A Question About Sugar
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Charlottesometimes23 wrote: »Charlottesometimes23 wrote: »
Theortically yes. But the composition of that weight loss will be different.If you read what i wrote on the last page you will understand.
I don't understand and when I suggested two alternative interpretations you didn't help. Let's try again to make it really simple for me :-
Do you believe that the same weight loss will occur from eating the same number of calories irrespective of the composition of those calories ?
a) Yes.
b) No.
So a diet that gets 50% of calories from unsoluble fiber (say, 700 of 1400 calories), would have the same results as one that has no calories coming from fiber?
If the tdee and deficit are the same, regardless of the composition of the diet, the loss will be the same. Its ridiculous to try to use extreme examples because no one eats that ways.
Now if you want to show me a metabolic ward study that can prove me wrong please do. But i do know that different foods have different impacts on composition and TEF.
http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0106851
the study itself says "the sample size is too small to generalize to a larger population" so throw that one out.
http://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJM199307013290104
Subjects lost weight eating at libitum on high fiber (up to 3g per 100 calorie) diets over 4 months
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1753-4887.2001.tb07001.x/abstract
Addition of 14 g fiber/day to ad libitum diet (fiber was added to existing calories) resulted in weight loss.
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/31/7/1149.full.pdf+html
Men on high fiber diet (12 g/day) excreted twice the amount of ingested energy (an extra 970 calories over a week) than those on a low fiber diet (1 g/day)
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/32/2/346.short
"Plant fibers are the portions of plant foods that are not digested in the human small intestine"
Fiber is a carb that is not used for energy. The calories from fiber (100% for unsoluble fiber and up to 100% of soluble fiber) are not used by the body. A calorie is not a calorie.
Diets with higher percentages of calories from fiber will result in higher losses of fat because fiber calories are not used the way other carbohydrate calories are used. Also, some plant fats are indigestable.
Please post your study proving weight loss is not impacted by macro and fiber content.
Again, there are no calories in fibre. Fibre is an indigestible bulking agent.
You continue to say calories from fibre to prove your point that all calories aren't the same but it doesn't prove your point at all. It shows that you don't understand what fibre is.
Fiber has calories. The calories aren't always digestible (by humans) but they are there, and are counted towards your daily calorie goal by MFP. In labelling, fiber is included in total cabohydrates. Diabetics are sometimes told to include fiber when calculating insulin, and sometimes told to take away some fiber grams from total carbohydrate count.
Actually, if you look at the total calories, it takes into account the variance to the 4 cals per g caused by fiber.
Can I clarify? Does MFP count fibre as 4 cals per gram? At most, it would be 2 cals or gram and that's assuming it's all soluble fibre, which isn't the case for most foods.
Actually, I just reread what you said. They must make a guesstimate....
MFP (and food labels/nutritional data) calculates it at somewhere between 2 and 3. Its hard to tell for sure due to the rounding. I also believe that MFP uses an average. I am not exactly sure with labels as I have not tried to 'reverse math' it or looked into it in great detail - they could be more specific re soluble/insoluble mix, but I would doubt it tbh.
Calories still exist whether or not we can metabolize them. Insoluble fiber has calories just like any other carb, 4 per 1 gram. Calories are a unit of energy, not just units of energy that can be metabolized by humans.
I just checked the stats for my salad. 6 g carbs (incl. 3 g fiber), 2 g fat and 2 g protein = 50 total calories. MFP gives it 46 calories, which means fiber calories are deducted by 1/3 total value. My salad had 12 fiber calories, 4 of which were deducted from the total value of the meal. Someone who eats 30 grams of fiber a day, will have 90 calories intake calculated from fiber on MFP (3/4 of total fiber calories).
Manufacturers are allowed to deduct fiber calories from total calories on their nutritional labels, but must include fiber in total carbohydrates:
http://dtc.ucsf.edu/living-with-diabetes/diet-and-nutrition/understanding-carbohydrates/counting-carbohydrates/learning-to-read-labels/
"...On Nutrition Facts food labels, the grams of dietary fiber are already included in the total carbohydrate count..."
If you find the total calories are lower than what would be expected by the macro totals, it may be because the manufacturer has taken the fiber out of the total calories. Manufacturers generally deduct all fiber calories. MFP entries based on these labels will have no fiber calories included.
A lot of studies include fiber calories (at 4 per gram) in total calories consumed. This may be part of why high-fiber diets are associated with weight loss/weight management. Another reason, is that fiber carries nutrients through the digestive tract with it. One of the studies showed that the energy found in the feces of people with higher levels of fiber was double the energy value of the increased fiber. Most of that energy came from fat. The people eating more fiber were less able to access the energy from the fat they ate (it went through the digestive system undigested).
My example of 700 calories a day fiber could be someone on a vegetable fast. Some vegetables are close to 1/2 fiber as far as calories go. It's only about 6x the amount of fiber recommended in the average diet...
I am confused by your post. I think the first part agrees with what I stated (or believed to be the case), but am not sure tbh. You say insoluble fiber has calories? At 4 cals per gram? Where are you getting this from or are we talking semantics here? Not sure the point you are making with the last part.
Also, I actually looked up an example of a potato when double checking the math on what I thought was being shown - not a manufacturers label.
According to Wikipedia:
"Regardless of the type of fiber, the body absorbs less than 17 kJ/g (4.1 kcal/g), which can create inconsistencies for actual product nutrition labels. In some countries fiber is not listed on nutrition labels and is considered to provide no energy. In other countries all fiber must be listed and is simplistically considered to provide 17 kJ/g (4.1 kcal/g) (because chemically fiber is a type of carbohydrate and other carbohydrates provide that amount of energy). In the US, soluble fiber must be counted as 4 kcal/g (17 kJ/g), but insoluble fiber may be (and usually is) treated as not providing energy and not mentioned on the label."
Fiber is a type of carbohydrate. Carbohydrates provide 4.1 kcal/g. Fiber has 4.1 kcal/g. Some animals may be able to actually use this energy, but humans can't. But the fiber still has that much energy (i.e. if you burned it, that much energy would be released).
I popped my salad into MFP, and the 3 grams of fiber (mostly unsoluble) in it counted for 12 calories (instead of 16). If this follows a general rule, then someone entering a total of 30 grams of fiber would have 80 calories counted against them, that was metabolically unavailable to them. This would lead to an inadvertent additional 8 pounds lost/year.0 -
I heard it on a tv program about sugar. Not sugar what "prepare your shield" means, but I am merely repeating what I heard a dr say about 14g in 100g being the limit to cut out excess sugar, that's 14%.0
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I like TV as much as sugar0
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my father calls sugar 'white death'... wonder why?0
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Anyone who eats sugar will die. FACT.0
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I am going away now to stick pins in my eyes.0
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Delilahhhhhh wrote: »I am going away now to stick pins in my eyes.
That doesn't sound very fun.... Or safe lol.0 -
Delilahhhhhh wrote: »I am going away now to stick pins in my eyes.
And I think it's time for me to lock this. Between the attacks, trolling, and protesting moderator action, it's just best. Below are the three rules violated in this thread.
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