't find that the shoes work for them. I've been looking for a pair for quite some time now because I would like to try them out.

bbastin55 wrote: »

603reader wrote: »

You can put a lift in the shoe of the shorter leg to make your pelvis even.
I'd also check with a physical therapist - preferably one that does a gait analysis (my new one does) - about how to work around the length difference without injury

A 1/2" lift is giant and makes the shoe so tight, the sports medicine doc sent me to a prosthetic place and he cut my shoe apart and inserted a 1/2" piece of hard foam. I may try and find a physical therapist or a running specialist to see if we can get it fixed. Thanks for your response!

They can 'put' the lift in the shoe; some companies will actually have it on the outside between the under part of the shoe and absorber. Expensive but a friend has it done twice a year.