Advice on low carbs

FisherGT

So I have trouble going low carb without also going low calorie. Is it really true I can lose weight eating more so long as i keep my carbs down? I am trying to get down to 127, I'm at 136 right now. I am a recovering anorexic(recovery forever i suppose). I really have a hard time eating a lot of calories when I'm counting.

Can anyone give me some basics on low carb?

spoiledpuppies

In my opinion based on what I've learned low carb isn't a good idea. You'll get an initial loss because your body will use its stored glycogen for energy, and that holds a lot of water. But long-term, your body needs carbs for fuel. It might seem logical that if it doesn't have carbs, it will turn to fat stores, but your body can't convert fat directly into energy--it actually needs carbs to start the process of converting fat to energy. Your body CAN, however, convert protein to energy. So guess where it will get its energy if it doesn't have carbs to use directly or to initiate the fat burning? Protein--which it will pull from your muscles.

Only a total calorie deficit will result in weight loss--regardless of the macro balance. Keep your macros at recommended levels for general population--maybe skewing a little more heavily on protein--and stay in a deficit, and you'll lose.

Just one perspective--I don't mean to start a debate.

Psychgrrl

Have you spoken to your doctor about losing weight? Is 127 still a healthy weight for you? Please be careful and take care of yourself--a recovering anorexic thinking they can diet can be like a recovering alcoholic thinking they can have one drink.

njitaliana

Regardless of what you eat, a calorie reduction will produce weight loss. Just concentrate on counting your calories and decreasing your intake of food in general to lose weight. Use MFP to show you how many calories you need each day to lose.

eric_sg61

spoiledpuppies wrote: »

In my opinion based on what I've learned low carb isn't a good idea. You'll get an initial loss because your body will use its stored glycogen for energy, and that holds a lot of water. But long-term, your body needs carbs for fuel. It might seem logical that if it doesn't have carbs, it will turn to fat stores, but your body can't convert fat directly into energy--it actually needs carbs to start the process of converting fat to energy. Your body CAN, however, convert protein to energy. So guess where it will get its energy if it doesn't have carbs to use directly or to initiate the fat burning? Protein--which it will pull from your muscles.

Only a total calorie deficit will result in weight loss--regardless of the macro balance. Keep your macros at recommended levels for general population--maybe skewing a little more heavily on protein--and stay in a deficit, and you'll lose.

Just one perspective--I don't mean to start a debate.

I am not a low carb advocate at all, but this is not accurate information. Ketogenic diets are known to be very muscle(protein) sparing diets.

ketorach

spoiledpuppies wrote: »

In my opinion based on what I've learned low carb isn't a good idea. You'll get an initial loss because your body will use its stored glycogen for energy, and that holds a lot of water. But long-term, your body needs carbs for fuel. It might seem logical that if it doesn't have carbs, it will turn to fat stores, but your body can't convert fat directly into energy--it actually needs carbs to start the process of converting fat to energy. Your body CAN, however, convert protein to energy. So guess where it will get its energy if it doesn't have carbs to use directly or to initiate the fat burning? Protein--which it will pull from your muscles.

This is mostly false.

Long-term, your body absolutely doesn't need carbs, if you are taking in sufficient calories from protein and fats.

Only a total calorie deficit will result in weight loss--regardless of the macro balance.

This, however, is fact. You cannot eat whatever you want and lose weight as long as you are keeping carbs low.

Given your history of eating disorder and how you have a hard time eating enough calories while tracking/counting, a low-carb diet might not be a good fit for you. It's super important to make sure you're taking in enough calories from protein and fats.

tennisdude2004

spoiledpuppies wrote: »

In my opinion based on what I've learned low carb isn't a good idea. You'll get an initial loss because your body will use its stored glycogen for energy, and that holds a lot of water. But long-term, your body needs carbs for fuel. It might seem logical that if it doesn't have carbs, it will turn to fat stores, but your body can't convert fat directly into energy--it actually needs carbs to start the process of converting fat to energy. Your body CAN, however, convert protein to energy. So guess where it will get its energy if it doesn't have carbs to use directly or to initiate the fat burning? Protein--which it will pull from your muscles.

Only a total calorie deficit will result in weight loss--regardless of the macro balance. Keep your macros at recommended levels for general population--maybe skewing a little more heavily on protein--and stay in a deficit, and you'll lose.

Just one perspective--I don't mean to start a debate.

Just no!!!

FisherGT

I have talked to my doctor about dieting, the absolute lowest weight i can have is 122 pounds, I am 5'8" Low sugar diets are ideal for my body because my enamel is messed up as hell. I just have trouble doing any kind of diet without making it extreme, the alchoholic example is pretty accurate, I am going to try my best.

charlesmauch

spoiledpuppies wrote: »

In my opinion based on what I've learned low carb isn't a good idea. You'll get an initial loss because your body will use its stored glycogen for energy, and that holds a lot of water. But long-term, your body needs carbs for fuel. It might seem logical that if it doesn't have carbs, it will turn to fat stores, but your body can't convert fat directly into energy--it actually needs carbs to start the process of converting fat to energy. Your body CAN, however, convert protein to energy. So guess where it will get its energy if it doesn't have carbs to use directly or to initiate the fat burning? Protein--which it will pull from your muscles.

Only a total calorie deficit will result in weight loss--regardless of the macro balance. Keep your macros at recommended levels for general population--maybe skewing a little more heavily on protein--and stay in a deficit, and you'll lose.

Just one perspective--I don't mean to start a debate.

My understanding of how nutrition worked in regards to fat/carbs/protein (loss) is a bit different. I'm still learning this stuff, so if I'm wrong, someone correct me! As I understand it...

When you eat a meal with carbohydrates, blood glucose (usable energy) rises and your pancreas starts pumping out insulin into your blood stream. As this "energy" rich blood enters your liver, the glucose and insulin combine and are stored as glycogen (stored energy) in both the liver and in your muscles. If your glycogen stores are already full, those carbs are further converted into triglycerides and stored as in fat cells. If the glycogen stores are "empty" the insulin spike helps to deliver glycogen, amino acids, etc to the "damaged" tissue and helps to kickstart the whole recovery process. Hence the idea that you should eat simple carbs just after working out for the insulin spike to help assist in recovery. Also eating carbs first thing in the morning is a good idea as it restores your glycogen and glucose levels after coming out of a "fast".

When your insulin levels are low (low carb diet, fasting, waking up, etc), you are typically using internal stores of complex carbohydrates, fats, and protein to fuel yourself. In brief, a number of organs like your pancreas, pituitary gland, adrenal gland, and thyroid start kicking out hormones which generate the opposite signals that insulin does.

So while your in a carb/energy deprived state, the following happens:

1. Glycogen is broken down into glucose again, and is used for fuel. (glycogenolysis)
2. Next fats are broken down into glycogen and fatty acids (lipolsys)
3. The glycogen derived from fats in lipolsys is further broken down into glucose. Also some of those fatty acids can be broken down directly for use as an alternate energy source too.
5. And finally when your energy level (glucose & glycogen) get really low, cortisol is released. Cortisol is a stress hormone and it's used to drive gluconeogensis. In gluconeogensis coritsol eats up the muscle tissue for protein and converts it into glucose.

As far as for what macros get used in fat storage. When in a caloric surplus, fats are easily stored first as fat droplets into the fat cells. Then triglycerides from carbs are stored. And 99.9% of the time excess protein is simply passed out of your system without being converted into anything. However an excess of protein in your system will eventually push your calorie numbers up and give fats and carbs a better chance at being stored as fat. So as long as your in a overall caloric deficit, a high protein/fat diet is just fine. It's when you tip over into a surplus that all that extra fat and carbs in your diet can be detrimental.

Anyone know if I misinterpreted the process?

GaleHawkins

spoiledpuppies wrote: »

In my opinion based on what I've learned low carb isn't a good idea. You'll get an initial loss because your body will use its stored glycogen for energy, and that holds a lot of water. But long-term, your body needs carbs for fuel. It might seem logical that if it doesn't have carbs, it will turn to fat stores, but your body can't convert fat directly into energy--it actually needs carbs to start the process of converting fat to energy. Your body CAN, however, convert protein to energy. So guess where it will get its energy if it doesn't have carbs to use directly or to initiate the fat burning? Protein--which it will pull from your muscles.

Only a total calorie deficit will result in weight loss--regardless of the macro balance. Keep your macros at recommended levels for general population--maybe skewing a little more heavily on protein--and stay in a deficit, and you'll lose.

Just one perspective--I don't mean to start a debate.

Carbs are a cheap source for calories but long term or short term carbs are not a required food source medically speaking. Now our sweet tooth will not agree with that medical fact.

jrose1982

If you're a recovering anorexic, I beg you to take your questions to a dietitian. This is because most people on MFP haven't got a clue, we're not anorexic.

If you want to understand the basics of low-carb eating, read a book by Atkins or Gary Taubes. These guys describe the endocrinology in simple terms, and do a better job of it than strangers on the internet. While most of us do a lot of research in to diet matters, I suspect most of us really only understand it within the context of our own lives.

If you have a hard time eating enough, then going low-carb will make that harder. The biggest affect of low-carb eating is a reduction in appetite.

I guess the only real recommendation I can make for you is to not go too low. People who are trying to lose weight often go as low as 20 grams per day. I've read some articles that suggest most people (who are not competitive athletes) should eat less than about 150 g per day to maintain. If you're trying to gain or maintain your weight, then maybe a carb limit of 150 g/day might be appropriate for you. And match your carbs with fat. If you eat bread, put butter on it. Add oil or animal fat to your vegetables. That sort of thing.

Good luck!

spoiledpuppies

Okay, so people seem to disagree with me, which is fine; but I've included some passages below. Again, I'm not looking to contradict anyone. Everyone uses a different approach, and we achieve success via a million different paths. There are valid arguments, reams of research, and much anecdotal support for every approach. I kind of think that success is about choosing the science and personal philosophy that you can get behind and commit to it.

From Kinesiology for Dummies, "Why no carbs means muscle loss"...
Glucose is essential to burn fat. Fat and glucose both into the Krebs cycle (that big wheel of H+ producers explained in the section "The Krebs cycle: The body's hydrogen producer) at the same point, as acetyl CoA. However, glucose also contributes to others parts of the cycle. Without glucose, that big wheel won't keep on turning. Without glucose, fat continues to accumulate in the form of acetyl CoA but can't get through the Krebs cycle. The body responds by letting the liver convert the acetyl CoA to an acid called a ketone. Ketones slow the metabolic rate, reduce appetite, and build up levels of acid in the blood (and your body does not like acid). Left unchecked, ketosis can lead a person with diabetes into a coma. In healthy people, restricting carbs (as you do in a low-carb diet) also brings on ketosis. However, instead of just messing with their fat metabolism, they also start losing muscle mass. Here's why: Protein can be used for ATP production within the Krebs cycle, <i>and</i> the liver can turn protein into glucose! If you deprive your body of glucose, it responds by depriving you of your muscle mass, a situation that slows the metabolic rate even more and makes it hard to lose body fat. So eat your carbs!

From Nutrition Insel, Paul, Don Ross, Kimberley McMahon, Melissa Bernstein, "Sparing Body Protein"...
In the absence of carbohydrate, both proteins and fats can be used for energy. Although most cells can break down fat for energy, brain cells and developing red blood cells require a constant supply of glucose. (After an extended period of starvation, the brain adapts and is able to use ketones from fat breakdown for part of its energy needs.) If glycogen stores are depleted and glucose is not provided in the diet, the body must make its own glucose from protein to maintain blood levels and supply glucose to the brain. Adequate consumption of dietary carbohydrate spares body proteins from being broken down and used to make glucose.

From Nutrition Insel, Paul, Don Ross, Kimberley McMahon, Melissa Bernstein, "Preventing Ketosis"...
Even when fat provides the fuel for cells, cells require a small amount of carbohydrate to completely break down fat to release energy. When no carbohydrate is available, the liver cannot break down fat completely. Instead, it produces small compounds called ketone bodies. Most cells can use ketone bodies for energy. When ketone bodies are produced more quickly than the body can use them, ketone levels build up in the blood and can cause a condition known as ketosis. People vulnerable to ketosis include those who consume only small amounts of carbohydrate or who cannot metabolize blood glucose normally. Ketosis is most commonly caused by very low carbohydrate diets, starvation, uncontrolled diabetes mellitus, and chronic alcoholism. Ketosis also can develop when fluid intake is too low to allow the kidneys to excrete excess ketone bodies. As the concentration of ketone bodies increases, the blood becomes too acidic. The body loses water as it excretes excess ketones in urine, and dehydration is a common consequence of ketosis. To prevent ketosis, the body needs a minimum of 50 to 100 grams of carbohydrate daily."

From NASM Essentials of Personal Fitness Training, "Carbohydrate-Intake Recommendations"...
The amount of carbohydrate in the diet can affect performance. High carbohydrate diets increase the use of glycogen as fuel, whereas a high-fat diet increases the use of fat as fuel. However, a high-fat diet results in lower glycogen synthesis. This is of particular concern if the individual is consuming a reduced-energy diet. For the endurance athlete, a carbohydrate-rich diet will build glycogen stores and aid in performance and recovery. Although some studies show an increase in performance associated with the consumption of a high-fat diet, these improvements are seen in exercise performed at a relatively low intensity (less than 70% of VO2 max). As the intensity of exercise increases, performance of high-intensity exercise will ultimately be impaired.

jrose1982

Is it really necessary to debate this here? There are plenty of other threads where it's been debated to the count of hundreds of responses. Do we really need another one?

RodaRose

mollymarionet wrote: »

So I have trouble going low carb without also going low calorie. Is it really true I can lose weight eating more so long as i keep my carbs down? I am trying to get down to 127, I'm at 136 right now. I am a recovering anorexic(recovery forever i suppose). I really have a hard time eating a lot of calories when I'm counting.

Can anyone give me some basics on low carb?

If you cut carbs you need to increase protein or fat.

GaleHawkins

RodaRose wrote: »

mollymarionet wrote: »

So I have trouble going low carb without also going low calorie. Is it really true I can lose weight eating more so long as i keep my carbs down? I am trying to get down to 127, I'm at 136 right now. I am a recovering anorexic(recovery forever i suppose). I really have a hard time eating a lot of calories when I'm counting.

Can anyone give me some basics on low carb?

If you cut carbs you need to increase protein or fat.

Molly the advice of RodaRose is critical. The last thing I bet the doctor wants you to do is to under eat at this point in time.

I wrote a long post and had computer issues today. Nutritional Ketosis is a wonder thing in my case but it took me a month to break my carb addiction and adapt to burning ketones vs mainly glucose. Personally unless you have other health issues that carbs are harming I do not think eating Keto may be best in your case. With that being said no other person on the web can with validity give dieting advice to another.

By the way there are some posting about nutritional ketosis that are clueless. It works well for some of us but we had other health issues and/or more than a few pounds to loss that made cutting out the carbs a worthwhile thing.

Stick with your doctor on anything you do.

cindytw

So I guess the ultimate question here is WHY do you even want to lose this weight? I am 5'5" approx. and my goal is 150# because it will be a toned and strong 150#! Why cant you focus on being lean and strong versus a number? I have never had anorexia, but maybe shifting the focus would also make a healthier relationship with your body. I am sure others have suggested this but I have to say what I think. That's my personalty flaw I have to work on! Just my 2 cents and message me with any comments.

cindytw

herrspoons wrote: »

GaleHawkins wrote: »

spoiledpuppies wrote: »

In my opinion based on what I've learned low carb isn't a good idea. You'll get an initial loss because your body will use its stored glycogen for energy, and that holds a lot of water. But long-term, your body needs carbs for fuel. It might seem logical that if it doesn't have carbs, it will turn to fat stores, but your body can't convert fat directly into energy--it actually needs carbs to start the process of converting fat to energy. Your body CAN, however, convert protein to energy. So guess where it will get its energy if it doesn't have carbs to use directly or to initiate the fat burning? Protein--which it will pull from your muscles.

Only a total calorie deficit will result in weight loss--regardless of the macro balance. Keep your macros at recommended levels for general population--maybe skewing a little more heavily on protein--and stay in a deficit, and you'll lose.

Just one perspective--I don't mean to start a debate.

Carbs are a cheap source for calories but long term or short term carbs are not a required food source medically speaking. Now our sweet tooth will not agree with that medical fact.

Incorrect. Carbs are not required by the body because glucose is produced from other sources by gluconeogenesis, however you won't find many credible medics who suggest you exclude them completely.

Don't confuse biological processes with medical recommendations.

UH YEAH he posted that they are not a required FOOD SOURCE!! RE-READ before you argue!!

cindytw

Nothing is broken here and IDK what you would call me I am a girl. I meant everything and nothing had been refuted really. You still have not given anything to refute GALE HAWKINS. Nor whatever I said, I am up for a "debate' anytime. but just repeating the same thing all over day after day...No

FisherGT

Thank you all for your advice. I have a complicated relationship with life really. I think low carb is really the way to go honestly, I have a family history of diabetes, stroke, among other things. All the research points to a diet rich in vegetables and fruits and less on the bready side.

GaleHawkins

mollymarionet wrote: »

Thank you all for your advice. I have a complicated relationship with life really. I think low carb is really the way to go honestly, I have a family history of diabetes, stroke, among other things. All the research points to a diet rich in vegetables and fruits and less on the bready side.

Molly while at first going truly low carb can be hard and you will hear a lot of false info from strangers and perhaps family.

Keep reading on the subject and talking with your doctor. It may not work out for me but at this point in time for me nutritional ketosis seems to be working for me. From reading it seems to be my best protection from developing diabetes, stroke, heart attack and Alzheimer's but my research is on going. I know it is the best diet I have been on to get my arthritis pain managed without an Rx.

Have a great 2015.

Unknown

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Charlottesometimes23

jrose1982 wrote: »

If you're a recovering anorexic, I beg you to take your questions to a dietitian. This is because most people on MFP haven't got a clue, we're not anorexic.

Good luck!

I agree with this and if possible choose a dietitian who specialises in eating disorders. Your weight is fine for your height, but if you really want to lose a few pounds, it would be better doing it under the care of a professional who can personalise an approach for you.